cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: Digglez on November 01, 2011, 04:32:11 am

Title: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Digglez on November 01, 2011, 04:32:11 am
Kinda ridiculous that archers can hold bow indefinitely.  5-7 seconds should be maximum really
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Cup1d on November 01, 2011, 09:30:53 am
what do you know about archery mate?
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: _Sebastian_ on November 01, 2011, 12:02:25 pm
Kinda ridiculous that archers can hold bow indefinitely.  5-7 seconds should be maximum really
Yea... but then you should be able to shot accurate for 5-7 seconds.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Arrowblood on November 01, 2011, 12:11:30 pm
i can hold my bow only a few seconds AND can be accurate in RL
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Paul on November 01, 2011, 12:38:10 pm
It's unfair that archers shoot arrows with metal tips.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Lactating Vegetables on November 01, 2011, 08:45:38 pm
its unfair that archers even shoot arrows

i mean its not like they were ment to do anything other stand there and look cool  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Digglez on November 01, 2011, 10:41:40 pm
these are not modern bows with pulley lock systems, they are steer arm strength bows, holding them longer than 5-10 seconds would basically ruin your accuracy for several minutes. 

Heres how muscles work for you people that have no clue of human anatomy (keep in mind Randy Couture is probably the best fit 50 year old in the world)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDtOo9hyjNc&feature=related


I like how devs have to get sarcastic remarks to suggestions to improve their game.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Bulzur on November 01, 2011, 11:39:06 pm
Agreed.


I wouldn't mind, as an archer, a limit of (for example) 7 seconds of hold. Longer than this, and the archer actually looses his arrow, and gets stuned (like a kick animation), cause his fingers couldn't handle it. Let's even add a 1dmg to self when that happens.


Anyway, i rarely see archer holding their aim for more than 7 seconds. Except the afkers, leeching, feinting to shoot.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Paul on November 02, 2011, 12:21:35 am
Ok, what about we limit holding time to 7 seconds but in return keep max accuracy till the end?


it would be a super buff especially for longbow archers

Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 02, 2011, 12:25:13 am
Ok, what about we limit holding time to 7 seconds but in return keep max accuracy till the end?

Sounds realistic and game breaking! I like it!

Next on the agenda, realistic one shotting horse bump damage.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Leshma on November 02, 2011, 12:30:03 am
Kinda ridiculous that archers can hold bow indefinitely.  5-7 seconds should be maximum really

Kinda ridiculous that pikemen can stab 60 mph but that's how things are. Taking away that feature would be too much of a nerf for archery imho.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Digglez on November 02, 2011, 12:31:46 am
ideally, holdtime should be a function of the bow's dmg

higher bow dmg = higher string tension = more force required to pullback/hold = faster/greater muscle fatigue

I hate archers and even though the degrading accuracy was kinda weird or silly system.  I'd be fine if they can only hold for x seconds.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Miracle on November 02, 2011, 04:18:23 am
Well in that case...Feinting constantly and spamming should induce muscle fatigue so you can't block.  Also applies to putting shield up and down constantly.  Also let's not forget great/long mauls spamming overheads constantly.  And if a horse runs into a rock at full speed it should throw the rider off.  And what Tears said about the one shot bump kills.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Bobthehero on November 02, 2011, 08:36:34 am
But you can feint for a long time if you're trained... far longer in fact than the duration of a cRPG round.

Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Xant on November 02, 2011, 08:59:12 am
Well in that case...Feinting constantly and spamming should induce muscle fatigue so you can't block.  Also applies to putting shield up and down constantly.  Also let's not forget great/long mauls spamming overheads constantly.  And if a horse runs into a rock at full speed it should throw the rider off.  And what Tears said about the one shot bump kills.

let's not forget that we're not playing as your IRL version in c-RPG, we're playing HOT sexy fit WARRIORS who won't tire just by swinging a couple kg weighting sword a couple of times
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Oberyn on November 02, 2011, 09:24:05 am
Who holds their shot for more than 7 seconds anyways? Only morons who try and shotgun with their bow. Theres no advantage to holding shot for that long otherwise. Not sure how this is a nerf.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Vibe on November 02, 2011, 10:18:10 am
BUFF ARCHERS
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Digglez on November 02, 2011, 11:38:24 am
Who holds their shot for more than 7 seconds anyways? Only morons who try and shotgun with their bow. Theres no advantage to holding shot for that long otherwise. Not sure how this is a nerf.

plenty of 'morons' kill people doing stupid shit like this on a regular basis.

People wearing ultra light armor and high athletics can still move faster than alot of characters on the battlefield.  I've seen plenty of 20 second holds, 1 well timed dodge against a melee and releasing a shotgun blast to them.  Pretty dumb game allows for those kind of tactics.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Zisa on November 02, 2011, 08:10:40 pm
plenty of 'morons' kill people doing stupid shit like this on a regular basis.

People wearing ultra light armor and high athletics can still move faster than alot of characters on the battlefield.  I've seen plenty of 20 second holds, 1 well timed dodge against a melee and releasing a shotgun blast to them.  Pretty dumb game allows for those kind of tactics.
I agree it is fucktarded.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Penitent on November 02, 2011, 10:11:25 pm
If it was realistic, the hold time would be limited (maybe up to 10 for a trained archer)  but the accuracy would still reduce in time...until the archers arms are shaking so bad that he has to release the string (controlled or uncontrolled).

So yeah..keep aim the way it is, but add a limit.  I know its "just realism" but realism like this makes the game cooler. 

Ever play the original "Thief?"  That's how the bow worked.  It was cool.  You'd hold a shot..waiting for the right moment..but eventually your character grunts "AH!" and you have to let go.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Overdriven on November 03, 2011, 01:11:56 am
If you get hit by an archer who held there shot for more than 7 seconds...you deserved to die.

Anyway...dumb suggestion. Personally I don't see it as that big of an issue to spend time finding a fix.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Zisa on November 03, 2011, 07:36:28 am
If you get hit by an archer who held there shot for more than 7 seconds...you deserved to die.

Anyway...dumb suggestion. Personally I don't see it as that big of an issue to spend time finding a fix.
Spending the time to fix? Are you new or something?
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on November 03, 2011, 08:47:30 am
Ok, what about we limit holding time to 7 seconds but in return keep max accuracy till the end?


Maybe not to the end, but raising the accuracy a bit would be cool.

Make it something like 7 seconds maximum hold, but 3 seconds of accuracy. At the moment you have hardly 1 second at all^^


BUT! If you implement something like that than we need it for crossbows as well! Talking about realism only about archery, as always.
A person can't hold a crossbow for a fucking minute or more than 10 seconds before his arms get heavy and he starts trembling. These things are damn heavy. Even with modern rifles it's the same. You can't hold a rifle accurate and still for long, if you shoot standing.

So if we get this max 7 seconds or whatever for bows we should have something similar for xbows, maybe 10 seconds or something. Otherwise this idea is one of the 10000 suggestions to unbalance the game, because something doesn't like archery :rolleyes:


But don't make it a stun after the time. The archer/crossbowguy should just put his arms down and then aim again when you click. Having a stun would really suck, especially when someone is coming for you. AND a stun would be totally unrealistic^^
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: _Sebastian_ on November 03, 2011, 01:16:22 pm
I just want that PowerDraw increases the aimtime again.

At the moment it seems that PD decreases wpf when PD is over 5. (lower aimtime, lower accuracy and It takes longer to draw the bow)
I have 10PD and 150wpf at the moment and I need 4-5 sec to draw my mw-longbow and then I only have 0.5 sec to shot accurate.

Please devs change PD back like it was before, because its unfair the way it is.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Bulzur on November 03, 2011, 02:59:55 pm
I just want that PowerDraw increases the aimtime again.

At the moment it seems that PD decreases wpf when PD is over 5. (lower aimtime, lower accuracy and It takes longer to draw the bow)
I have 10PD and 150wpf at the moment and I need 4-5 sec to draw my mw-longbow and then I only have 0.5 sec to shot accurate.

Please devs change PD back like it was before, because its unfair the way it is.


Ohhhhhh, poor you. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Konrax on November 03, 2011, 03:03:34 pm
By even mentioning a compound bow in this thread makes it FAIL.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Leshma on November 03, 2011, 03:07:26 pm
I just want that PowerDraw increases the aimtime again.

At the moment it seems that PD decreases wpf when PD is over 5. (lower aimtime, lower accuracy and It takes longer to draw the bow)
I have 10PD and 150wpf at the moment and I need 4-5 sec to draw my mw-longbow and then I only have 0.5 sec to shot accurate.

Please devs change PD back like it was before, because its unfair the way it is.

So, you want to deal epic damage and be super accurate at the same time? :lol:

You're lucky you're being able to hit anything, thanks to free WPF. Builds like yours are lulz builds and should be useless but unfortunately STR builds are too powerful atm so you're doing fine.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: _Sebastian_ on November 03, 2011, 04:56:35 pm
So, you want to deal epic damage and be super accurate at the same time? :lol:

What would you say if this happens to power strike?
So PS over 5 would lower your wpf... is this fair?

No?

So why is it fair on PD?
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Oberyn on November 03, 2011, 05:13:35 pm
Because melee builds don't have the ability to hit people from across the map with 30 fucking pierce damage. That's on average for archers apparently, if you're a strength archer build you probably do much more than 30 pierce per hit. That's better than most high tier melee weaps.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

As depicted on this pic, red is archer effectiveness, green is melee. And I'm being extremely generous with the archer effectiveness radius, this is only if you fucking suck. So in conclusion, fuck you. Fuck you so hard.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 03, 2011, 05:20:28 pm
So many delicious tears.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Leshma on November 03, 2011, 06:08:16 pm
What would you say if this happens to power strike?
So PS over 5 would lower your wpf... is this fair?

No?

So why is it fair on PD?

First of all, archery in general isn't fair.

Second, it's stupid feature I agree. Simple removal of free wpf and buff to WM would make it completely uneccesary.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Laufknoten on November 03, 2011, 06:43:24 pm
I have 10PD and 150wpf at the moment and I need 4-5 sec to draw my mw-longbow and then I only have 0.5 sec to shot accurate.
lol you wanker, maybe you're not a sniper with that build, but you deal a rediculous amount of damage.  :lol:
I'm okay with the damage I deal with 5 pd, a horn bow and tatar arrows. IMO it's okay that I can't really harm plate, because it's quite effective against light and even medium armor and you have a good accuracy. 
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: _Sebastian_ on November 03, 2011, 08:06:56 pm
lol you wanker, maybe you're not a sniper with that build, but you deal a rediculous amount of damage.  :lol:
102 pierce isn't that much  :P
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 04, 2011, 05:17:17 am
Mw longbow plus mw bods are 38 damage, a powerdraw of ten is a 140% bonus so that should be 91.2 not 102.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Wookimonsta on November 04, 2011, 10:28:01 am
oh shit, stamina discussion. its been a while since the last one
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: _Sebastian_ on November 04, 2011, 11:09:01 am
Mw longbow plus mw bods are 38 damage, a powerdraw of ten is a 140% bonus so that should be 91.2 not 102.
No.
This is the damage calculation for archery(thx to Paul).
Code: [Select]
raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0(33 + 4) * (150 * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (10 * 0.14 + 1) + 30 / 5.0 = 101.46 pierce
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 04, 2011, 11:18:15 am
Oh I never remember to count wpf gah... Even in my guide and I still forget it.

Thank you for reminding me  :oops:
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Paul on November 04, 2011, 11:41:44 am
well, wpf is lowered with PD as far as I know. heavily with 10 PD. too lazy to check code tho.
Title: Re: Indefiinite bow hold?
Post by: Jarlek on November 04, 2011, 04:11:46 pm
No.
This is the damage calculation for archery(thx to Paul).
Code: [Select]
raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0(33 + 4) * (150 * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (10 * 0.14 + 1) + 30 / 5.0 = 101.46 pierce
Add it to the wiki, please. With some more info around it if you'd mind.