cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: DrKronic on February 01, 2011, 05:52:05 pm

Title: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: DrKronic on February 01, 2011, 05:52:05 pm
Discuss I think its actually detrimental to game balance. It seems to me it allows clans to basically get five multi at the expense of every regular cRPG player. Now I enjoy playing with my friends but it starts to feel annoying when u notice not just the clan that is "running" the multi but also a few other "skiled" players are running that same banner to own that five multi.

You basically see this always now

What does everyone think? I think banner balancing is at best being abused in its current format and probably needs to go or be restricted to maybe allowing four guys max with same banner on a team
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Camaris on February 01, 2011, 06:00:44 pm
On Battle perhaps....

On Siege... tbh if people dont manage to defend the sensible areas and run everywhere but not where they are needed they deserve to get 1x all the time.
If Clans are the only one who know what is worth to defend then by god they should get x5 all the time until every lowbob understands what matters in siege.

Additional: there are maps in siege onyl for attackers and only for defenders... so you cant grind x5 as clan as you for sure will get sometimes on the wrong side.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Punisher on February 01, 2011, 06:03:05 pm
The problem is the current system stacks clans on one side, many times there have been 2 clans with 10-15 people on one side vs a bunch of randoms and a small 3-4 people clan. Guess who gets x5 map after map.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: DrKronic on February 01, 2011, 06:08:59 pm
Quote from: Punisher on February 01, 2011, 06:03:05 pm
The problem is the current system stacks clans on one side, many times there have been 2 clans with 10-15 people on one side vs a bunch of randoms and a small 3-4 people clan. Guess who gets x5 map after map.

This is exactly what I have experienced just wondering if I am only one

I mean if your clan comes on and has five multi for two hours if that goes on for months its almost like hacking the database

Pubs(scrubs) vs Huge clan plus banner-changing "elite" is no fun


Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Centurion on February 01, 2011, 06:16:01 pm
This is a stupid suggestion. Banner rebalancing is extremely stupid. Just because clans are organized doesn't mean you deserve to fuck it up. If you hate it so much join a clan or fuck off.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Sultan_Khalifa on February 01, 2011, 06:27:08 pm
^^^^

I Agree if clans know how to teamplay its not there problom that the othere team is just charging like dumb plp
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Centurion on February 01, 2011, 06:36:03 pm
Thank you khalifa.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: DrKronic on February 01, 2011, 06:38:59 pm
Quote from: Centurion on February 01, 2011, 06:16:01 pm
Banner rebalancing is extremely stupid. Just because clans are organized doesn't mean you deserve to fuck it up. If you hate it so much join a clan or fuck off.

Ragemoar plz

Sounds like you like the multi your "earning" so much you can't even come up with a defense past F$%& U I WANT MAI XP
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: UrLukur on February 01, 2011, 06:46:29 pm
Quote from: DrKronic on February 01, 2011, 06:08:59 pm
This is exactly what I have experienced just wondering if I am only one

I mean if your clan comes on and has five multi for two hours if that goes on for months its almost like hacking the database

Pubs(scrubs) vs Huge clan plus banner-changing "elite" is no fun

Yep, it's fucked up. It's fun when there are 2 teams of pubs+clan with similar number of clanmates in each. It sucks when there are 2 clans vs pubs on the same map, it's usually reason for me to change the server, i bet many others do the same.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Beauchamp on February 01, 2011, 06:48:39 pm
banner balance is the best feature in crpg ever and if not ever, than ever. i'm rather angry that it sometimes doesnt really work as it should - we had many rounds where we were separated although we had the same banner and were like 25 percent of total player count. this should be really fixed so that big groups play always together (and small ones of course too - i mean same banners should play together always or at least almost almost always).

the other problem with banner balance is, that its really not fine tuned (balanced) according to random players. i mean if really some stacked team is winning 4:0 than why the heck doesn't autobalance make the teams 2:1 in player count? i often saw many rounds that were "balanced" by moving 1 person from mid tier into loosing team while winning clan stacked team still had even more players!!!

it seems to me that balance always is like trying to find 2 balanced groups of the same player count. why? bring on some variety, keep same banners almost always together, in the "worst" case we will see some battles with 2:1 in playercount. for me this is not actually worst case, its fun to fight against a lot of average players or try some zerg overwhelming charge notactics against a few mercs.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Vygar on February 01, 2011, 07:00:29 pm
I think banner balance has a place but on the more public servers, it tends to lend itself more towards "guild groups" farming pugs for hours.  When this occurs (and it does quite often), I just stop playing rather than switch my banner so I can get some decent XP.  GvG servers would be a much more appropriate place for this kind of mechanic.   
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Beauchamp on February 01, 2011, 07:17:29 pm
Quote from: Vygar on February 01, 2011, 07:00:29 pm
I think banner balance has a place but on the more public servers, it tends to lend itself more towards "guild groups" farming pugs for hours.  When this occurs (and it does quite often), I just stop playing rather than switch my banner so I can get some decent XP.  GvG servers would be a much more appropriate place for this kind of mechanic.

nah the only problem is that banner balance has a bad algorithm - it quite often separates for no reason people with the same banner while at the same time it doesn't really balance the roster.

imo the formula should be something like this:
TEAM1 - players with 1st most popular banner
balanced according to
TEAM2 - players with single banners (but more of them until they match in strength the TEAM1)
+
TEAM 2 - players with 2nd most popular banner
balanced according to
TEAM 1 - remaining players with single banners or those 2 of a kind etc...

etc...

- this would guarantee that 2 biggest groups will be in different teams which is very important.
- teams would be balanced (sometimes meaning that there will be way more players on one side - but hell what who cares, its a nice variety)
- players not in big banner groups would be switched from att/def side quite often so they wouldn't bitch that they kept loosing 5 consequetive rounds while attacking
- people with the same banner would be almost always together.
- this balance should be done after each round (i feel that the balance sometimes only "fine tunes" a few people, but when it distributes them wrong in the begining like often happens than its all just fucked)
- after the balance would be done a special recount would compare the strength of teams, if it would be within limits the game would go on, if it wouldn't than only under this consequence people with the same banner could be switched to other teams - this would often happen in small servers with like 20 people where 8 people would be clan players - and yeah this is exactly the case when we can talk about clan stacking when there are somewhere close to 50 percents of players from 1 clan.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: AdNecrias on February 01, 2011, 07:37:08 pm
Banner balance isn't always in effect. You join a server, get banner balanced on the first round and then it's the autobalance in charge. Problem is the auto balance has been changed so we don't have the 2:1 Losing:winning teams. So this old autobalance should make come back. Keep in mind this would start making it huge amount of randoms versus the small organized clan in late rounds. It'd also keep taking off people from the winning team even if they're all in the same clan.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Joxer on February 01, 2011, 08:53:51 pm
Yeah it is. This happens more and more. 38 vs 55
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Rogue_Eagle on February 02, 2011, 10:29:48 am
me and my 2 clan mates are constantly pushed around by balancing, banner balancing only seems to work first round, after that the game decides we can't ever be on the same team.
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: Rumblood on February 02, 2011, 02:01:58 pm
I'm not in a clan. I don't switch my banner. I never have problems getting to an x3, x4, or x5. I've never found myself losing 6 or more rounds in a row. In fact, I wonder how others get to x5 because I rarely go with x1 for more than 2 rounds or so.  :lol:
I think auto-balance simply loves me and when I am losing too much, it looks out for me and switches me to the winning side  :wink:
Title: Re: Is banner balancing actually making battles more lopsided?
Post by: 3ABP on February 02, 2011, 02:30:57 pm
Quote from: Beauchamp on February 01, 2011, 06:48:39 pm
banner balance is the best feature in crpg ever and if not ever, than ever. i'm rather angry that it sometimes doesnt really work as it should - we had many rounds where we were separated although we had the same banner and were like 25 percent of total player count. this should be really fixed so that big groups play always together (and small ones of course too - i mean same banners should play together always or at least almost almost always).

the other problem with banner balance is, that its really not fine tuned (balanced) according to random players. i mean if really some stacked team is winning 4:0 than why the heck doesn't autobalance make the teams 2:1 in player count? i often saw many rounds that were "balanced" by moving 1 person from mid tier into loosing team while winning clan stacked team still had even more players!!!

it seems to me that balance always is like trying to find 2 balanced groups of the same player count. why? bring on some variety, keep same banners almost always together, in the "worst" case we will see some battles with 2:1 in playercount. for me this is not actually worst case, its fun to fight against a lot of average players or try some zerg overwhelming charge notactics against a few mercs.
+ 10!

Pls make autobalance by banner absolutely (of cource depends of total number of players in both team and team members numbers).
Let firstly autobalance by banner split the players between the teams,
and only then start working other formulas and methods by the team balancing.

If it is needed we (at least I am) can help to develop those formulas and methods.