cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Thomek on October 12, 2011, 12:34:18 pm

Title: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Thomek on October 12, 2011, 12:34:18 pm
I've been thinking of ways to reduce the Dead Time in cRPG battle.

The problem with battle is that both the best and the worst thing about it, is what makes it good!
On one hand, your life counts, as there is no respawn like in siege, on the other hand, there is often a lot of waiting, depending on your playstyle. It is more satisfying to kill in battle, and more frustrating to die.

Naow. What if, there was a battle mode where you could respawn as a peasant when you died?
Many medieval armies had huge contingents of peasants, so it could be argued that this is in-line with the setting.

So what would this game mode be like?

1. It starts like now. 2 armies of well equipped high-lvl soldiers clash.
2. As they start to die, they get respawned as peasants. (Perhaps slightly modified "custom peasants" more on that further down)
3. Peasants are helpless in 1vs1 and this is the players last chance, so they will hopefully start to organize near spawn.
4. A final battle ensues:
Will the organized peasants beat the disorganized, well equipped high levels? Or will the high levels organize for a final charge against the peasant shieldwall?

I do think that such a game mode could potentially do the following:

1. Award the players more active play-time
2. Motivate and give players training in teamplay
3. Help uncover and protect against leeching (As you can't just die do something else on the computer)
4. Make epic peasant battles, mixed in with heroes surviving the first clash.
5. Give new tactical options. Should you stay back and wait for peasant phase? To make good use of your special peasant slaying character? Protecting spawn in battles becomes important.

How would the peasants look?
It would be great if each army had a different "peasant uniform" making the peasant phase look like more of a "real" battle.

Also it would be great if there were a few types of peasants, with gear and builds promoting teamplay.

- They could be low on athletics
- They could have predominantly spears
- They should have shields, to counter long retracted rounds where ranged try to eat down the peasant shieldwall
- Perhaps they should have some kind of bonus connected with being next to other peasants, so they would stick together and not run off on their own
- They should have little to no ranged, except perhaps 1 or 2 throwing lances.. With crap accuracy and less damage than standard spears.
- They should generally have quite low stats, but just enough to do a bit of damage. Should be near useless alone.
- The uniforms should not be perfect. Hats and boots should be a bit random, perhaps they should also be given body armour of different tones of the same colour, but all of them should be quite crappy
- Weapons: Pitchforks, spears, perhaps a few longspears, short 1h swords and axes. Throwing could be a large contingent. 50% or more should have a cheap shield. There should be a lot of anti-cav weapons, since enemy cav would hang out at spawn to rape peasants.
- What kind of peasant you spawn as should be random. Training players in different playstyles.
- Perhaps there is a chance that ONE player on a team can spawn as "The General" A fully armoured knight on a baddass horse with great stats. Perhaps he has an "Aura" boosting the peasants morale. He should have lots of armor and IF. xD

Rounds would probably be longer overall, perhaps the each-player 2 lives thing should be rather a pool of tickets shared for the team. Perhaps you could pay less repair if you stay alive and don't go into peasant phase.

What do you think?
What is potential problems with the idea?
Would it be fun?

Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle
Post by: MaHuD on October 12, 2011, 12:39:08 pm
Wouldn't we see more suiciders?
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle
Post by: Thomek on October 12, 2011, 12:41:01 pm
Good point :)

But I think less. Now you have to suicide once, to switch back to whatever porn you were viewing. With this game mode, you have to suicide TWICE.  (Or more if the team shares peasant-tickets) Besides they would be easier to spot for admins.
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle
Post by: Teeth on October 12, 2011, 12:48:38 pm
Interesting idea, could be fun. Would need quite some testing to make it balanced, I don't know if dev attention can take that right now. Would greatly increase my k/d, as I'm quite a cautious player and rarely die in the first minutes. I'm most always in favour of more peasant slashing!
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Chasey on October 12, 2011, 01:39:42 pm
alot more draws, so youd have to extend round time.
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Leesin on October 12, 2011, 01:41:53 pm
Cavalry and randomers camp enemy spawn and kill the spawning peasants.

No thanks.
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: _GTX_ on October 12, 2011, 02:36:26 pm
Quote from: Leesin on October 12, 2011, 01:41:53 pm
Cavalry and randomers camp enemy spawn and kill the spawning peasants.

No thanks.

If their is a big number of cav and archers, they might rape the peasants completely. Since they cant focus on both things at once.
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 03:10:04 pm
Playing different char than the one i am trying to get used to for 15 generations? No, thanks.
People waiting hidden till most of enemy team is peasant? No, thanks.
Forcing cooperation on battle, that just never works, either there is someone who is respected enough to be followed, or not.

I see ninja being interested in such idea of getting loads of low ath targets to kill, but i am not.



also: why does this somehow remind me of early rounds in native multi? shitty gear (but pimped char at least)

and: how would you manage upkeep for peasant phase?
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Leesin on October 12, 2011, 04:28:40 pm
Quote from: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 03:10:04 pm
Playing different char than the one i am trying to get used to for 15 generations? No, thanks.
People waiting hidden till most of enemy team is peasant? No, thanks.
Forcing cooperation on battle, that just never works, either there is someone who is respected enough to be followed, or not.

I see ninja being interested in such idea of getting loads of low ath targets to kill, but i am not.



also: why does this somehow remind me of early rounds in native multi? shitty gear (but pimped char at least)

and: how would you manage upkeep for peasant phase?

+1
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Jarlek on October 12, 2011, 06:39:47 pm
This sounds awesome really.

As for the peasant gear. What about the Gambesons for them? One team all with the same coloured gambeson and random low tier boots and helmets?

Also, suggested peasant stats:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Torost on October 12, 2011, 08:16:22 pm
I like the idea , but would prefer it be limited to those dying within the first 1-2 min of the battle.

Sacrificing yourself for the teameffort, Shocktroopers. (None shall pass stand vs a charging mob) Any later than this will only draw the battle out. And it makes a point of not abandoning the spawningarea. Would be a nice little teambalancer.

They then spawn a character with standard stats and peasantarmor with matching skill and wpf described by Zapper above.
Weapons at start should be limited to some hatchets and clubs, maybe stones. They would fit the role of those going over the battlefield looting enemies, slitting the throat of wounded enemies.. :twisted:

Picking up weapons as they find them. More scavengers than peasants.

ofc the whole idea of more soft targets on the field will further increase the ego of all the statwhoring players , that believe they are the greatest since they got the finishing blow on a wounded enemy,peasant,afker ...
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Bulzur on October 12, 2011, 08:36:11 pm
It shouldn't be for "all" the players, but only the one who sacrifices themselves in the first minute and a half for example.

Cav, of course, will benefit greatly from this. But no peasant spawn on a horse, so even if they suicide and spawn as peasant, they'll be way less deadly than the "waiting" cav, expecting the end of round when people are scattered.

Leechers will indeed have to suicide twice in a row, and will be way more easily spotted. Good point.

Shocktroops, stopping the opposing army while his own takes a better position, maybe killing two guys, but then obviously slain, will still be able to "play" a bit. I though recommend VERY low peasant stats. A lv16 is not a peasant anymore... 4 PS and 75wpf are already deadly. Just spawn as a lv8, with a "custom" peasant setting, and that's all.

Also, i'll only enable ONE peasant reinforcement per players per MAP. And not every round. So you'll have to think carefully, and not just waste your "knight" s life every damn round.

Finally, i like the idea. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Thomek on October 12, 2011, 09:41:05 pm
Quote from: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 03:10:04 pm
Playing different char than the one i am trying to get used to for 15 generations? No, thanks.
Why not? You still play him, but if you die, you play another one.

Quote from: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 03:10:04 pm
People waiting hidden till most of enemy team is peasant? No, thanks.
There would perhaps be some people protecting the peasant spawn, which would be a new tactical element anyway.

Quote from: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 03:10:04 pm
Forcing cooperation on battle, that just never works, either there is someone who is respected enough to be followed, or not.
It is not forced at all. Just there is an advantage to doing it, which wasn't as strong before, because peasants are more useless in 1vs1 and chaotic situations. They have an incentive to structure themselves. I see ring spear formations (to protect against cav) naturally happening here..

Quote from: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 03:10:04 pm
I see ninja being interested in such idea of getting loads of low ath targets to kill, but i am not.
I'm often the first to die in battle so I think not. The idea is motivated by what I see as "dead time" waiting for the next round. I'm suggesting this to help the part of gameyness that has to do with always having something to do. :)

Quote from: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 03:10:04 pm
also: why does this somehow remind me of early rounds in native multi? shitty gear (but pimped char at least)
Nothing wrong in that..

Quote from: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 03:10:04 pm
and: how would you manage upkeep for peasant phase?
I would manage upkeep as normal, perhaps with adjustment for a bit longer round times. Just an idea is to let you redeem break chances incurred during peasant phase, if you survive.

In many ways this would play out as a normal cRPG battle. Just that people dying early, would have something to do. It would be an adjustment to see how many should be able to enter peasant phase, if there are tickets, first few minutes, or 1 life per player etc. This setting would basically decide the length of the peasant phase by restricting how many are able to enter it.

I can imagine something like the last 20% of players alive are not able to enter peasant phase. Then the last ones to die wouldn't turn into peasants that has to be killed again. If the peasant phase drags on too much you defeat the point of its idea, to reduce waiting times.

Also torost, I didn't think about the teambalancing effect. It's definitely there.


Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Cepeshi on October 12, 2011, 10:10:30 pm
I will get back to this once i get to PC and wont be tired as i am right now, but just one thing:

about this showing leechers more efficiently, yeah, but imagine as if you are somewhat oncall and you just receive call on beginning of the round, so you go suicide charge, trying to hit/kill as many as you can on your way just to be able to focus on the rl stuff, i would not like to have to do this twice  :mrgreen: (and no, i do not consider 3 minutes phonecalls as reason good enuff to go spec)
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: SquishMitten on October 12, 2011, 10:32:40 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Bobthehero on October 12, 2011, 11:34:20 pm
Peasant war sucks.
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: dark_bud on October 12, 2011, 11:38:57 pm
I'm fairly opposed to having to protect a spawn point, have yet to see a game where that doesn't just turn into spawn camping.  I mean, just look how the one team spawns before the other worked out on strat.  If team A gets steamrolled and then starts spawning as a bunch of peasants, well it's no fun getting slaughtered multiple times in 4+ vs 1 fights.

The idea could be a lot of fun, but having to protect a spawn never works well.
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Thomek on October 13, 2011, 01:20:54 pm
well thats why the peasants should have a high chance of spawning with spears. At least the cav won't have a big party then.
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Banok on October 13, 2011, 02:59:39 pm
I like the concept but cud do with some details on how exactly it would actually work

oh and some repliers need to realise if you dont like the mode dont play it simple enough, its optional remember. not everyone is gonna prefer it but hopefully enough do to warrant development.
Title: Re: Idea for new game mode. 2-phase Battle. Peasant Wars!
Post by: Casimir on October 13, 2011, 05:45:10 pm
move to realism discussion