cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Kherr on September 29, 2011, 07:57:18 pm

Title: More Offers on the Website Market - Conclusion
Post by: Kherr on September 29, 2011, 07:57:18 pm
Please read this message and my "conclusion" message below before polling.

The max amount of offers was decreased to 6 with last patch. Now some market actions are nearly impossible... why?

I liked to do several item trades to get what I want. I sometimes had trading chaines of 4 trades to get what I want. That was very efficient.

It's impossible to organize such trading chains with messages in the trading forum.

If the people cannot offer a lot of possible trades the amount of possibilites decrease dramatically.

But the max amount of offers was decreased from 11 to 6. Why? Time!

The market pages was slow. But I suggest an easy solution for that.
Imo the main problem is the combination of personal offers and full offers on the same page. You organize your offers on the same page which shows all offers.

I suggest two pages. One for organizing the personal offers and one for all offers:
(click to show/hide)

So it's fast and easy to organize the personal offers. But you also have got a lot of offers from other players.
Ok, I know there are also more sophiticated solutions possible. But I wanted a suggestion with low implementation time.

What do you think?
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market
Post by: Kherr on September 29, 2011, 09:06:28 pm
Hm... after a short time it is 50:50 (3:3 votes).

To be honest I cannot imagine a cause to avoid more trading possibilities. With a good technical implementation more offers does not cause problems.

So I fear the poll options are bad... especially the "No! 6 offers are enough.".

Yeah... even if you think 6 are enough for you why not allow much more for other player?
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 29, 2011, 09:28:38 pm
6 trades is plenty. The whole point of the marketplace patch was to make it less cluttered and load fast. Use the board to work out a deal.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market
Post by: Kherr on September 29, 2011, 09:33:42 pm
Quote from: POOPHAMMER on September 29, 2011, 09:28:38 pm
6 trades is plenty. The whole point of the marketplace patch was to make it less cluttered and load fast. Use the board to work out a deal.

I am surprised:
Quote from: Zapper on September 27, 2011, 11:33:54 pm
What about posting your market offers on the, you know, marketplace board in these forums? No need to put up and offer/request unless you got a deal already,
Quote from: POOPHAMMER on September 27, 2011, 11:54:25 pm
Not everyone reads the board
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 29, 2011, 09:39:15 pm
Quote from: Kherr on September 29, 2011, 09:33:42 pm
I am surprised:

So? No need to clutter the market. 6 trades is reasonable enough.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market
Post by: indigocylinder on September 30, 2011, 08:01:28 am
This would have the added benefit of people being able to see immediately when they put up an incorrect trade.

+1

And also, I suspect the expiry of week old trades will do most of the work reducing the market size, considering only high volume traders had more than 6 offers anyway.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market
Post by: Rumaahinen on September 30, 2011, 02:11:19 pm
+1 for the idea to see your own trades in separate page.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market
Post by: Kherr on October 01, 2011, 04:36:08 pm
Conclusion

Ok, to be honest I am a little bit disappointed. The majority of the players poll for "6 offers are enough".
I want a lot of offers so for me it's a "you may not have more than 6" offers.
But why? I talked with other players during the last days.

I comprehend one argument: "If there are less offers you can check the market much faster for mispriced items of other players." LOL

I traded very much during the last months. Before the patch there were normally about 30-60 offers of other players who were interested in my heirloomed equipment... atm only 7 - 10. Not a good chance for crosstrades.
I switched from Pole to 2H recently. It's hard to get 2H Stuff for my Pole Items. I need to find 1:1 trading partner now. Boring...

Should that interest you? Yup, because I need trading partners in a chain of trades. If I have a trading chain of 4 trades there are 5 happy traders involved. I get what I want, but the other involved traders also get what they want.
I did more then 200 trades... and there was always a trading partner who wanted the trade.

I cannot do that with the forum. I even don't play as much as before because it's boring to have pole items while playing a 2h char.

I will ask for a statistic of the market in a few weeks. I am sure the amount of trades will be much lower than before the patch.

You don't need an open market, if there are no offers.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market
Post by: Kafein on October 01, 2011, 05:16:46 pm
Quote from: POOPHAMMER on September 29, 2011, 09:28:38 pm
6 trades is plenty. The whole point of the marketplace patch was to make it less cluttered and load fast. Use the board to work out a deal.

This. 6 trade offers is enough, even for traders.

Most people using all of them are desperate players offering a +2 heavy greatsword vs any +2 2h they can think of, or money.

Those multi-offers using the same item clutter the market for no reason. And anyway, serious people on the marketplace trade for gold, not other heirlooms.

If you have 6+ MW items to sell, then blah you are rich enough.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market - Conclusion
Post by: Kherr on October 01, 2011, 05:29:40 pm
@Kafein tbh I dont agree.
1. There cannot be a market clutter. Yup, some offers are for fun... nobody will buy a sword for 999 million, but the offer lifetime will eliminate most of such things. Every offer is a legitimate offer.
Dont tell me you read every offer. At least I usually wanted something specific so I used the search field.

2. The loading time will be higher if there are more offers. But imho that's not a big problem. If you have thousands of offers it's acceptable to wait 10-15 secs to load the market. Atm it's a problem because the offer creation menu on top of the full list... solution above.

3. I had a lot of offers because I wanted a specific item. So I searched for the item, found e.g. 5 offers with it. Most often I did not own one of the requested item. So I placed 5 offers for the requested items. You think that's desperate? Cmon...

4. For me it's not about gold... atm I have pole items and I want 2H items. A few weeks ago I had 1h items and I wanted pole items. That was not a big problem... it was easy to get them. And again.. I always need another player who wanted to get rid of something.

I used the offers of other player! It's not only about my 6 offers.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market - Conclusion
Post by: Kingtrisp on October 03, 2011, 12:58:28 pm
Having a weekly timer on offers on the market was a good idea, however changing the amount on offers was not.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market - Conclusion
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 05, 2011, 07:41:02 pm
Kherr you should also respect the opinions of the other guys that voted like me.
No opinion is false or right in this situation...
I voted for 6 is enough because the marketplace was full of crappy fun offers and very slow because of that and i dont think your solution makes it better ...
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market - Conclusion
Post by: Penitent on October 05, 2011, 08:57:32 pm
I think using the board to work out a deal works, but it's inefficient.  You have to scroll and click a lot..read threads...try to figure out what they are asking for, ect. 

It would be much better to be able to post all possible trades on the market.  Then if you are looking for what you can get for your Italian Sword, you can search for it and ALL people trading ANY of their items for an italian sword would come up.  It would be much more efficient.

The boards would still be very necessary for haggling, working our special deals, and the like...but having the all of WTS/WTT/WTB options on the market by default would be much better.
Title: Re: More Offers on the Website Market - Conclusion
Post by: Kherr on October 07, 2011, 09:33:43 am
Quote from: sF_Guardian on October 05, 2011, 07:41:02 pm
Kherr you should also respect the opinions of the other guys that voted like me.
No opinion is false or right in this situation...
I voted for 6 is enough because the marketplace was full of crappy fun offers and very slow because of that and i dont think your solution makes it better ...
Hi Guardian,
thx for your message.
You have an advantage. For you 6 offers are enough... and the technical solution supports 6 offers.
For me (I explained my way to do a lot of trades only with the market and a lot of crosstrades above) 6 offers are not enough. And my opinion is not implemented.

So I respect your opinion, but I want a technical change. So imo I have to discuss with the people who say "6 offers are enough". I want to know the reasons why they dont want more then 6 offers. And then we can think about a technical solution.

If you limit the amount of offers you forbid a lot of people to offer their items. And you should have a good cause to do that.

So far it seems there are two main issues:
 - speed
 - people see offers they dont want to see (e.g. fun offers)

I only had a problem with the speed when I organized my offers, so I suggested to move that into a separate page. Imho most fun offers will disappear because of the timelife of offers. Fun offers are atm also possible. Perhaps its possible to add additional search fields. Then we could search more specific.

(Technical note according speed. If you open the market there happen two things. Your browser downloads the page and then Javascript routines format (and some more things) the table. Depending on your computer the Javascript part takes a lot of time. The most player have a decent internet connection, so the download is imho not the problem. Perhaps we find a technical solution for the Javascript part, e.g. Ajax, or a simple search button. Atm we see the full table in beginning... needed?)

The market should be best for trading. And they changed it (decrease amount of offers) to make it more useful for players. So the amount of trades should have been increased after the patch. If the amount of trades decreased there is something wrong.
So let us take a look at the statistic in a few weeks.