cRPG
Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Fluffy_Muffin on February 14, 2011, 10:07:21 pm
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Theoretically even with your peasant cutter katana (ridiculous, talking about realism, that this shitty "sword" can cut down an armored guy or even a armored horse even with only 3 power strike in 1 or 2 hits) you can do your usual thing, spam spam spam, its only the fear factor to get 1 shotted why you die.
Real tamahagane katanas can cut down a man in half with a single swing.
Talking about realism it should be superior because it is; in terms of balance, weight and sharpness the katana is unmatched.
Edit: if you ask me the tanto, nagimake, yari and tachi should also be introduced for more variety
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Real tamahagane katanas can cut down a tank in half with a single swing.
Fixed.
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Real tamahagane katanas can cut down a man in half with a single swing.
Talking about realism it should be superior because it is; in terms of balance, weight and sharpness the katana is unmatched.
Edit: if you ask me the tanto, nagimake, yari and tachi should also be introduced for more variety
Too bad most slash type weapons are rendered useless against chain armour or higher.
Only way to really kill a tincan with a sword was to stab them.
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Too bad most slash type weapons are rendered useless against chain armour or higher.
Only way to really kill a tincan with a sword was to stab them.
You could also grab it by the blade and hit them in the head with the pommel or the handguard, effectively using your sword as a mace, another technique used to deal with armour.
Would be epic if it was the overhead when you're using a sword in half-sworded mode (except someone would have to make the animations and you can't make it have a different damage/damage type on some specific swings without ugly kludges using on-hit trigger).
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Real tamahagane katanas can cut down a man in half with a single swing.
Talking about realism it should be superior because it is; in terms of balance, weight and sharpness the katana is unmatched.
Edit: if you ask me the tanto, nagimake, yari and tachi should also be introduced for more variety
The Katana, while being the undisputed greatest type of sword ever made, is not the true engineering marvel in this situation. The true engineering marvel is in fact the scabbard made to hold a katana. The Katana was known about for centuries before it could be effectively used. This is because the Katana was so sharp that it would almost instantaneously cut through even the finest scabbards. It took many generations of Japan's finest armorsmiths to find a way to interweave fibers in a compact enough fashion to prevent a scabbard from instantly being sliced in twain when a Katana was sheathed. Armor stood almost no chance at all.
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I heard if you drop a REAL KATANA on the floor, it'll slice to the center of the planet. I heard it on the internets.
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We should all get katanas, I'm constantly being robed by Ninjas and Tincans on armored horses when walking down the street in broad daylight...it would come in handy
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The katana is a useless weapon irl and I'll prove it with this picture.
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The Katana, while being the undisputed greatest type of sword ever made, is not the true engineering marvel in this situation. The true engineering marvel is in fact the scabbard made to hold a katana. The Katana was known about for centuries before it could be effectively used. This is because the Katana was so sharp that it would almost instantaneously cut through even the finest scabbards. It took many generations of Japan's finest armorsmiths to find a way to interweave fibers in a compact enough fashion to prevent a scabbard from instantly being sliced in twain when a Katana was sheathed. Armor stood almost no chance at all.
trololol. smoke more. then go buy a sword, any sword, with a composite sheath, or wooden sheath, and see that the blade's edge doesnt touch the sheath at any point.....neither in europe nor asia. The blade is held at the blunt side by sidepreasure, and at the hilt and tip by its close fit to the leatherembossed wood there.....
Asian armour could deflect most strikes from a katana by the 1700's. European armoured warriors of the previous centuries would have trolled the japanese VERY hard if they had ever entered into actual combat.
The thing to remember is that the katana is not lightweight and fast by choice, but simply because japan has NO steel in it. They had to make the smallest amount be useful, so super lightweiht weapons was the answer. Attemp to damage the armour of anyone in mail, mail and plate, and you will just break your katana. A fully plated warrior with no mailcoat beneath, would in theory, be vulnerable to the speed of the katana, if its user knew where the weakest joints in the plate were and could get at them unnoposed. Unlikely.
Europeans would have smashed the living shit out of Japan if they had fought in the middle ages, much as they did 600 years later in WW2. Sheer lack of materials stopped Japan being a superpower on more than one occasion.
And, as we all know, girls in thongs can made Katana's useless in seconds.....
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Grey just made the best post I ever could have expected out of this community.
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The Katana, while being the undisputed greatest type of sword ever made, is not the true engineering marvel in this situation. The true engineering marvel is in fact the scabbard made to hold a katana. The Katana was known about for centuries before it could be effectively used. This is because the Katana was so sharp that it would almost instantaneously cut through even the finest scabbards. It took many generations of Japan's finest armorsmiths to find a way to interweave fibers in a compact enough fashion to prevent a scabbard from instantly being sliced in twain when a Katana was sheathed. Armor stood almost no chance at all.
I didnt know this, thx for sharing. Also the magnolia and ray skin hilt is also impressing, i never wielded a real one but they say the grip on the hilt is fantastic.
Its fascinating and intricate work, there was a great documentary on Japanese masters, dont remember the name of it now but it showed just how much work and dedication it takes.
From the miners and the furnace that creates tamahagane, to the smiths that bend the metal over and over again creating the 2 layer core (which is said to give the flex and durabilitay to the blade) to the master who work with little shaprening stones and finaly to the artists that give that final touch to the blade.
You cant help but respect that kind of dedication.
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The Katana, while being the undisputed greatest type of sword ever made, is not the true engineering marvel in this situation. The true engineering marvel is in fact the scabbard made to hold a katana. The Katana was known about for centuries before it could be effectively used. This is because the Katana was so sharp that it would almost instantaneously cut through even the finest scabbards. It took many generations of Japan's finest armorsmiths to find a way to interweave fibers in a compact enough fashion to prevent a scabbard from instantly being sliced in twain when a Katana was sheathed. Armor stood almost no chance at all.
I salute you,well done, you fooled the OP. :D
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This whole realism thing again?
Do you really believe that shit? That Katanas are the greatest swords ever? lol
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This whole realism thing again?
Do you really believe that shit? That Katanas are the greatest swords ever? lol
Name a more finely crafted and efficient sword
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Name a more finely crafted
Swords are tools for killing, not for showing off, and are not considered by how much time it takes to craft one by some exquisite method but how efficient as killing tools they are.
and efficient sword
Just about every european twohanded sword from the period?
The Katana is only really efficient at cutting unarmoured people. Hell, even the Japanese started using polearms en masse instead when they had to face a real army (the Chinese) instead of internal squabbling and massacring peasantry. Then they switched back to using katanas when they decided they don't really want to squabble with anyone outside Japan and would prefer to cut their own peasants instead.
Here's what a proper twohander looks like (I'll probably get one if I manage to scrounge the cash before they get out of stock): http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-danish-2-hander.htm (http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-danish-2-hander.htm)
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The katana isn't any better at cutting through armour than any other bladed weapon. In fact, these swords had hard but brittle edges that didn't fair so well against materials of similar hardness. Any parrying done with the katana, is done with surfaces other than the edge in order to protect it's sharpness.
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Ah here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxYvwEnKRjA
The broadsword apeares more sluggish and unbalanced, but they both cut well.
And by finely crafted i meant the weight, balacne, sharpness etc. not the art.
And Vygar is right the blunt side of a seasoned warrior had many little notches from parrying.
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I am not a katana lover(and i used to play as a ninja) but here is some katana love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih7bmzFQ9rI
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I've seen enough anime to know that katanas easily slice both armored or unarmored opponents in half with a single strike. Watch some anime if you don't believe me.
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Is this is a troll thread? Please say it is.
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It is what the community makes it.
The community is full of trolls so yes, this is a troll thread
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It is what the community makes it.
The community is full of trolls so yes, this is a troll thread
Incase youre cereal.
The katana is nowhere near as powerful as the anime cartoons you see, portray it.
The katana is sharp yes, but its also fragile and easy to break, as someone else allready said, it was mostly used to cut down peasants.
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The katana is sharp yes, but its also fragile and easy to break, as someone else allready said, it was mostly used to cut down peasants.
and not any sharper than other cutting swords ...but don`t forget that the katanas nowadays are not that fragile...they were because of bad steel now with the globalism the japanese can buy better steel from other lands :P
the almighty katana is something out of fantasy...most swords are of similar quality.
and no im not an katana hater or lover...i like all weapons :D though i hate that most people think the only swords the japanese have are katans :P
asian swords are not better than european swords and eurpean swords are not better than asian swords...
and again...hard to understand because a sword to cut down 4340349 enemies in one strike like in hollywood movies...the Sword might be a good overall weapon but much better weapons exists to for example kill heavy infantry or other enemies.
polearms were the primary weapon for many armies for a reason.
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polearms were the primary weapon for many armies for a reason.
Mainly striking distance and price
add to that the fact that sword in inexperienced hands is only a danger to self, whereas almost everyone can use a pointy stick.
Swords take training, time, upkeep, and 3 times the amout of metal that most polearms/pikes have.
most polearms also started out as farming implements before they were later adopted and weaponized by the millitary. Take for instance, the billhook. Designed for cutting branches and taking care of orchards. used quite effectively by press-ganged farmers during war to kill mounted knights, pulling them from their horses.
the peasants knew how to handle their farming tools, and the majority of armies in the middle ages were serfs protecting their lords interests. It only makes sense that they designed the polearms in such a way that these people would have the greatest advantage with something that was more familiar in their hands
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add to that the fact that sword in inexperienced hands is only a danger to self, whereas almost everyone can use a pointy stick.
Huh?
Well I don't have a sword but I have some pretty big knives I use without training. And so far I havn't hurt myself ... don't cut myself regularily ... am still alive. Well...
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Huh?
Well I don't have a sword but I have some pretty big knives I use without training. And so far I havn't hurt myself ... don't cut myself regularily ... am still alive. Well...
Now try cutting your potatos with a spear. Might not be that effective, but you won't hurt yourself at all
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Katana was easily able to cut through the thickest steel armor. That's the reason why Japanese didn't use metal armor or shields. It even occationally happened that atoms were sliced from a cut of really well crafted katana. This would then lead the brief existence of unstable fission products, giving the sword a faint radioactive aura. It is assumpted that Godzilla was created because of this, when a missed katana swing cut through a pitchblende rock next to a lizard egg.
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Incase youre cereal.
The katana is nowhere near as powerful as the anime cartoons you see, portray it.
The katana is sharp yes, but its also fragile and easy to break, as someone else allready said, it was mostly used to cut down peasants.
I dont watch anime cartoons and infrom yourself about the making process before you say that they are fragile and easy to break cause thats BS.
The metal wasnt beaten into place in a conventionaly way it was folded and stretched over and over again untill the sword got its basic shape, thats why it was able to flex and still remain sharp. It wasnt a brittle piece of metal i dont know where you got that from.
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Katanas are underpowered. (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Katanas_are_Underpowered_in_d20)
Edit: corrected link, now it works.
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The reason the process was so complex was mostly due to the poor quality of the iron ore they had to use. It was an interesting process and ingenious, but I wouldn't say it ended up producing "superior" quality weapons compared to other places. They basically had to do a lot more work with the ore to get it to the same strength. I also don't know about fragile, it was probably as fragile versus armor as any other curved, slashing weapon who's main purpose was never to get through armor. The katana was mostly a status symbol for samurais anyways, when they actually went to war they would usually use a naginata (polearm), yari (polearm) or bows.
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1. Real tamahagane katanas can cut down a man in half with a single swing.
2. Talking about realism it should be superior because it is; in terms of balance, weight and sharpness the katana is unmatched.
Edit: 3. if you ask me the tanto, nagimake, yari and tachi should also be introduced for more variety
It seems nobody is reading my original post so ill quote it.
Firslty i didnt say the katana could cut trought plate. (1.)
The second statement stands. (2.)
The katana was mostly a status symbol for samurais anyways, when they actually went to war they would usually use a naginata (polearm), yari (polearm) or bows.
My third suggestion supports this. (3.)
I dont know why every one got the impression that i was saying the katana was the ultimate wepon of doom that could cut trough diamonds and kill a milion men in a single slash :rolleyes: so many ppl bashing instead of reading my original post, i just responded to the statement that it was a shitty weapon, wich it wasnt. The reason i responded was because i personaly admire and respect the smiths and masters that worked on it.
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You know, i did read your original post just now. i will say this.
1.) katanas are good swords IRL, and in game at the moment.
2.) game balance takes precedence over any historical accuracy, although a longsword and a katana have a similar function, irl, and in the game... dueling weapons that can be used 1h/2h without heavy penalties. longsword is slower/longer, katana is faster/shorter.
also...
Longsword 5123 weight 1.8 -----> pretty well balanced duel weapon... european staple weapon of knights.
requirement 9
spd rtng 98
weapon length 106
swing damage 36, cut
thrust damage 25 pierce
Secondary Mode
Katana 8212 weight 1.25 ---------> a little op, but offset by its pricetag... and yes, its a weapon worthy of honor/recognition.
requirement 9
spd rtng 102
weapon length 95
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 18 pierce
Heavy Great Sword 9001 weight 2.75 --------> the next step up. considering good speed of the former, katana is better.
requirement 13
spd rtng 94
weapon length 120
swing damage 39, cut
thrust damage 25 pierce
Can't use on horseback
3.) yes, but just because they are japanese doesn't mean they should be OP... and let me say why. based on not only your first posts, but your posts and others you agree with this is primarily about one thing...
your preference for eastern weapons.
you are biased, like some others, that they are the best swords ever. any sword with similar properties to a katana, curved or non curved... will cut a man in half, considering the man is not armored... which would mean REALISTICALLY, neither a cruciform sword or a katana would do ANY DAMAGE AT ALL AGAINST CHAINMAIL. that would suck in game, yes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxYvwEnKRjA
this talks about the swords being different for different purposes. the larger the sword, (european), the better at bashing.
the larger the sword (japanese) the better for slashing. different worlds, different armor, different technique, different physique.
Both are good. they have purposes different IN GAME, AND IN REAL LIFE!
thats my piece, peace.
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You know, i did read your original post just now. i will say this.
1.) katanas are good swords IRL, and in game at the moment.
2.) game balance takes precedence over any historical accuracy, although a longsword and a katana have a similar function, irl, and in the game... dueling weapons that can be used 1h/2h without heavy penalties. longsword is slower/longer, katana is faster/shorter.
also...
Longsword 5123 weight 1.8 -----> pretty well balanced duel weapon... european staple weapon of knights.
requirement 9
spd rtng 98
weapon length 106
swing damage 36, cut
thrust damage 25 pierce
Secondary Mode
Katana 8212 weight 1.25 ---------> a little op, but offset by its pricetag... and yes, its a weapon worthy of honor/recognition.
requirement 9
spd rtng 102
weapon length 95
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 18 pierce
Heavy Great Sword 9001 weight 2.75 --------> the next step up. considering good speed of the former, katana is better.
requirement 13
spd rtng 94
weapon length 120
swing damage 39, cut
thrust damage 25 pierce
Can't use on horseback
3.) yes, but just because they are japanese doesn't mean they should be OP... and let me say why. based on not only your first posts, but your posts and others you agree with this is primarily about one thing...
your preference for eastern weapons.
you are biased, like some others, that they are the best swords ever. any sword with similar properties to a katana, curved or non curved... will cut a man in half, considering the man is not armored... which would mean REALISTICALLY, neither a cruciform sword or a katana would do ANY DAMAGE AT ALL AGAINST CHAINMAIL. that would suck in game, yes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxYvwEnKRjA
this talks about the swords being different for different purposes. the larger the sword, (european), the better at bashing.
the larger the sword (japanese) the better for slashing. different worlds, different armor, different technique, different physique.
Both are good. they have purposes different IN GAME, AND IN REAL LIFE!
thats my piece, peace.
I totaly agree with you, and i like western style swords also, mostly the "bastard" type ones, i think its a good mix between speed, lenght and control. The longer ones seem sluggish and i always prefered finesse over brute force.
In game tho i use a Danish greatsword. Since there is no stamina bar and you cant it makes it a very efficient weapon.
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Not this "katana is the best sword eva!!!!" nonsense again, surely?
Watch a katana getting pwned by some German steel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hy_A9vjp_s
5:57 Katana chips longsword and, as a result, is bent beyond use.
6:41 German longsword tries same test but tears through sword, breaking it in half. Longsword suffers only minor chips to blade.
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To be honest, German Steel imo is much better than japanese. they are a leader in steel manufacturing technique, and as a matter of fact, Germany is doing quite well for itself, seemingly better than its surrounding countries.
Im proud to be German-American.
along with the Milanese, the Germans lead the rest of Europe in Armor and Weapons development, creating some of the most fearsome medieval implements ever seen! other nations followed later.
even in WW2, these two European superpowers were a force to be reckoned with. we could have had Deuchland Duck in Disneyland were it not for the allied coalition. of course, Japan was in that force too... but not nearly as much of a threat. still 3rd place in the reich is like 3rd place in the olympics! Japan must have done something right!
Damn i wish that Onin No Ran would come to Warband! >:(
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Toledo steel afaik was known as the best european steel.
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Toledo steel afaik was known as the best european steel.
Yeah it was during Renaissance, but even toledo steel is weak in comparisson to the steels of today.
During the middle ages, when MOST of the weaponry in crpg is set, Japanese steel was very mild, and that is why they layer it in katanas SO many times before they fold it.
Most europeans had better steel, but there was NO test center back then for your manufacturing process.
So think: Most of the soldiers on a field would have their own sword, and most of these individual swords would have come from a different blacksmith, who made each by hand: So, some people would have AMAZING swords, some would be passable, others would shatter on first use. But ANY heavy sword, axe, or polearm would most like go straight thru a Katana if they met midswing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHTJAKN-5k&feature=related
check that out too see what would happen if a katana met a halberd mid swing.
Now: what we see on TV and movies as katanas, they are mostly made with modern high tensile steel, and a modern katana, made with such steel, if you ever found a traditional swordsmith who could work with modern steel, could make a sword that COULD slice thru steel plates, cars, etc. But it would need sharpening on VERY expensive materials (Stories tell currently of sharpening methods to take the edge beyond whats VISIBLE, sharpening it finally on silk, then dust blown across the blade at the exact angle).
But, today, you could make a sword that would slice thru medieval steel swords and armour. Back in the middle ages, most samurai did their killing from horseback, with a bow, for a reason. Katana: Shithot for dueling, and looks very stylish, but not a battlefield weapon.
BTW, samurai means "The way of the horse and bow", so they have been getting some strange press in european cinema, since the time of Toshiro Mifune.