cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 11:18:14 am

Title: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 11:18:14 am

 - remove ladders from battle servers

    Why ? Cause battles look retarded these days, a bunch of roof-hugging monkeys climbing their beloved rooftops and then destroying the ladders so infantry that would otherwise     flank them and pick their brains out (what little of it they have) simply cant reach them, also often the same shitheads stand on the air-ladders (against all gravity and physics rules) and shoot people from there, i mean seriously what the hell ?

 - make all roofs unreachable (so you cant even jump on them without the ladders)

   Why ? Same shit as paragraph one, too many incompetent morons getting easy kills (on the infantry fighting below) from hardly reachable places, prolonging the rounds, making "battles" look retarded, etc.....

 - remove unbalanced maps and rework the spawn points on mostly all of 'em

 Too many of 'em, castles, villages on hills that you shouldn't be able to walk on without some alpinistic equipment, some where one team is spawned out in the open so they serve as practice dummies for the archers inside the village, etc

  - add some more open maps (like 50% villages and 50% plains or something) so we get different kinds of battles, not only archery tournaments.....as it is now - all of the maps are perfectly suited for ranged units and most of them are not suited for other classes.....more open maps = more sticking together = more teamwork = less bundle of stickss camping in some corners and sniping people from there

 - make running away and making someone run after you for a couple of minutes across the whole map a banable offence, i mean i really dont mind archers sacrifying their melee weapon for additional stack of arrows but dont fucking run away when we come to kill you, if its your turn to die then stand still and die like a man....taking advantage of your high athletics and making us run around like retards makes no sense whatsoever, if you wanna play like that then youre in the wrong place....some say its "tactic" but its bullshit, its prolonging the round same as youre the last man standing, one competent man can kill dozen of such my old friends but not if they keep running away....you waste our time that we could use to kill your teammates....backpedaling and taking cover to reload your xbow is one thing but running away like a spineless piece of shit without even trying to fight in melee is just.....crap.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Tai Feng on February 04, 2011, 12:23:02 pm
some say its "tactic" but its bullshit

It's great guerrilla tactic. You're slow in plate, with a shield, and they're agile.


In words of great Chinese man, the renowned Sun Tzu:

Hence the skillful fighter puts himself into
    a position which makes defeat impossible, and does
    not miss the moment for defeating the enemy.

 Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist
    only seeks battle after the victory has been won,
    whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights
    and afterwards looks for victory.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Blondin on February 04, 2011, 12:26:36 pm
Ladders cost upkeep? I never saw any repair on my ladders, are you sure?
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Tai Feng on February 04, 2011, 12:38:30 pm
I have all on autorepair, I wasn't aware there's an exception. Perhaps it is because you immediately use them? Perhaps you pay upkeep for what is on you, and if you use ladders right away upkeep chance is really low? Either way my comment was wrong then.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Vexus on February 04, 2011, 12:41:40 pm
No ladders, siege shield, construction materials,ecc don't seem to have an upkeep.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 12:49:16 pm
No ladders, siege shield, construction materials,ecc don't seem to have an upkeep.

Even worse. People spam that useless crap all over the map for free. We are playing "BATTLEs" here, not sieges, raids or whatever other mod there can be. Battles on battle servers. Not roof-camping archery tournaments and shit like that. If these things cant be corrected then they should just rename the servers and sticky it to the forum so we can go play something else.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: EponiCo on February 04, 2011, 12:53:15 pm
Yep, running is tactic. It's not less cowardly than say hiding behind a giant shield when you are not hiding behind the entire team.
But as far as the last man standing is concerned - show a text warning when one team has been reduced to a last member.
The player can choose to fight or to suicide, but if he delays for more than one minute by whatever means (horse, running, turtling, hiding) for a few pointless extra kills (i.e. doesn't win) he gets xp and gold penalty.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 04, 2011, 12:59:56 pm
You're prolonging the round by not lowering your shield and get shot by the archer.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 01:11:57 pm
You're prolonging the round by not lowering your shield and get shot by the archer.

I agree. This is how a battle on cRPG should look like: we all spawn on some of the numerous shitty maps that we have atm, archers (who make at least 50% of each team) just climb the nearest roof/hill/whatever and start shooting at each other, shieldless melees (and ALL are shieldless since shield is considered time wasting and thus bannable) who stay downstairs get killed first so only archers stay alive and shoot each other until the last man goes down. The team with more accurate archers wins in less then 2 minutes. Nice and swift.  :wink:
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Tai Feng on February 04, 2011, 01:19:14 pm
But as far as the last man standing is concerned - show a text warning when one team has been reduced to a last member.
The player can choose to fight or to suicide, but if he delays for more than one minute by whatever means (horse, running, turtling, hiding) for a few pointless extra kills (i.e. doesn't win) he gets xp and gold penalty.

No.

Prolonging is a valid tactic. Perhaps to trick enemy into being careless and killing them individually while they're spread over the map.
Either way, there is Master of the Field. Unless the person is on the roof no one can get to, or is obviously leeching, last man should do whatever he wants.

I'm saying this because I've seen various situations where this has been abused "oh you're last man, suicide" even though that last man can kill more people. For example, I was once vote kicked off the server because as a last man I refused to climb the steep slow ladder to a roof which was camped by some enemy players who refused to go down even though they had numerical advantage.

Quote from: Gnjus
who stay downstairs get killed first so only archers stay alive

These melee, including yourself, refuse to take any ranged weapon right now because it slows you down, costs wpf/points and costs upkeep. Not being able to participate in ranged combat is thus the price you pay, just as an archer who takes no melee weapon. If you take light crossbow without wpf you have a good chance of killing some of the people on these roofs, and if not, there's always Master of the Field. I've urged my team to wait for MotF many times and it won us battles easily, even when there were 3x more enemies left than us. It's a tactic.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 04, 2011, 01:21:02 pm
Roof camping in unreachable places or unreasonably hard to reach places is already kickable.
I was referring to your complaint about archers running away from you. Big deal, play a faster character.

And making roofs unreachable would be boring, would just lead to Team A runs toward Team B every round, no interesting flanking possibilities.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 01:37:56 pm
Roof camping in unreachable places or unreasonably hard to reach places is already kickable.
I was referring to your complaint about archers running away from you. Big deal, play a faster character.

And making roofs unreachable would be boring, would just lead to Team A runs toward Team B every round, no interesting flanking possibilities.

You've just said it all.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 01:40:50 pm
No.

Prolonging is a valid tactic.
Perhaps to trick enemy into being careless and killing them individually while they're spread over the map.
Either way, there is Master of the Field. Unless the person is on the roof no one can get to, or is obviously leeching, last man should do whatever he wants.

I'm saying this because I've seen various situations where this has been abused "oh you're last man, suicide" even though that last man can kill more people. For example, I was once vote kicked off the server because as a last man I refused to climb the steep slow ladder to a roof which was camped by some enemy players who refused to go down even though they had numerical advantage.

These melee, including yourself, refuse to take any ranged weapon right now because it slows you down, costs wpf/points and costs upkeep. Not being able to participate in ranged combat is thus the price you pay, just as an archer who takes no melee weapon. If you take light crossbow without wpf you have a good chance of killing some of the people on these roofs, and if not, there's always Master of the Field. I've urged my team to wait for MotF many times and it won us battles easily, even when there were 3x more enemies left than us. It's a tactic.

I've bolded out the key parts for you. Try reading it with understanding before you post such things again.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: EponiCo on February 04, 2011, 01:44:37 pm
No.

Prolonging is a valid tactic. Perhaps to trick enemy into being careless and killing them individually while they're spread over the map.
Either way, there is Master of the Field. Unless the person is on the roof no one can get to, or is obviously leeching, last man should do whatever he wants.

I'm saying this because I've seen various situations where this has been abused "oh you're last man, suicide" even though that last man can kill more people. For example, I was once vote kicked off the server because as a last man I refused to climb the steep slow ladder to a roof which was camped by some enemy players who refused to go down even though they had numerical advantage.

These melee, including yourself, refuse to take any ranged weapon right now because it slows you down, costs wpf/points and costs upkeep. Not being able to participate in ranged combat is thus the price you pay, just as an archer who takes no melee weapon. If you take light crossbow without wpf you have a good chance of killing some of the people on these roofs, and if not, there's always Master of the Field. I've urged my team to wait for MotF many times and it won us battles easily, even when there were 3x more enemies left than us. It's a tactic.

I know of the abuse problems. I've been archer before everyone else was, and always got polled when I was alone against 3 guys without shield. I have no problem when this is used as tactic to win the round (especially when he's on my team ofc).
But I also see a lot of people who are just delaying. As in no realistic chance to win, five people with cover, lone archer stays on roof because one or two may get bored enough to get out of it. Or cavalryman riding in save distance around pikemen group. He can kill two more? Doesn't matter when he doesn't win the round. (Admins usually count to ten before kick when they are on). But hell, yeah, it's a far better idea to spawn MotF directly next to the group when there are only 1 or 2 enemies left.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Waffle on February 04, 2011, 01:55:47 pm
so only archers stay alive and shoot each other until the last man goes down. The team with more accurate archers wins in less then 2 minutes.
you wanna play a ranged game go play CoD
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 02:01:36 pm
you wanna play a ranged game go play CoD

Is that so, Einstein ?  8-)
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Beauchamp on February 04, 2011, 02:03:12 pm
if we'd remove every good feature from the game just because some people are retarded and aren't using them correctly. how the game would look in the end? like some wow crazy shit, no thx...
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 02:06:09 pm
if we'd remove every good feature from the game just because some people are retarded and aren't using them correctly. how the game would look in the end? like some wow crazy shit, no thx...

Define good features. And don't forget: i'm talking about battle servers only, since i never play siege. Maybe i should of said it in the beginning but i think its common knowledge.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Tai Feng on February 04, 2011, 02:10:51 pm
Quote from: Gnjus
If you like to play chasing games i advice you to take your friends (presuming you have any) to some park and try it out there. Its much more healthier and fun then virtual running around after people you don't even know.

And if you like wrestling games then go wrestling. Same thing.

Quote
I've bolded out the key parts for you. Try reading it with understanding before you post such things again.

You look at the situation from a biased point of view which is: "I am in plate, with heavy shield, using 1H short weapon. I am the honorable Paladin that seeks duels 1 on 1 and everything that exploits my weakness is not allowed." I've seen it in other games too, and it reminds me of "Wammo", a Warrior/Monk class from Guild Wars.

I mean, when I go polearm without the shield I could say the same: "Hey dear archers, stop shooting at me, it's not fair. Take out your melee weapon and wait for me."

Or when two-handers others run into you they could say: "Lower your shield so we can have a fair battle". Would you do that? Do you do that? Of course not.



You want someone else to abandon the advantage his build gives to him, only because in your mind there is purely arbitrary classification of his playstyle being "dishonorable". Just as crossbows in medieval Europe, which were not allowed to be used against other Christians, simply because knights in shiny armor did not like the idea of counter-weapon.

Quote
Define good features.

Those that enrich the game. Archers and other ranged were part of the medieval warfare. And so were hit-and-run tactics, guerrilla warfare, hiding, ambushing, roofs etc. How strong these should be is a matter of game balance but whether they can flee or not, is arbitrary.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 02:52:39 pm

You cracked like a popcorn.

First: I'm not biased and i never wrote that archers shouldn't shoot at me. I'd say "dont write rubbish" but this is the forum so if it makes you happy....go on. You have quite a history of it.

Second: i never said archers should abandon their "advantages" (if you consider glitching, roof camping and retarded-looking ladders-in-the-air-stacking as their advantages feel free but some of us still believe this can be corrected), i said they should stop running like shitheads and trying to avoid the inevitable. Hit and run tactics ? Sure. Having no melee wep equiped ? Sure. Running away from the gank ? I dont think so. I stayed among the last people alive more then anyone around here and i never ran. Backpedaling - yes. Staying behind obstacles while i reload - yes. Waiting for the gankers on some easier-to-defend spot - yes. Trying to take down as many of 'em as you can - yes. Running away ? No. If ganking is inevitable just go with it. Prolonging the round and making 100 people spectate you running away from the fight (wether your the last man alive or not) is NOT right and it will never be, no matter your attempts to disguise it as "tactics". We are here to play a fighting game, not chasing around the villages.

Third: i replied to Khorin and Beauchamp, i didnt ask for your opinion. I believe they are intelligent enough to answer on themselves, they don't need a lawyer to answer instead of 'em. (If they do im sure they'll rather pick Ujin, i heard his good at it).

Fourth: leaving your group on skype without saying a word is a dickhead move, no matter the reasons. If you cant get along with someone you say it out loud, you dont just leave without a single word of explanation. If we cant find an agreement on something (and no, there wasnt any argument) we go split ways. This is the maximum level of discussion im gonna make with such a person, you can reply to my posts as much as you like but for me whatever you write here does not exist.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: BattalGazi on February 04, 2011, 03:09:23 pm
One of the things i liked about this game is the reachability of every rooftop which i believe to increase the dimension of the game map. So i think that ladders and rooftop reachability should stay for the next patch as it increases the reality. Although i'm a 1h + shield infantry and hate rooftop archers, i like the idea of their existence in the game.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on February 04, 2011, 03:21:45 pm
I fully agree with Gnjus.

The ladders making house roof sniper spots REDUCE the fun of the game.



All archer related tactics boil down to - get up to a roof. Who can fight them then - only (practialy) other archers.

No melee protecting archers needed. No cav being good vs. archers. Only archer v. archer.

Its silly, and reduces tactics that can be employed. Please remove it.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: zagibu on February 04, 2011, 03:30:35 pm
Just make friendly ladders indectructible, and the problem is solved. It might lead to a few people getting trapped, but it would also make sure that every archer on every rooftop can be killed by melee.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Prpavi on February 04, 2011, 03:31:30 pm
well maybe if the ladders on battle were indestructible that might help this situation
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Tai Feng on February 04, 2011, 03:33:20 pm
Ad hominems are pointless. You can put "Hell is other people" as your sig if you want though.

i never wrote that archers shouldn't shoot at me.

Of course. You only said "It's ok if archers shoot at me as long as I'm in my plate and have huscarl shield right in front of me."

But if archer wants to change his position so that he can crossfire at you with other archers, then that's bad.

Quote
Second: i never said archers should abandon their "advantages" (if you consider glitching, roof camping and retarded-looking ladders-in-the-air-stacking as their advantages feel free but some of us still believe this can be corrected), i said they should stop running like shitheads and trying to avoid the inevitable.

In other words, you want archers to abandon their advantages. You just don't like to say it so directly.

An advantage of archer is when he can take higher position for safety and higher damage. An advantage of archer is to change position so he can crossfire at infantry with other archer. An advantage of archer is to avoid melee with his light armor and athletics, just as an advantage of a horse is to outrun infantry instead of going into melee with a pikeman.

The advantage of archer *is not* shooting at plate people, especially those with huscarl shield.


In other words, you are OK with disadvantages of archers, but not ok with advantages.

Quote
I stayed among the last people alive more then anyone around here and i never ran.

Having crossbow on your back, plate, shield and 1H weapon - pretty much means you can't run.

Equip light armor, no shield. Then don't run. I'd really like to see that.

Quote
If ganking is inevitable just go with it. Prolonging the round and making 100 people spectate

We are talking about situations where ganking is not inevitable and these situations bother you.
The lone archer on the roof just doesn't happen because it results in admin kick, general poll, or is otherwise an exception.

If archer in an average game runs away from "inevitable ganking" and you don't catch him, then ganking wasn't inevitable. He probably also bought time for his team while you're chasing him - even if he doesn't kill you. In other words - tactic which resulted in you not killing anyone while running after him, while otherwise you might've killed someone. The fact that you complain about him running also means that his tactic is effective more than just mere prolonging of the round.

Quote
Third: i replied to Khorin and Beauchamp, i didnt ask for your opinion. I believe they are intelligent enough to answer on themselves

This is a forum thread not a private conversation.

Quote
Fourth: leaving your group on skype without saying a word is a dickhead move, no matter the reasons. If you cant get along with someone you say it out loud, you dont just leave without a single word of explanation. If we cant find an agreement on something (and no, there wasnt any argument) we go split ways.

There wasn't any argument, nor is there any need of it now, which is why I didn't comment on it. I'm not a huge fan of these groups, nor of ts lately, so I don't really stay in each much, if at all. I just don't have time for it. I reply to priv msgs of course or direct msgs of any kind. And yes when I say I don't have time that includes forum too where I'm going to (or should at least) lower participation as well, which I do every now and then. I do such things silently as much as possible, it is simply my way, both online and IRL.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Welcome_To_Hell on February 04, 2011, 04:53:29 pm
A Must do for the next patch or so? I think not.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: AgentQ on February 04, 2011, 05:00:34 pm
Make cav playable!!!
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Leshma on February 04, 2011, 05:22:58 pm
What's wrong with cavalry?

Few days ago I've played as cav and did pretty good considering that I'm not very good with lance.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Stormcrow on February 04, 2011, 05:33:42 pm
 Make throw wpf actually increase acuracy, not power throw. Increasing power throw should make your accuracy worse so that you need to compensate by spending wps on throwing. Thus increasing the amount of agility you need and as a result this reduces your strenth and power throw. I think that this would help balance throwing which currently seems OP but really just needs to be intertwind with agility.

Basically a player will need both agi and strength to be any good, kinda like how in archery you cant be all strentgh
and be very useful
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Stormcrow on February 04, 2011, 05:37:03 pm
Cavalry also needs some tweaking. As of right now they cant attack anyone who is paying attention(except maybe peasants). This leads to them galloping away from any potential fight trying to fing someone who is afk or has their back turned. I think horses need higher health and armour and need to be cheaper.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: hidden on February 04, 2011, 05:43:01 pm
- remove ladders from battle servers

    Why ? Cause battles look retarded these days, a bunch of roof-hugging monkeys climbing their beloved rooftops and then destroying the ladders so infantry that would otherwise     flank them and pick their brains out (what little of it they have) simply cant reach them, also often the same shitheads stand on the air-ladders (against all gravity and physics rules) and shoot people from there, i mean seriously what the hell ?

Lol I like how you call them stupid for using a tactic that makes it very difficult for you to kill them. I think they would be stupid to not climb on the roofs and let the infantry flank them. In my opinion big infantry clusterfucks with archers standing 5 feet behind shooting through the gaps looks more retarded than having archers on rooftops.

- make all roofs unreachable (so you cant even jump on them without the ladders)

   Why ? Same shit as paragraph one, too many incompetent morons getting easy kills (on the infantry fighting below) from hardly reachable places, prolonging the rounds, making "battles" look retarded, etc.....

If they are the ones getting easy kills and you are the one going the hard way about getting kills then surely it is you who is the incompetent one? After all the point of the game is to kill the enemy team as fast and as efficiently as possible so using tactics that results in "easy kills" is surely the smart thing to do. Yet you call them morons again.

- remove unbalanced maps and rework the spawn points on mostly all of 'em

 Too many of 'em, castles, villages on hills that you shouldn't be able to walk on without some alpinistic equipment, some where one team is spawned out in the open so they serve as practice dummies for the archers inside the village, etc

I agree with this I prefer fighting out in the open. I wish one of the servers would start running random generated field maps again.

- make running away and making someone run after you for a couple of minutes across the whole map a banable offence, i mean i really dont mind archers sacrifying their melee weapon for additional stack of arrows but dont fucking run away when we come to kill you, if its your turn to die then stand still and die like a man....taking advantage of your high athletics and making us run around like retards makes no sense whatsoever, if you wanna play like that then youre in the wrong place....some say its "tactic" but its bullshit, its prolonging the round same as youre the last man standing, one competent man can kill dozen of such my old friends but not if they keep running away....you waste our time that we could use to kill your teammates....backpedaling and taking cover to reload your xbow is one thing but running away like a spineless piece of shit without even trying to fight in melee is just.....crap.

First of all I agree that if someone is running away and there is no chance of their team winning then they should be kicked/banned, or even if they are just wasting time fighting pointless odds (you know like if some dickhead Xbow-sniper is hiding Behind trees/buildings/edge of map trying to fight 1vs10 every round wasting everyones time).

However if its lets say 10 vs 8 and you as an archer find yourself being chased by 5 from the enemy team, then it makes sense to lead them on a tour of the map as it allows your team of 8 guys to overwhelm and slaughter the other 5. You can then just lead the  5 guys chasing you to the rest of your team.
If a group of players choose to chase one guy who it is impossible for them to catch while the rest of their team is fighting , then it is they who are the retards as you say gnjus "making us run around like retards". So the answer to this is don't play like a retard and don't chase people you cannot catch.
(as said however If there is only like 2 guys versus 15 and one is running away then they should be kicked/banned.)

Anyway I think Gnjus post can be summed up as - QQ Admins please make the archers let me slaughter them, they keep doing things to make it hard for me to slaughter them like using the advantages of the map terrain or their build designs to make it hard. Its almost like they don't want me to kill them! they are such morons :(
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Immolarian on February 04, 2011, 05:55:42 pm
These are indeed things that would improve the game alot.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: hidden on February 04, 2011, 06:20:35 pm
Finished reading the rest of the thread.

well maybe if the ladders on battle were indestructible that might help this situation

This is a good idea but maybe instead make it so ladders can be knocked down (both by "f" key and with weapons but also be put back up again like the permanent map ladders) If they were indestructible it would lead to making glitch barricades in siege.

Also

Quote from: Gnjus
First: I'm not biased

Quote from: Gnjus
roof-hugging monkeys...... brains out (what little of it they have)........incompetent morons..........less bundle of stickss.........my old friends.............like a spineless piece of shit


lol - Yeah I cannot see either how Tai Feng thought you were biased, I mean its not like you hate them and take any opportunity to insult these players.


Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Leshma on February 04, 2011, 06:48:43 pm
Cavalry also needs some tweaking. As of right now they cant attack anyone who is paying attention(except maybe peasants). This leads to them galloping away from any potential fight trying to fing someone who is afk or has their back turned. I think horses need higher health and armour and need to be cheaper.

Killing completely aware average pikeman using Heavy Lance is perfectly posible. You just need to be very careful and use side stab.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Leshma on February 04, 2011, 07:07:49 pm
Btw a must for next patch is removal of construction materials. Even if more than one admins are on, they are preocupied with playing and aren't able to see that archers blocked the access to the roof with CM (not to mention that ladders are bugged on that map aka slow ladders). Only time when admins can see that is at the end of the map when few people stay alone with archers. Using CM to block passage isn't just against the rules, it gives archers huge advantage because they can go into 1st person mode without watching for their backs.

Actually I'm with Gnjus, I would like for construction materials, ladders and siege shield to become usable only in siege mod. It would take away some of the tactic but it will lessen the bundle of sticksry we have to deal every day. I'm sick of dealing with bundle of stickss IRL, I want my game time to be fair and clean as posible.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: POOPHAMMER on February 04, 2011, 07:16:22 pm
Cavalry also needs some tweaking. As of right now they cant attack anyone who is paying attention(except maybe peasants). This leads to them galloping away from any potential fight trying to fing someone who is afk or has their back turned. I think horses need higher health and armour and need to be cheaper.

Also make pikes cost more/break on impact or some shit. I am tired of getting piked last second, then immediately stabbed to death with the same pike after my horse goes down while struggling to get up. It is like they are made of titanium and not wood, very unrealistic and horribly cheap.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 07:26:20 pm
Lol I like how you call them stupid for using a tactic that makes it very difficult for you to kill them. I think they would be stupid to not climb on the roofs and let the infantry flank them. In my opinion big infantry clusterfucks with archers standing 5 feet behind shooting through the gaps looks more retarded than having archers on rooftops.

If they are the ones getting easy kills and you are the one going the hard way about getting kills then surely it is you who is the incompetent one? After all the point of the game is to kill the enemy team as fast and as efficiently as possible so using tactics that results in "easy kills" is surely the smart thing to do. Yet you call them morons again.

I agree with this I prefer fighting out in the open. I wish one of the servers would start running random generated field maps again.

First of all I agree that if someone is running away and there is no chance of their team winning then they should be kicked/banned, or even if they are just wasting time fighting pointless odds (you know like if some dickhead Xbow-sniper is hiding Behind trees/buildings/edge of map trying to fight 1vs10 every round wasting everyones time).

However if its lets say 10 vs 8 and you as an archer find yourself being chased by 5 from the enemy team, then it makes sense to lead them on a tour of the map as it allows your team of 8 guys to overwhelm and slaughter the other 5. You can then just lead the  5 guys chasing you to the rest of your team.
If a group of players choose to chase one guy who it is impossible for them to catch while the rest of their team is fighting , then it is they who are the retards as you say gnjus "making us run around like retards". So the answer to this is don't play like a retard and don't chase people you cannot catch.
(as said however If there is only like 2 guys versus 15 and one is running away then they should be kicked/banned.)

Anyway I think Gnjus post can be summed up as - QQ Admins please make the archers let me slaughter them, they keep doing things to make it hard for me to slaughter them like using the advantages of the map terrain or their build designs to make it hard. Its almost like they don't want me to kill them! they are such morons :(

Lol you little hidden shithead, i couldve guessed that one of you brainfarts will raise in the defense of your "tactics" and "style". Im not gonna waste my keyboard on the likes of you much, ill just point out the bolded stuff: are you really that retarded or its just a role-play ? I wasnt refering to five people chasing one archer, i was talking about one guy who must run after another. 1 on 1, not 5 on 1. Sometimes even the opposite, 1 runs and 3 or 4 flee but thats another story. I run after you, you flee....i turn my back on you, you stop and shoot at me. I turn around and run after you again and you start fleeing. 100 people or so are spectating, most (or all) of your teammates are dead or in the process of dying. Capishi ? I doubt it, your kind cant comprehend that much. So according to you i should just turn my back to a fleeing scumcher and let him shoot me ? So should the rest of the ganking squad ? Very clever, just as i expected from a dedicated archer. Next thing youll propose that i buy a crossbow or some throwing shit. And then you will votekick me for reloading it behind some obstacle. Dickhead. Equip a melee weapon, stop running away and learn to play.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: zagibu on February 04, 2011, 07:29:29 pm
Finished reading the rest of the thread.

This is a good idea but maybe instead make it so ladders can be knocked down (both by "f" key and with weapons but also be put back up again like the permanent map ladders) If they were indestructible it would lead to making glitch barricades in siege.

They don't need to be completely indestructible, just indestructible for team members of the ladderer. But your idea with the knocking down is even better, although I don't know how hard it would be to code...probably quite hard.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 07:31:37 pm
lol - Yeah I cannot see either how Tai Feng thought you were biased, I mean its not like you hate them and take any opportunity to insult these players.

Ask Vargais, Jaruna, Mustikka or Gurnisson if i ever had a bad word for them (a few more names could be added here but not much, cant remember everyone now). Not all archers are fleeing spineless cunts like yourself. Any of these people can make a difference but they still dont run for it, they know when its over.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Mullerian on February 04, 2011, 08:41:18 pm
If it helps your day, i giggled a bit at the pent up rage you seem to have. It is rather amusing to see you manage to do almost an entire post without throwing in an insult, im pretty sure i heard thats a constructive way to argue your points.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Meow on February 04, 2011, 09:35:14 pm
i agree with some stuff but i do not agree with your attitude that everything that you can not get an easy kill from should be removed...

make ladders cost upkeep when you spawn with them.
make em rather expensive so people use them wisely.

if you as the turtle guy still rage about archers just throw away your shield and die when you get tired of chasing an archer.

if he does it when he is the last one alive it's against the rules in case you have the same speed and there is no gain from running.
if it makes sense due to him being faster than you and he can get shots at you it's perfectly fine to do so.

just because you chose to play a melee does not mean everyone else should be forced to be within your axe range  :mrgreen:

now feel free to rage on :P
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 09:44:06 pm
i agree with some stuff but i do not agree with your attitude that everything that you can not get an easy kill from should be removed...

make ladders cost upkeep when you spawn with them.
make em rather expensive so people use them wisely.

if you as the turtle guy still rage about archers just throw away your shield and die when you get tired of chasing an archer.

if he does it when he is the last one alive it's against the rules in case you have the same speed and there is no gain from running.
if it makes sense due to him being faster than you and he can get shots at you it's perfectly fine to do so.

just because you chose to play a melee does not mean everyone else should be forced to be within your axe range  :mrgreen:

now feel free to rage on :P


I just love it how you people twist things around here. Many of you should learn to read with understanding but its not up to me to educate you. Have it your way.  8-)
Btw im not raging at all, i was just stating facts, calling stuff by their real names and making suggestions....you folks obviously never saw a rager.   :wink:
I mean seriously...."things that i cant get an easy kill on" ? If any kind of units in this game have ever been easy kills for me then it was archers, even back in the days of early beta plated machine-gun snipers. I would advise you same as the gentleman before you: try reading what i wrote again, and this time a bit slower, with more understanding.

P.S. You people are too concentrated on my "style of presenting things" while you miss the true content and meaning of what i write, you mistaken it for rage while it has nothing to do with it, tbh i do my raging off the forums.  :wink: I deliberately avoid the boring "decent" and "serious" style of writing and you hook up to it as the drunkard hooks onto the fence, while you totally miss the point of it. Ok maybe im a bit rude to archers and all that but you cant deny that im right.  :wink:
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: hidden on February 04, 2011, 10:21:38 pm
I wasnt refering to five people chasing one archer, i was talking about one guy who must run after another. 1 on 1, not 5 on 1. I run after you, you flee....i turn my back on you, you stop and shoot at me. I turn around and run after you again and you start fleeing. 100 people or so are spectating, most (or all) of your teammates are dead or in the process of dying. Capishi ?

Well gnjus that is not what you wrote in your original post, all you said was that people who run away when you go towards them should be kicked. However now that you have made yourself more clear I can tell you that what you are asking for is already done. When there is one or two players left on a team and most or all of their team are dead and they are running away like the  scenario in your post, then they do get kicked already. Also I have already said in this scenario I agree with you that they should be kicked.
Quote from: Gnjus

So according to you i should just turn my back to a fleeing scumcher and let him shoot me ? So should the rest of the ganking squad ? Very clever, just as i expected from a dedicated archer.

This tactic of attacking and running away is called skirmishing. The point being they can harrass you, but you cannot fight back. IMO its a very good tactic and judging from your rage they have been doing a good job in their roll. To answer your question - there is nothing you can do personally, so I recommend you put your shield up and lead the archer towards teamates who can do something about them (AKA not heavy infantry like yourself).

Quote from: gnjus

Next thing youll propose that i buy a crossbow or some throwing shit. And then you will votekick me for reloading it behind some obstacle.

People do not vote kick you for reloading behind cover they do it for forcing the winning team to run half-way across the map just to gank one player who is standing on a hill. A considerate player would once realising defeat would charge the enemy preferably before the last few players on there team are dead so no one has to wait pointlessly.

Quote from: Gnjus
Dickhead. Equip a melee weapon, stop running away and learn to play.

I do equip a mele weapon (heavybastard it is in my avatar ;) ) I almost never runaway from a 1-1 fight, I reckon I get at least a quarter of my kills from my sword and I enjoy manual blocking alot ( I am often to be found on the duel server).

I believe it is you who should "lern2play" my skill less shield turtle friend. After all any any dickhead noob  :lol: can

Hold RMB
wait for "clunk" noise
Tap LMB
Repeat

Maybe try archery post patch and manual blocking and get some "Skillz"

Quote from: gnjus
are you really that retarded or its just a role-play ?

I neither role-play in game or on the forums. However on the topic of being retarded and role-playing I have to ask are you role-playing an "honourable better than the peasant archer scum" knight on the forums or are you really so pathetic and nerdy to really believe people are scum/cunts/bundle of stickss based entirely on how they choose to play a video game. If its the latter then this is probably one of the saddest nerdiest things I have seen in awhile (not that the other is not also sad and nerdy :P)
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 04, 2011, 11:34:53 pm

Amazing. I'm "arguing" with a retard over internet. I recon that makes me one as well.
Thank you for your detailed answer, youve proved both of my points: first that youre a complete and utter moron who cant read, and second that you know nothing of this mod and its community.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: bruce on February 05, 2011, 01:06:23 am
Tactical play is when you play solo rambo hero on a blockaded rooftop, and not when you're for instance protected by your teammates and stuff.

Nice to know.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Welcome_To_Hell on February 05, 2011, 01:08:42 am
I just love it how you people twist things around here. Many of you should learn to read with understanding but its not up to me to educate you.

Irony meter off the chart.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Ginosaji on February 05, 2011, 09:53:40 am
Huh, popcorn! :D

Gnjus, you're style of writing is really awesome. ^^ But please calm down, it would be very sad to lose one of the most dedicated players of this game because his head explodes.
While I totally agree with you about running and shooting archers (1 guy chases 1 archer, turns his back on him, gets shot in the back, turns, chases, turns, gets shot, ...) and I totally hate archers on a roof when the fight is almost over I don't think that all of this is much of a problem.
Archer on the run? Ignore him (carefully, so he can't shoot you in the back) or lure him into a trap. Someone else with a horse will kill him.
Archer on the run when the game is nearly over? Ignore him, he'll soon be the last guy on the map and either killed or kicked.
Last man of opposite team on the run? Poll him.

I think you take this game far too serious. In fact I think that 99% of all players do so. Players of all clans (no matter if Mercs or Templars) teamkilling because they got (accidentally) teamwounded, spampolling, GTXting, ...
For me this game is fun and always has been. No matter if my k/d-ratio is negative (I wonder why you've never insulted me because of my lack of skill :P), no matter if I get tked thrice in a row (which happened yesterday), no matter if I see my axe slicing through someones head without hitting him at all.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Gnjus on February 05, 2011, 01:12:45 pm
But please calm down,
I think you take this game far too serious.

On the contrary, my friend. I'm as calm as one can be. And i don't take this game too seriously, i rarely post on suggestion/balance/discussion forums as i find most of the things there to be useless spam, whining and crying. But these things that i mentioned here should really be addressed as soon as possible, its not about my personal preference, its about the general image of these battles, which atm is more then ridiculous. Actually you could describe these "events" with several other terms that would be closer to the truth, rather then calling 'em battles.  :wink:


(I wonder why you've never insulted me because of my lack of skill :P)

You have more skill then you think, furthermore you have the guts and the spine that many lack. I always see you in the front lines even tho maybe you should be staying behind some shields.  8-)
Also, i don't call out all of the "no-skill" players, hell even i lack skills, its not peoples fault, we cant all be the best, nor even good....some have to be "weaker" or "stronger" then the others. I only mention the chosen ones (like for instance my old friend BlueGreen the Useless, champion of Worthlessness.....im thinking about permanently equiping mail and plate which is blue, and in combination with my green shield and banner it would also make me a kind of a bluegreen....to honor him).  :wink:
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Lamix on February 05, 2011, 01:42:14 pm
Ladders need to be addressed, not for letting archers on rooftop, but because of the ladder sky building stuff and the amount of fail ladders just clipping through stuff, just make ladders no collide with each other.
I would rather see ladders taken out of bought items and 3-5dropped at each spawn, this would stop too many ladder spamming, and make them immune to friendly attack. or recode them entirely so that you can push down a ladder like you can with some of the static ones and are non destructable.

I'll agree with the running point only at the end of the round, same as roof camping, unless its a 1 on 1 battle  make it a kickable offence(but to me this is already in the rule about round delaying, just needs enforcing more)

Maps, bleh we all know we need new maps, nearly all the maps are 1 sided, and most of these are totally 1 sided like up a hill and in a village but thats because these weren't intended as multiplayer maps, most of them are maps from the villages in native singleplayer. I'm working on some brand new multiplayer balanced maps atm, just hope they will get considered to be put in when i have them done.(i intend to make hay roofs and the likes impassable, but the more sturdy ones fine.)

These are just my opinions on the topic, take em or leave em.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Teeth on February 05, 2011, 02:16:22 pm
Ladders should be replaced by stakes in battle, stakes should be deployable and undestroyable and should wound horses and slow down infantry, they provide enough safety for archers for a period of time, but it wont help them when the main body of infantry comes up.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Beauchamp on February 05, 2011, 03:45:18 pm
Define good features. And don't forget: i'm talking about battle servers only, since i never play siege. Maybe i should of said it in the beginning but i think its common knowledge.
its difficult i have no definition. but for me if it brings more possibilities or strategies than its usually a good feature. this includes ladders in battle mode (of course except for that situation when sbdy climbs high roof, destroys ladders going up and than doesn't go down when he's the last one on a map). but this doesn't happen really often, usually the last guys jumps down in the end.

what i dislike more are those bugged static ladders that take ages to climb. and people saying climb up i also did that, while he continually hits and kicks you for 30 secs from above while you make it to the top.
Title: Re: A few things that should be considered as a must-do for the next patch or so
Post by: Ginosaji on February 05, 2011, 03:49:27 pm
On the contrary, my friend. I'm as calm as one can be.

Glad to hear that. I guess swearing is your method to avoid getting a stomach ulcer then :D

But these things that i mentioned here should really be addressed as soon as possible, its not about my personal preference, its about the general image of these battles, which atm is more then ridiculous. Actually you could describe these "events" with several other terms that would be closer to the truth, rather then calling 'em battles.  :wink:

I have to agree on that. Although I have still fun playing cRPG battles became different in the last months with all these ladders and roofs.

You have more skill then you think, furthermore you have the guts and the spine that many lack. I always see you in the front lines even tho maybe you should be staying behind some shields.  8-)

Thanks for the flowers, my new char has a big round shield   :D