cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Cyclopsided on February 19, 2011, 01:28:48 pm

Title: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 19, 2011, 01:28:48 pm
<<COMPLETE SUPER EDIT>>
A topic on melee stones, not thrown.

Stones have the lowest range of all weapons in the game, including unarmed fists due to animation.
Stones have way less reach than unarmed fist, and the stone is used very unnaturally the way it is swung with the 1hander animation.
From a realism perspective, stone should have the unarmed animation, who on earth would swing a stone like that so close to their body without extending their arm?
From a balance perspective, stone should have the unarmed animation because stones can't hit people walking backwards, and most of the time even side to side movement. You'll only hit people dumb enough to stand still or walk into you repeatedly. Many of your swing simply pass through people due to it having such low reach from the 1h animation. It is a crying shame that half of the swings or more while you are touching the enemy will miss anyways. Also, can this even be overpowered as a weapon? it isn't like it can block with other than chambering and has pretty low damage. Even still, I'd actually support a swing speed nerf to the rock if it were so desired.

Obviously two solutions come to mind.
The first one being to increase the weapon length of the stone. Impossible as there is a strict policy on ghost reach, even if it were to only increase it to the fists. Won't be done.
The second option and most logical one is to give the stone the unarmed animation. I thought this was possible, but after a ton of searching I have found out that you can't assign a weapon the unarmed animation as there is no itcf_ heading for it and there is a HARDCODED LIMIT ON WEAPON ANIMATIONS :((((((


So, basically, "Deal with it." .... for now.
When CRPG runs with WSE we'll be able to have hardcoded things changed :D. Finally we'll no longer have hardcoded pole-stun (just to name something at random) -- and maybe even melee rocks will be fixed to the unarmed animation.

This thread is over.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: rustyspoon on February 19, 2011, 01:38:38 pm
As one who finds meleeing with stones to be quite hilarious; I support this.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Dunecat on February 19, 2011, 01:40:25 pm
As one who finds meleeing with stones to be quite hilarious; I support this.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: POCOMAKA on February 19, 2011, 02:03:39 pm
omg, I want 2 see melee stones in action allready :twisted: Ppl r gonna rock each other hard  :lol:
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Grey on February 19, 2011, 02:05:25 pm
I have got several kills with melee stone. it works fine.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 19, 2011, 02:11:19 pm
I have got several kills with melee stone. it works fine.
I have quite a few too, but if the enemy knows how to press his WASD keys, then most of your swings will pass straight through the enemy without registering.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Grey on February 19, 2011, 03:33:18 pm
I have quite a few too, but if the enemy knows how to press his WASD keys, then most of your swings will pass straight through the enemy without registering.

Hmm, you need to hit them when they try to hit you. As they come in to swing, dodge back then rush them as they finnish the swing.

Needless to say, melee stones are the most highskill weapon to get kills with, its neither easy nor effective. High athletics is a MUST.
Spamming them while u stand on their toes works too XD
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 19, 2011, 03:49:30 pm
Hmm, you need to hit them when they try to hit you. As they come in to swing, dodge back then rush them as they finnish the swing.

Needless to say, melee stones are the most highskill weapon to get kills with, its neither easy nor effective. High athletics is a MUST.
Spamming them while u stand on their toes works too XD
I'm telling you that as they are moving even side to side as you are both touching, it will pass harmlessly through their shoulder a lot of the times.
I have no hope of hitting someone walking backwards though.

But you are right on needing high athletics to get more to hit.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Grey on February 19, 2011, 04:25:59 pm
I'm telling you that as they are moving even side to side as you are both touching, it will pass harmlessly through their shoulder a lot of the times.

Yeah, I hear that, and Im telling you the answer to that is to spamm hit, so at least one connects, one connect and its the stun, maybe time for another connect, or run. It DOES miss a whole lot cause of the tiny range, it also only has a very narrow dmg trigger, so u gotta make sure u aim RIGHT at the face. Overheads from the back work well enough!
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Kophka on February 19, 2011, 04:56:23 pm
Yeah, I hear that, and Im telling you the answer to that is to spamm hit, so at least one connects, one connect and its the stun, maybe time for another connect, or run. It DOES miss a whole lot cause of the tiny range, it also only has a very narrow dmg trigger, so u gotta make sure u aim RIGHT at the face. Overheads from the back work well enough!

OR, they could, you know, fix it.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Grey on February 19, 2011, 05:03:06 pm
I guess it needs fixing if everyone has a problem, but I can land a hit just as often as a punch would hit....and it doesnt seem realistic to make the range of a palmed stone THAT much greater than the fist itself....
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Rumblood on February 19, 2011, 05:39:47 pm
OR, they could, you know, fix it.

and Grey could just go complain about Admins  :P
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 19, 2011, 05:50:45 pm
I guess it needs fixing if everyone has a problem, but I can land a hit just as often as a punch would hit....and it doesnt seem realistic to make the range of a palmed stone THAT much greater than the fist itself....
actually fist uses a different animation which extends further and has more range than the 1h animation the rock currently uses.

And i am talking about a miniscule 5 range increase to make it hit correctly. ORRRRRR you could give the rock the Unarmed animation!

But, if you want to talk about weapon length numbers, I'll refer to the cleaver. It is the shortest weapon in the game [except for the stone] and it has 35 range. However, it extends from the hand less than that. But if it had any less range it wouldn't actually connect when it should.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Krakatit on February 19, 2011, 05:59:14 pm
Like developers have nothing better to do than modifying melee stone :D
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Grey on February 19, 2011, 06:06:23 pm
Like developers have nothing better to do than modifying melee stone :D

They dont??!! AWESOME, we should see it fixed soon then!

and Grey could just go complain about Admins  :P

The VAST majority of the admins seem nice well adjusted people.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 20, 2011, 02:53:55 pm
Lol, this is literally a minute fix. It should just be the change of a value I'm pretty sure.

I just think it is wrong that a melee stone has less range than fists and as such misses people you are touching a lot. You can't get closer. It just needs marginally more weapon length or the unarmed animation. I hope a dev can actually respond to this rather than a troll.

I've been having to spam right attack with the stone since it is the one that hits most reliably (and not very reliably at that) due to the animation having more range. Thanks!
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Joelturuz on February 20, 2011, 03:54:04 pm
I don't know what stone model cRPG uses (couldn't find it), but normal stone in Warband is exactly 7 long. So unless cRPG modified it, the stone is of correct lenght.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 20, 2011, 06:01:00 pm
I don't know what stone model cRPG uses (couldn't find it), but normal stone in Warband is exactly 7 long. So unless cRPG modified it, the stone is of correct lenght.
The model is the correct length. This isn't about that, and I am not asking them to change anything with the model.
+1 to you though.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Fasader on February 20, 2011, 06:08:50 pm
Sorry guys, we do not (knowingly) give invisible reach to weapons.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Xant on February 20, 2011, 06:48:59 pm
Sorry guys, we do not (knowingly) give invisible reach to weapons.

Even if I ask nicely?!
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Nemeth on February 20, 2011, 06:54:14 pm
I am yet to see you ask someone nicely.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Xant on February 20, 2011, 06:54:38 pm
I am yet to see you ask someone nicely.

It's a hypothetical question.
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 20, 2011, 07:23:08 pm
Sorry guys, we do not (knowingly) give invisible reach to weapons.
I was expecting that answer. I've currently had the mentality of "Just deal with it."
Then my appeal is to the animation used with the rock. The 1h animation is bad for it, especially the left swing. The left swing has such low reach it is actually pretty funny to imagine someone swinging a rock like that. Compared to the unarmed animation's left swing which actually extends the arm the way you would if you were to hit someone with your fist (same if you had a rock in your hand). I don't know the numbers, but just by looking it has almost twice the reach of the 1h left slash and it actually hits the enemy when it should.

Hopefully I have not been unreasonable about this. I'd actually be fine with a speed nerf to the rock if you just fixed the animation of it so it could hit enemies. Thanks for replying!
Title: Re: Stones. Yes, Stones.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 22, 2011, 09:15:17 am
Alright, I admit defeat temporarily on this.
It appears that the unarmed animation can not be given to ANY weapon due to it needing to be a different animation and there being an itcf_ animation limit hardcoded into warband...


But all hope is not lost! When WSE is used in conjunction with CRPG, hardcoded things are able to be changed!
oooooooohhhh WSE. Those will be the day when pole-arms don't have their hardcoded stun and I can finally melee properly with a rock.

I'll be editing my initial post to update this.
Please refer to the first post now. It has an adequate explanation on everything. Thank you :)