cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: 1slander on February 20, 2011, 11:19:22 pm

Title: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: 1slander on February 20, 2011, 11:19:22 pm
Considering going HOPLITE next retirement just for something different. 

Have people tried this alot and is it viable?

Probably go hybrid Polearm/Throwing - Using say the battle fork with a huscarl shield and jarids.

Seem gimp? 
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: balbaroth on February 20, 2011, 11:25:30 pm
well , id say if your good with polearms , its viable , but i can count my fingers with 1 hand the number of succesfuls hoplites
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Patricia on February 20, 2011, 11:30:42 pm
Hoplites are a support build/class more than anything else, in team, the enemy will HATE you but alone you're not much of a problem.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: EponiCo on February 20, 2011, 11:33:14 pm
It's a funny way to play.
But you have two problems, obviously only one attack direction and also the short range thrust glance. You need an ally around to take care of people that get to close, you can support him with stabs in turn.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: WaltF4 on February 20, 2011, 11:57:22 pm
Considering going HOPLITE next retirement just for something different.

Prepare to be underwhelmed.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Gorath on February 21, 2011, 12:08:35 am
Fun - Very
Viable - No (any average player will counter your hoplite by downblocking forever thus rendering you useless)
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: 1slander on February 21, 2011, 01:24:46 am
Prepare to be underwhelmed.

LoL

Prob pass on Hoplite
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Formless on February 21, 2011, 01:27:20 am
Civilian does really well as a hoptile.  Walt F4 is also very good as a hoptile.   
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Nemeth on February 21, 2011, 01:32:49 am
As was said, hoplite is support more than anything. You need a buddy who you will be runing around with and augment his attacks with your stabs. It is very effective if done well. If you find yourself alone against someone, your only chance is to put shield on your back and play classic polearm dude. I would suggest warspear, as it has no penalty with shield and overall is very good polearm.
But yeah, you really need to pick someone on your team and stick with him. If you're part of a clan, it would be easier to do some coordinated stuff which would make you shine.
I wouldn't say hoplite is not viable. It is, just very hard to pull off as it doesn't depend on you how well you will be doing.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: ManOfWar on February 21, 2011, 01:40:48 am
Patch raped walts effectiveness
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on February 21, 2011, 02:07:08 am
polearm+sheild works well. I went full-on hoplite with my first character, although I wasted points in 1h weapons. I also didn't try throwing.

But over all it was amazingly fun, especially on crowded maps that force phalanx type combat/cluster fucks. Like the bridge maps. 1 on 1 combat is difficult, however you can beat the average player with a little skill. Many underestimate polearm+sheild users.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Zanthos on February 21, 2011, 02:30:53 am
Patch raped walts effectiveness

I'd still say he is quite effective. WaltF4, Civilian, Noobie, Ozymandius, Suuuper(sp?)... all still quite effective with it. It's all about support and the right scenarios. You won't be scoring a lot of 1 hit kills but you will do plenty of damage and annoy the hell out of enemies and stun them (opening them up for a friendly to kill). Some are better at 1v1 than others as well.. especially if they drop the shield.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Tigerclaw on February 21, 2011, 03:35:22 am
I play a hoplite/one-hand/thrower hybrid most of the time, and I find that it works quite well. I use a war spear when fighting in a group with teammates, and generally switch to my niuweidao when I fight alone, and throwing comes in handy versus archers and two-handers. So while I'd hesitate to go as a pure hoplite, hybrid hoplites work very well, especially if you give yourself a backup melee option.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: 1slander on February 21, 2011, 03:42:34 am
may try to 15 then just reroll if i hate it
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Civilian on February 21, 2011, 04:11:37 pm
My build as a Hoplite with late decision to go into throwing.

Age   45 [30]

Strength   15   
Agility   21   

Polearm   152
Throwing   30
   
Power Strike   5   
Shield   6   
Athletics   7      
Power Throw   5   
Weapon master *   6

Viable - No (any average player will counter your hoplite by downblocking forever thus rendering you useless)
This is why I went into throwing. People who play defensive against a Pure hoplite tend to be more difficult to kill.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Gash on February 21, 2011, 05:41:18 pm
I play Hoplite with Civilian.

You need a team or firebuddy to have fun with Hoplite builds.


I always carry a sword and throwing javlins to take out those who think they can just keep down-blocking forever.  :P
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: WaltF4 on February 21, 2011, 10:35:27 pm
Patch raped walts effectiveness
Not sure what to make of this  :?

I do not think my build was nerfed more that other very high agility, single weapon proficiency builds. For what it is worth, my latest generation had a lifetime kill to death ratio of 2.33, my best yet, and a win rate of 56% when I finished level 30. So I think you can make spear and shield work well enough to be useful to your team, but there are almost certainly better things you could be doing.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on February 21, 2011, 11:38:02 pm
I know hoplite works, but do yall think it's feasable for me to go hoplite + xbow?

I'd need about 130 wpf in xbow, maybe less. That's the only requirement for a good xbower, besides the strength to use the weapon. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: 1slander on February 22, 2011, 12:03:32 am
I imagined the hoplite gameplay as being played out as such -

Exhaust throwing jarids, move in on target, still shielded - once within range throw shield on back and fight as polearm user.  I find having a shield to hide behind is awesome for arrows and such, but one of my favorite builds was pure polearm which I never used a shield unless mounted.  This would allow me to safely throw from behind a shield, use the shield in group combat to poke enemies with as a team, then of course the abaility to just use a polearm like a 2 hander.

It is certainly not as effective as a 1 hander and shield when using a shield, but it's a different style all together I guess.  But I guess the polearms I am used to like say the Glaive are not usable with a shield anyhow.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: zagibu on February 22, 2011, 12:50:12 am
You'd probably have to take the military scythe. It's not a bad weapon. Can be quite good even, when fully loomed. The hafted blades can also be used with a shield, but their thrust quite sucks. If you don't need a side swing, the battle and military forks don't get a penalty when used with shield...
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: hotcobbler on February 24, 2011, 12:40:30 am
I'm a throwing focused hoplite hybrid right now. I use warspear and shield right now, and it can be effective in a group. It's also pretty cheap. 1v1 you just hope your team shows up and wait for the shield to break, or put that baby away and go 2h. That's about when you usually die.

I try to play total support, throwing javs and axes at intervals. I also tk a lot (sorry everyone). All in all I die a lot and everyone has a good time killing me.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Korgoth on February 24, 2011, 01:12:38 am
This is the plan for my Hoplite build.

I'm using the Huscarls Round Shield with a Double Sided Lance. When I get to level 30 I will have enough Strength to get Power Throw 7 for Throwing Lances. I will use the Throwing Lance as melee until I need to use my 1 handed sword then I will throw it and hopefully get one kill and charge at the enemy with my 1 Hander :D.

BASICALLY JUST LIKE THIS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTXlWYdodnc

Level 30

Strength 21
Agility 15

Converted 2 (1 Time)
Ironflesh 0
Power Strike 7
Shield 5
Athletics 2
Riding 0
Horse Archery 0
Power Draw 0
Power Throw 7

One Handed 100
Two Handed 0
Polearm 100
Throwing 70
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Spawny on February 24, 2011, 12:33:32 pm
This is the plan for my Hoplite build.

I'm using the Huscarls Round Shield with a Double Sided Lance. When I get to level 30 I will have enough Strength to get Power Throw 7 for Throwing Lances. I will use the Throwing Lance as melee until I need to use my 1 handed sword then I will throw it and hopefully get one kill and charge at the enemy with my 1 Hander :D.

BASICALLY JUST LIKE THIS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTXlWYdodnc

Level 30

Strength 21
Agility 15

Converted 2 (1 Time)
Ironflesh 0
Power Strike 7
Shield 5
Athletics 2
Riding 0
Horse Archery 0
Power Draw 0
Power Throw 7

One Handed 100
Two Handed 0
Polearm 100
Throwing 70

Looks nice, but I have a feeling 2 athletics is really going to hurt you. Fun thing with 7 PT - Use throwing lances with your shield. If in melee mode, they can't really tell if it's a double sided lance or a throwing lance. They engage and the second they back up a bit to far, hit x and toss that lance in their chest.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Krakatit on February 24, 2011, 12:40:31 pm
Looks nice, but I have a feeling 2 athletics is really going to hurt you. Fun thing with 7 PT - Use throwing lances with your shield. If in melee mode, they can't really tell if it's a double sided lance or a throwing lance. They engage and the second they back up a bit to far, hit x and toss that lance in their chest.

Well when i see someone with doublesided lance i always asume that it is a throwing lance.
Ppl fear throwing lances too much to think that the enemy have only harmless doublesided lance :)
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Korgoth on February 24, 2011, 01:05:58 pm
I actually have 5 Ath but when I made the stats I had skill points I forgot to put in :P
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Spawny on February 24, 2011, 04:58:20 pm
Anyway, I was thinking of using this build next gen on my current 21/15 1h/shielder:

I would go for this:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 21
Hit points: 60
Converted: 2

Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 5
Athletics: 7
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 7

One Handed: 140
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 110
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

Gear:
Elite cav shield/Knightly heater shield/Huscarl shield (which ever suits my mood)
War spear or double sided lance (the latter for more thrusting power)
Masterworked sidesword
6k mail
2k boots/gloves
3-4k helm

Compared to my current build, I lose 2 PS, but I gain 2 athletics and a proficiency of 110 in polearms at the cost of 8 wpf points in 1h. Gives me more versatility and a tad more hp.
Currently I have riding at 5 too, but I love playing siege and horsies are quite useless there.

Another option would be 12/24 with (obviously) more athletics and WM. 12 strength is enough to use all 1h weapons but the warhammer and the armours up to 48 body armour. I'm just not sure if a masterworked sidesword will still do enough damage (36 cut on swing) to prevent glancing blows all the time. If it doesn't, it kinda wasting 3 heirlooms as I would have to run around with a steel pick as a secondary weapon.

Comments?
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Torp on February 24, 2011, 05:53:47 pm
I'm going for a 1H/polearm hybrid shielder without throwing.

basically i use war spear when in 2 (or more) vs. one, as it is good support, but i use 1h when in 1 vs 1 (or more) situations.
It works just fine, and i like it :D
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Tigerclaw on February 24, 2011, 06:46:15 pm
I think a lot of hoplites forget that some of the high damage polearms actually have a damage penalty when used with a shield, which means that the War Spear, for example, actually does more damage when paired with a shield then an Awlpike due to the Awlpike's penalty.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Polobow on February 24, 2011, 07:55:39 pm
Fun - Very
Viable - No (any average player will counter your hoplite by downblocking forever thus rendering you useless)

If they downblock forever, other people can hit them. If they attack your ally, change his mind with your piercing pointing stick. Always turns the plates angry.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Gorath on February 24, 2011, 08:07:21 pm
If they downblock forever, other people can hit them. If they attack your ally, change his mind with your piercing pointing stick. Always turns the plates angry.
That's group situations.  Viable means capable in 1v1 in my mind.  After all this is a FPS mechanic styled PvP game.  If you're not competetive in 1v1 you're not truly viable.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: DrKronic on February 24, 2011, 08:14:54 pm
I built a hoplite build two generations ago it worked great you're limited in one vs one but historically hoplite carried a sword for when the unit cohesion broke down, in other words hide the shield vs a true pro most will die and fighting with your team the build I used is more than viable I actually considered it overpowered, my shield of choice was heavy board for immune to crush ability and I really like double sided lance for great pierce plus swingable

The best part was the standard gear was so cheap I could always add a long hafted mace/blade for one vs one winmode
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Dravic on February 24, 2011, 08:23:22 pm
Tell us your build.


_______________________

I was using this build on my hoplite alt, was great fun, but when i changed it to 12/24 str/agi [retired at 29 lvl] for using long awlpike, they made it impossible to use long awlpike with shield, so i gave up grinding on that alt. I may play this build again:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 9
Agility: 27
Hit points: 44
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 9
Athletics: 9
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 173
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

EQ: Awlpike/War spear, eventually some "1vs1" weapon like hafted blade or Iron staff, Steel Shield/Huscarl (with steel shield i had immunity vs crushthrough :D, now i have same build but 1h and it is good, too) and armor is your choice.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Patricia on February 24, 2011, 10:05:30 pm
Started an hoplite recently, (huscarl and war spear) and what I have in mind is to just chain stabs to the moon in big clusterfucks and on 1 v 1, I just put my shield on my back and fight it out like a regular polearm char.

I'm mixed between a 18/21 build  with 6 PS and 7 athletics 7 shield 3 WM or a 15/24 build with 5 PS 8 athletics 8 shield and 2 WM, I'm not sure which one is better, 8% damage increase or the speed of 7->8 athletics.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Polobow on February 27, 2011, 03:11:07 pm
Don't really have a detailed build, but probally the most important one is 6 shield.
Damn, that's good. Once i was just running on a plain shield, while seeing archers infront of me. I raised my shield. What i didn't know, is that there was a cav behind me. When it attacked, it my shield. From behind. Derp.

Also, if they keep blocking your attack, thats good. I always just hold RMB and walk backwards to my allies. My shield will hold that unless there's a axe.
War spear is what i use.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Bifi on February 27, 2011, 07:39:43 pm
I did great with my deadly awlpike + knightly heater shield
Build was

24 str
15 agi

8 PS
5 ath
5 WM
5 shield

137 polearm wpf
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: bruce on February 27, 2011, 08:12:23 pm
I had a 18/18 hoplite-like char with a deadly warspear, it was very effective.... maybe even 21-24/15 would be worth considering, to make that stab count (kill).
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: 1slander on February 27, 2011, 08:17:22 pm
I may go hoplite yet.  But probably ditch throwing if I do - I think it would make the player more viable.  Pure wpf again as well. 

Omg I can't imagine playing without throwing?! 

I should just retire one of my old alts and try it on him.

I wish the calculator pack was working
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Torp on February 27, 2011, 08:50:34 pm
I may go hoplite yet.  But probably ditch throwing if I do - I think it would make the player more viable.  Pure wpf again as well. 

Omg I can't imagine playing without throwing?! 

I should just retire one of my old alts and try it on him.

I wish the calculator pack was working

dont go pure - imo that isnt a good idea as a hoplite

i suggest you go 18/21 1h/polearm

the 1h is much better for 1v1 situations, and you wont sacrifice much polearm prof to get some 1h wpf.
Title: Re: Hoplite Viable?
Post by: Tigerclaw on February 28, 2011, 02:15:32 am
Tried pairing a Double Sided Lance with a Huscarl's Shield today...that thing packs a mean punch, got several one-shots with head hits.