cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Inkompetent on December 12, 2011, 01:53:15 pm

Title: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 12, 2011, 01:53:15 pm
Me and a buddy decided we wanted to try playing proper samurai. Since we can't get both riding skill, horse archery, polearms, bows, 1h weapons, and 2h weapons to cover for the use of yumi from horseback, yari or nodachi, and wakizashi or katana, we decided to go for being on foot, with 2h (katana or nodachi) and yumi.

As it stands now the absolute minimum points I'm looking at is 18/18 to get sufficient power draw for the yumi, and strength for a nodachi, with room to increase to 21/18 or 18/21.

As for skills Power Strike, Power Draw, Athletics, and Weapon Mastery are maxed. Iron Flesh (or possibly Riding) will only be taken with spare points, if getting any.


Question is: More strength, or more agility? Hitting harder is always nice, but especially the nodachi is a pretty slow weapon, and the bonus athletics and weapon mastery speaks for agility focus rather than a bit more hard-hitting sword and bow.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on December 12, 2011, 02:22:38 pm
I like this idea so i made a build for you (note: lvl 31 build)

Strength: 18
Agility: 21
Hit points: 53
Attributes to skills: 1
Skills to attributes: 8

Power Strike: 6
Athletics: 7
Power Draw: 6
Weapon Master: 7

Two Handed: 122
Archery: 130

You can tweak the wpf values to your liking, depending on if you want to shoot or fight more

I would say the answer to your question would be more agility, if you are  a hybrind you need the extra wpf points and besides 6 ps is enough for a power cutter like the nodachi.

Also i have a mw nodachi for sale/trade if you want one
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Torben on December 12, 2011, 02:26:06 pm
i like muffins build. 
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 12, 2011, 02:44:05 pm
Looks like a pretty solid build to me. Unfortunately I don't have neither the money nor items to trade.  :cry:
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Torben on December 12, 2011, 02:50:42 pm
btw this is my wanabe samurai outfit ^^

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Cup1d on December 12, 2011, 03:21:02 pm
meh, you can't make good (not gimped) samurai at 30 level.
6 PD requirement for Jumi make «samurai» build almost impossible.

Level 31 (8 892 403 xp)

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 53
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 0
Athletics: 6
Riding: 5
Horse Archery: 3
Power Draw: 6
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 100
Polearm: 1
Archery: 135
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

31 level, Jumi, barbed arrows, rouncey, katana (you can use katana on horseback) or Long hafted blade (you can slash with LHB on horseback too - 100 wpf go in polearm in this case)
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Corwin on December 12, 2011, 03:49:52 pm
You will not be able to carry Yumi, arrows and any twohander (except Mace which isn't samurai) together.

Forget archery, get riding instead and be two handed cavalry using katana. 
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 12, 2011, 03:50:40 pm
Heavy Samurai Outfit+Courser+Katana=Win
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Cup1d on December 12, 2011, 03:55:53 pm
Quote from: Corwin on December 12, 2011, 03:49:52 pm
You will not be able to carry Yumi, arrows and any twohander (except Mace which isn't samurai) together.

Forget archery, get riding instead and be two handed cavalry using katana.

Jumi is one slot bow. You CAN use Jumi, one quiver of arrows and any twohander of your choise.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Corwin on December 12, 2011, 04:00:56 pm
What??? Sorry then for idiotic comment.

Anyway, two handed cavlary is lot cooler. Something like this (my build for next gen probably):

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 56

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 6
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 4

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 138
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Rebelyell on December 12, 2011, 04:02:06 pm
i fought about char of that kind i will try muffins bulid
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Digglez on December 12, 2011, 04:29:08 pm
NINJA/SAMURAI
·   Strength: 15
·   Agility: 24
·   Hit points: 60
·   Skills to attributes: 8
·   Ironflesh: 5
·   Power Strike: 5
·   Shield: 0
·   Athletics: 8
·   Riding: 0
·   Horse Archery: 0
·   Power Draw: 0
·   Power Throw: 0
·   Weapon Master: 5
·   Two Handed: 136
·   Polearm: 75

Granted this lvl 30 build you wont be able to use Nodachi or Long Hafted Blade, but doable once you get lvl 31.  Dadao isnt that much different than Nodachi and its pretty cheap.  There so much cav these days that not having polearm skill is very dangerous when using no-thrust or poor thrust dmg swords.  Bring a bamboo spear to fend off cav until you engage in mortal melee combat!  Also, carry a long dagger to assassinate those unworthy of proper quick deaths.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 12, 2011, 04:50:29 pm
Looking at Cup1d's fun-looking spec I gave my hands at trying to make it decent for level 30 (since at 31 I'll be going for heirlooming), and this is what I thought out, based on my current stats, which includes 113 in 2h skill.

Strength: 18
Agility: 18

Hit points: 53
Skills to attributes: 2

Power Strike: 5
Athletics: 5
Riding: 4
Horse Archery: 3
Power Draw: 6
Weapon Master: 6

Two Handed: 114
Archery: 123


4 in riding is hardly making me a master rider, but it should be enough for crazy-as-a-japanese passbys with the yumi. Possibly removing one point in HA to put in riding instead, to improve horse speed and maneuverability.
In a final build I'd probably reduce my 2h skill a bit to further improve the archery.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Cup1d on December 12, 2011, 05:00:50 pm
Quote from: Digglez on December 12, 2011, 04:29:08 pm
NINJA/SAMURAI
·   Strength: 15
·   Agility: 24
·   Hit points: 60
·   Skills to attributes: 8
·   Ironflesh: 5
·   Power Strike: 5
·   Shield: 0
·   Athletics: 8
·   Riding: 0
·   Horse Archery: 0
·   Power Draw: 0
·   Power Throw: 0
·   Weapon Master: 5
·   Two Handed: 136
·   Polearm: 75

Granted this lvl 30 build you wont be able to use Nodachi or Long Hafted Blade, but doable once you get lvl 31.

Can you explain, why you can't use LHB with this build?
TBH, 15\24 is great build for LHB only. You don't need backup 2H weapon if you know how to fight with LHB. At least it's true for battleserver.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Digglez on December 12, 2011, 05:10:43 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on December 12, 2011, 05:00:50 pm
Can you explain, why you can't use LHB with this build?
TBH, 15\24 is great build for LHB only. You don't need backup 2H weapon if you know how to fight with LHB. At least it's true for battleserver.

Because Nodachi & Long Hafted Blade are 16 STR requirement.  This is a lvl 30 build with only 15 STR.  At 31 you could have 16 STR and use them.  Samurai value speed and agility over brute force & endurance.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 12, 2011, 05:18:02 pm
Quote from: Digglez on December 12, 2011, 05:10:43 pm
Because Nodachi & Long Hafted Blade are 16 STR requirement.  This is a lvl 30 build with only 15 STR.  At 31 you could have 16 STR and use them.  Samurai value speed and agility over brute force & endurance.
Actually the LHB only requires 15 Str. The nodachi however does indeed need 16.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Phazey on December 12, 2011, 05:34:05 pm
The only way i can make an horse archer / two hander hybrid work is with a level 31 build:
(click to show/hide)

How much WPF you put into archery and how much into two hander (or polearm, if you prefer that) is up to you.

Drawbacks:
Having 'only' Horse Archery 3 kinda sucks though, or so i heard. Most horse archers swear you need at least 4 to be able to hit things while riding at speed.
Also, you will be limited to 1 stack of arrows, which isn't a lot, especially for a horse archer.

On foot, you will be fast enough with athletics 6, but the WPF in two hander (or polearm) is quite low, so don't try to spam.

Besides those drawbacks, it might be a viable build. Who knows. Jack of all trades and master of none, eh?
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 12, 2011, 06:21:04 pm
Quote from: Phazey on December 12, 2011, 05:34:05 pm
Besides those drawbacks, it might be a viable build. Who knows. Jack of all trades and master of none, eh?

Sums up the build pretty good. We don't really expect to be very good in anything either, but rather just have fun emptying a quiver of arrows into the enemies before getting into melee. When running out of arrows we can always either charge in on horseback, or dismount and fight on foot. Depends on if using katana or nodachi I suppose :)

Upside with the bow is that we as sword-infantry still can do something against enemy cavalry. Even horse archers. Doesn't take more than 3-4 arrows to down the lesser horses.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Digglez on December 12, 2011, 09:44:46 pm
Quote from: Inkompetent on December 12, 2011, 05:18:02 pm
Actually the LHB only requires 15 Str. The nodachi however does indeed need 16.

THey must have changed it recently.  I dont play my Samurai alt all that much
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Okkam on December 12, 2011, 10:25:04 pm
Quote from: Digglez on December 12, 2011, 09:44:46 pm
THey must have changed it recently.  I dont play my Samurai alt all that much


yea, it was changed for 15 str requirement. But before (in january) it has only 10 str as requirement.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on December 13, 2011, 12:40:24 am
Quote from: Digglez on December 12, 2011, 05:10:43 pm
Because Nodachi & Long Hafted Blade are 16 STR requirement.  This is a lvl 30 build with only 15 STR.  At 31 you could have 16 STR and use them.  Samurai value speed and agility over brute force & endurance.

LHB is only 15 strength requirement.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 14, 2011, 09:59:24 am
Can gladly report that - even though we've not gotten decent riding skill yet - this build works really well. Light or ordinary Strange Armour (Heavy is too expensive due to yumi), katana, and yumi with bodkins or barbed arrows, is working really fantastically well.

As a note though: I can't seem to afford to play it at all. Playing with only strange armour, leather gloves, no helmet, and a katana, I can't afford to repair the items. <.<
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Torben on December 14, 2011, 04:33:21 pm
you need to stack about about 30-40k,  than you will have enough to survive fail streaks
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 14, 2011, 07:53:04 pm
Well, sold the horse that I had pre-purchased, and I could at least afford to repair the katana, and start collecting Light Strange armour. Was enough to give me a turn-around, and now I can even afford to use the bow :)
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Jdodds99 on December 27, 2011, 10:15:10 pm
I like this build :) I always wanted a good 2H build but this looks added awesome. If anyone knows a great pure 2H build then please link me.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 27, 2011, 10:49:55 pm
I can say that aside from the Yumi being a pretty bad bow it's a fun build.

For pure 2h I am however pondering the following (since I'm almost 31 now and can retire):

Strength: 18
Agility: 21
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 3
Power Strike: 6
Athletics: 7
Weapon Master: 7
Two Handed: 163

That's a nodachi-build that I plan to run with a mix of light, normal, and heavy strange armour.


An alternative is:

Strength: 16
Agility: 24
Skills to attributes: 10
Power Strike: 5
Athletics: 8
Weapon Master: 8
Two Handed: 172

Has 8hp less, and lower power strike, but is even faster, I think. I'm not entirely sure how much strength affects being slowed down by equipment weight.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Cup1d on December 28, 2011, 12:38:10 am
Yumi is not bad. You just need at least 150 wpf for 6PD bows. This make «true» samurai impossible with our soft level cap.

Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 28, 2011, 12:45:07 am
But with 150 wpf in archery it's pretty much impossible to be half-decent with the katana, unless spending 16 hours a day in the game until 2013 to get to level 32+ :(

Example level 31 build:

Strength: 18
Agility: 21
Skills to attributes: 6
Power Strike: 6
Athletics: 7
Power Draw: 6
Weapon Master: 7
Two Handed: 89
Archery: 150
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: zagibu on December 28, 2011, 04:32:07 am
A proper samurai is a horse archer.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Inkompetent on December 28, 2011, 09:51:23 am
The "most proper" build would be a horse-archer with polearms and 1h weapons for a yumi, yari (war spear or somesuch), and a wakizashi or shorter, but to make that work at anything below 35 isn't very doable, since the yari is supposed to be the primary weapon on foot :(

Edit: On the other hand a 2-slot polearm, yumi, and quiver already uses up all the slots. Still pretty much requires level 31 to be a half-decent build though. Pity samurai didn't use crossbows. Would be so much easier!
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: BlackMilk on December 28, 2011, 01:07:30 pm
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 16
    Agility: 24

    Skills to attributes: 10

    Power Strike: 5
    Athletics: 8
    Weapon Master: 8


    Two Handed: 150
    Crossbow: 109

Think this is the best build for a ninja. 150wpf is more than enough and the 16 str (thus nodachi is usable) and 109 crossbow (pewpew) bring more variety into your game.

Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on December 28, 2011, 02:52:45 pm
15/18 nuff said.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Cup1d on December 28, 2011, 03:00:58 pm
Quote from: FRANK_THE_TANK on December 28, 2011, 02:52:45 pm
15/18 nuff said.


you can't use Yumi with your build.
Title: Re: Proper samurai. Doing it right?
Post by: Phazey on December 28, 2011, 06:29:50 pm
Quote from: Inkompetent on December 27, 2011, 10:49:55 pm
[...] but is even faster, I think. I'm not entirely sure how much strength affects being slowed down by equipment weight.

It doesn't. So you're faster with 8 athletics than with 7 athletics carrying the same weight. Strength does not reduce the impact weight has on your movement speed, afaik.