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cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Danath on December 24, 2011, 11:54:02 pm

Title: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Danath on December 24, 2011, 11:54:02 pm: I am a cav and considering putting 50 WPP to polearms for use only with LANCES. I do not intend to melee with polearms.

Is 50WPP for polearm just a waste of points if lancing only or will it make a decent difference to my lancing?
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Maximus101 on December 24, 2011, 11:56:56 pm: I wouldn't bother tbh.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: [ptx] on December 24, 2011, 11:57:36 pm: I will give you 25k gold for those, deal?
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Blackpoint on December 24, 2011, 11:58:18 pm: If you just take a joustig lance you dont need to skill polearm

I was onehanded cav 1gen and its awesome.Take jousting lance its fucking cheap bust best to get a free kill .!

Try the jousting lance not allways onehit but its enough to kill someone!
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Danath on December 25, 2011, 12:09:39 am: I use the great lance currently, beats jousting lance, but yeah same principle, couching.

More opinions on the 50 WPP to polearms...
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Renten on December 25, 2011, 12:21:22 am: It depends on what you would be taking it out of and the total score of that stat would have minus the loss it would take. Basically if its high enough the difference will only be 3-4 points and it will hardly matter aside from some really rare occasions.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 25, 2011, 12:25:26 am: It will cut the chance for repairs roughly in half, maybe more, for your lance. beyond that, not really useful.

Oh, and 50 wpf instead of 1 means your damage will be base 92.5% instead of 85%.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Ujin on December 25, 2011, 12:30:03 am: I have 61 in polearms just for lancing ( although you can even somewhat succesfully fight with polearms as inf. too). I say it's worth it .
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Kafein on December 25, 2011, 01:52:59 am: 50 wpf is only useful to reduce upkeep. And upkeep from a lance isn't your main concern at all.

Other than that, if you have a decent armor, there's not much wpf left after the weight malus is applicated. Generally, splitting wpf points in a 50/50 fashion is only advisable with medium armor or lower, so having only 50 points is pretty much useless.

Furthermore, if you are good with 0wpf, maybe you are better not spending any points. Wpf will increase your damage, but shorten your active attacking time window, forcing you to time your releases better.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Danath on December 25, 2011, 02:39:38 am: That part about the armor killing off the WPP concerns me, is there a particular formula or such? No point doing it if it ends up being 10WPP that's used (wear about 40 body armor)... no idea about the calc... concerns though.

Only reason I want to use a regular heavy lance is for the rare times I face enemy cav, and they keep out ranging me, or if vsing someone with a 200+ range spear of some sort, the great lance couching is tough in these cases
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Torben on December 25, 2011, 03:09:23 am: you should listen to this guy, he is somewhat a legend.

Quote from: Ujin on December 25, 2011, 12:30:03 am
I have 61 in polearms just for lancing ( although you can even somewhat succesfully fight with polearms as inf. too). I say it's worth it .
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: BADPLAYERold on December 25, 2011, 03:21:47 am: As far as I know, speed bonus is based on weapon speed with slower weapons having a bigger speed bonus. So the increase in speed/damage you get from more WPF in polearms works out at about the same damage as 1wpf lancing if you get some speed bonus on your attacks. I'm not sure if this is actually true or just a rumour but I have done enough 1WPF cavalry builds to know there isn't much of a difference and you are best off just throwing all your WPF into the weapon type you plan to use when not on a horse.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on December 25, 2011, 03:49:20 am: Danath what is your build?

18/18?

I'm running a 15/21 atm, give my 87 in throw and 150 in 1h. 150 is plenty of 1h I find it works pretty well 7 shield certainly helps :)
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: ArchonAlarion on December 25, 2011, 04:37:45 am: Quote from: Tears of Destiny on December 25, 2011, 12:25:26 am
It will cut the chance for repairs roughly in half, maybe more, for your lance. beyond that, not really useful.

Can anyone inform me fully about how this works? I wasn't aware of this before.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 25, 2011, 07:49:28 am: The more wpf you have the less chance of an item breaking if it is a weapon (not sure this applies to arrow ammunition to be honest).
At 1 wpf this will be around 11% or so break chance, where as 140 gives about 2.5% according to the studies run by whatshis/her face a few months ago. Obviously if using an expensive weapon you will care very quickly about this. The exact formula is not available to the public for whatever reasons.

This wpf relation to break chances have been around for a while (perhaps to help weed out all of the people who used crossbows as untrained sidearms)
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: BADPLAYERold on December 25, 2011, 11:22:35 am: Quote from: Tears of Destiny on December 25, 2011, 07:49:28 am
The more wpf you have the less chance of an item breaking if it is a weapon (not sure this applies to arrow ammunition to be honest).

I'm pretty sure you can have WPF in any melee weapon (1handers, polearms or 2handers) and it will count towards them all in regards to repair %.
But throwing, crossbows and archery are seperate.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Tristan on December 25, 2011, 12:11:53 pm: 120 1h
100 polearm.

50 still worth it though.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 25, 2011, 06:48:06 pm: Quote from: BADPLAYER on December 25, 2011, 11:22:35 am
I'm pretty sure you can have WPF in any melee weapon (1handers, polearms or 2handers) and it will count towards them all in regards to repair %.
But throwing, crossbows and archery are seperate.

Only if one of the secondary modes also match, then it uses the highest of the modes wpf that you have.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Joker86 on December 25, 2011, 07:02:32 pm: I had a theory some time ago, and I'd like to have it confirmed or invalidated.

With low WPF you are stabbing more slowly, right? And as long as you are in the "stabbing part" of the animation, you can inflict damage, right? Could it be, that with a slow stabbing lance you have a bigger time window to wound an enemy? Which could result in more hits if you are not experienced with lancing? Could this be?
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: robert_namo on December 25, 2011, 10:42:59 pm: I have 100 wpf in polearm and I still can't one hit people when thrusting, but when couching, only tincans and very heavy armor have survived at least one. I use a heavy lance and medium armor and my build is 18/18, but this is just a gen 2 alt so I don't know how loomed weapons would work in this case.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Danath on December 26, 2011, 02:49:16 am: A lot of differing opinions on if 50wpp makes a difference (a decent difference)

Final opinions on this? I do not care about breakage, nice to know, but focus is on weapon effectiveness for lancing with 50wpp
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 26, 2011, 04:27:51 am: It will give you effectively a free point in Power Strike (as PS is an 8% bonus), as base weapon damage multiplier is:

.85+.15(wpf/100) or if it helps .85+wpf*0.0015

So some common wpf numbers gives:
1wpf=85.15%
50wpf=92.5%
100wpf=100%
111wpf=101.65%
154wpf=108.1%

So I say it is worth it.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Vodner on December 26, 2011, 10:28:50 am: Quote from: Tears of Destiny on December 25, 2011, 06:48:06 pm
Only if one of the secondary modes also match, then it uses the highest of the modes wpf that you have.
I don't know if anything has changed recently, but Paul has previously stated that '... melee weapons are one category for the extra breakchance thingy. The highest melee skill is picked in the script when checking for breakage.' (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,14164.msg199810.html#msg199810)
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on December 26, 2011, 12:10:44 pm: So yr saying if I have 150 wpf in polearms, and carry a 1h it will break same as if I carry a spear?
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 26, 2011, 09:21:56 pm: Apparently so, I stand corrected.

Either way, the damage bonus alone makes it worth it in my opinion.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: Smoothrich on December 27, 2011, 12:00:42 am: Quote from: Vodner on December 26, 2011, 10:28:50 am
I don't know if anything has changed recently, but Paul has previously stated that '... melee weapons are one category for the extra breakchance thingy. The highest melee skill is picked in the script when checking for breakage.' (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,14164.msg199810.html#msg199810)

This.

I wouldn't bother with 50 WPF for lancing, might as well still be 0. I personally don't like 0 WPF lancing, its good for killing scrub infantry but its harder to do pro juke thrusts and fight cav in CQC. I'd rather just be polearms, or spare the weapon master to get 100+ in poles and a sidearm. Plenty of people do fine with 0 wpf lancing though.
Title: Re: 50 WPP - worthy or pointless?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 27, 2011, 06:38:35 pm: I have two builds I like for a level 30 cavalry build (assuming you plan on retiring as soon as you hit 31). In both instances I basically split WPF between 1h and polearms. It's a nice hybrid build (can still play as infantry) and gives me more than enough WPF to be competitive with swing speeds. I honestly don't notice a huge difference between 70 WPF and 120 (there is a difference, but having 50 or 70 WPF is still not THAT much slower than 120). WPF makes a difference, but it's something like 10% faster at 100 WPF than at 1, so not the end of the world.

This 18/18 build should have 6 power strike, and 3 athletics (instead of 5 ps, and 4 athletics)

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15/18 is my preferred build (and what I currently use):

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I figure the extra Power Strike and 3 strenght with my 1h broad battle axe gives me about 5-6 extra damage versus really light armor, but I kill really light armored people very easily with 5 power strike anyways. 3 extra strength and 1 more power strike only give me 1-3 damage more versus heavily armored people, so not a huge difference (having the 6 athletics and 6 shield is really nice).