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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 09:48:35 am

Title: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 09:48:35 am
Something should be done about siege: the use of construction sites....it's no secret that the grey order is number one construction site blocker on siegeservers. Usually they try to block every door and every stairs with alot of construction sites and there is no way to destroy all of them fast enough before the time is 00:00   -.-
Some other clans do that as well, even with tking eachother so they can places more of that stuff, but grey order started and is still number 1^^

Dear devs, balancers or whatever, can you please do something against that?
Maybe limit the number of consites that can be used or make it impossible to place them directly next to eachother so that there will always be a small way between them or do whatever you get on your minds, but please do something. Thx


(I just copied that text from another post of mine in another thread, because I'm too lazy to write a new one^^ That's why grey order is mentioned first, due to the other thread. Please forgive my lazyness :P )
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Snoozer on October 03, 2011, 01:35:16 pm
welllllll i do agree its a problem...but quite frankly a lot of of the time defense looses 80% of the time...if i ever lost a multi it was on the defense team hardly ever was it lost on offence.
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 02:23:55 pm
I lost alot of times on attacking side, especially when there was a clan on who was constantly using consites to block everything
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Tot. on October 03, 2011, 02:39:53 pm
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 09:48:35 am
Maybe limit the number of consites that can be used

It's limited already.
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Bulzur on October 03, 2011, 02:47:52 pm
Quote from: Tot. on October 03, 2011, 02:39:53 pm
It's limited already.

Only 20 allowed ?  :rolleyes:

Seriously, construction sites are to "build" things. I'd gladly have a small program automatically destroying construction sites (cs) that haven't receive any construction materials (cm) in the last 45sec. This way, we'll get rid of some of them, and we can be sure there's at least one defending player who "always" have some cm with him.

And limit the number of cs to a bit less.
While you're at it, only allow small ladders for defenders (to go on some otherwise unreachable roof, for example), that way, they won't use siege ladders to block the way.
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: NuberT on October 03, 2011, 02:51:24 pm
its limited to 6 per side and I claim my clan HRE to be the best engineers! map balance on siege is broken anyway, but mainly because maps have been designed for 80 players and not 120 lagging players..
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Tot. on October 03, 2011, 02:57:34 pm
Quote from: Bulzur on October 03, 2011, 02:47:52 pm
...

You realize how hard it actually is to defend a castle properly when you got only a handful of men because all of random dumbshits just run off to the walls, right? Many castles are virtually indefensible because of how easy it is to get to the flag using couple of ladders, not to even mention vs. organized group of attackers.

I'm all for tweaking sieges. Just keep in mind that usually maps favor attackers a lot, mostly due to players mentality.
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Bulzur on October 03, 2011, 03:16:26 pm
Quote from: Tot. on October 03, 2011, 02:57:34 pm

I'm all for tweaking sieges. Just keep in mind that usually maps favor attackers a lot, mostly due to players mentality.

Agreed.
But there's a lot of "only two way inside to flag" castle, with wich 3 sonctruction sites at each side, and siege shield or ladders on top of it, are impossible to take.
Of course, siege is where teamwork is clearly superior, mainly to ladders for attackers, instead of just pushing the siege tower. And i don't see how we can "lower" the importance of the teamwork, wich we shouldn't, imo.
Just having "only" 4 construction sites per team is enough for a good organized defense, and will still give a bit more chance for attackers. Also limit the number of ladders for attackers, to 6 for example, to even up the chances.

But at the moment, siege is quite easy to play, with your clan. And pretty irritating for all others.
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 03:26:33 pm
Quote from: NuberT on October 03, 2011, 02:51:24 pm
its limited to 6 per side and I claim my clan HRE to be the best engineers! map balance on siege is broken anyway, but mainly because maps have been designed for 80 players and not 120 lagging players..

Actually no. And tking eachother to get more siegeequip to block the way lowers your reputation^^
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Malaclypse on October 03, 2011, 03:37:25 pm
I like the idea of erecting barricades of decent health (see: not siege shield flimsy) around a map, and am for using construction sites to this end until such time as another item can be added for the specific purpose of blocking a path temporarily. It gives the map a more dynamic feel if the defenders are actively taking steps to block paths, though on certain maps with only a few real choke points, I can see how it's more of an issue, and the relatively low round time (on NA 2 at least) doesn't help.

The ideal that I'd like is a one-time preparation for defense of a limited number of barricade objects in a 30-45 second period of time before before sides respawn anew and commence the map in earnest, the barricades regenerating each round fresh.
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Camaris on October 03, 2011, 04:38:28 pm
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 03:26:33 pm
Actually no. And tking eachother to get more siegeequip to block the way lowers your reputation^^

You dont have to tk anyone cause of weapon rack atm.
Build weapon rack spam ladders, siege shields, csites forever.

Only thing i find lame is ladders to avoid attacker ladders.
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Memento_Mori on October 03, 2011, 04:49:39 pm
Do not attack the barricade, use YOUR OWN ladders to go around said barricade. Same way you use the ladders to entirely negate the walls/gatehouse/more walls & end up hopping directly onto the flag most of the time.

IMO This is an attackers ADHD/no metagame tactics & is not a problem.
The clans I play with seem to have no issues bypassing these impenetrable barricades. (even though you can penetrate them, it just takes a little while and is completely pointless since you could have just walked around the barricade or laddered over it.)


Just my opinion but it really doesn't seem like an issue, even on that nordic siege house map barricading every doorway. Attackers simply laddered up to the window and walked by.
All it takes is the tiniest bit of coordination from attackers.

All my silly opinion.





PS: I think you should have to pay upkeep on C-sites, because at the moment I'm not sure if you do or not.
PSS: Bulzur has a great idea, lower the number of C-sites able to be deployed per team.
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Bulzur on October 03, 2011, 05:14:18 pm
At the moment, no upkeep on siege equipment. But i remember one dev wondering if they would add one. Dunno what happen to this idea.

I was thinking of this castle, only two way to the flag, one is where i am. We couldn't jump over the construction material, because the door is too "low". The other entrance, is, from the screenshot point of view, at the right. A big door. Also blocked. You can't put ladders to go inside, since there's high walls surrounding it. If you jump from the walls, you die. Don't remember the castle's name.
It's one with a siege tower, crossing a deep river. There's one backdoor, wich leads to a ladder. The gate, wich can be opened, is on the left side, from the attackers spawn point of view, and is "never" used. Quite easy to defend, quite easy to attack too, since ladders can take you to the flag. So it's actually the team with the more engineers that win. No skill required.
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 04, 2011, 07:34:37 pm
THIS is why there should be somthing done about consites.
Blocking a stairway or doorway is one thing, but blocking the only possibility to open a gate is something totally different.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: About construction sites on siegeservers
Post by: Snoozer on October 06, 2011, 12:18:37 am
i think there needs to be alot done with siege...to me its terribly broken compared from what i recall in native(its been a while so i might be mistaken) siege was not so one sided,now it seems like whenever you play defence you are doomed to loose your multiplier and the only way to win defense is to cheat or have unnaturally good amount of players or the offence has an unnaturally bad amount of players  :|