cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Osiris on January 16, 2012, 12:08:17 am

Title: Sacrifice
Post by: Osiris on January 16, 2012, 12:08:17 am
looks pretty sweet considering i have 2 gen 2 alts. but my main is lvl 27 and im just wondering why it needs to be lvl 5 or less? Im not sure i understand the reasoning.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Harald on January 16, 2012, 12:14:42 am
We want to avoid having players with high level main chars (31+) using their alternates to grind heirlooms. Why level 5 was chosen i don't know, i just followed orders  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: SquishMitten on January 16, 2012, 12:16:17 am
We want to avoid having players with high level main chars (31+) using their alternates to grind heirlooms. Why level 5 was chosen i don't know, i just followed orders  :mrgreen:
so make the level cap 31?
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Osiris on January 16, 2012, 12:16:24 am
fair enough :( gotta wait to retire. why not make it 30 or 25 or something :P
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Tzar on January 16, 2012, 12:16:42 am
Ehh.. hmn ok ohh well guess my alt will rot away....

But yeah the lvl cap should be lvl 31... weird...  :?
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Joker86 on January 16, 2012, 12:19:27 am
If you need heirlooms your main is much more suitable for it, as he gets more XP for it. Once you have all your heirlooms you can start going for lvl 34.

Indeed this restriction helps perhaps, but I don't know if so many players would actually behave this way. Playing the other chars just for the sake of farming an item that is supposed for your main who is supposed to be the character that grants you the most fun seems somewhat weird to me  :?
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: SquishMitten on January 16, 2012, 12:21:29 am
plus if you have a high lvl main and u want heirlooms u just grind money on your main and buy them
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Tzar on January 16, 2012, 12:27:50 am
If you need heirlooms your main is much more suitable for it, as he gets more XP for it. Once you have all your heirlooms you can start going for lvl 34.

Indeed this restriction helps perhaps, but I don't know if so many players would actually behave this way. Playing the other chars just for the sake of farming an item that is supposed for your main who is supposed to be the character that grants you the most fun seems somewhat weird to me  :?

Kesh
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Harald on January 16, 2012, 12:28:54 am
Once you have all your heirlooms you can start going for lvl 34.
I think that is exactly the situation we wanted to avoid. When for whatever reason you want a different heirloom you could use an alternate to grind it for your main. Why level 5 was chosen i don't know, it shouldn't make a difference  to allow up to say level 30. But maybe i'm overlooking something.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Grumbs on January 16, 2012, 12:30:48 am
What would be the problem with grinding stuff on an alt for your main? Why would it matter?
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Meow on January 16, 2012, 12:36:34 am
Just the way we want it to be.
Else we would give access to everything you own to all chars on your account.
Changing from 5 to 30 seems reasonable though.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: chadz on January 16, 2012, 12:38:28 am
Give it some time, we will see how this works out and then change things accordingly.

Not saying it will change, but not saying it won't either :P
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: slothscott on January 16, 2012, 12:45:01 am
I wish now I hadn't stf'd my alts  :?
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Grumbs on January 16, 2012, 12:49:12 am
Give it some time, we will see how this works out and then change things accordingly.

Not saying it will change, but not saying it won't either :P

Cool. It doesn't really affect me since I only play my main. But if I wanted a break sometime it would be nice to be able to contribute something to my main, even if its something very little. Maybe convert my gold to him at a negative ratio, 5/1 or something (give all my gold to him but only get 1/5 of it). Or maybe you would have to go to lvl 31 to sacrifice and can only give 1 item to your main at a time. Just some ideas
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Joker86 on January 16, 2012, 12:49:19 am
I wish now I hadn't stf'd my alts  :?

This  :?  :cry:
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on January 16, 2012, 12:49:34 am
HOT DICKTY FUCKING DAMN

market crash here we come!
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Tzar on January 16, 2012, 01:43:20 am
Just the way we want it to be.
Else we would give access to everything you own to all chars on your account.
Changing from 5 to 31 seems reasonable though.

Fixed that for you-
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Meow on January 16, 2012, 03:22:42 am
Fixed that for you-
Why 31?
One point is to not have people who grind beyond 31 to benefit from this, why would we enable it for 31?
You retire there or grind on.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Turkhammer on January 16, 2012, 06:00:32 pm

Else we would give access to everything you own to all chars on your account.


This.  What is wrong with that idea?  All my characters are like my vassals aren't they?  Maybe I should have access to all their stuff.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Phazey on January 16, 2012, 06:10:07 pm
It would make it too attractive to level your main to level 34+, which breaks game balance a bit.

I would use the sacrifice feature like this: once my 2h alt has a nice heirloomed 2h and i decide to go 2h with my main, i could retire my main, scarifice my 2h alt to absorb / transfer the heirloomed 2h to my main and make a 2h build on my main.

If you could just transfer items between alts and mains, there would be no reason to retire your main character anymore.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Tzar on January 16, 2012, 06:24:20 pm
Why 31?
One point is to not have people who grind beyond 31 to benefit from this, why would we enable it for 31?
You retire there or grind on.

Well your wouldnt be go beyond 31 if you wanted the looms you would be forced to stop lvling at 31 to gain the alt´s items..

Plus i would retire if it was 31 since i see no point in looming 2 +1 items..

Setting it to 31 makes sense..your only godlike high lvl if u reach for lvl 33 or 34

Also what would be the point in using your alt to grind items with? your main all rdy lvl up faster plus dont you kill/sacrifice your alt to gain the loomed items in the first place??

So let me get this straight your afraid people will mass grind items with a gen 1 alt that have no xp bonus  :?: that would take ages lmao but.. w/e
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Riddaren on January 16, 2012, 08:31:05 pm
You should be able to sacrifice one alt to another. Without any restrictions. That would be nice.
I have many alts but only one is gen 2. I wish I could make 1 or 2 stronger alts by sacrificing the rest.

There should not be any connection between alts and the main imo.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Burr1ck on January 17, 2012, 12:25:57 am
You should be able to sacrifice one alt to another. Without any restrictions. That would be nice.
I have many alts but only one is gen 2. I wish I could make 1 or 2 stronger alts by sacrificing the rest.

There should not be any connection between alts and the main imo.

+1.

I worked my ass off to get my main to level 32 and I want to stay high level, I think it's stupid to put a level restriction. Sacrificing an alt for heirlooms is enough.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Miwiw on January 17, 2012, 12:40:45 am
It is a nice idea. I wouldnt set a max level either.

Quote
So let me get this straight your afraid people will mass grind items with a gen 1 alt that have no xp bonus  :?: that would take ages lmao but.. w/e
Yes, it takes more time. But let's say you would want your main stay a certain build, for example 2handed. Sure you could take another build the next gen but here comes the alt, play another build for fun on your alt and stick with your prefered build on the main, for Strategus for example.
You could still imporve armor then.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Kreczor on January 17, 2012, 07:21:44 am
+1.

I worked my ass off to get my main to level 32 and I want to stay high level, I think it's stupid to put a level restriction. Sacrificing an alt for heirlooms is enough.
31-32 isn't even a big grind. Talk to Kesh.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Glyph on January 17, 2012, 08:08:31 am
Give it some time, we will see how this works out and then change things accordingly.

Not saying it will change, but not saying it won't either :P
the neutral dev reply, why does this seem like a déja vu? hmmmm...  :P
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Kerrigan on January 17, 2012, 02:11:31 pm
So when you sacrifice, do you get the loompoint or do you have to loom something with the alt first and then sacrifice?
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Glyph on January 17, 2012, 07:28:33 pm
So when you sacrifice, do you get the loompoint or do you have to loom something with the alt first and then sacrifice?
you get the loomed items that the alt has, and your main has to be lvl 5 or lower(will probably be changed)
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: cerkosan on January 17, 2012, 10:22:15 pm
Nice option. Hope it will not be changed much.
Brings diversity in game and market.
After 1 year of playing having 5 characters, each different class, it is nice to have them consolidated. Shame that each char was looming only weapons  :oops:.
Greetings.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Miwiw on January 18, 2012, 01:25:07 pm
you get the loomed items that the alt has, and your main has to be lvl 5 or lower(will probably be changed)

Can I only transfer one loomed item? Saying I level to 31, retire, loom and sacrifice, then I can transfer 1 item. But lets say I level to 31, retire, loom, and then be gen 2 and level to 31 again and retire again, loom another item and then sacrifice. Can I transfer both items then? :o
Just asking because it would be easier to play a second character longer than 1 generation and dont sacrifice after every first gen (taking too much time).
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Harald on January 18, 2012, 01:33:37 pm
It transfers all heirloom items on that alternate character to your main and the alternate character is deleted.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Glyph on January 18, 2012, 01:33:40 pm
Can I only transfer one loomed item? Saying I level to 31, retire, loom and sacrifice, then I can transfer 1 item. But lets say I level to 31, retire, loom, and then be gen 2 and level to 31 again and retire again, loom another item and then sacrifice. Can I transfer both items then? :o
Just asking because it would be easier to play a second character longer than 1 generation and dont sacrifice after every first gen (taking too much time).
no, all of the loomed things your alt has, go to your main.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: IceManX on January 18, 2012, 03:08:11 pm
I dont understand this correctly?!   :?

I have 4 Chars and play all of them...
I dont retire anymore with my main, I did it just for one Masterwork weapon.

Now I just wanna play with all of my 4 chars to have fun and no more grinding.
When I ever will reach like lvl 33 with one of them I would be happy.
But for now I dont grind, I just play and lvls dont matter for me.

Grinding is for me from lvl 1-30/31 because I fucking hate it. Slow as shit, no dmg, cant wear stuff and so on. This is grinding for me.
After 30/31 I play just for fun...

Ok now,
what is this Sacrifice exaclty?
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Hippy on January 18, 2012, 03:21:14 pm
Read the forum
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Burr1ck on January 18, 2012, 06:50:48 pm
31-32 isn't even a big grind. Talk to Kesh.

My main is generation 1.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 18, 2012, 07:17:47 pm
+1.

I worked my ass off to get my main to level 32 and I want to stay high level, I think it's stupid to put a level restriction. Sacrificing an alt for heirlooms is enough.

I disagree.  If you make the decision to not retire at level 31, and to keep grinding levels so you get that extra 2 or 3 skills or attributes that's you choice.  But you still shouldn't be able to also get more looms for this char. 

i think the dev's have it perfect in this situation.  But they should move the level from 5 to 30.  Like Meow said, at level 31 you either retire or keep grinding.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: B3RS3RK on January 18, 2012, 07:33:53 pm
You know what would be rather logical to do if they dont want Non-retiring characters to get looms?

Dont make it level 4 maximum, make it level 30.

That way, People that grind farther than the retirement level won´t be able to sacrifice their alts, while everone else can.Problem solved.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Riddaren on January 18, 2012, 07:49:20 pm
Please make it possible to sacrifice to an alt character of your choice, not just the main character.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Kastu on January 18, 2012, 08:13:19 pm
Does the alt character's money transfer as well? If not, why?
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Osiris on January 18, 2012, 08:41:27 pm
because alts dont pay upkeep untill lvl 25
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Murchad on January 18, 2012, 10:32:57 pm
I disagree.  If you make the decision to not retire at level 31, and to keep grinding levels so you get that extra 2 or 3 skills or attributes that's you choice.  But you still shouldn't be able to also get more looms for this char. 

i think the dev's have it perfect in this situation.  But they should move the level from 5 to 30.  Like Meow said, at level 31 you either retire or keep grinding.

You have the right to disagree but you offer no reason for disagreeing.
Here are the reasons I think heirlooming with alt should be allowed.
1. You still have to put the same or more of time to retire as with main (main usually higher gen so would be quicker getting looms on it)
2. Changes to items/upkeep. The devs are constantly making balance changes (which they are doing a great job on) so looms you did before you stopped retiring get nerfed or changed dramaticly. For a personal example I heirloomed the items I wanted before I stopped retiring but updates to upkeep costs make it so I can't afford that gear anymore. I can grind in cheap gear (not leaching) for hours and hours to afford buying a loom. (which I have done)
or they could allow me to play on an alt using normal gear and after retiring transfer to main so I can afford heirloomed normal gear on main. I think allowing heirloom (not gold) transfer is less disruptive to gameplay.
3. People will get the items anyway so we need to balance for the future not the immediate.
All you are doing by disallowing heirlooming for people with over 31 mains is making it harder on the people who are really keeping the mod vibrant. I will eventually get the heirloomed items i want, would you rather i got them by playing with my level 34 char slowly getting gold or leveling up another char which is what you say will keep the game balanced. (not leveling my main to 35)

Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 19, 2012, 12:44:26 am
You have the right to disagree but you offer no reason for disagreeing.
Here are the reasons I think heirlooming with alt should be allowed.
1. You still have to put the same or more of time to retire as with main (main usually higher gen so would be quicker getting looms on it)
2. Changes to items/upkeep. The devs are constantly making balance changes (which they are doing a great job on) so looms you did before you stopped retiring get nerfed or changed dramaticly. For a personal example I heirloomed the items I wanted before I stopped retiring but updates to upkeep costs make it so I can't afford that gear anymore. I can grind in cheap gear (not leaching) for hours and hours to afford buying a loom. (which I have done)
or they could allow me to play on an alt using normal gear and after retiring transfer to main so I can afford heirloomed normal gear on main. I think allowing heirloom (not gold) transfer is less disruptive to gameplay.
3. People will get the items anyway so we need to balance for the future not the immediate.
All you are doing by disallowing heirlooming for people with over 31 mains is making it harder on the people who are really keeping the mod vibrant. I will eventually get the heirloomed items i want, would you rather i got them by playing with my level 34 char slowly getting gold or leveling up another char which is what you say will keep the game balanced. (not leveling my main to 35)

The reason's are self explanatory.  If you make the decision to keep leveling beyond 31, you have clear advantages towards your stats.  One of the things that you trade off, is the ability to loom more items. 

At least now for people still trying to obtain looms they are able to do so with their alts.  I don't think it makes sense to allow people to get MORE looms on their main without retiring (other than grinding gold, which would take a hell of a lot longer to make 400-500k than to retire an alt). 

And to your question, I'd prefer they kept the old system, the looms are tied to the characters.  I don't think  you should be able to level a guy up to 34, and then keep retiring alts to make looms for your level 34 character.  I think that's too big of an advantage.  If you want to keep getting looms, keep grinding the gold, or keep retiring your char.  Seems like a good balance to me.

Otherwise you get into the balance issues.  People who have played the longest, and put in the most time are already going to be the best players (generally speaking, because they've put in the most time getting "good" at the game).  But then you throw in extra stats (if you're over level 31) and better equipment (looms), and now you take a player that by all means should be better than the rest of the field (if you had equal stats and equipment) and just made them even better.  That's one thing I never liked about games where you "level up" to unlock better items.  It becomes less focused on skill, and more focused on who has the best pixel crack.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: Murchad on January 19, 2012, 02:19:59 am
Ok
The reason's are self explanatory.  If you make the decision to keep leveling beyond 31, you have clear advantages towards your stats.  One of the things that you trade off, is the ability to loom more items. 

At least now for people still trying to obtain looms they are able to do so with their alts.  I don't think it makes sense to allow people to get MORE looms on their main without retiring (other than grinding gold, which would take a hell of a lot longer to make 400-500k than to retire an alt). 

And to your question, I'd prefer they kept the old system, the looms are tied to the characters.  I don't think  you should be able to level a guy up to 34, and then keep retiring alts to make looms for your level 34 character.  I think that's too big of an advantage.  If you want to keep getting looms, keep grinding the gold, or keep retiring your char.  Seems like a good balance to me.

Otherwise you get into the balance issues.  People who have played the longest, and put in the most time are already going to be the best players (generally speaking, because they've put in the most time getting "good" at the game).  But then you throw in extra stats (if you're over level 31) and better equipment (looms), and now you take a player that by all means should be better than the rest of the field (if you had equal stats and equipment) and just made them even better.  That's one thing I never liked about games where you "level up" to unlock better items.  It becomes less focused on skill, and more focused on who has the best pixel crack.
It is an unnecessary restriction. you can't level your main at the same time as level your alt to get heirloom points. 35 is still the level cap. I already have full loomed gear and some alternate loomed gear on my main. it's not like i can use more than one at a time to stack bonuses why not let me heirloom more items if I want? It won't make me any stronger but sometimes it is fun to change things up.
Once you have gotten to the higher levels with your main retiring is out of the question because all the time spent to get to higher level is wasted.
Your argument is based on the assumption that someone who levels up to 35 won't also have full loomed gear. It just makes it so the people who have leveled past 31 will never use their alts anymore and will never be any other type of char besides what their main is because they have to keep grinding gold if they want any more heirlooms on the main.
If they could be playing on their alt trying out different builds all the while still helping their main; not get stronger (because they already have loomed gear) but just different gear for variety.
Title: Re: Sacrifice
Post by: BootyBuster on January 19, 2012, 07:26:30 am
this only helps people who have many chars which have retired. Which is no where near the majority of players.

It should be able to be done at any point and it combines gold and loomed items to your main. Doesn't delete your alt.

You put all the time in anyway all your items are yours