cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Tot. on December 26, 2011, 09:47:52 pm

Title: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Tot. on December 26, 2011, 09:47:52 pm
(click to show/hide)

Haven't played cav before almost at all so my main concerns are: 
1. Is 90 wpf 'ok' for heavy lance?
2. Is 6 riding generally enough atm or I will get chased down/outmaneuvered by people who have bit more?

Keep in mind that my priority is to keep full functionality as heavy infantry aswell, hence 6 shield and ath.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Xant on December 26, 2011, 10:08:49 pm
If I were you I'd go for about 130 1h wpf and more polearm wpf.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: isatis on December 26, 2011, 10:49:34 pm
as xant said.

with this built you'll be effective on both side, but just don't go crazy and try to be cav maniac.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Corwin on December 26, 2011, 10:50:39 pm
This is lvl 31 build, isn't it?
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on December 27, 2011, 04:27:11 am
6 riding is more then sufficient for a skilled cavalry player. I've only just gotten 7 riding, having reached level 30 yesterday. I have, if no one has noticed, been topping the score boards long before yesterday come around :P

90 polearm wpf is sufficient. My previous build had 100ish, and the one before it 90--I was able to perform admirably with both.

As a heavy infantry / cavalry hybrid, this build seems solid.

Side note: Slowing down on horseback will drastically improve your maneuverability, giving you the edge over foes with higher riding skill when it matters most. Don't get into the habit of gluing your finger to the 'w' key :)
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: BADPLAYERold on December 27, 2011, 05:41:08 am
I would just do 0WM and stick all your WPF into 1handers, then use your left over points in maxing out IF.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2011, 06:13:02 am
LLJK advice best advice
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 27, 2011, 07:26:23 pm
I'd also go with a more balanced 1h and polearm's WPP (maybe like 120/115 or somewhere around there).  But having 90 WPP is almost as fast as having 100 WPP, so you won't really notice much difference at all (but as a general rule of thumb I try to have all WPP's be at least 100).

Here's the two cav builds that I think are the best for cav/1h builds (and still being able to hybrid as a foot soldier), also if you plan on retiring, only build for level 30 (as these builds are):

Level 30, 18 str/18 agi (I fucked up, it should say 6 power strike and only 3 athletics):

(click to show/hide)

Level 30, 15 agi/18 str:

(click to show/hide)

I've always went with the 15/18 build (I like the 6 wpf, and 6 athletics).  I've been meaning to try the 18/18 build so I can have 6 power strike though.  At high armor levels the extra 3 str and extra 1 power strike can give me about 1-3 more damage, on light armor about 5-7 more damage, but against light armor I can usually kill them easily anyways with 5 power strike...so it's kind of up to the player's preference.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Torben on December 27, 2011, 07:34:55 pm
put as much wpf in 1h as you need to be as effective as you want to be,  and the rest in pole.  as badplayer says 0wpf works out aswell.  ujin is sporting just more than 50,  he is probably the man i would trust most.

the rest of your build is very solid and you should be a good pain on and of horse with it.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Riddaren on December 27, 2011, 09:41:35 pm
Quote from: Tot. on December 26, 2011, 09:47:52 pm
1. Is 90 wpf 'ok' for heavy lance?

1 wpf is ok for heavy lance.

Quote from: Tot. on December 26, 2011, 09:47:52 pm
2. Is 6 riding generally enough atm or I will get chased down/outmaneuvered by people who have bit more?

Having the required level of riding for the horse you want to use is enough. So I guess that would be 5 for you.

Quote from: Tot. on December 26, 2011, 09:47:52 pm
Keep in mind that my priority is to keep full functionality as heavy infantry aswell, hence 6 shield and ath.

If that is your priority I suggest you get 1-50wpf. I would get 50wpf just for the lowered break chance of the weapon.
Keep in mind that many kills you make as a lancer is versus unaware players. A thrust to the head from behind or the side at high speed will likely kill the target. People with 0 head armour will die at low-medium speed.

Also, the wpf doesn't affect the couch lancing which ca be used quite effectively vs aware players as well.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Tot. on December 28, 2011, 03:31:53 am
Well, did it yesterday,. it seems a lot of fun so far. And yeah, Corwin, its for 31.

One thing I cant really make up my mind on is the horse. Generally it seems to me that the choice comes down to either courser, for avoiding damage and get-in/get-out general behavior, or, uh, cataphract for lingering in combat and sucking up the damage? Destrier doesnt seem to have enough hp/armor to compensate the lack of speed, I frankly have no idea why is everyone using that horse.

BTW. Does it still stand true that loomed courser has less hp than unloomed one?
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Torben on December 28, 2011, 03:54:32 am
no,  loomed horses now have more hp and armor than before. the destrier is an awesome horse,  specially loomed.  but i would go with the cata over it if money wasnt a factor.  the courser is just plane fun and a hole different game,  as would be the arrab aswell.

so its all up to your preferance
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Cepeshi on December 28, 2011, 03:57:43 am
what he said ^

i had the luck to ride both champ. courser and champ. arabian, courser was freaking epic formula for fast picking off the stray infantry, awesome speed, even tho it is doublesided weapon, as the faster you are, the more your horse dies due to oneshots (speedbonus), arabian is cool for town maps, in general for clusterfucks, as the maneuverability owns, also was good to hunt enemy cav with :)

I wish i had some heavy horse loomed to try it out aswell :( Maybe, maybe in few gens... :D
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Kafein on December 28, 2011, 04:07:46 am
The problem of the courser is that it is a giant "hit me" sign. It's actually comparable, if not bigger in size than the destrier, and a lot more squishy. You have the speed, but not the maneuvrability that would naturally come with it. It's the hardest horse to control and you'll crash into pikes or other pointy things often.

I think the reason many choose the destrier is it's really a median horse in all categories. It doesn't drop dead after two shots, it doesn't tear your wallet apart, it only needs 5 riding and it goes and turns barely fast enough. I believe many actually prefer the arab warhorse but don't want to gimp their build with 21 agi, or at least think it would gimp their build.


Quote from: Tot. on December 28, 2011, 03:31:53 am
BTW. Does it still stand true that loomed courser has less hp than unloomed one?

My +3 arab has 15 more hp than a normal one. I guess it's roughly the same for all horses.



This is the build I'm planning to follow (currently level 27), using +3 arab, +3 KAS, +1 HL and an elite cav shield. I'm already satisfied with 5PS, even on foot, as I hardly ever bounce. The 4 shield skill also seems enough.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 50

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 5
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 7
    Riding: 7
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 6

    One Handed: 145
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 72
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1


I usually try to dismount/kill a few enemy cav when the round begins then when things start to settle down I go ninja on the occasional unaware ranged/infantry on the ground. The arab horse is the best for taking on other cav and killing those damned bazooka fairies (when they don't kill the horse first).
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Cepeshi on December 28, 2011, 04:10:35 am
Quote from: Kafein on December 28, 2011, 04:07:46 am
... it doesn't tear your wallet apart...

hmmm....i found myself losing money much faster with destrier actually
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Kafein on December 28, 2011, 04:15:51 am
Quote from: Cepeshi on December 28, 2011, 04:10:35 am
hmmm....i found myself losing money much faster with destrier actually

JUST
WIN
ROUNDS

tbh the best way is to quit / change server when you lose. But that applies to any expensive equipment set. Play more with destrier and with heavier horses and you'll most probably end up with more money when you play the destrier. Except of course, if you really can't play with it for some reason, and do extremely well with heavier horses.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Cepeshi on December 28, 2011, 04:23:42 am
Quote from: Kafein on December 28, 2011, 04:15:51 am
JUST
WIN
ROUNDS

tbh the best way is to quit / change server when you lose. But that applies to any expensive equipment set. Play more with destrier and with heavier horses and you'll most probably end up with more money when you play the destrier. Except of course, if you really can't play with it for some reason, and do extremely well with heavier horses.

I found myself doing quite fine with courser, which is cheaper to upkeep and as it is squishy like hell, i get to practise my footman skills quite often  :mrgreen:

I dont do server changes/quitting on first loss, well i do when i have to go to work or something, but with not so much free time left to play, when i want to play i can even suffer thru few rounds on x1 :P

I am selling 1 outta 4 looms to pay for upkeep, works kek :)

And, i saw some really, really annoying onehanded cav on heavy horses, skilled player with these monsters under them, damn...
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Kafein on December 28, 2011, 04:30:24 am
Quote from: Cepeshi on December 28, 2011, 04:23:42 am
And, i saw some really, really annoying onehanded cav on heavy horses, skilled player with these monsters under them, damn...

That is true, but it takes a really heavy horse (cata + ), medium-heavy armor and a good amount of skill to play that kind of juggernaut effectively.

The point of buying heavier horses isn't to withstand much more arrows (because you don't), it's because of the psychological effect on enemy ranged. When they see a cheap horse, they think "squishy... must... kill...", however, most ranged player won't "waste" their ammo on "tank" horses, resulting in those not getting shot that much, despite being easier to track.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Cepeshi on December 28, 2011, 04:34:33 am
Quote from: Kafein on December 28, 2011, 04:30:24 am
That is true, but it takes a really heavy horse (cata + ), medium-heavy armor and a good amount of skill to play that kind of juggernaut effectively.

The point of buying heavier horses isn't to withstand much more arrows (because you don't), it's because of the psychological effect on enemy ranged. When they see a cheap horse, they think "squishy... must... kill...", however, most ranged player won't "waste" their ammo on "tank" horses, resulting in those not getting shot that much, despite being easier to track.

Tru that since i saddled courser, i found myself and Britney under harder shooting than before :)
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Reinhardt on December 28, 2011, 04:35:22 am
I go usually for an 18/18 build.

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 53

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 6
    Shield: 5
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 6
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 6

    One Handed: 120
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 120
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1

Give or take 120 1h/120 polearm WPF.

Efficient on foot, yet still very useful with a courser. With the amount of WPF, you have enough to kill on horseback efficiently, as well as defend yourself pretty well actually when dismounted. Athletics provides means of escape and attack when need be. Overall my favorite build.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Phazey on December 28, 2011, 11:21:08 am
Yep, +1 to most posts in here.

21/15, 18/18 or 15/21 are all great cav builds.

Always max out athletics, because you'll want to be good on foot. Never take ironflesh over athletics.

Max out power strike, then max out athletics, then choose an appropriate amount of riding (5 for 'basic' mode: destrier and the armoured horses, 6 for courser, 7 for arabian warhorse). Having 'only' riding 4 kinda sucks because you can't use most free horses on the battlefield.
Shield skill becomes really nice with 4 or higher. For me, shield 5 is a must because i love that Huscarl shield, but i guess 4 should be enough usually. However, having 6 or 7 shield is also worth it. I'd say shield skill > iron flesh.

I always max out my weapon mastery. Maybe it's not needed, but i want to be sure my swing speed is maximized. Also, if you're going 1h and pole, you need all the WPF you can get.

So basicly, iron flesh comes last and that's why most cav doesn't use it.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Tot. on December 28, 2011, 04:57:13 pm
Quote from: Kafein on December 28, 2011, 04:30:24 am
The point of buying heavier horses isn't to withstand much more arrows (because you don't), it's because of the psychological effect on enemy ranged. When they see a cheap horse, they think "squishy... must... kill...", however, most ranged player won't "waste" their ammo on "tank" horses, resulting in those not getting shot that much, despite being easier to track.

I'd say this is very true even from the perspective of a green cav player. My cata hardly gets shot at, they always aim at me. :lol:

BTW. Does anyone have the stats of +3 cataphract and cares to share? Finding accurate and up to date information on this matter is quite a task currently, duh.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Cepeshi on December 28, 2011, 04:59:04 pm
Champion Cataphract Horse
hit points: 135
body armor: 51
difficulty: 5
speed: 40
maneuver: 42
charge: 42

enuff to check retirement page  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 28, 2011, 08:21:15 pm
For multiplayer I've always been preferential to the courser.  I only use it so that I can defend or attack against other horsemen and I don't have to worry about anyone running me down. I like being able to catch up to horses as well.  That being said, I try to avoid being anti-cavalry from horseback unless it's to run interference/protection for our infantry, or sometimes if there's a large cavalry skirmish I'll try to dismount people.  Even though I use my courser so I CAN anti-cav, I prefer to be attacking infantry and helping my own ground troops.

And the turning speed is kind of a retarded argument, all I have to do is slow down and I turn faster (not as fast as other horses if they are not going full speed either, but then I'm moving faster forward again...). 

I always feel like my courser has a bulleye on it's sides, but I've got pretty good at not putting myself in situations to get shot to hell.  Changing speeds and lots of turning is good for throwing off ranged.

The horse speed is nice when it allows you to start couching sooner, and it allows you to close the gap on infantry quicker as well.  Even if I was on a destrier, I still wouldn't be riding through large groups of infantry, some of whom most likely will have a lance or spear to stop the horse.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on December 30, 2011, 12:36:31 am
I use a champ courser.

It's fucking awesome. I'm not lying when I say I am a god on that thing--killing literally every fucking player that I set eyes on. The courser gives you a sexy speed bonus, and, most importantly, the ability to zoom in and out of the fight like a fucking bullet.

A fully loomed courser is pretty survivable, with 115 hp. In the hands of a good player, who knows how to avoid getting his or her horse shot/stabbed/cut/beaten, survivability is no problem. Only fight when you think you can win. Play it safe for the most part (save those random, kamikaze death runs), and always be aware. In this way the courser will be just as, if not more, survivable than any other horse.

It's cheaper than the realistic alternatives.

Turning speed's a non issue if, again, you're smart about how you ride around. Slow down, and you can turn more easily. Oh, and just don't fight enemy cav unless you have too.

WORDS OF WISDOM

Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Thtb on January 02, 2012, 11:06:47 am
0/30, hammertime (and riding at the speed of ... slightly faster then everyone else)
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Mephisto on January 02, 2012, 02:30:30 pm
You don't mind if i'll give my opinion?
I'm going for the same exact build but just with one tiny difference: i put all into polearms.
No need to increase Pole wpf due to the very small bonus inadequate to the points you could have placed to 1h.
6 points into horseys is also enough.

Well, Tot, there's also another idea, which im sure you will find very useful.
Dont bother with polearms, and put all the steam you've got into 1h. Good mounted one hander is a big asset to the team.
Title: Re: Need an opinion on cav build
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on January 02, 2012, 06:39:53 pm
I have 100 wpf and when I pick up a heavy lance I can do fine against infantry and not so great - medium cav. However if you come up against someone like Leed or Torben who have a mw heavy lance and pure polearms proficiency they usually can pull a hit on you faster than you on a charge so unless your timing is sublime you have quite a disadvantage :/