cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Beauchamp on January 31, 2011, 07:00:59 pm

Title: Side sword
Post by: Beauchamp on January 31, 2011, 07:00:59 pm
i suggest to reduce dmg of that ugly looking lightning fast thing by 1 or 2 points. such an ugly renaissance style looking weapon shouldn't be the ultimate 1hander. NERF NERF NERF...
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: chief on January 31, 2011, 07:10:02 pm
Agreed, The cut damage of the Nordic Champions Sword, the speed of a scimitar, and the thrust damage of a pike. Swords with the same length as it (95) can't compete at all. It seems someone decided to completely buff this sword in every aspect.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on January 31, 2011, 07:15:37 pm
I don't even understand why do we have this late-period weapons. They look out of place.


And also, Chinese 1H and 2H swords are weak. I am not historical expect but I doubt that super-power like China would have weapons inferior even to Nord ones of 8th century (!). Sure it's a period when China will soon be conquered by Mongols but nevertheless it's still far more advanced than medieval dark-age Europe of the time. Assuming that dark-age culture would have superior weapons than super-power just doesn't really fit the reality. It's as if in 7 centuries some video game would have Ivory Coast regime wielding deadly machine guns and vehicles and USA wielding rusty WW2 weapons. I blame it on eurocentrism! :)
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: LordSnow on January 31, 2011, 07:15:46 pm
what do you want at the end? bad sword at high cost?
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Beauchamp on January 31, 2011, 07:23:34 pm
what do you want at the end? bad sword at high cost?
read it again
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: EponiCo on January 31, 2011, 08:40:12 pm
I agree. Should become a fast thrusting sword in the higher midrange with medieval swords taking the best spots.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Thomek on February 01, 2011, 12:22:39 am
Agree completely.. Nerf nerf!
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Rogue on February 01, 2011, 12:46:12 am
Fully agreed. Buff the Knightly Arming instead.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Patricia on February 01, 2011, 03:36:32 am
I don't even understand why do we have this late-period weapons. They look out of place.


And also, Chinese 1H and 2H swords are weak. I am not historical expect but I doubt that super-power like China would have weapons inferior even to Nord ones of 8th century (!). Sure it's a period when China will soon be conquered by Mongols but nevertheless it's still far more advanced than medieval dark-age Europe of the time. Assuming that dark-age culture would have superior weapons than super-power just doesn't really fit the reality. It's as if in 7 centuries some video game would have Ivory Coast regime wielding deadly machine guns and vehicles and USA wielding rusty WW2 weapons. I blame it on eurocentrism! :)

Fun fact, the metal the Chinese used was EXTREMELY TERRIBLY FUCKING SHIT, now this wasn't their fault, it just happened that the metal they could get their hands on was of crap quality and extremely shit, which is why they had to fold swords like one million times to achieve any sort of "decent" durability.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on February 01, 2011, 04:54:41 am
Fun fact, the metal the Chinese used was EXTREMELY TERRIBLY FUCKING SHIT, now this wasn't their fault, it just happened that the metal they could get their hands on was of crap quality and extremely shit, which is why they had to fold swords like one million times to achieve any sort of "decent" durability.

Source?

I find it highly unlikely that barbarian civilization had such superior weapons as you said, and superior culture was so inferior in weapons. That would be, I guess, the only time in history such a thing ever happened. At the time of the game (13th century) both India and China are waning but are still super-powers, and most technologically advanced.
I've searched online a bit and couldn't find anything to support your comment. On contrary. However, I am interested in truth so I am ready to correct myself if you give me the source.


"In their various campaigns, the Chinese armies through the ages, employed a variety of equipment in the different arms of the army. The most notable weaponry used by the Chinese consisted of crossbows, rockets, gunpowder weapons, and other "exotic weapons", but the Chinese also made many advances on conventional iron weapons such as swords and spears that were far superior to other contemporary weapons."

wiki
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: ManOfWar on February 01, 2011, 05:02:52 am
I new this day would come...

, leave this sword alone, the long espada is the sword for stabbing, if your going to nerf it at all- reduce the speed by 1 point, that will decrease it significantly- the cut damage is the same as the scimitar pretty much
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Gorath on February 01, 2011, 05:15:07 am
Fun fact, the metal the Chinese used was EXTREMELY TERRIBLY FUCKING SHIT, now this wasn't their fault, it just happened that the metal they could get their hands on was of crap quality and extremely shit, which is why they had to fold swords like one million times to achieve any sort of "decent" durability.

 :shock:
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That's Japanese swords dude...

Buff the Military Cleaver instead.

Agreed!!! +1+1+1+1    :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Dunecat on February 01, 2011, 06:36:35 am
:shock:
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That's Japanese swords dude...

Fully agreed. Buff the Knightly Arming instead.
Agreed!!! +1+1+1+1    :mrgreen:
If any - a Knightly Arming Sword should be an ultimate one-handed bladed.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Spawny on February 01, 2011, 10:02:33 am
I have a 2 times heirloomed side sword.

When I hit level 31 it will get masterworked... 103 speed with 36 cut damage and 29 pierce. Seems legit :P

No really, it's a bit too powerfull imo.

One thing though: Whenever major changes are made to weapons I feel that anyone that has heirloomed that particular weapon should get to repick his heirlooms.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Fasader on February 01, 2011, 01:30:15 pm
I wouldn't call -5 speed and -2dmg a major change.  :!:
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on February 01, 2011, 01:37:33 pm
deletew
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Xant on February 01, 2011, 01:40:24 pm
deletew

Ok it was funny once but your racist remarks are getting offensive

edit: edited out
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: MrExxc on February 01, 2011, 01:44:50 pm
I don't really have an argument on balance or whatsoever, I just don't like the 2 best 1h waepons, they don't fit into my image of what warband timeperiod is. Correct me if I'm wrong though. I feel like the 1h are missing some nice crafted western swords with a cool looking handle, 'cause after all a sword is what determins what kind of warrior you are.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on February 01, 2011, 01:59:43 pm
Ok it was funny once but your racist remarks are getting offensive

edit: edited out

Stop stalking me :) I've included it all in the post before that one :) Except the racist remarks of the superiority of Asian race of course :)
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Blondin on February 01, 2011, 02:38:50 pm
I don't like the "style" of this sword, so i don't use it. But i take one on the floor sometimes, and yeah, it's a powerfull weapon. In fact i guess it's the best 1hander weapon (most expensive too) so you have to make a choice : style or power, something like the black armour (ugly but powerfull).
May be a nerf, or add new weapons, to give ppl the choice in up tier 1hand wp.

Ps : Gorath i'm with you, buff the military cleaver!
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Beauchamp on February 01, 2011, 03:15:33 pm
I don't like the "style" of this sword, so i don't use it. But i take one on the floor sometimes, and yeah, it's a powerfull weapon. In fact i guess it's the best 1hander weapon (most expensive too) so you have to make a choice : style or power, something like the black armour (ugly but powerfull).
May be a nerf, or add new weapons, to give ppl the choice in up tier 1hand wp.

Ps : Gorath i'm with you, buff the military cleaver!

this (ugly but good - style or effectivity) is a very good point.

but i think since the upkeep system we can afford to have both - freaking expensive good looking and good weapons in top tier. repair cost will cost a shitload but you still can take it from time to time.

this situation is different from previous state of a game where you basicly only needed to grind enough money and than you could keep the best weapon forever.

so since the upkeep system i rather support nice looking medieval (but also very expensive) high tier items. in fact i wouldnt be against a few special items that could cost over 30k among 1handers but would have appropriate good stats. from time to time you could take them :o)
but as i said i'm not so much against sidesword because its so good, but because it is ugly and good at the same time and it doesnt really fit into true middle ages period where imo this game belong.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Zoidberg on February 01, 2011, 03:16:47 pm
Noo, i hate you all! :evil:
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: UrLukur on February 01, 2011, 06:21:03 pm
Agreed!!! +1+1+1+1    :mrgreen:

If any - a Knightly Arming Sword should be an ultimate one-handed bladed.

WTF ?!? It's fuckin' cavalry sword, why it should be ultimate 1h weapon ?

Truth is, there is no ultimate type of medieval sword. If there is any, it's type XVIII. In game there are 4 models, pike of tears, side sword, italian sword and crusader's sword. Out of those, side sword is least capable of cuts, tears and italian are most capable. Side Sword share something with type XIX but is flimsy and rather more pierce oriented from type XVIII, so it shouldn't be ultimate 1hander, especially because it's butt ugly and late.

Wait a sec, crusader's is type XV. Broad Shortsword is either type XV or XVIII.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Magikarp on February 01, 2011, 06:33:27 pm
It's fine, it's just a hybrid and more expensive to use.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Dunecat on February 01, 2011, 06:36:22 pm
I completely forgot about our gorgeous Crusader Sword.
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Sadly, since I no longer have access to it, it's not heirloomed.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Patricia on February 01, 2011, 07:57:10 pm
:shock:
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That's Japanese swords dude...

Agreed!!! +1+1+1+1    :mrgreen:

My bad, guess I got mixed up.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Vexus on February 02, 2011, 12:42:42 am
It seems like after this thread it got even more popular....

Just because it's the most expensive doesn't mean it must be 101 speed, 95 range and good in cut and pierce else I want something like that for 2h too.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 12:44:59 am
It seems like after this thread it got even more popular....

Just because it's the most expensive don't mean it must be 101 speed, 95 range and good in cut and pierce else I want something like that for 2h too.

Buy a greatsword of doom, german or dannish flavour.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on February 02, 2011, 12:50:58 am
Buy a greatsword of doom, german or dannish flavour.

Or Long Iron Mace or Bar Mace.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Vexus on February 02, 2011, 12:52:20 am
Didn't know they had 100 speed going to buy both of them now!
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 12:56:45 am
Didn't know they had 100 speed going to buy both of them now!

They are just as fast if not faster than side sword.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Vexus on February 02, 2011, 01:05:50 am
You can't possibly think so.

The speed is measured not only on the first starting swing but on the consecutive ones afterwards aka spamming on the same side.

Try swinging with both weapons same wpf and agi and use the side sword without shield since obviously shield weight will make it slower then come please enlight me how side sword is slower.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 01:11:17 am
You can't possibly think so.

The speed is measured not only on the first starting swing but on the consecutive ones afterwards aka spamming on the same side.

Try swinging with both weapons same wpf and agi and use the side sword without shield since obviously shield weight will make it slower then come please enlight me how side sword is slower.

shield, stun, sweet spots(both of them).
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Shigeru on February 02, 2011, 03:47:46 pm
Just leave the sword alone, I doubt cRPG could live a day without someone wanting to nerf this weeks most 1337 weapon.

There is already a huge variety of 1-hand weapons in use which proves that this isn't as crazy as is being said here.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 03:56:35 pm
Buy a greatsword of doom, german or dannish flavour.

Why don't you make a 2H alt and show us some of your leet skills with these greatswords of doom?
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on February 02, 2011, 04:59:49 pm
Why don't you make a 2H alt and show us some of your leet skills with these greatswords of doom?

Personal skill is no indication of a quality of weapon :)
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 07:50:54 pm
Why don't you make a 2H alt and show us some of your leet skills with these greatswords of doom?

Time. I don't have so much time to waste. I can barely level one character.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 07:52:07 pm
Personal skill is no indication of a quality of weapon :)

No, but if you're a crap player how would you know enough to judge whether a weapon is OP or not?

P.S of course, not to imply that UrLukur is crap, or anything. Yeah.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on February 02, 2011, 08:06:29 pm
No, but if you're a crap player how would you know enough to judge whether a weapon is OP or not?

Easy. If weapon X kills me 50x while weapon Y kills me zero times, weapon X is obviously OP.

:)
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 08:18:27 pm
Easy. If weapon X kills me 50x while weapon Y kills me zero times, weapon X is obviously OP.

:)

Flawed logic.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 08:21:59 pm
No, but if you're a crap player how would you know enough to judge whether a weapon is OP or not?

P.S of course, not to imply that UrLukur is crap, or anything. Yeah.

Crap players have no idea about balance. You also are narrow minded with your 2h elitism.

To judge, player have to possess fair amount of knowledge, experience, skill and ability to observe and analyse various aspects of gameplay. I have all those, so i am able to judge well.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 08:24:09 pm
Crap players have no idea about balance. You also are narrow minded with your 2h elitism.

To judge, player have to possess fair amount of knowledge, experience, skill and ability to observe and analyse various aspects of gameplay. I have all those, so i am able to judge well.

Yes, you would, naturally, be the most objective judge of that.  :lol:
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on February 02, 2011, 08:41:12 pm
Flawed logic.

It was not a logical statement at all.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Memento_Mori on February 02, 2011, 08:46:05 pm
Crap players have no idea about balance. You also are narrow minded with your 2h elitism.

To judge, player have to possess fair amount of knowledge, experience, skill and ability to observe and analyse various aspects of gameplay. I have all those, so i am able to judge well.

Actually to judge anything you don't really need to know anything about what you're judging, example, I think you are a 1her user who can't deal with feints. I know nothing about you, but I can also say that I am able to judge well.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 08:50:32 pm
It was not a logical statement at all.

That's what I just said, bro.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Tai Feng on February 02, 2011, 08:51:58 pm
That's what I just said, bro.

You said it was flawed logic, which is incorrect because logic wasn't applied, therefore it cannot be flawed logic. Only lack of it.

Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 09:03:54 pm
Actually to judge anything you don't really need to know anything about what you're judging, example, I think you are a 1her user who can't deal with feints. I know nothing about you, but I can also say that I am able to judge well.

To judge well. I can deal with feints.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 09:35:06 pm
You said it was flawed logic, which is incorrect because logic wasn't applied, therefore it cannot be flawed logic. Only lack of it.

Yes, well... what can I say, you argue against your own points very effectively, there is nothing left for me to say.
Title: Re: Side sword
Post by: Blondin on February 02, 2011, 11:42:57 pm
You said it was flawed logic, which is incorrect because logic wasn't applied, therefore it cannot be flawed logic. Only lack of it.

You remember me a guy with a Buddhist monk as avatar.