cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Waylit on October 13, 2011, 09:09:25 pm
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I agree with the current changes to the pike/longspear. The overhead swing on the LS had to go...but sadly it removed a great teamplay element with the long weapons attacking opposite directions. Even the best players have trouble blocking up/down/up/down/up/down over and over.
The only problem is that now you can no longer Pike Drill with a pikeman and longspearman, because the foe can just hold block down. Check out these solutions to that problem:
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/pics/pike_01.jpg
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/pics/pike_03.jpg
A line of just pikes and LS should be very deadly, and not something you just run at blocking down. This way there would be no backswing, none of that "overhead from 2 feet away" nonsense, but pikes/LS would still be able to attack Up and Down at the same time, which is what makes them a deadly teamplay combination. Don't make us fight with those smelly billmen. :mrgreen:
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Currently I see pikes as best anti-melee weapons in games. So therefore buffing them would be completely inapropriate.
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Best anti-melee? You mean worst or are you just trolling??? Wth.
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I say "nay", if you want overheads just use the slightly shorter weps.
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No thank you to the suggestion.
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Best anti-melee? You mean worst or are you just trolling??? Wth.
I mean that when you're facing multiple opponents, if one of them has a pike, spear or anything similiar no matter is he skilled or not (cause those are simplest weapons in game), winning against them suddenly becomes almost impossible task to achieve.
Pikes and spears are incredibly strong weapons in group fights, therefore shouldn't be good 1 vs 1.
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why you guys are always against Leshma , hes right , the first target i go for in a pack of fighters coming at me is the pike dude ALWAYS
because of him , i cant dance around his others friends and make my way to victory , so hes has to die !
Good Spear\Pikers ( like Waltz or Malke in NA ) make fighting groups a nightmare if they are around ,
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Fyi long spear is one of the worst weapons to have 1vs1. Also in a group you can magically fight against other weapons but not against spears? Wtf is this bs?
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Fyi long spear is one of the worst weapons to have 1vs1.
No it's not. It's decent in 1v1 situations, but supreme in group fights.
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i would rather see a cooldown time on weapon parries, so you cant magically block multiple incoming attacks....would make shields worthwhile
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With the recent nerf to the Long Spear, I do think it's less than good anymore in 1v1, though it can still be used and deadly if well used in 1v1.
But when it comes to group battles, it totally turn the tide of battle.
As I've said before, if I see 3 or even 4 guys with two handed weapons, I'll usually go fight them because I know I stand a chance.
Meanwhile, if I do the mistake of fighting 2 guys, one with a pike/longspear, I'm fucked.
I just get polestunned to the moon while I can't even reach him because of the crazy reach while his friend take swings at me in the middle of polestuns.
i would rather see a cooldown time on weapon parries, so you cant magically block multiple incoming attacks....would make shields worthwhile
You mean OP? There'd be no reason to go anything but shielder.
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Of course you have a change against 3 or 4 2handers if they're completely incompetent idiots. That example is worthless.
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Of course you have a change against 3 or 4 2handers if they're completely incompetent idiots. That example is worthless.
I'm just saying that if I was to fight those 3-4 or even only 2 of those "incompetent" guys, if one of them as a long spear or pike, my win chance drops drastically because I get polestunned to the moon and I can't even move anymore with 2-3 guys taking swings at me.
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i would rather see a cooldown time on weapon parries, so you cant magically block multiple incoming attacks....would make shields worthwhile
Worst suggestion ever. Do you know how hard it is to block multiple incoming attacks? Such behaviour should be applauded not made impossible. Long spears are fine as they are now, a fine support and anti cav weapon. Its cheap as shit so theres plenty of money left for a back up weapon. Use a bamboo spear, 200 length, 90 speed, 25p and an overhead.
And I agree, a gank squad with 3 shielders and 2 twohanders is managable, I have a chance to dish out a lot of damage before I go down. When theres a pike or long spear involved it becomes so much harder. The pike can virtually always attack you, so in between your blocking of 1 and sometimes 2 opponents you also have to continously watch for the pike.
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Ahhhh, as much as I loved and miss my time with the long spear.. No this should not happen. It is just unneeded in all honesty. A long spear shouldn't be a duel weapon.
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Honestly you shouldn't even really be able to block with the weapons, they are supposed to fill a support role.
Given their range, damage, and speed they are very formidable weapons in groups already as it is.
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Worst suggestion ever. Do you know how hard it is to block multiple incoming attacks? Such behaviour should be applauded not made impossible. Long spears are fine as they are now, a fine support and anti cav weapon. Its cheap as shit so theres plenty of money left for a back up weapon. Use a bamboo spear, 200 length, 90 speed, 25p and an overhead.
And I agree, a gank squad with 3 shielders and 2 twohanders is managable, I have a chance to dish out a lot of damage before I go down. When theres a pike or long spear involved it becomes so much harder. The pike can virtually always attack you, so in between your blocking of 1 and sometimes 2 opponents you also have to continously watch for the pike.
And even if you actually block the long spear/pike, the guy's taking stabs at you from so fucking far that you can't do anything about him and just deal with it by getting stabbed to death.
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Yeah, one pike/longspear in a group makes that group a LOT more deadly. Two? Welp, it's pretty much impossible to beat them if they have even the faintest idea what they're doing.
But they're not OP at the moment, just very very good if used as they should be.
Gotta love how Joxer still doesn't know what weapon reach is and what it does...
Also in a group you can magically fight against other weapons but not against spears? Wtf is this bs?
:lol:
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Worst suggestion ever. Do you know how hard it is to block multiple incoming attacks?
ya, you hold downblock and magically prevent any longspear/pike from being able to harm you...a trained chimp could do it. 10 spears could stab you at the same time and you take no damage, wow thats so realistic!
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Fyi long spear is one of the worst weapons to have 1vs1. Also in a group you can magically fight against other weapons but not against spears? Wtf is this bs?
Many weapons have 4 attack directions, most people are very good at connecting attacks. Also they fear of dying because that means waiting for round to end, also they don't want to TA. Thefore in battle, most people act like those assassins Ezio is figthing in AC2 or mobs in Gothic games, they attack one by one :D
But when one of them has pike, which is so easy to use (just pull mouse down and release the button) and has great length while having the fastest animation in game (yeah it has slower stats than other spears but it's still faster than anything besides spears), that dude isn't afraid anymore and fighting a group is much harder.
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Many weapons have 4 attack directions, most people are very good at connecting attacks. Also they fear of dying because that means waiting for round to end, also they don't want to TA. Thefore in battle, most people act like those assassins Ezio is figthing in AC2 or mobs in Gothic games, they attack one by one :D
But when one of them has pike, which is so easy to use (just pull mouse down and release the button) and has great length while having the fastest animation in game (yeah it has slower stats than other spears but it's still faster than anything besides spears), that dude isn't afraid anymore and fighting a group is much harder.
thats why you fake attacking one person, block the longspear, then charge the pikeman. They'll shit their pants and forget how to block, i've cleaved through groups of people because i was batshit insane in my attack pattern, never be predictable and you'll do alot better than following the same routine over and over again.
I just gotta work on being patient and not charging blindly into a melee -_-
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thats why you fake attacking one person, block the longspear, then charge the pikeman. They'll shit their pants and forget how to block, i've cleaved through groups of people because i was batshit insane in my attack pattern, never be predictable and you'll do alot better than following the same routine over and over again.
I just gotta work on being patient and not charging blindly into a melee -_-
Many of them (pikemen) in such situations hold up block and since I want him dead that's exactly what I'll do. Stab isn't that easy to pull of in such situations and swings... well I'll just say "early active attacks".
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Many of them (pikemen) in such situations hold up block and since I want him dead that's exactly what I'll do. Stab isn't that easy to pull of in such situations and swings... well I'll just say "early active attacks".
overhead is your friend.
also, learn how to chamber stabs and you'll be laughing at these pikemen all day.
also, i find that if the pikeman is a good player, i just run the other way and wait for valour :/
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Dude did you read what I write? They hold overhead block... of course I overhead all the time, I have to with 6 PS and cut damage...
And for me, chambering stabs is out of the question because of jitter (lag). I can't outstab anyone on server, let alone to chamber stabs...
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It's mostly the polestun since if you get hit by the pole (even with a bad angle hit), you're stunned for just about 2 seconds, thus rendering any sort of spacing you were trying to acquire void. It is very dumb. That is why I use the awlpike until they inevitably fix the polestun.
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Dude did you read what I write? They hold overhead block... of course I overhead all the time, I have to with 6 PS and cut damage...
And for me, chambering stabs is out of the question because of jitter (lag). I can't outstab anyone on server, let alone to chamber stabs...
switch targets if they hold upblock. Its all about killing the noobs first before you take down big men.
wait, you're an agi build? fuck that don't even try fighting in groups. You'll just get TKed (unless your with a clan). I'm a strength build so i can go into the clusterfucks
I thought i written that but apparently not
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thats why you fake attacking one person, block the longspear, then charge the pikeman. They'll shit their pants and forget how to block, i've cleaved through groups of people because i was batshit insane in my attack pattern, never be predictable and you'll do alot better than following the same routine over and over again.
I just gotta work on being patient and not charging blindly into a melee -_-
I don't know what sort of pikemen you're fighting but if they "shit their pants and forget how to block" they probably don't know how to block in the first place, any pikemen that knows how to block will probably not give a fuck about you running to them and will just block you until you get slashed in the back by someone else you were already fighting against.
overhead is your friend.
also, learn how to chamber stabs and you'll be laughing at these pikemen all day.
also, i find that if the pikeman is a good player, i just run the other way and wait for valour :/
Chambering stabs from pikes/longspears is easier said than done when you have bunch of other guys slashing at you.
For exemple, probably a hour ago, I got stuck between Jar and Dexx repeatedly poking me with their long spear one after another.
What happened was like a 20 hit long polestun because I can take a lot of hit, so I just waited for a good 20 hit to die because I couldn't move, attack or block.
Also, I'm not sure why you're trying to "teach" people how to do better when you're yourself not all that good, I remember fighting you on duel alot like a week or two probably and all you were doing was holding your overhead to cause blockstun and then try to spam (which failed miserably I might add since you were doing it almost every single hits)
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I don't know what sort of pikemen you're fighting but if they "shit their pants and forget how to block" they probably don't know how to block in the first place, any pikemen that knows how to block will probably not give a fuck about you running to them and will just block you until you get slashed in the back by someone else you were already fighting against.
Chambering stabs from pikes/longspears is easier said than done when you have bunch of other guys slashing at you.
yes, and like i said previously, i avoid group battles when theres at least 1 pikeman that can block, unless my team outnumbers the other. I am talking specifically about taking on 2 or more people and one of them have a pike.
Also, I'm not sure why you're trying to "teach" people how to do better when you're yourself not all that good, I remember fighting you on duel alot like a week or two probably and all you were doing was holding your overhead to cause blockstun and then try to spam (which failed miserably I might add since you were doing it almost every single hits)
who are you? after a while in duels, i just try to castor swing most of the time because of the mind numbing
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switch targets if they hold upblock. Its all about killing the noobs first before you take down big men.
wait, you're an agi build? fuck that don't even try fighting in groups. You'll just get TKed (unless your with a clan). I'm a strength build so i can go into the clusterfucks
I thought i written that but apparently not
.. Agi builds are the best for fighting in groups, due to athletics... if you're not fast, you'll just get circled.
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.. Agi builds are the best for fighting in groups, due to athletics... if you're not fast, you'll just get circled.
depends if there are pikes in the group or not
Vs pikes: the range neutralizes the ability for agi chars to dance in and out of combat, because the effective range of a pike is far greater than an agi hero
However, if the other group chases and abandons the pikeman behind, you just won a moral victory. Now you can play the distance game.
Strength builds, especially with the early hit register of recent patch, is really useful in a group battle if you move inbetween and get the team to hit each other while you target select people. In heavy armor and good footwork you can get a lot of weapons to glance on you.
Really, pikes are the ultimate support because it nullifies any individual acts of heroism that may turn the tide of battle. Now if they lose the ability to block, that would mean that pikemen have a giant 3 meter stick that pretty much says "kill me first". Which may not be too bad the more i think about it.
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yes, and like i said previously, i avoid group battles when theres at least 1 pikeman that can block, unless my team outnumbers the other. I am talking specifically about taking on 2 or more people and one of them have a pike.
who are you? after a while in duels, i just try to castor swing most of the time because of the mind numbing
I change my name alot, I used to go under the name of Borealis but I try to go undercover under my new name which doesn't work well since most of my friends knows who I am and possibly other people.
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I change my name alot, I used to go under the name of Borealis but I try to go undercover under my new name which doesn't work well since most of my friends knows who I am and possibly other people.
you must be one of those random no namers that fight like a Vet. God theres a lot of those nowadays.
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you must be one of those random no namers that fight like a Vet. God theres a lot of those nowadays.
What's wrong with that? It's funny to me.
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...while having the fastest animation in game (yeah it has slower stats than other spears but it's still faster than anything besides spears), that dude isn't afraid anymore and fighting a group is much harder.
You're just making shit up here. You and Xant are just pure fucking fail.
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You're just making shit up here. You and Xant are just pure fucking fail.
What?! I challenge you to a duel at dawn tomorrow..
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What's wrong with that? It's funny to me.
nothing, its just hard to tell the new people from the vets these days
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You're just making shit up here. You and Xant are just pure fucking fail.
Mediocre player, doesn't know game mechanics, try to prove a point, fail miserably.
Sounds like Joxer to me.
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Long spear sucks in group fights now, I'm noticing it hitting teammates that it never should.
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Mediocre player, doesn't know game mechanics, try to prove a point, fail miserably.
Sounds like Joxer to me.
I'm mediocre, Joxer is even worse than me :D
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+1 to OP, if speed gets nerfed
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I'm mediocre, Joxer is even worse than me :D
Leshma, you are mediocre if you have a k/ d of 1. I strongly doubt that you have a k/d of 1.
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Good k/d goesn't mean you're skilled, it means you're experienced (and a pussy) :wink:
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Good k/d goesn't mean you're skilled, it means you're experienced (and a pussy) :wink:
It does in a lot of ways. Experience doesn't give you a good k/d by definition.
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Try making a support only build and choose only a support weapon and then go around bragging around the forums with your k/d. :rolleyes:
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Try making a support only build and choose only a support weapon and then go around bragging around the forums with your k/d. :rolleyes:
Long spear is not a support only weapon, perfectly viable to use it 1v1. It's almost like you deny the idea and try to make it sound harder to use this weapon than it really is. Apart from that, an overhead stab would be mental and ridiculously overpowered.
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I don't use a long spear. Also it's the shittest weapon you can use for 1vs1.
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I don't use a long spear. Also it's the shittest weapon you can use for 1vs1.
:lol:
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I use the Pike and Long spear all the time. Its what I do. That said, this is a bad idea. The long spear is effective for what it is:
Anti-cav and infantry support.
It does not need any buffs, of any kind, as it is completely effective on the field in it's current state.
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Try making a support only build and choose only a support weapon and then go around bragging around the forums with your k/d. :rolleyes:
See, I dont think there is much supporting in cRPG. There are weapons that are less effective in a 1 vs 1, but they can still rack up kills in groups. What do you mean with a support only build? All builds have a weapon that deals damage, when you are succesful you deal loads of damage, thus kill a lot. Thus K/D is skill. Please name one of these support builds of yours.
The only one I can think of is a long polearm weapon, like a long spear. It does 26p whenever you succeed in 'supporting', its not exactly supporting when its deadly.
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So it's not a support build cause sometimes you get kills? Ok... my bad.
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So it's not a support build cause sometimes you get kills? Ok... my bad.
Dado is using english bill just like you and he has pretty good k/d :wink:
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Ranged>Pikemen
/End thread.
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Try making a support only build and choose only a support weapon and then go around bragging around the forums with your k/d. :rolleyes:
Lol. I and Siiem made longspear STFs and our K/Ds were perfectly fine. Killed a LOT of people in 1v1 too.
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So if long spear is such a great dueling weapon 1vs1, it is good support weapon on groups and it can counter cavalry then why is it that a pikeman always switches to another weapon when they go fight 1vs1? I've seen like 2 guys who dont carry a backup weapon for that reason. Not to mention that only noobs have lost against a pike 1vs1. If these claims were true about pikes then it must be the bestest weapon ever yet there is only few of them compared to other classes.
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So it's not a support build cause sometimes you get kills? Ok... my bad.
I understand you see a support build as something that isn't succesful in a 1 vs 1. A longspear character's purpose is stabbing people, when is a longspear character succesful? When he is stabbing people. Who is the better longspearer (support build)? The guy with 15-3 or the guy with 6-8?
Everyone's purpose in this game is dealing damage, there are no builds that do not have dealing damage as their main purpose (exception is a 13 shield build). Everyone's purpose is essentially getting kills. Some choose to hunt game changers and might get 1 kill that wins the round for them. So K/D doesn't perfectly cover someone's skill, but still it gives quite a good impression of someone's skill.
I believe I'm making perfect sense here, please tell me why if I'm not.
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My build and purpose in the game is not to get kills. I couldn't care less what my k/d is.
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My build and purpose in the game is not to get kills. I couldn't care less what my k/d is.
What is your purpose in this game then?
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What is your purpose in this game then?
To make troll threads about long spears so he can hide his inferiority complex.
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Yeah that :P
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I agree. Why shouldn't you be able to duel with a long spear anyways? Makes no sense.