cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Digglez on December 02, 2011, 03:21:01 am

Title: Military hammer speed
Post by: Digglez on December 02, 2011, 03:21:01 am
Speed reduction was overdone on this.

Its great that theres now another option for blunt users besides Warhammer to use, but seriously 94 speed on a 1h'er? 

Military hammer was already the slowest 1h and one of the LEAST USED WEAPONS and now you take it down 2 more to be slower than a Studded Warclub (more reach, more speed, more weight).


Balance team, did you expect people to want to use this taking it down 2 more speed?  96 speed was already pretty much a deathwish for 1h user, but now noone is going to use this weapon.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Huey Newton on December 02, 2011, 06:13:00 am
idk man it makes sense considering it has 80 length. the longest 1-h mace in the game.
i think i might start using it off horseback now
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Digglez on December 02, 2011, 06:39:05 am
idk man it makes sense considering it has 80 length. the longest 1-h mace in the game.
i think i might start using it off horseback now

yes, its justified that due to it being a both a blunt weapon and the longest 1h blunt that it is slow, but it was already the slowest...now your going to make it even slower?  You pretty much cant even land a hit on anyone thats half decent at blocking its so slow.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Kalam on December 02, 2011, 07:16:53 am
lol. I never really saw anyone use this but myself, but then I got 15 str and now I use the warhammer, so it's all good.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Tzar on December 02, 2011, 09:40:14 am
I bought one from the market after the new model came out luckily for me i managed to quickly sell it again.

Its simply too slow to use against an aware opponent.

You cant feint with it... your enemy can go to the toilet take a shit an comeback an block your swing before your hit lands.

96 speed might help i dunno tbh..

Atm its useless
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Camaris on December 02, 2011, 11:11:12 am
the problem with it is that it is now much longer then the other hammers.
If its to fast people wont use anything else in the blunt area. Why should anyone chose
Warhammer if its 96 again? 1 Speed or 15 length????

I think its ok. it got 10+ length and lost 2 speed. If you dont like it use Iberian Mace
or Warhammer.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Digglez on December 02, 2011, 08:29:43 pm
the problem with it is that it is now much longer then the other hammers.
If its to fast people wont use anything else in the blunt area. Why should anyone chose
Warhammer if its 96 again? 1 Speed or 15 length????

I think its ok. it got 10+ length and lost 2 speed. If you dont like it use Iberian Mace
or Warhammer.

What you're failing to realize is that it was a pretty bad weapon to BEFORE (96spd 70reach) they changed it..now even though its gained reach, its still not attractive at all.  Like Tzar said, 94 speed for a 1her is eternity.

Seriously compared to Iberian mace, MH gains .2 weight & 9 reach at the cost of 3 speed?  Doesnt sound like a very good deal to me, which is why you'll continue to see a great looking weapon go unused
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Paul on December 03, 2011, 05:03:28 pm
I'm using this weapon and it's awesome. Alt mode has +1 speed. Tzar sucks.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Xant on December 03, 2011, 05:20:48 pm
I'm using this weapon and it's awesome. Alt mode has +1 speed. Tzar sucks.

What does the alt mode do, aside from giving +1 speed?
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Paul on December 03, 2011, 05:33:48 pm
Lowered pierce damage.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Xant on December 03, 2011, 05:36:49 pm
Ahh. If it's lowered a lot then I doubt it's worth it. But 80 reach blunt 1h is awesome anyways.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Okkam on December 03, 2011, 05:43:57 pm
idk man it makes sense considering it has 80 length. the longest 1-h mace in the game.
i think i might start using it off horseback now

Longest? What about Goedendag?
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Vexus on December 03, 2011, 05:46:23 pm
Longest? What about Goedendag?

Duh 2h? They are talking about 1h weapons.

Also OP comparing the 1h hammer with a 2h aka weapon held with 2 hands not 1 won't make your points better.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 03, 2011, 05:48:14 pm
Isnt Goedendag 1h/2h anymore?
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Vexus on December 03, 2011, 05:50:06 pm
Not sure it was before but you must be really new or dumb to use it with a shield to fight.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Xant on December 03, 2011, 05:52:54 pm
It gets -30% damage and speed when used in 1h+shield mode AFAIK, so yeah..
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 03, 2011, 05:59:39 pm
Still, its longer.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Teeth on December 03, 2011, 06:55:26 pm
Is it just me or does the new model for this thing look a lot longer than 80 length? More like 95 or something.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Laufknoten on December 03, 2011, 07:18:51 pm
I tested it. It's allright, the lenght makes up easily for the low speed. Left-to-right-spam doesn't work, but changing between blunt and pierce is nice.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Teeth on December 03, 2011, 10:55:34 pm
Isnt pierce just the silly little brother off blunt?
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 04, 2011, 01:39:54 am
Its actually the bigger brother since pierce does more damage to armor than blunt.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Huey Newton on December 04, 2011, 05:21:06 am
not to mention the new model looks god awful

terrible texturing looks like original mount and blade shit

ugh
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Teeth on December 04, 2011, 12:04:04 pm
Its actually the bigger brother since pierce does more damage to armor than blunt.
Wroooong!

Edit: Guess we're both somewhat right

armor_soak_factor_against_cut       = 0.65
armor_soak_factor_against_pierce    = 0.5
armor_soak_factor_against_blunt     = 0.4

armor_reduction_factor_against_cut       = 1.6
armor_reduction_factor_against_pierce    = 1.1
armor_reduction_factor_against_blunt     = 1.3

Armour soaks the least damage with blunt, but pierce ignores more of the armour value. Can someone explain which is better against armour, pierce or blunt?
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 04, 2011, 02:36:24 pm
Guess they are the gay incest brothers then or something
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Vexus on December 04, 2011, 04:10:51 pm
Pierce deals a little more on plated people (Test it with vargas damage calculator) but it's roughly 1-5 more damage depending on the PS and speed bonus of course.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Vodner on December 05, 2011, 12:48:04 am
I've been playing around with the hammer, and I feel that the extra length definitely compensates for the lower speed. It's nice to have an 80 length can-opener.

It's not really a dueling weapon, but it works quite well in battle and siege.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Phew on December 05, 2011, 06:46:53 pm
I watched Saulcanner wreck everyone on NA siege with this manhammer yesterday.  I also tried it on a STF alt and had a lot of fun. Then again, I even enjoy the Morningstar with a shield.

Slow 1h is a totally different style; you have to play offensively, but in a support role (charge in and land a hit on someone while they are attacking a teammate). If you get attacked, turtle up until you see an opening or a teammate helps you.

Just because a playstyle is crappy for duels doesn't mean you can't be devastating in Siege or Battle just by being aware of your surroundings.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Xant on December 05, 2011, 07:01:19 pm
94 isn't that slow. You don't really need to change playstyle for it, it's not a greatsword-great maul jump in speed.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Digglez on December 05, 2011, 09:08:30 pm
94 isn't that slow. You don't really need to change playstyle for it, it's not a greatsword-great maul jump in speed.

ya except a greatsword is 40 longer (120 longer on a thrust attack) and greatmaul cant be parried
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Xant on December 05, 2011, 09:09:48 pm
ya except a greatsword is 40 longer (120 longer on a thrust attack) and greatmaul cant be parried

The sky is blue at day and black at night. Still, I don't see how any of this has to do with speed of the weapons.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on December 06, 2011, 03:52:59 pm
Tried it a bit with STF, seems to work OK.

Not the best weapon out there, but not all can be.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Xant on December 06, 2011, 05:01:10 pm
Played with it a bit, both in duel and battle. Awesome weapon.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: rustyspoon on December 07, 2011, 04:36:54 pm
Been using it a bit myself. Don't see any problems with it.
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Laufknoten on December 07, 2011, 04:46:30 pm
Been using it a bit myself. Don't see any problems with it.
It was just the OMG speed<99 derp reaction of people who can't perform with any weapon other than the left-to-right-spamitar.
It's actually a very well balanced weapon, the devs did a good job for once...
Title: Re: Military hammer speed
Post by: Tristan on December 14, 2011, 09:08:17 am
I've seen more and more people using this weapon with success.

What is funny is that you say a weapon needs a speed of 96+ to be valid?

My experience is, that if you use a low wpf build (hybrid or hight str), it is your timing that matters anyway, hence weapon speed is of less importance and length a much greater help.