cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Banok on February 23, 2011, 01:03:42 am

Title: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Banok on February 23, 2011, 01:03:42 am
Observation 1: Overhead swing on long spears is silly.
Observation 2: Blocking all stabs with 1 block direction is silly

Solution: Two stab animations, one blocked by up and other is down like normal. Like this
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Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Banok on February 23, 2011, 01:29:28 am
If you vote no can you please post why?

I can foresee a few gripes people would have but thread is for discussing those ;P
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Beauchamp on February 23, 2011, 01:41:36 am
i like this idea. it could really allow new class ingame (spear+shielder). still there are probably more important things to do right now, but in the future it wouldn't be bad to see this implemented.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: EponiCo on February 23, 2011, 01:42:31 am
Well, I said no, there are two concerns.
Visibility, if you can clearly see if it's high stab or low stab.
Coding, I think you can't make an overhead that works as a stab and not as a slash, without recoding the game.
If both can be done I'd be for it though.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Banok on February 23, 2011, 01:44:46 am
I presume thats where cmpx's magic tool comes in.

I dont think visibility would be an issue, it would only be a certain amount of time till we get used to it.

only problem I see is that polearm overhead stab might look too much like the new 2h stab animation which is kind of overhead too.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Beauchamp on February 23, 2011, 01:50:31 am
so in the worst case overhead would be cut damage, who cares...
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: IG_Saint on February 23, 2011, 02:00:49 am
I read somewhere that there are mods that already do this with new animations. So yes, implement please!
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Casimir on February 23, 2011, 02:39:17 am
Its already in vikingr. Its great. Really makes pole with shield a viable option!
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Banok on February 23, 2011, 02:51:32 am
Its already in vikingr. Its great. Really makes pole with shield a viable option!

Oh really I'll have to check it out.

Can't understand why they didn't do it in native. its an obviously solution to an obvious problem.

so in the worst case overhead would be cut damage, who cares...

yeah true that.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Vexus on February 23, 2011, 12:06:09 pm
This is needed imo very very few use a spear as means to fight most of the time they are used more just to stop cav which is not bad as is but a good spear man can be very helpful in a fight.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Joxer on February 23, 2011, 02:38:27 pm
In game overhead at least for a pike is bit silly. I'd have to see this one first before I could vote though. This could be even sillier with bad animation.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Everkistus on February 23, 2011, 02:56:29 pm
I support this with the power of 9000 exploding supernovas. It's stupid that spears have only one stab direction.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on February 23, 2011, 04:39:20 pm
This is great! I support this all the way. I would realy like to play a shield/spear that isnt useless in 1v1
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Korgoth on February 23, 2011, 04:41:22 pm
Vikingr Mod has an Overhead Stab with Spear and Shield!

Its still new and still needs polishing but it works good and it works by pressing x and it also needs a block down to block (I think) so thats the annoying thing. An overhead stab by moving the mouse up would be better and I would love it for my Korgoth_The_Hoplite Character
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Spawny on February 23, 2011, 04:46:46 pm
The Kengeki mod has an overhead spearattack which works like overhead attacking with any weapon. Just use the directional up movement of your mouse to do an overhead spearthrust.

Works a lot better than having to press "x" all the time I would think.

I fully support this idea. I think we will see a whole new class arise: 1h polearm/shield aka hoplite build.

Sounds like lot's of fun.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Polobow on February 23, 2011, 05:06:36 pm
I use a pole/shield all the time. I support this!
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Joelturuz on February 23, 2011, 05:11:39 pm
My avatar supports this.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: hotcobbler on February 23, 2011, 05:14:21 pm
Yes, this would be a great feature and would make spear/shield viable. It's more a support class anyway, most 1v1 against any other dueling class you would still lose, but at least this gives you a chance.

As to the pike comment before, I think this should be only for those using a 1h spear w/ shield. If anything you could give pikes/2h spears a "bracing" attack that would rear horses, and the normal attack would not.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: [ptx] on February 23, 2011, 05:15:26 pm
Joxer, is the guy in your avatar... licking a... dick?  :?
...

...
Anyhow, i am sort of skeptical making a melee support class (which works damn well when done right!) more powerful. Especially, if the overhead stab has a range similar to the normal stab... Pffft.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: hotcobbler on February 23, 2011, 05:23:32 pm
That might be a good compromise, make the overhand stab a shorter reach but maybe faster?

In general I see the spear stab animation being way too slow. You don't stab someone with a spear as if you're slowly reaching out to poke them, and then slowly draw it back. It's a quick thrust that darts out and allows you to get your shield back in place. I think a lot of the animations simply seem like we're fighting underwater. I know this is a bigger issue but I think adding some realism in terms of speed would be great for the mod. Overall, the weapons should be pretty leathal. You get stabbed, slashed, or smashed and you should pretty much be down for the count unless you're in heavy armor or block.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: WaltF4 on February 23, 2011, 06:08:07 pm
Solution: Two stab animations, one blocked by up and other is down like normal. Like this
While I would be willing to do unspeakable things for more spear and shield thrusts, what your image is showing is not just two different thrusts but two different grips, like normal grip and half-swording with the two handed swords. The following youtube video shows some basics for holding a spear. Pardon the crazy guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klOc9C-aPr4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klOc9C-aPr4)

See 1:41 for our current thrust and 1:45 for a higher thrust both made from an underhand grip. However, I do not know how visually distinguishable multiple thrusts from the same grip could be made.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: FICO on February 23, 2011, 06:40:42 pm
i think that animation of hand raising would be enough to determinate that spear is coming from above (you can raise it above head with "underarm"


and if it would be implemented, that would resurrect hoplite-style soldiers which become obsolete by "discover" of down-block. i use shield and spear (or fork) and often people say "lol do u kill anything with it?" "noob" and such things, but surprisingly i do. yes, my k/d is 1/3, but it doesn't matter to me. because i enjoy roleplaying that style
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Stormcrow on February 23, 2011, 06:52:29 pm
I tried the WWII China mod for warband which is terrible but at the same time had some cool animations with the bayonet which allowed you to overhead stab or do a low stab. Obvioisly it can be done plus overhead stabs look awesome and less gay than an overhead swing from a pike.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Rasputin on February 23, 2011, 07:40:12 pm
My first character was polearm+shield, but quickly noticed everyone could just downblock me if they were smart, so I was useless against anyone with a brain, wouldn't mind it being viable again.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Joxer on February 23, 2011, 07:51:40 pm
Joxer, is the guy in your avatar... licking a... dick?  :?

Almost got it right. It's a stick. I can understand how you could mix that up with a dick. Also it has ANTS all over it. ANTS ffs.

While I would be willing to do unspeakable things for more spear and shield thrusts, what your image is showing is not just two different thrusts but two different grips, like normal grip and half-swording with the two handed swords. The following youtube video shows some basics for holding a spear. Pardon the crazy guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klOc9C-aPr4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klOc9C-aPr4)

Holy fucking hell. Lindybeige rocks. He has more common sense in his pinky than you got in your family tree. Not crazy.  :twisted:

Vikingr Mod has an Overhead Stab with Spear and Shield!

Got any vids of that? I'm not touching that thing.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Nemeth on February 23, 2011, 08:41:06 pm
My first character was polearm+shield, but quickly noticed everyone could just downblock me if they were smart, so I was useless against anyone with a brain, wouldn't mind it being viable again.

Then you obviously did it wrong. Hoplite is viable, look at Pully on EU servers, using spear+shield, getting kills and being tremendous help in team fights. Yes, you won't be able to duel (unless you put your shield on your back ofc), but if that's the way you consider class to be usefull, then I pity you.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: [ptx] on February 23, 2011, 08:44:25 pm
Hoplite build with the right weapon (Fork or war spear) is perfectly viable, have done it myself at times, to good enough effect, positive K:D ratio, and thats with plenty of 1v1 fights (and wins).
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Banok on February 23, 2011, 09:02:20 pm
This has more implications than just spear and shield spartan wannabies.

No one yet and made the connection that this would make currently pretty OP lance on horseback even more OP, so rebalancing would be needed in that area.

Although you could argue overhead might not be possible with a long lance and balance it that way, its still kind of boring how easy it is to block lance. Lance is currently a OP "sneak attack" weapon, but very lame when fighting an aware infantry opponents. it would be nice to see mounted combat become more like dueling and less like hide and seek is what I am saying.

But the main reason I want it is because as people said overhead swing with longer weapons like pike is just plain daft, although so is blocking with it ;)

Even though it could mean alot of work for the balance department I still think its something the team should push for just because it would make mele combat more interesting and realistic.

PS: pic is from wikipedia which is of course never wrong!
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: hotcobbler on February 24, 2011, 12:45:24 am
I've always been of the opinion that you shouldn't be able to block a spear coming at you from horseback without a shield, but I'm always looking for realism and that's not always what the devs are aiming for. I'm just saying, I'd like to see you not be able to block a spear coming at you from above shoulder height at 20+ mph. From behind. As you spin in the air.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Joxer on February 24, 2011, 01:00:44 am
It's not like a block. It's more like a deflection or something fantasy based :D
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Korgoth on February 24, 2011, 01:04:37 am
Hoplite build with the right weapon (Fork or war spear) is perfectly viable, have done it myself at times, to good enough effect, positive K:D ratio, and thats with plenty of 1v1 fights (and wins).

I like using the Double Sided Lance with Huscarls Round Shield for my Hoplite. Looks more like a Hoplite Spear
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on February 24, 2011, 10:30:04 am
i likes this because somehow spear + shield is useless (only one attacking direction) without ultra WPF on polearm. make it that you can switch weapon mode
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Spawny on February 24, 2011, 10:52:41 am
i likes this because somehow spear + shield is useless (only one attacking direction) without ultra WPF on polearm. make it that you can switch weapon mode

It's not useless, it's a specific niche. It's mighty hard in 1 v 1 duels against people with half a brain, but it's more of a support class.
Your teammate is fighting someone and you poke that guy in his side, making him stagger so your friend get's the kill.
In 1 v 1 I find it much more effective to put the shield away.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: v/onMega on February 24, 2011, 11:19:54 am
I support this with the power of 9000 exploding supernovas. It's stupid that spears have only one stab direction.

I knew the nations nr.1 Spearman would agree xD.

Hope this will never happen since guys like kistus will get superugly since he allrdy is dangerous with his "limited" warspear xD...
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Joelturuz on February 24, 2011, 06:01:49 pm
Just a thought, but maybe the overhead poke could be used as a close range poke of sorts, without a need to spinpoke. Not only does the current poke work very badly against someone who can run exactly as fast as you and has better than cloth armor (and is, of course, facehugging you), it'd also give spearman a bit better close quarter viability.
That is, if this ever gets implemented *fingers crossed*.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Banok on February 25, 2011, 06:45:29 am
long spears should be useless close range. Infact really long ones like pike shouldn't even be able to block with. if you wanna poke people lose use the short spear its under-rated.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Siiem on February 25, 2011, 07:20:13 am
i likes this because somehow spear + shield is useless (only one attacking direction) without ultra WPF on polearm. make it that you can switch weapon mode


Funny, say that to M_pully. He seems to be dooing quite fine with war spear and a shield.
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on February 25, 2011, 10:07:31 am
i will kill this one
Title: Re: Overhead stab for spears
Post by: SteelDevil on February 25, 2011, 10:11:07 am
yes cuz the more possibilities the better