cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 11, 2011, 11:42:10 am

Title: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 11, 2011, 11:42:10 am
Traditionally when couching a lance a knight would pull his shield in tight almost to the point of holding it as the chars do when using it to block.

It would add another element to a joust, could make for some interesting horse on horse on man action.

It may potentially be op however because it could also make it much harder for ranged to disrupt a couch at the last second and it would make leap slashes much more difficult as well.

Would also require a rework of the animation.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: rustyspoon on October 11, 2011, 01:04:37 pm
Traditionally when couching a lance a knight would pull his shield in tight almost to the point of holding it as the chars do when using it to block.

It would add another element to a joust, could make for some interesting horse on horse on man action.

It may potentially be op however because it could also make it much harder for ranged to disrupt a couch at the last second and it would make leap slashes much more difficult as well.

Would also require a rework of the animation.

Yeah...no. No sense in giving a boost to one of the most ridiculous things in this game. To be good at couching in this game you need to be able to point your horse at someone and press the "x" button. Now you want to add autoblock to that? No thanks.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 11, 2011, 01:09:06 pm
So you want to give one of the most overpowered things here an even higher chance to succeed by giving them passive shieldblock? o.O

LOL


For archers like me with 2 athletics the only chance to avoid a couched lance is to shoot that guy. And that doesn't even always work if the rider is skilled ;)
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Vibe on October 11, 2011, 01:17:09 pm
1 shot with autoblock... makes sense
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Konrax on October 11, 2011, 04:53:22 pm
By the same argument infantry were able to hold their shields up and swing their weapons.

If you get passive auto block I want shielders to have it too!

DEATH to 2h and range!
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Jarlek on October 11, 2011, 06:34:34 pm
Weelll, the animation is still there but bolts and arrows still pass through the shield. Why not? Not that there are that many lancers that couch. Most people stab.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Oberyn on October 11, 2011, 06:49:03 pm
That's cause couching head on is actually hard. Overpowered my ass, I'd love to see even one of you noobs manage to couch a 2hander head on. I do it regularly cause I'm awesome like that. But it's a 50/50 gamble. At least cav have to get within range of melee weapons to use their "overpowere" attack, unlike some roof camping bundle of stickss I could mention.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 11, 2011, 07:01:26 pm
Weelll, the animation is still there but bolts and arrows still pass through the shield. Why not? Not that there are that many lancers that couch. Most people stab.


Actually there are alot of guys couching as often as possible, because it gives alot more damage than thrusting.

Even our top cavguys do that :/


I'm no bundle of sticks :)  Cause I almost never walk around on roofs^^
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Jarlek on October 11, 2011, 07:31:47 pm

Actually there are alot of guys couching as often as possible, because it gives alot more damage than thrusting.

Even our top cavguys do that :/


I'm no bundle of sticks :)  Cause I almost never walk around on roofs^^
I know, I'm one of them. I'm using the Great Lance so nothing but couching for me. But the heavy lance stab is still much better than the heavy lance couch (and a lot of time better than the great lance couch, fucking imba!).

But it really is annoying that the animation for couching with a shield shows your guy holding up the shield, while arrows still hits you.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 11, 2011, 08:28:31 pm
They really go through the shield?

Because usually when someone is walking around with a shield and you shoot him from the side, there is a big chance to hit the shield, although he is not actively blocking. That's not happening while couching? o.O
Weird^^
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Jarlek on October 11, 2011, 09:47:36 pm
They really go through the shield?

Because usually when someone is walking around with a shield and you shoot him from the side, there is a big chance to hit the shield, although he is not actively blocking. That's not happening while couching? o.O
Weird^^
Yep. Tested it on duel (eu_3 for the record) and the shield didn't stop it. First tried with crossbow (was easier to time it because it can hold the shots) but they all went through. First I believed it to be the piercethrough because of the speedbonus, but when we tried with an archer and it still didn't stop them I got suspicious. Turned off all other sounds and tested crossbow again and I didn't hear the piercethrough sound so...
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Digglez on October 11, 2011, 11:21:41 pm
lol couching is not overpowered. you can easily get more kills from charge dmg than you can from couching
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: ArchonAlarion on October 12, 2011, 06:10:34 am
Yeah...no. No sense in giving a boost to one of the most ridiculous things in this game. To be good at couching in this game you need to be able to point your horse at someone and press the "x" button. Now you want to add autoblock to that? No thanks.

Wrong board; this is the "realism" board please keep your comments on topic, thanks.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Torben on October 12, 2011, 10:39:21 am
the shield is already in a position that covers you against arrows from 9-12 o´clock.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: MaHuD on October 12, 2011, 12:35:33 pm
Yep. Tested it on duel (eu_3 for the record) and the shield didn't stop it. First tried with crossbow (was easier to time it because it can hold the shots) but they all went through. First I believed it to be the piercethrough because of the speedbonus, but when we tried with an archer and it still didn't stop them I got suspicious. Turned off all other sounds and tested crossbow again and I didn't hear the piercethrough sound so...
My arrows usually get blocked if I hit the shield instead of his body or foot.
But the shield should get a better position while couching I think.
It's pretty easy to shoot a coucher which is bs. You need Pikers/spearmen to counter cavalry not Archers.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Kafein on October 12, 2011, 12:51:11 pm
Speaking about couched lance being "OP" and realism, what about the fact that 60% of players can jump-teleport 3 meters to the side, dodging any couched lance. I know particle tunneling is a very important part of quantum physics, but it shouldn't apply on entire humans. Couched lance is much much much more than pressing x and charging someone. Try that, and you'll either die or miss.

Footmen are extremely agile and impredictible from a horseman perspective. Couched lance is a bit like trying to hit a powerboat with a supertanker.

Couched lance with or without shield against a ranged is a oneshot vs oneshot situation. The ranged hits the horse or the rider, the rider dies. In the opposite case, the ranged dies if the couched lance didn't mysteriously go through (that can happen to throwing projectiles too, or when it doesn't go straight).

I think nearly all couched lance kills are ninja-cav kills. As turning ninja is the only way a cav can more or less safely approach a ranged unit and couched lance is the safest way to kill that ranged (lance pokes don't always onehit men wearing tunics), no wonder it looks OP. It seems "OP" means "able to kill me" for some people.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Wookimonsta on October 17, 2011, 11:05:51 am
Speaking about couched lance being "OP" and realism, what about the fact that 60% of players can jump-teleport 3 meters to the side, dodging any couched lance. I know particle tunneling is a very important part of quantum physics, but it shouldn't apply on entire humans. Couched lance is much much much more than pressing x and charging someone. Try that, and you'll either die or miss.

Footmen are extremely agile and impredictible from a horseman perspective. Couched lance is a bit like trying to hit a powerboat with a supertanker.

Couched lance with or without shield against a ranged is a oneshot vs oneshot situation. The ranged hits the horse or the rider, the rider dies. In the opposite case, the ranged dies if the couched lance didn't mysteriously go through (that can happen to throwing projectiles too, or when it doesn't go straight).

I think nearly all couched lance kills are ninja-cav kills. As turning ninja is the only way a cav can more or less safely approach a ranged unit and couched lance is the safest way to kill that ranged (lance pokes don't always onehit men wearing tunics), no wonder it looks OP. It seems "OP" means "able to kill me" for some people.

THIS
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Smoothrich on October 17, 2011, 07:36:12 pm
the shield does in fact block shots a little to your right side but ineffective against melee or straight ahead of you, makes sense that a well timed arrow can interrupt the couch for balance.

also couching is seriously easy mode, best way to defeat aware 2 handers with great sword, and if you get the gank on people and they react too slowly, couching is always a far superior choice, as its basically an instant kill

Notice how most rounds start with a couch kill in the first 15 seconds when good cavalry players are on?  Because its SO effective, especially in the start when everyone has full HP
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Overdriven on October 17, 2011, 09:26:26 pm
It's a stupid suggestion. But to all those saying couching is OP and they can't avoid it. It's piss easy to avoid, I can do it with every one of my chars. Including the 0 ath ones. Chances are, if it gets you, it's because you saw it to late. If you see it early enough, even with 0 ath, all you have to do is run to the side. Worst comes to worse, jump to the side.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Wookimonsta on October 18, 2011, 10:57:41 am
actually worst comes to worst, if the enemy is on a slow horse, just run away. In decent armor you can survive a couch to the back due to low speed bonus.
Title: Re: Passive shield block of couched lances
Post by: Plaksteris on October 28, 2011, 06:38:56 pm
I say YES to this suggestion, because I dont think that in real life some archer who is getting couched will stand there like idiot and try to shot into face in cav from front, and 95% Archers have so light armor and theyr so fast that they can just jump-fucking teleport 3m away (as said above). AND As I was Meele for 4 months I know that it is SUPER DUPER VERY EASY TO AVOID COUCH (As 2h for 2months I never was couched, NEVER), only stupid douchebag archers cant avoid it! And thats pain in the ass that they are shooting at you.