cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Soldier_of_God on February 16, 2011, 03:27:03 am

Title: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Soldier_of_God on February 16, 2011, 03:27:03 am
Crushthrough is not a problem with me... but there are some weapons that are unbalanced. i will list the offending items and you all have 1 VOTES to decide which ones you hate, or to vote for nerf on a particular item.

--------2h--------

Comparison stats:

Two Handed Sword     5444        weight 2.25
requirement 11
spd rtng 96
weapon length 110
swing damage 38, cut
thrust damage 25 pierce

Bar Mace   5150    weight 4.5
requirement 13
spd rtng 92
weapon length 96
swing damage 35, blunt
thrust damage 0 blunt
Crushtrhough
Unbalanced
Knockdown

Studded Warclub   2854   weight 3.5
requirement 10
spd rtng 96
weapon length 92
swing damage 29, blunt
thrust damage 16 blunt
Crushtrhough
Unbalanced
Knockdown

Spiked Mace   2250   weight 2.75
requirement 8
spd rtng 100
weapon length 70
swing damage 31, blunt
thrust damage 0 pierce
Crushtrhough
Knockdown

Long Iron Mace   4355   weight 4.5
requirement 11
spd rtng 94
weapon length 95
swing damage 33, blunt
thrust damage 20 blunt
Crushtrhough
Unbalanced
Knockdown


All these weapons, in my opinion are over the top because of speed and weight discrepancies that break the gameplay.

its one think to take a maul, greatmaul, mallet, or pole hammer and swing mindlessly into a crowd. theres a place for that, and it make teamwork necessary on sieges.  every team needs a shock troop, and this is it.

its another to duel with a weapon that makes your 1h,2h, or shield impotent when blocking; an important part of dueling.
any of the aformentioned weapons should NEVER be a good option against a well balanced, light weight, long reaching
fair speeded two handed sword. EVER.


Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Vygar on February 16, 2011, 09:43:46 pm
I think crushthrough should be removed period.  Any weaopn that completely negates your RMB defenses is gamebreaking.  Shields already have a counter in bonus damage to shields which is plenty. 
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Diomedes on February 17, 2011, 07:00:34 am
There's no "none" option in the poll.


I've played four builds now: hoplite, archer, light 1h+shield, heavy 1h+shield.  In each case I found opponents with crushthrough weapons to be manageable and predictable, rarely ever a surprise or exceptional fight.  There are some exceptionally skilled players who know how to rely on their strengths, and who fight mainly in very advantageous situations, but this is true with every class.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Patricia on February 17, 2011, 07:26:41 am
I rarely have problems with crush through weapons, 95% of the time I can footwork my way to victory without much trouble.

Though the barmace and long iron mace are both pretty damn fast to have a crush through, atleast the spiked mace is offset by the fact even with 13 PS and 39 strength the chance to crush through is like 1%
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Ganon on February 17, 2011, 07:32:16 am
Where's the option "none" ?
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Matey on February 17, 2011, 07:34:15 am
Great Maul. more than any other. agi build with great maul is broken.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Camaris on February 17, 2011, 10:30:34 am
Tbh Great Maul maybe a problem for shielders if they dont attack first (short weapon) but if you use Great Maul vs 2handers you are lost if your opponent isnt really bad.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Spawny on February 17, 2011, 11:11:13 am
Barmace in a fight with a 1h:

Block once - overhead (if he sidesteps, just follow him during the swing as even hitting the side of the shield or his foot deals full damage) - overhead - overhead - dead.

If you step back when he overheads, he'll just have to block once again to kill you anyway. Unless they're plain dumb, you'll have a hard time beating him.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: La Makina on February 17, 2011, 02:11:41 pm
Barmace.

I often use a 2H axe and I am always in big trouble when facing barmaces because they have a longer range. Even though I can block most of their attacks, the expected unstoppable overhead attack will eventually kill me, one shot, whatever I do, whatever my head armor.

It is also very ugly, looks like a spare part from a locomotive. Did this exist in the Middle Age?
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Xant on February 17, 2011, 02:25:29 pm
Barmace.

I often use a 2H axe and I am always in big trouble when facing barmaces because they have a longer range. Even though I can block most of their attacks, the expected unstoppable overhead attack will eventually kill me, one shot, whatever I do, whatever my head armor.

It is also very ugly, looks like a spare part from a locomotive. Did this exist in the Middle Age?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Barmace
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Magikarp on February 17, 2011, 02:35:54 pm
Full str builds will be rendered useless if this gets nerfed, really.

Normally it's just people who are way to passive if they lose to these builds.

Why are people whining now, and not before btw? When plate was virtually costless this build was OP as hell, yet none cared.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: [ptx] on February 17, 2011, 02:53:34 pm
People did care. Morningstar was even more OP than barmace now, even if it was shorter. Not sure why they didn't nerf barmace back then, together with MS.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Elmetiacos on February 17, 2011, 03:22:09 pm
If the Bar Mace is nerfed, people will switch to the Long Iron (Sarranid) Mace instead; it's the same weight for crushthroughs, 1cm shorter, 2 less damage but 2 more speed, and it can thrust.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: bruce on February 17, 2011, 03:23:53 pm
If the Bar Mace is nerfed, people will switch to the Long Iron (Sarranid) Mace instead; it's the same weight for crushthroughs, 1cm shorter, 2 less damage but 2 more speed, and it can thrust.

ALL the fast maces which can crush are getting nerfed. Barmace, long iron mace, you name it.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Xant on February 17, 2011, 03:24:06 pm
It's gonna be nerfed too.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: rustyspoon on February 17, 2011, 06:39:03 pm
Full str builds will be rendered useless if this gets nerfed, really.

Normally it's just people who are way to passive if they lose to these builds.

Why are people whining now, and not before btw? When plate was virtually costless this build was OP as hell, yet none cared.

I think a lot more people are talking about crush through now because siege is much more popular. If you've ever charged up a ramp and were met by half the opposing team wielding crush through weapons you know how much it sucks.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Soldier_of_God on February 17, 2011, 06:48:52 pm
Where's the option "none" ?

this is not a yes or no poll, this is about people who think a particular crush through weapon is op. if you cant vote on the poll, then you aren't the type of person that thinks that crushthrough is a problem. and if thats the case... there are lots of other threads around here saying they're not if you wanna defend it.

that is meant to all the "wheres the none option" people, not personally.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Momo on February 18, 2011, 04:54:44 pm
Another whine topic about nerfing crushtrough. It's totally fine, and you need a lot of PS for it. Fix the lolaxe instead :).
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Michael on February 18, 2011, 05:43:55 pm
The spiked mace? lawl are you serious about that one? You would need 15 power strike to crush through with it through a peasant turtler.

How many topics do you want to make?

With my shielder, I lost against Barmace and Co when I forgot to bring a sword. Well, that was my fault then, if I noticed my mistake in time I turned around, picked up a sword and killed him.

With my lancer, on foot, with 0 athletics I never had any problems against Barmace, I simply spam left-right-left swings with long hafted knobbed mace/ blade, etc.


Whatever. As usual the crybabes get what they want. So lets remove crushthrough from every named weapon.

Mauls etc just make shorter than the peasants sickle and slower than flamberge/ long great bardiche. Wait, its already a lot slower. lol
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Xant on February 18, 2011, 05:58:31 pm
So Michael, you never get overheaded by the greatswords either? With your 0 athletics? :D

Funny.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Memento_Mori on February 18, 2011, 05:59:56 pm
With my lancer, on foot, with 0 athletics I never had any problems against Barmace, I simply spam left-right-left swings with long hafted knobbed mace/ blade, etc.

 

Fire vs Fire, Long hafted Knobbed mace is 34 blunt, balanced, & 94 speed, 138 length VS Bar mace, 35 blunt, unbalanced, 94 speed, 96 length. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm who's gonna win?

Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: _JoG_ on February 18, 2011, 06:28:23 pm
Basically, I was feeling pretty comfortable with the current weapon balance and didn't care much about the common "nerf everything that kills me" forum whine until one thing happened. Once in a siege server, I picked up a mighty bar mace from the ground. I was able to crush through ANYTHING (shields (including the best ones), polearms, 2h swords, ...) in 100% of cases. The funniest thing is that my character had only 18 strength by that time and 160+ 2h weapon proficiency. So, (1) I could not be outspammed by anything; (2) all I had to do is to block my opponent's first attack and then kill him.

It was the weapon that made a difference. The crushthrough with those long and relatively fast weapons should be nerfed since there's no way to escape it unless the barmacer is a complete newbie.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Vexus on February 18, 2011, 07:00:46 pm
It's been said so many times Its getting annoying now.

Bar mace, long iron mace and probably studden warclub too are going to lose crush through next patch.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Beauchamp on February 19, 2011, 03:35:10 am
I think crushthrough should be removed period.  Any weaopn that completely negates your RMB defenses is gamebreaking.  Shields already have a counter in bonus damage to shields which is plenty.

crush through was introduced into warband to disadvantage turtling against those that take the action. those moving, attacking, taking action should always benefit over those that are just hiding in a cover - the only problem is that its a bit unbalanced for some weapons aka barmace. but this will be fixed sooner or later.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Rextard on February 19, 2011, 03:49:15 am
If spiked mace gets nerfed, then there will be no point to sell it at all.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Dante_Goujian on February 19, 2011, 03:56:19 am
If spiked mace gets nerfed, then there will be no point to sell it at all.

Agree
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: UrLukur on February 21, 2011, 12:56:01 pm
If spiked mace gets nerfed, then there will be no point to sell it at all.

So what ? There is no point selling most 1h swords as well.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Rextard on February 28, 2011, 07:14:20 am
Wellllll, it's short as shit, and its crushthrough is already useless. I've noticed some problems with reach on the overhead; a fair few times now I've gotten an overhead animation going straight through someone's head, and I am rewarded by having to watch a slower or later timed attack come in and kill me. Quite possibly some of those instances have been lag related, but some fights where it happened lag wasn't an issue.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: owens on February 28, 2011, 07:37:54 am
Your all fools for a start a vote with no none option is pointless and those weapons are all shit. Before you start your whining and trolling think about this a 2 handed sword is faster does equal or more damage has more attack directions and is balanced. I understand that it is frustrating to be crushed by one but they are far worse weapons statistically until you get that fabled knockdown.

Its my opinion that if the speed of these weapons is nerfed than the chance off breaking block should go up. If break block is removed these weps will die out and you whining fools will be to blame.
Title: Re: Crush-thru weapons that need to be nerfed...
Post by: Boroda on March 01, 2011, 08:11:54 am
Maybe it should have less weight?
cus now crushthru with barmace is real wigh str 18+ with holding and running forward, and with str 30 with holding strike and running forward...
So... make the difference!
 Agi builds should be unable to crushthru...... str builds should be able but slow mowing....
smth like that

but nerfing this weapon, cutting off crushthrough ability at all,  will make this weapon useless