cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Prinz_Karl on November 30, 2011, 03:27:18 pm

Title: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Prinz_Karl on November 30, 2011, 03:27:18 pm
You get that message hardly ever...
...when you have decent armor and good weapons.

You get that message often...
...when you have very bad equipment.
...when all your equipment is damaged and shit because you didn't repair it.
...when you're playing with your alt where the message is completely useless.

So I played a long time with mail armor and good weapons and never got that message. Then I changed my good gear to very bad gear for one day and that day I got the message. What's the big secret about the appearance of that message people are wondering about? Is it just that you get the message when you have crap gear?
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Lennu on November 30, 2011, 03:29:02 pm
Lol, that's some bad luck man.... or is it?
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Prinz_Karl on November 30, 2011, 03:33:39 pm
Lol, that's some bad luck man.... or is it?

It's not luck the message isn't random. Same happens to my clanmates.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Braeden on November 30, 2011, 03:44:40 pm
Its luck.  One of my clanmates got it more times than I have in total (counting alts and everything) within a week, on his main, using his preferred weapons.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Slamz on November 30, 2011, 03:45:47 pm
Suggestion regarding alts

They should make it so that if your alt gets the message, it goes to whatever saved equipment your main currently has selected (from the website).

That would solve a couple issues:
* You could get points on expensive / difficult equipment easier (plated chargers, ladders, low/mid-level gear you want to craft but would prefer not to have to wear)
* You could play alts without screwing yourself in strat


Come to think of it, maybe the message should always give you points on your "saved" gear rather than your currently equipped gear.  I think that would be better all around.  Save the stuff you want to craft but switch to whatever gear you want.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Slamz on November 30, 2011, 03:47:25 pm
It's not luck the message isn't random. Same happens to my clanmates.

It's luck.

The message is random.  Pretty sure.  I've had it twice in one day and then not been able to get it again for two weeks.  Same character.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: buba on November 30, 2011, 04:38:30 pm
Yea i think its luck too, its to random tho.
Like i am afraid to retire becouse the last time i retired i got the msg at lvl 4 or something.
If i am not mistaken there is talk to make the crafting less random, so hang in there.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Slamz on November 30, 2011, 04:43:40 pm
Yea i think its luck too, its to random tho.
Like i am afraid to retire becouse the last time i retired i got the msg at lvl 4 or something.
If i am not mistaken there is talk to make the crafting less random, so hang in there.

I have also heard that you never get the message after you hit 31.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: buba on November 30, 2011, 04:45:25 pm
thats correct, but its been changed.
Or will be.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Beat on November 30, 2011, 04:53:05 pm
Wasn't the way we get crafting skill points supposed to change?  I thought it was one of the top 5 things people wanted changed in the poll chadz made asking everyone what they wanted in the patch.  Perhaps they couldn't fit it in this time but I sure hope they change it soon. 

It's frustrating to feel like I have to wear the gear I want to craft in Strategus constantly in cRPG for fear of getting the message when I switch to something that would help me in cRPG more but would be too expensive for me to craft in Strat.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Keshian on November 30, 2011, 05:24:30 pm
thats correct, but its been changed.
Or will be.

Not in the "patchnotes", "will be" in chadz time is a mind boggling time to consider.  As yet - never have gotten the message.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: dodnet on November 30, 2011, 05:26:05 pm
Its total random. I played for 2 or 3 gens without getting it. Then one day I had it with my default gear. The day after I had it again when I was using my Courser for the first and only time ever - which made my Rouncey decrease in skill again :|
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Vibe on November 30, 2011, 05:30:38 pm
I get it all the time lol

Name   Skill   Discount   Cost
Lordly Mail Gauntlets   27   58.00%   39
Masterwork German Greatsword   27   58.00%   256
Mail Chausses   21   55.15%   24
Lordly Studded Leather over Mail   15   51.56%   144
Onion Top Bascinet   15   51.56%   75
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Beat on November 30, 2011, 06:21:53 pm
That's some impressive crafting skills on rather expensive armor.  This is what these would cost for one hour of successful crafting each:

Name   Skill   Discount   Cost
Lordly Mail Gauntlets   27   58.00%   39                                           1053g
Masterwork German Greatsword   27   58.00%   256                       6912g
Mail Chausses   21   55.15%   24                                                        504g
Lordly Studded Leather over Mail   15   51.56%   144                      2160g
Onion Top Bascinet   15   51.56%   75                                              1125g

                                                                                      Total:         11754g

That's for 27 guys with fancy gloves and 2 hand swords.  Only 15 of them are wearing chest armor and a helmet.

If that works for you in Strategus, that is awesome but I (and perhaps a lot of other people) would never be able to afford to equip an army like this unless this Strat lasts a year or more.  This is precisely why I have been wearing cheap gear for over a generation; to get affordable crafting skills in gear that I can reasonably equip a decent sized warband.  I would love to be able to wear better gear in cRPG but I don't want to lose all the progress I have made.

The system should be changed so that we can choose which gear to specialize crafting in Strat and still be able to wear what we want in cRPG without the fear of screwing up "All thine hard work".
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 30, 2011, 06:29:04 pm
I personally like the way it is now.  I don't think you should get to pick and choose what you are able to craft in strategus without any stipulations.  What equipment you use in c-rpg should give you benefits to crafting in strategus (for that equipment).  If you want to get bonuses to cheaper gear in strat, you wear that gear in c-rpg.  seems logical to me.

From my experience the more equipment I leave the same and spawn with the more likely I am to get the message.  When you change out items it delays the message (not sure the specifics).  For every gear you have on you when you get the message, you get  3 quality (which means you can craft 3 at a time).  For every time you get the message and you're not wearing an item that was previously on the list, those items will lose 1 quality, the items you have in your build will get 3 added to it.  So you could potentially have lots of items, I can't check right now, but I have mail shirt, heraldic mail with surcoat, long war axe, knightly arming sword, elite cav shield, knightly heater shield, mail chausses, black boots, wisby gauntlets, mail gloves, courser, heavy lance, great helmet, and some nordic helmet all at varying levels of quality. 
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: buba on November 30, 2011, 06:33:21 pm
Current system works, sort of.
But its far from perfect like all you guys know.
I love the fact that certain clans get to use their signature equipment in strat for cheaper then some one else.
I hope that with whatever change the devs make in the future, that atleast will be saved.

I do not have a clear solution atm, but maybe a quick fix for the time beeing could be to prefent getting the msg at low lvl, and up the chance you get the msg after lvl 25 or so.
Getting it for the saved gear setup sounds nice, but what would prefent people to change their equipment before each round?
Say get a rouncy in your saved equipment slot,  but always be on foot, or us a more expensive horse on puplic servers.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 30, 2011, 06:44:06 pm
Current system works, sort of.
But its far from perfect like all you guys know.
I love the fact that certain clans get to use their signature equipment in strat for cheaper then some one else.
I hope that with whatever change the devs make in the future, that atleast will be saved.

I do not have a clear solution atm, but maybe a quick fix for the time beeing could be to prefent getting the msg at low lvl, and up the chance you get the msg after lvl 25 or so.
Getting it for the saved gear setup sounds nice, but what would prefent people to change their equipment before each round?
Say get a rouncy in your saved equipment slot,  but always be on foot, or us a more expensive horse on puplic servers.

It's not just what is in your saved gear, from what I can tell it goes by what equipment you spawn with every round.  I almost never play with my saved gear setup, I'm usually changing something.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: buba on November 30, 2011, 06:48:28 pm
Thats true, you only get a bump with crafting with the gear you are currently using.
Even if you spawned with a horse, but it died halfway trew and then you get the msg, you will not get a skill increase.

What i said was more of a suggestion, or idea of how to deal with the current problems with crafting in strat.
Sorry if i was not clear enough ;)
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Beat on November 30, 2011, 06:51:45 pm
That has not been my experience, CrazyCracka420.

I equipped a worn robe, cudgel and stones for ONE ROUND as a joke and I got the message.  I can now craft these items in strat for 1g each but I can buy them from any fief for less than that.  I guess there is a 1g minimum price on crafting gear.  Lucky me.

I understand your point and that of buba, but it discourages people from trying out new gear or just equipping things for fun sometimes.  It can also get old using the same gear all the time when playing cRPG.  And what about the issue of broken shields, dead horses and unsheathable items (and perhaps expended ammo?)that are dropped before you get the message?
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Skysong on November 30, 2011, 06:52:28 pm
I was in an empty server once (should be EU 4 or 2) swinging my sword around to check input lag and got the message.  :twisted:
 
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Beat on November 30, 2011, 06:54:24 pm
I got it on a duel server once.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: dodnet on November 30, 2011, 07:32:18 pm
From my experience the more equipment I leave the same and spawn with the more likely I am to get the message.  When you change out items it delays the message (not sure the specifics).

Definatly not. I have almost the same gear since a few gens now (only changed weapons) and I only got it at my first or second gen and again when I switched to cav 2 or 3 gens later. Both times I got it during my last gen it was one or two minutes after start of round when nothing had happened yet.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 30, 2011, 11:17:38 pm
Definatly not. I have almost the same gear since a few gens now (only changed weapons) and I only got it at my first or second gen and again when I switched to cav 2 or 3 gens later. Both times I got it during my last gen it was one or two minutes after start of round when nothing had happened yet.

You must be doing something wrong then, because I've gotten the message at least 10 times in my current gen (about 400k from lvl 31)
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Slamz on November 30, 2011, 11:52:12 pm
You must be doing something wrong then, because I've gotten the message at least 10 times in my current gen (about 400k from lvl 31)

Do you switch gear often?

I feel like I see it most often after making a fairly big gear swap but that could just be coincidence.

Here's my full, current list:
(click to show/hide)

So I do get it a lot but I can see no definite trend towards "doing something wrong" vs "doing something right" to spark the message.  If you think you are "doing something right" then what might that be?
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Turboflex on December 01, 2011, 05:20:38 pm
I don't think switching gear matters, it really seems to be super random. I wear the same gear, and put most of it on at an early level (my light armour setup is difficulty 7-8) and I seem to be lucky to get the crafting message once per gen.

I kind of like the system where you craft the stuff you wear in CRPG. It gives people incentive to wear more cost effective gear in CRPG that's viable in strategus instead of crutching on luxury armour, and it raises pretty slowly so some clans have built up impressive specializations in signature gear. What I really dislike the random timing of gains which give some lucky people multiple times per day while others go whole gens without a single skill up, and if you put on some alternate equipment you have to pray you don't get your skill up then.

My idea:
I think you should be able to set an item for each slot (a duplicate of the screen where we save our default gear) that you are learning to craft, and only when you are wearing the gear you have saved you acquire skill in it. So if you have an axe set to gain skill but equip a sword in CRPG you gain no skill, when you switch back to that axe you gain skill again. So you if you want to fool around with some other gear you don't lose progress for your craft items, but you don't gain any either. Item crafting levels could be tied to XP gain, and should display how much exp to crafting level up. If you switch out your saved item just before a level gain you wouldn't get it for the new item, it would be back at zero.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Beat on December 01, 2011, 07:25:48 pm
I really like some of those ideas, Tuboflex.  Hopefully the devs are watching this thread.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Hobb on December 01, 2011, 07:56:14 pm
idk, non cav being able to craft horses cheap doesnt sound like a good idea.. gttn to put a rouncey in ur slot without using one?
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 01, 2011, 08:10:53 pm
Do you switch gear often?

I feel like I see it most often after making a fairly big gear swap but that could just be coincidence.

Here's my full, current list:
(click to show/hide)

So I do get it a lot but I can see no definite trend towards "doing something wrong" vs "doing something right" to spark the message.  If you think you are "doing something right" then what might that be?

Well Bred Courser    14    50.86%   390
Heavy Lance    14    50.86%   191
Heraldic Mail with Surcoat    9    46.56%   129
Mail Chausses    9    46.56%   28
Knightly Arming Sword    9    46.56%   192
Elite Cavalry Shield    9    46.56%   82
Nordic Footman Helmet    9    46.56%   27
Mail Shirt    9    46.56%   107
Mail Mittens    9    46.56%   26
Black Greaves    6    42.93%   106
Iron War Axe    6    42.93%   119
Great Helmet    5    41.39%   158
Wisby Gauntlets    3    37.37%   95
Knightly Heater Shield    2    34.46%   114

I also don't play nearly as much as a lot of people.  I seem to get the message when I leave most of my gear the same (I usually switch some things out once in a while).  That's the only rhyme or reason I can think of is the longer you use the same gear and the less variation you have, the more I seem to get the message. 

When I say doing it wrong vs right, I would say doing it right (as far as I can tell) is to leave most o f your gear the same every time you spawn.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Aseldo on December 01, 2011, 08:14:19 pm
I really don't understand it at all. My gen before this one I got the message at least 6 times but my current gen I haven't seen it once. It's making me extremely frustrated :\
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 01, 2011, 08:18:08 pm
I really don't understand it at all. My gen before this one I got the message at least 6 times but my current gen I haven't seen it once. It's making me extremely frustrated :\

Not very helpful for us to figure out what circumstances create the message.  Do you always use the same equipment?  Do you swap any or all of it out once in a while (or frequently)?  Anything you're doing different?
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Mechanix on December 01, 2011, 08:20:35 pm
My idea:
I think you should be able to set an item for each slot (a duplicate of the screen where we save our default gear) that you are learning to craft, and only when you are wearing the gear you have saved you acquire skill in it. So if you have an axe set to gain skill but equip a sword in CRPG you gain no skill, when you switch back to that axe you gain skill again. So you if you want to fool around with some other gear you don't lose progress for your craft items, but you don't gain any either. Item crafting levels could be tied to XP gain, and should display how much exp to crafting level up. If you switch out your saved item just before a level gain you wouldn't get it for the new item, it would be back at zero.

I really like this idea!
As someone who often switches between my real armor, which is only 30k worth of gear (not crutch worthy) and my fool around armor to make gold.. I rarely get the text, I've gotten it once this gen and I'm now level 30..
The one time I did get it, I was level 18 in a blue tunic and a deli cap. It's quite frustrating when you don't get it when it's even possible to equip the armor you want the text for.
I just hate the idea of dropping skill because I can't even wear the items I want due to the horrid timing of the text.

This idea would fix a lot of players frustration, including mine.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Hobb on December 01, 2011, 08:21:49 pm
Not very helpful for us to figure out what circumstances create the message.  Do you always use the same equipment?  Do you swap any or all of it out once in a while (or frequently)?  Anything you're doing different?

ive got the message wearing the same helmet, body armor and leg armor like 25+ times.... never got message less than 3 times a gen.. also never played any past lvl 30 (always retire rite away)
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Hobb on December 01, 2011, 08:27:44 pm
I really like this idea!
As someone who often switches between my real armor, which is only 30k worth of gear (not crutch worthy) and my fool around armor to make gold.. I rarely get the text, I've gotten it once this gen and I'm now level 30..
The one time I did get it, I was level 18 in a blue tunic and a deli cap. It's quite frustrating when you don't get it when it's even possible to equip the armor you want the text for.
I just hate the idea of dropping skill because I can't even wear the items I want due to the horrid timing of the text.

This idea would fix a lot of players frustration, including mine.

thats not the problem.. ive spent like 6 gens with the same armor and still can only make my lordly heraldic mail with tabard for 100 gold... i gt the message all the time

point being, either message needs to b more often, or the discount needs to b higher
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Turboflex on December 01, 2011, 08:30:01 pm
idk, non cav being able to craft horses cheap doesnt sound like a good idea.. gttn to put a rouncey in ur slot without using one?

You could put it in your horse slot but you wouldn't gain skill up exp unless you actually had it equipped in CRPG and using it (so basically paying maintanance in CRPG + in your skill gain slot on website = gains).
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Hobb on December 01, 2011, 08:41:38 pm
You could put it in your horse slot but you wouldn't gain skill up exp unless you actually had it equipped in CRPG and using it (so basically paying maintanance in CRPG + in your skill gain slot on website = gains).

ahh kk i gotcha, good idea
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 01, 2011, 09:06:24 pm
thats not the problem.. ive spent like 6 gens with the same armor and still can only make my lordly heraldic mail with tabard for 100 gold... i gt the message all the time

point being, either message needs to b more often, or the discount needs to b higher

I still think Turboflex's idea is the most ideal (with Mechanix's suggestion).  And I think crafting at 40-60% off items is a good bonus for getting the chadztext, I think the price of goods is about twice as high as they should be.  I think discussions are in the works for reducing item costs by half (or some).
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Hobb on December 01, 2011, 09:18:00 pm
I still think Turboflex's idea is the most ideal (with Mechanix's suggestion).  And I think crafting at 40-60% off items is a good bonus for getting the chadztext, I think the price of goods is about twice as high as they should be.  I think discussions are in the works for reducing item costs by half (or some).

no, if u half the good price of a heraldic mail with tabard base price of 254 per
it is now at a base price of 127
as of rite now if a crafted them with base price of 127 instead of 254 wit a 65% discount (wat i have now) i would gt them for like 48 gold
which is good, but ive put 4 gens into my +3 (6 total, but only 4 with +3)
as compared to a higher disocunt price which only benfits peoplewho actually place crpg enought to get message something like add 25 to 50 % discount bonus which will still equal close to 68 gold for me, bt people who haveent been using the armor cant just buy it for a base price of 127

why reward those who dont play crpg?
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Slamz on December 01, 2011, 10:20:59 pm
It's funny -- been trying to get more points on a mid-level helmet and boots for ages.

Went to the duel server and temporarily swapped in my heaviest helm and boots and got the message literally 60 seconds later.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Lepintoi on December 01, 2011, 11:14:14 pm
i have had it alot... i have 48 skill in Kettle helmet and 45 in medium wooden ladder, last gen i had it 4 times this gen 0...
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: dodnet on December 02, 2011, 08:35:12 am
i have had it alot... i have 48 skill in Kettle helmet and 45 in medium wooden ladder

WTF! Max I have is 9. Also my skill in Light Kuyak would be higher if I didn't heirloom it. It's bad design that you lose your skill when you improve (heirloom) your stuff.

Do you play battle or siege? I believe you have much better chances when playing siege, as you respawn constantly where in battle if you die, your chance for getting it is over - which really sucks.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Lepintoi on December 02, 2011, 09:02:05 am
I only play siege...
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Slamz on December 02, 2011, 10:41:38 am
Yeah siege may be better.  Even if you're on defense you're only dead for 30 seconds at a time, versus what could easily be 3+ minutes on Battle.
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: dodnet on December 02, 2011, 11:13:22 am
So there should be a change about that. I rarely play siege and it's a huge disadvantage here, esp. if you die often and early in battle (which I am good at  :mrgreen:).
Title: Re: 'All thine hard work...' message
Post by: Prinz_Karl on December 04, 2011, 12:55:02 am
I just got the message when I changed to 1k gear for few rounds and the other time when I all my gear was damaged and 95%of the time I played with pretty nice gear that I would love to craft. Maybe they are even kidding us because I'm getting that message often when I'm playing with my alts. My suggestion is that it should be changed that there is not a big distance of luck and bad luck.