1. More random plains, or perhaps premade maps that are like plains.
This will gradually teach the players to stick together. Teach them not to run after cav.. (I facepalm everyday when I see this too much.) The amount of cover and roofcamping in the village maps encourages xbow static play, invites cav to come around corners for the sudden insta-death couch or lancing or headslashing,
5. Change Cav to be a less individualistic class.
Cav has one of the most powerful teamplay mechanics/tricks available. Bump + lance, but it's very rarely used consciously because they DON'T HAVE TO! They do too well by just running around in a mess. Again relying on individual skill.
6. Add synchronised walk speed.
One of the biggest problems maneuvering random groups on the battlefield is different run speeds. The team always reach the other team spread out. I believe if everyone had the same walk speed, one could keep better formations and keep people together.
I get your point.
But that's why I want to change the class.. Perhaps cav too should have "charge" speed, perhaps even getting a speed/charge/damage/HP bonus if they stick together IDK. What I do know is that area of effect things are possible in cRPG. Also cav mostly prey on the chaotic nature of the battlefield we have. So if everything else get's organized they might have to as well.
We need another one of these:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8764.0.html
Was some great teamplay in there.
I might do another when I am finished with my BA. 3 week of january sounds reasonable for me!
Remind me :D
We need another one of these:This, this was awesome. Might also help to wipe out the dirty stain that strategus leaves on sportsmanship and clan relations.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8764.0.html
Was some great teamplay in there.
1. More random plains, or perhaps premade maps that are like plains.
This will gradually teach the players to stick together. Teach them not to run after cav.. (I facepalm everyday when I see this too much.) The amount of cover and roofcamping in the village maps encourages xbow static play, invites cav to come around corners for the sudden insta-death couch or lancing or headslashing,
2. Somehow appoint some players to leaders. Give them a new color text. (like admins, but other color)
Perhaps every player can get this text if they are at least gen5, and let the 2 best W:L ratio player on the team get it. W:L ratio could be a good tool to find true teamplayers and promote people taking charge and leading with success.
4. Nerf/Change how xbows work.
Make them more mobile, by making faster reload times, nerfing damage. Xbows promote a camping, sniping individualist gameplay where it's SHOOT, HIDE, SHOOT, HIDE. And it works wonderful for the players playing like this. This is not teamplay.
6. Add synchronised walk speed.
One of the biggest problems maneuvering random groups on the battlefield is different run speeds. The team always reach the other team spread out. I believe if everyone had the same walk speed, one could keep better formations and keep people together.
Random plains totally suck and are actually just supporting cav....You can fight perfectly in a team in villages. All that's needed is teamplay :D :D Which we actually lack heavily, I agree on that :/Random plains good for cav? Two teams camp a hill, the cav go fight eachother or charge foolish at the infantry and die. After two minutes no cavalry are left, except one or two with brains.
Isn't it ironic that a NINJA complains about the lack of teamplay :D (kiddin!)
You think people in reallife always run at same speed?^^
1. More random plains, or perhaps premade maps that are like plains.
This will gradually teach the players to stick together. Teach them not to run after cav.. (I facepalm everyday when I see this too much.) The amount of cover and roofcamping in the village maps encourages xbow static play, invites cav to come around corners for the sudden insta-death couch or lancing or headslashing,
2. Somehow appoint some players to leaders. Give them a new color text. (like admins, but other color)
Perhaps every player can get this text if they are at least gen5, and let the 2 best W:L ratio player on the team get it. W:L ratio could be a good tool to find true teamplayers and promote people taking charge and leading with success.
3. Let us buy banners as a kind of polearm.
The system we have about joining groups etc works only halfway. Few people join battalions and even fewer actually use them.. They are too "free" in my opinion. Someone seeing themselves, or getting appointed to be banner bearer by admin would care more about their "Job". Even the ones following and protecting that player. Perhaps loosing or keeping a banner would have some kind of effect like Valour for the people around it, or Valour for the one that takes it.
4. Nerf/Change how xbows work.
Make them more mobile, by making faster reload times, nerfing damage. Xbows promote a camping, sniping individualist gameplay where it's SHOOT, HIDE, SHOOT, HIDE. And it works wonderful for the players playing like this. This is not teamplay.
5. Change Cav to be a less individualistic class.
Cav has one of the most powerful teamplay mechanics/tricks available. Bump + lance, but it's very rarely used consciously because they DON'T HAVE TO! They do too well by just running around in a mess. Again relying on individual skill.
6. Add synchronised walk speed.
One of the biggest problems maneuvering random groups on the battlefield is different run speeds. The team always reach the other team spread out. I believe if everyone had the same walk speed, one could keep better formations and keep people together.
Dosnt Mount and Musket have a marching sped when you hold down shift.
See, the best way to get randomers to teamplay:
1. Assign yourself to a Batallion and carry the flag
2. Use simple orders in Teamchat, e.g.:
"Follow Red Flag (bat1)"
"Care Left Flank"
"Prepare Countercharge"
Best in CAPS
3. Win.
Just used it for 3-4 rounds and won all of them, then my game crashed, team instalost as I heard via TS. Came on again, worked again. Try it out if you think you got the balls to be a commander for a bunch of random people.
See, the best way to get randomers to teamplay:The banner is huge and I cant fight at all with that thing in my screen, can't they be made transparent or invisible for the person carrying it? Basically this limits the usage of flags to shielders, because manual blocking is dirthard with a flag.
1. Assign yourself to a Batallion and carry the flag
2. Use simple orders in Teamchat, e.g.:
"Follow Red Flag (bat1)"
"Care Left Flank"
"Prepare Countercharge"
Best in CAPS
3. Win.
Just used it for 3-4 rounds and won all of them, then my game crashed, team instalost as I heard via TS. Came on again, worked again. Try it out if you think you got the balls to be a commander for a bunch of random people.
No, but you're sure as hell going to match the speed of your comrades if in formation.
Waiting for flags is often the best move you can make and sometimes it's the only good chance you have to win the round.
So please be more patient and make use of flag tactics.
Just waiting for flags is fucking boring too.
You just need a spam control, because at the moment I don't pay any attention to this, as usually someone is only spamming "man the catapult"-shouts, and even if someone was trying to corrdinate something, the other spammers make it really difficult to distinguish his commands. The only thing I really pay attention to are the cavalry warning sounds.When you hear "I am building a catapult." you can be damn sure I'm serious. :D
Edit: lol, I wrote this without even having read your signature :lol: :P
I miss when there were tactics all the time, even the more simple ones, really made for a more fun experience on the servers.THIS AND THIS AND THIS !!!! i remember idea when u enter the server u can enter you "code" or "pin" (so 5 guys from same clan will enter same code and balance will keep them together) but it did not work good.. maybe devs could work more on that idea ?
However, how it usually goes when trying to apply team-play onto battle is that one or several important players gets switched to the other team due to auto-team-balance, and slowly (but rather quickly since its per map) people trickle offline instead, who wants to play on the other side alone while your friends are having fun together. When I try to lead the Nords I almost always get balanced over to the other team, which means at least I cannot lead them.
Also having the battalion flag on you while fighting really skews up your point of view unless using first person.
If there is any way to fix auto team balance in this engine, so that banner balance is absolute unless it is the last resort to balancing the teams, then I'm 100% confident we would see an overall more tactical game on the servers, just make sure the two largest banner groups always ends up on each their team, should help ensure balance.
Thomek you know that a high k/d or a high gen or whatever doesn't make a good leader?no, but gens and k/d make you a better leader then some random guy.
Why should I follow a person who is just running around killing people for his epen? :rolleyes:
And yes it is quite easy to lead on a battleserver, just start it.
We won one map completely yesterday and the other map we won 3 times, lost 1 or 2 and won again afterwards. Just by keeping the people together and telling where to attack.
no, but gens and k/d make you a better leader then some random guy.
Forum vote is better than nothing :)
But it's also not fair. Perhaps there are less active forumers, or relatively unknown players having lots of talent for commanding. On the other hand the community is not that big so..
I think W:L ratio would be more true.. It would also inspire people with ambition to be leaders to crack the teamplay code, and really try to push the W:L in their favor.
We need another one of these:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8764.0.html
Was some great teamplay in there.
teamplay? it is even impossible to get people for a santa-snowfight :|They probably don't get tracked right now, I'd think that would be implementable though.
I'm really curious about those W/L stats if there even is such a thing. Would like to see if there are some surprises and ofc. as well where I would appear.
Still, honestly don't see the problem of choosing by W:L ratio. It gives the commander instant credibility, so the team should have faith in him. It makes players strive to get a good W:L ratio in stead of K:D ratio, eventually producing good leaders.
Would be the fairest way to choose them imo. Of course me and other forumers that are "known" could pick up and lead, but that doesn't mean we are actually talented at it.
2 : If you want teamplay just remove scoreboard alot of players care bout kills to mutch to focus on the team.
Athough is has long gone - XP and gold once were only earned by sticking together and killing enemies - one effect of this was that the team actually stayed closer together -
Teamplay, how can we resurrect it?
Simple: By systematically revamping the entire game from the laggy, buggy, gear crutching, build copying pile of shite that it is and also by murdering the people who vote down this post.
Simple: By systematically revamping the entire game from the laggy, buggy, gear crutching, build copying pile of shite that it is and also by murdering the people who vote down this post.You think a lot worse of this game than it is, I think its just not your type of game.
Have to say, this new auto balance really fucks with this idea. Yesterday afternoon half the server was being switched team every single round. I didn't play a single consecutive round in the same team. Having any form of teamwork/leadership with that happening really won't work.
Buff Infantry's intelligence
You think a lot worse of this game than it is, I think its just not your type of game.
I think it was my type of game, but then they released a bunch of patches which first deleted all my chars,(and I dont mean the really old patches where you lost your char every few days), but fine I got over that, then reduced my experience in the game to something akin to a 1940's black and white movie, in that it became stop motion and hard to follow without any reasons or solutions and I possess a pc capable of making BF3 cry with tears at its own beauty, as well as a connection so stable you could bounce rocks off it.Something with completely unique character building or something.
The changes to the balance was just the proverbial icing on the cake.
ps: Incidentally I would like to know what type of game you believe I like. That isnt meant sarcastically, I would like the observation.
imagine: catapult sending rock of fury into castle, healing tent where line of wounded ppl could go see a surgeon, siege tower attacking the castle.This is my kind of guy.
imagine the possibilites!
If its as laggy and unstable for you, you should take a look at some of the optimization mods that have been made, heard great things about them. Or reinstalling the game, it runs fine for me.
I possess a pc capable of making BF3 cry with tears at its own beauty, as well as a connection so stable you could bounce rocks off it.
Crpg IS individualism...
Right now, cRPG means all players are be equal on the battlefield. Everyone can duel every kind of ROLE on the battlefield always with a small winning chance. I mean for a casual game, this is ... okay. But for a game that ideally supports high level teamplay, like 'Strategus', this is not very helpful. Right now people are encouraged to just choose ANY weapon (preferably matching their skill) and defeat another player on their own, because it might be possible. I think making it more realistic in a radical way, meaning a small hammer can not beat a long axe/twohander/shielder, would be better. Because THAT would encourage more teamplay; and would still not change the levelling logic in general. It actually means being afraid of arch-enemies of your class and being urged to stay in team.
I just got the funny idea that players could also get small rewards for every killed enemy (5xp, 2gold, or perhaps 0.01 more on multiplier?) within a certain range (50m radius?) as long as they did NOT kill them, themselves. I bet this would have funny effects on player behaviour, making them support and protect the others, in the hope of helping them to kill an enemy. I don't think enemies would be sorrounded but not attacked, the greed won't go that far, but it could support more little "squads" like a shielder at the front, followed by a two handed fighter and both supported by a pikeman and a crossbowman. If they decide to help and protect each other this squad is a damn nightmare for everyone.
Agree the current team balancer makes it pointless. But I have hopes it will get fixed.
Anyway.. You are right in that cRPG IS individualism..
Guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to help players be individualist teamworkers. There should be a potential benefit from carrying a banner. There should be potential benefit to listen to the leader etc.
If we manage to lift cRPG into a teamwork game, it will stay so. If team 1 is well led and well organized, winning all the time, team 2 will start to do the same.
Less campy maps would be a start..
In order to get some teamwork going on a few statements have to exist:
1) Player understands teamwork and its benefits
2) Player is willing to serve others
You are right on this, concerning the current state of the game. And as both points are missing badly in the cRPG community, there is something to be done about this.
That's why I suggested to implement a few commander tools to not only give orders, but also to reward players following them. I think money and XP would be the closest thing to decide for, and pretty much everyone wants those, so I think this would work.
This way players wouldn't need to meet those two points above, improving the gameplay for those who actually understand 1) and 2) (those who follow the orders because of the rewards, without really understanding or at least thinking about what they do wouldn't feel bad about the change, either, as they would receive small additional rewards. And still they wouldn't be forced to follow the commands, as they still get their usual rewards per tick)
I think it is more fun, and probably more rewarding to get a 1 time reward rather than ticking in. Ticking in rewards are grind-reminding.
It doesn't even have to be that great.. Valour and/or even a public message would be cool if a flag bearer survived the round, or someone picked up a flag.
That way you will reward people who stop thinking and just do what a person "commands", just to get a bonus :rolleyes:
Further this will totally kill any individualism, as everyone would do that stuff to get more xp or gold :rolleyes:
Bad idea.
People start thinking! Just take the role of commander and start giving orders instead of whining about absent teamplay....If you give clear and understandable and also more or less logic orders (telling your team to charge in a line one after another for example wouldn't be logical^^) people will start to follow you, at least a couple of them. If people see that they survived for a long time they will start following these orders as well --> TADA! Teamplay
You are like politicians^^ Lots of discussion, but it leads to nothing :P
Less talking, more raiding ;)
Short explanations:what the helll is your defenition of a long explanation?!!!!!! :shock:
tl;dr
Let's say leader put a bunch of archers on a field, when they would be better off 10m away in the trees or on a hill for some cav protection.
People won't be mindless robots, you would reduce the whole game to nothing for 99% of players.. Besides we had a commander system not so far away from what you suggest once upon a time.
Teamwork has to be more fun for everyone than what we have now, or there is no point in this thread.
That's the real challenge.
tl;dr
Honestly, Vibe, I couldn't care less. Either contribute something or just fuck off, I don't care, but please stop spamming around, increasing your post count e-peen.
Due to your percentage of useless suggestions I deemed your current suggestion unworthy of time that would be required to read it.if you don't care, you don't have to read it. if you read it and this is the way you think about it, stay away from his topics or try to post something usefull.
PS: post count +1, u mad?
Due to your percentage of useless suggestions I deemed your current suggestion unworthy of time that would be required to read it.
If we reach this point (simply by taking advantage of the greed of the players, rewarding them for following mindlessly, at least in the beginning), chadz can make a new patch that kills the game, removing all command rewards. Players will cry and flame about the missing rewards, but they won't suddenly stop using tactics. Perhaps the overall teamplay level will be that high, that commanders are not even needed that much, any more.
We must create the "custom" of teamplay. People are creatures of habit, once they get used to something, they stick to it. Removing the rewards after some time again will bring back the total "freedom" you were missing in my suggestion. The difference is, that at this point the community will be "educated" enough to gain some advantage of it.
I think what will also help is people carefully looking at clans doing teamplay.
Thanks for your support! :Dwhat's wrong with going to a stripclub! haha(sorry, just had too)
I think this is where the problem lies. What you (and a few others) suggested requires self-initiative from the community (even if it is noticing something very basic.). And this is what you won't get, otherwise we would already have a decent level of teamplay.
I already read other things in this topic, like "if you think about it" or "a vote system won't work, if you see good commanders write them down on a sheet of paper" and similar things. But all those things don't work.
In my eyes the majority of the population on a server behaves like a bunch of lemmings in search of the next cliff. Every other solution than one that "pushes" them into teamplay by default, only letting those out who actively refuse, won't bring any improvement.
It's like the law for compulsory education. First all people are not that into learning and school (as they are still children), but as soon as they get teenagers, many of them realize the importance of a good education, and keep on learning by themselves, to earn a higher graduation. Even if it's not fun for them, they see it's the "right" way. If they wouldn't have been forced by the law to visit the first few classes, many of them wouldn't differ a bit from all that other folks you see in front of pubs, stations or strip clubs, as they wouldn't know it another way.
The only difference is, that teamplay is a lot of more fun, for far more people, than higher education is. :wink:
(click to show/hide)
Part of the problem (a large part in my opinion) is that some people don't want team play. They want to get home, fire up cRPG and relax and just mindlessly play and have fun to help unwind. Nothing wrong with that.
Introduce a mechanic that makes players weaker when on their own
Introduce a mechanic that makes players weaker when on their own, maybe for melee combat so ranged can still skirmish more loosely but will take more damage and be weaker at close quarters if caught. This is a bit like raised shield skill when near other shields in strat.good idea! for cav extra speed and maybe horse hp, for inf more if and ath and for archers more arrows/bolts maybe and extra accuracy. this would encourage sticking together a lot!
- Give players more IF, PS, PT and Shield when being near teammates
- Also give cavalry more riding when riding within very close proximity to friendly cavalry. The increase in manoeuvre will hopefully not be used as only tight formations will confer the bonus meaning any swerving will cause whole formation to get messed up and trip over itself. This would mean horses would gain increased speed and strike power, along with the ps bonus.
- Give ranged maybe a raised wpf in both xbow and bow when together. Maybe faster fire rates if possible.
This would encourage teamwork. We know that this mechanic is possible regarding increase of stats as it has been implemented into strategus, just need to balance out appropriate bonuses for each class.
Ah, but you see they already are!
2. Somehow appoint some players to leaders. Give them a new color text. (like admins, but other color)
Perhaps every player can get this text if they are at least gen5, and let the 2 best W:L ratio player on the team get it. W:L ratio could be a good tool to find true teamplayers and promote people taking charge and leading with success.
I think at the beginning you should indeed stick to simple commands, anything that goes further than "wait over there and attack at 4:30" probably won't work as intended, but the better the average level of teamplay in the community is, the better you can perform commands that are more complicated or require greater self-discipline of the players, for example "fall back while fighting to lure them through a bottleneck"... it requires you to fall back although there is this single pikeman a few more meters away who would be an easy target.
I think there is no problem in creating a command system that provides the commander with a vast variety of options, as he can always decide how percise his orders will be, according to the team he is leading.
1. More random plains, or perhaps premade maps that are like plains.
This will gradually teach the players to stick together. Teach them not to run after cav.. (I facepalm everyday when I see this too much.) The amount of cover and roofcamping in the village maps encourages xbow static play, invites cav to come around corners for the sudden insta-death couch or lancing or headslashing,
2. Somehow appoint some players to leaders. Give them a new color text. (like admins, but other color)
Perhaps every player can get this text if they are at least gen5, and let the 2 best W:L ratio player on the team get it. W:L ratio could be a good tool to find true teamplayers and promote people taking charge and leading with success.
3. Let us buy banners as a kind of polearm.
The system we have about joining groups etc works only halfway. Few people join battalions and even fewer actually use them.. They are too "free" in my opinion. Someone seeing themselves, or getting appointed to be banner bearer by admin would care more about their "Job". Even the ones following and protecting that player. Perhaps loosing or keeping a banner would have some kind of effect like Valour for the people around it, or Valour for the one that takes it.
4. Nerf/Change how xbows work.
Make them more mobile, by making faster reload times, nerfing damage. Xbows promote a camping, sniping individualist gameplay where it's SHOOT, HIDE, SHOOT, HIDE. And it works wonderful for the players playing like this. This is not teamplay.
5. Change Cav to be a less individualistic class.
Cav has one of the most powerful teamplay mechanics/tricks available. Bump + lance, but it's very rarely used consciously because they DON'T HAVE TO! They do too well by just running around in a mess. Again relying on individual skill.
6. Add synchronised walk speed.
One of the biggest problems maneuvering random groups on the battlefield is different run speeds. The team always reach the other team spread out. I believe if everyone had the same walk speed, one could keep better formations and keep people together. [/b]
I think I have to agree with you.. At least what I think is Close to what YOU think about bringing back teamplay.
1.Good Idea
2.Good as long as they choose a Decent guy...
3.Good Idea too
4.Yeap I totally agree
5.They are running around in a mess because . . other peeps (archers - infantry-cav) ofter run around in a mess too , so they see it as the easiest and best way to get kills...
6.No I will have to disagree with you there..because someone else has higher moving speed than you doesn't imply that you can't manouver your group easy... It's all about teamplay.. and Oh it would be unfair A full plated swordsman running the same as a leather-wearing archer
The problem again with the lack of teamplay is this, as stated before by me:
1) Player needs to understand teamplay and its benefits
2) Player is willing to serve others
If these two rules don't apply means no teamwork.
The problem that we are discussing is that we have no teamplay, period.
- We have no respectable and known leaders who want to lead round after round.
- We have no teamplayers and even those who want teamplay fall into soloplay often.
- We don't have many players who understand teamplay.
- We definently don't have a lot of people people willing to help others and keep eachother alive.
- We have a lot of people who want to do what they want to do.
- We have a endless stream of "stick together" and it's effect is diminshed to say the least.
If we want teamplay we need players who want teamplay. Not gonna happen in puplic server.
Or we need the game to support teamplay heavily above individualism.
Follow us, listen to Tueten and you will have teamplay.
Make it possible for players to not need commands or a commander but still do teamwork, via stats buff as I pointed out (page 9). You will find that the passive method will cause people to realise by them self its better to work as a team and when given commands they will not only passively but actively obey. Its a simple method of carrot on a stick, if we try to elect a higher order of players who are capable commanders, the proud, the trolls, the butt hurt they didnt get elected will all possibly go against the command. Mutiny will ensue and you lose all tactics. People dont like being told others are better than them, its as simple as that. Nobody wants to follow orders from some guy they dont recognise or know :/
I think we need to keep it stupid simple.
People must actively carry banners with huge flags and bonuses around.
3 colors (archers, inf, cav)
I still think W:L ratio should determine who should be leaders. The only way to bypass the value you have for the autobalancer is to help others get kills or lead your team. Hence you can be as good individualist as you want, but it won't affect your personal W:L ratio. The autobalancer will always weigh in your leetness with another or 3 players on the other team.
Personally I would only respect the W:L ratio of a leader. It's the facts.. Perhaps the W:L ratio when he leads should be the only ones counting, but still.. Before that normal W:L ratio quite accurately identifies a team player. There will always be some bias towards archers and cav since they more often deal damage without killing, assisting, bumping etc.. But I suspect not by that much more than an average inf.
I still think W:L ratio should determine who should be leaders. The only way to bypass the value you have for the autobalancer is to help others get kills or lead your team. Hence you can be as good individualist as you want, but it won't affect your personal W:L ratio. The autobalancer will always weigh in your leetness with another or 3 players on the other team.
Personally I would only respect the W:L ratio of a leader. It's the facts.. Perhaps the W:L ratio when he leads should be the only ones counting, but still.. Before that normal W:L ratio quite accurately identifies a team player. There will always be some bias towards archers and cav since they more often deal damage without killing, assisting, bumping etc.. But I suspect not by that much more than an average inf.
havent red any post so im dont know if this was suggested, but im making it anyway
what if we give attribute of "commander" to some players, and that somone with "commander" attribute would be able to join as spectator(he wouldnt be actually playing) and he would have all kind of commands and options, AND he would also get the multi and gold of his team,
Atm the autobalancer, it may have even before afaik, takes into account block strength.
That means there is really no way to "beat" it except helping others get kills, AKA teamplay.
No matter the strength of yourself or your clan/block, it will be offsetted by the other team..
i didnt have any commanding skill in mind, i meant it like, a tittle that admin or dev would give to certain player,
Well, stats buff is another form of reward for following orders (e.g. a certain buff within the range of a flag. A "Defend" flag could provide Ironflesh, an "Attack" flag Power Strike, only the bonus of the last placed flag within an area apllies), and what you write after this, about people realizing and actively following orders, shows that we basically agree. :D
in-game voip,It would be hilarious and annoying all in one!
It would be hilarious and annoying all in one!
Would be cool if they tied in-game voip with the battalions.this would be a good compromise