cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 12, 2012, 12:53:19 am
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Title says it, nothing to argue about.
What people complain most about (as far as I know) is the damage people can deal with a bow, even with hornbows. Because of that the cry for archernerfs is quite big.
But it seems to me, that most people do not really ask themselves why archers (or some of them) do such high damage.
First of all, there are high lvl archers who can deal hell of damage, but they are quite rare compared to the big number of ranged.
Second thing is what I recognised after talking to lots of archers: Nowadays many archers go for 8-9 powerdraw and then use the hornbow.
Why that? Because the hornbow is very accurate, even with weaponmaster 6 or maybe 5 and with such high pd the dmg is really good, even against heavy armour when you use bodkins.
Try that with a longbow. Still possible, if you are a good archer, but alot harder than with hornbow.
So, 8-9 powerdraw is really really high damage. I don't know any numbers, but I got at least some xp :P with archery in crpg so I know it's much.
Give these guys with such high pd nonloomed bows and they will still do high dmg.
Solution?
Change something, either about powerdraw reducing accuracy or reduce the accuracy of hornbow and rusbow.
No, this is not a thread to lobby for longbow or something, although it's my favourite bow. I'm happy when it's not used by everyone on the server ^^
And now stick out of this with your stupid "who is better? range vs melee" discussions or whatever :rolleyes:
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Nerf archers.
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As tears and some other people said, there's also the fact that archers benefit the most from weapons upgrade due to the damage on bows and bolts/arrows. On my retire page, Bolts go from 0->5 pierce, Hunting Crossbow goes from 37->45, I don't know if bows are effected by the same amount, but melee typically gets +3 damage [I think +2 for certain stabs]. Then again, if that's only for xbows, it's probably because they have no stat increasers, whereas bows get +14-56% [I think 14% is the lowest] and melee get +0->112% [with 42 strength].
IDK though, sometimes their accuracy pisses me off a shitload more
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Bodkins only get 0->2 pierce.
Don't know anything about crossbows and bolts, never really played it.
But still, in my opinion all the high powerdraw pewpew hornbow users are worse than the loomed dmg
Btw, bows also get +3 damage like melee and arrows get +2 dmg. So not as much as crossbows receive
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I'm not receiving the message too well. You want a change, but not a nerf, to bows and their skills?
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I want a nerf to a certain kind of bows, because you can use them with high powerdraw and only little weaponmaster.
Horbow and in my opinion rusbow, too, should be less accurate so people have to spend 1-2 points more in weaponmaster instead of going for 8-9 powerdraw. No wonder people die so quickly on the servers.
+ you can use the really strong mace with a hornbow
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Just buff IF and we are fine :)
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That wouldn't really help people without IF and the complaints wouldn't stop
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How about this:
First, reduce accuracy of low tier bows by quite a bit, increase accuracy of longbow and slightly increase accuracy of rus bow, but increase draw time of all bows. Essentially the goal would be to make the longbow the best bow, and to make it about as accurate as the horn bow is now, but it would be slow so that you don't get people machine gunning with it. EDIT: Just something I forgot to mention, change the accuracy "sweet spot" to be later (preferably differing for each bow, such that maximum accuracy occurs a fraction of a second after fulling drawing the bow)
Second, make all bows 2 slot.
Third, make quivers for arrows and bolts be 2 slot but give them 50-100% more ammunition. This is for 2 reasons, first it means archers will have to use the 0 slot weapons, even for low tier bows. The primary reason for this is that as bows stand now an archer with a low tier bow can, if they want to sacrifice a bit of ammo, equip themselves with a fairly decent 1 slot weapon. This evens the melee field out for archers, additionally it means that if someone wants to use a 1 shot kill machine like the arbalest, they need to sacrifice nearly all melee ability. It would make high tier crossbows be for dedicated xbow only, and make it so that they can't whip out a 1 slot weapon and start dominating in melee. If an xbow wants to be able to melee, they should use one of the lower tier xbows.
Finally, make bows and xbows deal reduced damage under a certain range, which reduces further the closer the target gets. For example, 10 meters would be the shortest distance where they get 100% damage, then for every meter closer reduce damage by 10-20%. It's unrealistic, certainly, but could help reduce one of the major complaints about these weapons: shotgunning. No matter how good a player is at dodging, at very close range it's practically impossible to reliably dodge bolts and arrows, and at these ranges the archer/xbow should have to pull out their melee, or run.
The goal of this would be to make archers have to be a bit more careful with their shots, without really nerfing the good archers, and to make high tier xbows have to sacrifice their melee ability.
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I absolutely love how in these threads no one acknowledges that an archer on foot pays about as much as medium cav with heavy armor. Anywho, nerf archery so that cav can be completely unstoppable.
I love this trend!
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I'd keep archers but would remove bows.
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increase price of ladders substantially for great win
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How about this:
First, reduce accuracy of low tier bows by quite a bit, increase accuracy of longbow and slightly increase accuracy of rus bow, but increase draw time of all bows. Essentially the goal would be to make the longbow the best bow, and to make it about as accurate as the horn bow is now, but it would be slow so that you don't get people machine gunning with it. EDIT: Just something I forgot to mention, change the accuracy "sweet spot" to be later (preferably differing for each bow, such that maximum accuracy occurs a fraction of a second after fulling drawing the bow)
Second, make all bows 2 slot.
Third, make quivers for arrows and bolts be 2 slot but give them 50-100% more ammunition. This is for 2 reasons, first it means archers will have to use the 0 slot weapons, even for low tier bows. The primary reason for this is that as bows stand now an archer with a low tier bow can, if they want to sacrifice a bit of ammo, equip themselves with a fairly decent 1 slot weapon. This evens the melee field out for archers, additionally it means that if someone wants to use a 1 shot kill machine like the arbalest, they need to sacrifice nearly all melee ability. It would make high tier crossbows be for dedicated xbow only, and make it so that they can't whip out a 1 slot weapon and start dominating in melee. If an xbow wants to be able to melee, they should use one of the lower tier xbows.
Finally, make bows and xbows deal reduced damage under a certain range, which reduces further the closer the target gets. For example, 10 meters would be the shortest distance where they get 100% damage, then for every meter closer reduce damage by 10-20%. It's unrealistic, certainly, but could help reduce one of the major complaints about these weapons: shotgunning. No matter how good a player is at dodging, at very close range it's practically impossible to reliably dodge bolts and arrows, and at these ranges the archer/xbow should have to pull out their melee, or run.
The goal of this would be to make archers have to be a bit more careful with their shots, without really nerfing the good archers, and to make high tier xbows have to sacrifice their melee ability.
Rusbow doesn't need an accuracy buff, it is already accurate enough.
You can't reduce speed for longbow, otherwise the old delay comes back, which means, that your reticule is at its smallest position when you are still drawing your bow. Thus you will never be able to shoot with the accuracy the bow actually has and the chance, that your arrows flys to another position and probably hits a teammate is quite high.
Making all bows 2 slot is a good idea in my opinion, but making quivers 2 slot as well isn't a good idea, because it would destroy every hybrid build people want to use. But with every bow 2 slot they would be forced to take either a 0 slot weapon to use 2 stacks of arrows or they would have to sacrifise alot of ammo for taking a good weapon.
--> Make bows 2slot, but keep quivers as they are
With your suggestion to reduce dmg on short range you would enforce all the runaway archers...not a good idea in my opinion^^
In my opinion it might be a good idea to increase the range a "push" works, means when someone is coming close to you, on a certain point you will stumble because of him and your char will lower the bow. That's how it is now. Maybe it would be possible to increase the range of that, so the char will lower the bow a bit earlier?
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I do not make money when I play with my favoured gear (rusbow 2x bodkins), upkeeps eats it all up, almost.
Im very slow , low ath, high powerdraw. currently at 9PD going for 10PD.
I dont care that im innacurate and slow,I miss alot, and cant aim/hit head even at pointblank reliably.
I just want it to hurt like hell when I do hit. That ppl go down in 2 hits. Like they should. Dont fsk around with PD, its the only thing that keeps archery "real" anymore.
The 2slot hardhitting and inaccurate bows plays diffrently than the small bows. Its more trying to get high probabiltyshots. moving so that enemies line up, releasing arrows in to clusters of enemies, dehorsing cav. I would hate to get a smallbow and pewpew guys 10 times for them to go down, better to miss 8 times and 2shotkill.
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Is it not possible to delay the accuracy sweet spot so as to make slower drawspeeds viable?
I still think at least upper tier xbows should not be hybridable, therefore how about keeping arrows and bolts as 1 slot but make the top 2 xbows 3 slot, mid range xbows 2 slot and keep the low tier xbows 1 slot.
Archers running at short range is a problem but I believe shotgunning is still a bigger one.
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That wouldn't really help people without IF and the complaints wouldn't stop
The point is, people without IF are either archers themselves, dedicated cav players or shielders of any kind, and for those it wont make much difference, but for pure infantry who spend a point or five or seven in IF it might make hell of a difference.
At least what i think, but hey, then we could get heavy IF unkillable archers aswell.
Edit: Also, i can see how the change planned for next patch with changed dmg to body and headshots will lead to: NERF ACCURACY, now i get HSed all the freaking time.
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The point is, people without IF are either archers themselves, dedicated cav players or shielders of any kind, and for those it wont make much difference, but for pure infantry who spend a point or five or seven in IF it might make hell of a difference.
At least what i think, but hey, then we could get heavy IF unkillable archers aswell.
Edit: Also, i can see how the change planned for next patch with changed dmg to body and headshots will lead to: NERF ACCURACY, now i get HSed all the freaking time.
Hhhm...true actually to your first point
and INDEED to your second point. Finally a nonarcher who recognises that :rolleyes: