cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lysander on January 17, 2012, 12:56:13 pm

Title: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Lysander on January 17, 2012, 12:56:13 pm
Why?
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Elmokki on January 17, 2012, 01:42:40 pm
Because it made defence on most maps utterly retarded camp of the flag instead of defending walls?

It's just too much if potentially every attacker spawns with ladders every single time. Most maps aren't designed for that.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: De_Gothia on January 17, 2012, 01:45:43 pm
Hello.
Enter the high repair costs ladders.
And end the problem
Thanks for your attention
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Lysander on January 17, 2012, 01:48:05 pm
Hello.
Enter the high repair costs ladders.
And end the problem
Thanks for your attention

THIS!
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Mala on January 17, 2012, 02:48:47 pm
Because it made defence on most maps utterly retarded camp of the flag instead of defending walls?

It's just too much if potentially every attacker spawns with ladders every single time. Most maps aren't designed for that.
Thats rubbish, walls were important before, too.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: KaffeKalle on January 17, 2012, 03:07:38 pm
Most maps ended with some squad of pro-tards taking some backroute with ladders and winning before defenders could even realise they were. I think removal of ladders was good.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Lysander on January 17, 2012, 03:47:47 pm
Hello.
Enter the high repair costs ladders.
And end the problem
Thanks for your attention

THIS!
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Okkam on January 17, 2012, 03:54:10 pm
TBH it can work better with:

Restrict quantity of ladders for attacker (2-3) This way you cant make your «Personal Highway»
Ban ladders for defenders side (too much smart dickheads block ways\ladders of attackers)
High repair cost for ladders (500-2500 gold) So, you'll think twice before stupid ladder planting.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Elmetiacos on January 17, 2012, 04:01:37 pm
Unless things can be tweaked in a way they couldn't earlier, restricted quantity won't work: as happened on Strategus, it will simply lead to the defenders spamming ladders on start to use up the allocation before the attackers can place any in a useful position.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Mala on January 17, 2012, 09:37:20 pm
I think this does not work anymore since a while.
Both teams have their own limit of construction material.


For me it is quite restrictive/boring without ladders.
Back then you could sneak in to open a gate, bypass an heavy defended position, cause some confusion behind their lines or chase achrers away from their camping spots.

Now you can choose between from two to four ways which are all defended.
There are no experiments to find new way, no surprises and less challenges.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: SixThumbs on January 17, 2012, 09:39:07 pm
I think they should've been left in for siege only because I enjoyed destroying them as a defender.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Lysander on January 17, 2012, 10:46:58 pm
I think if there would be high repair costs, I would not use them, cause I dont want to spend that much money. I would hope that there is a rich guy out there who can pay the upkeep..
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Angantyr on January 17, 2012, 10:51:00 pm
I think this does not work anymore since a while.
Both teams have their own limit of construction material.


For me it is quite restrictive/boring without ladders.
Back then you could sneak in to open a gate, bypass an heavy defended position, cause some confusion behind their lines or chase achrers away from their camping spots.

Now you can choose between from two to four ways which are all defended.
There are no experiments to find new way, no surprises and less challenges.
This.

A more dynamic game aside, ladders and construction sites also gave siege some atmosphere of construction-deconstruction reminiscent of historical sieges. Now with really high upkeep on CS and no ladders it feels empty like I'm back in Native.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: _Tak_ on January 17, 2012, 11:18:01 pm
CS cost hell a lot of money. So i will use my plate charger as a Construction site .
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on January 17, 2012, 11:38:31 pm
Ladders on siege maps were annoying.


Both teams have their own limit of construction material.
I have no idea about the limits, all i could see is CS spam on doorways and flag + endless ladder-bridges to flag, from attackers spawn.]

[/i]For me it is quite restrictive/boring without ladders.
You are a good player, you fight fair, dont whine and dont use any "cheap tricks" - so i respect you personal view on this matter.

Now you can choose between from two to four ways which are all defended.
That is the whole point in siege map? Take walls, use gatehouse to open gates, break doors?

There are no experiments to find new way
  = place a ladder where it can not be reached by defenders and start jumping on flag. This was countered by spamming CS on flag, and camping it from the first seconds of a new round. That is not fun at all. Not for me at least.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: _Tak_ on January 18, 2012, 12:12:23 am
I think the game mod it is fine as it is . I am loving being the only horseman on siege. THis is epic, thanks Dev for disable ladders.

I get like 32 kills with 25 deaths in siege as a horseman :D

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Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Veith on January 18, 2012, 12:55:26 am
Remove the implemented standard ladders, which are sadly everytime at the same location and limit 'equipment' ladders to a 'well-thought-balanced' ;) number. So players must think about where to place the few ladders, but must not use ladders thousand times in the absolutely same way. The never changeable siege equipment is still a siege tower.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Angantyr on January 18, 2012, 02:05:37 am
(click to show/hide)
What on Earth does any of that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Lysander on January 18, 2012, 08:58:37 am
= place a ladder where it can not be reached by defenders and start jumping on flag. This was countered by spamming CS on flag, and camping it from the first seconds of a new round. That is not fun at all. Not for me at least.

Thats true. From the beginning of a round you heard as defender "camp flag".

But I missing something since ladders are removed.

Remove the implemented standard ladders, which are sadly everytime at the same location and limit 'equipment' ladders to a 'well-thought-balanced' ;) number. So players must think about where to place the few ladders, but must not use ladders thousand times in the absolutely same way. The never changeable siege equipment is still a siege tower.

I think this could be a good solution.



What on Earth does any of that have to do with anything?

I have no idea.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Mala on January 18, 2012, 02:55:59 pm
Ladders on siege maps were annoying.

*chunter* stupid fail quotes.

Quote
Both teams have their own limit of construction material.
I have no idea about the limits, all i could see is CS spam on doorways and flag + endless ladder-bridges to flag, from attackers spawn.
I think there are six construction sites for each team, but i have no clue about the ladders.

Quote
Now you can choose between from two to four ways which are all defended.
That is the whole point in siege map? Take walls, use gatehouse to open gates, break doors?


The main goal is to crush their pitiful self-est... erm to take the or to protect the flag.
But with ladders you can do this on bit more creative way.
Like i have said as attacker to sneak in, to open blocked paths and so on.
As defender you had to watch the attacks first before you could set up the defences, you could sally out to destroy the ladders or intercep ladder bridges wih own ladders.

Quote
There are no experiments to find new way
= place a ladder where it can not be reached by defenders and start jumping on flag. This was countered by spamming CS on flag, and camping it from the first seconds of a new round. That is not fun at all. Not for me at least.


Flag camping does/ did not work so well.
Then you invite the enemy archers to camp your higher grounds while the foottroops can gather and rush in larger groups.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Tot. on January 18, 2012, 03:22:13 pm
The point is that ladders generally work well and improve gameplay, but only when your objective is to actually capture the castle, meaning take all spawn flags, Strategus. Not just lower some symbolic flag in the courtyard and win the round with a handful of men even though the actual castle is swarming with defenders and nothing is captured in fact.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Mala on January 18, 2012, 03:57:09 pm
Simple game mechanic.
Title: Re: Why you removed ladders from siege??
Post by: Hirlok on January 18, 2012, 09:31:56 pm
Bring back ladders (adds more variety and encourages tactical approaches), BUT strictly limit them to 3 ladder placements per round.
When those are placed cleverly, they add fun, when they are destroyed, they are gone. Period.
Anything else leads to the freaking ladder spam that we had before...

Just my 2c

P.S.: no, high upkeep is not a solution to limit ladders, we have seen the ladder and CS spam of certain clans before, and we prefer not to know how they gained their riches... :)