cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: Herald_Hardrata on September 28, 2011, 06:04:18 pm

Title: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 28, 2011, 06:04:18 pm
Since the game isn't historically limited to medieval age, and gunpowder era armor and (non-gunpowder) weapons are considered acceptable, I would like to point out that Hussars used really long lances. (We already have hussar helmets, we just use the turkish name for them.) This being the case, should we really be banning people for using a pike on horseback?

Quote
The kopia lance was the main offensive weapon of the hussar. The lances were based on the Balkan (Serbian) and finally Hungarian lances except the Polish lances could have been longer and, like their predecessors from the Balkans and Western Europe, they were hollowed, with two halves glued together and painted, and even often richly gilded. They were commonly made from fir-wood, with the lance point being made from forged steel. They had a gałka large wooden ball which served as the handle guard. The hussar's lance usually ranged from 4.5 to 6.20 meters in length.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_hussars#Weaponry


The length of the pike varried dramatically over history, but there were definitely pikes that were the same size as Hussar lances.

Quote
The pike was an extremely long weapon, varying considerably in size, from 3 to 7.5 metres (10 to 25 feet) long.[2] It had a wooden shaft with an iron or steel spearhead affixed. The shaft near the head was often reinforced with metal strips called "cheeks" or langets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_%28weapon%29#Design


Feel free to comment about how you voted.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Trollses on September 28, 2011, 06:06:36 pm
Do you even know what balance is?
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 28, 2011, 06:07:36 pm
I say no, for balance reasons.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Torben on September 28, 2011, 06:07:58 pm
lol
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Shik on September 28, 2011, 06:08:25 pm
"they were hollowed"
keywords. pikes aren't hollow.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: TurmoilTom on September 28, 2011, 06:12:59 pm
Whoops. I cast my vote wrong. I vote "yes"

It should be bannable for balance reasons.

A quick question, though. If it is bannable, why can't the devs make it unusable on horseback? I understand that they would have if they could, but what is preventing them?

Edit: Remove vote button? why didn't i see that earlier...
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Serfonz on September 28, 2011, 06:14:40 pm
Length makes it too powerful on horseback.

Edit: Keep confusing myself.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 28, 2011, 06:15:16 pm
"they were hollowed"
keywords. pikes aren't hollow.

We could just make them weigh less when used on horseback. Simple coding fix right?
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 28, 2011, 06:15:40 pm
Errr... you should have voted yes then
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 06:22:25 pm
Or just bring in a new, really long lance with like 50 speed and damage equal to the weakest lance.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Torben on September 28, 2011, 06:24:17 pm
Or just bring in a new, really long lance with like 50 speed and damage equal to the weakest lance.

50 speed would make it way to powerful with the speedbonus.  also why the fuck would anyone want a longer lance.  are you guys gay?  lancers would be no better than archers.  cumgulping transvestite pussies. 
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 06:30:05 pm
50 speed would make it way to powerful with the speedbonus.  also why the fuck would anyone want a longer lance.  are you guys gay?  lancers would be no better than archers.  cumgulping transvestite pussies.

Huh? Fire and sword has 300 length lances, with shit speed(like 60 compared to almost 80 on everything else).

With WSE it shouldn't be hard to change the hit to be at the tip. Meaning you'd have to be REALLY damn good with thrusting to hit.(making couching with it better than thrusting)
(Fire and sword also has lance's crush through blocks if the horse is fast enough which if you ask me would be nicer than a longer lance)

Someone's also obviously a 2h. But cavalry WERE powerful.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Vibe on September 28, 2011, 06:34:08 pm
Do you even know what balance is?
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Torben on September 28, 2011, 06:39:51 pm
Huh? Fire and sword has 300 length lances, with shit speed(like 60 compared to almost 80 on everything else).

With WSE it shouldn't be hard to change the hit to be at the tip. Meaning you'd have to be REALLY damn good with thrusting to hit.(making couching with it better than thrusting)
(Fire and sword also has lance's crush through blocks if the horse is fast enough which if you ask me would be nicer than a longer lance)

Someone's also obviously a 2h. But cavalry WERE powerful.

the slower the weapons speed the higher its speed bonus damage.  and this aint fire and sword.  and the game is balanced now,  so why the fuck would we need longer lances.
unless we were cumgulping transvestite pussies.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Leshma on September 28, 2011, 06:48:46 pm
Why for the love of god we have realism discussion sub-forum? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 06:49:51 pm
A game is never balanced. It's always "Balanced enough for the masses" but someone will always find a way to get SOMETHING unbalanced. This is CRPG. We break the mod.

There should be one lance that's thrust is long enough to beat all BUT the "Pike" in length.(not couch but regular attack).

Also, if what you said about speed of weapon and speed bonus, how come so many people dropped the Heavy lance when it's speed was in the upper 60's(a 6 point drop?). Because it's balls to try and time it. Image that with a weapon of like 250 length and trying to hit someone with a near 2 second delay on the swing from release!

@ Leshma: SO all those, LONGBOWS KILLED EVERYTHING, LOOK AT AGINCOURT people can vent somewhere.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 28, 2011, 06:52:24 pm
Why for the love of god we have realism discussion sub-forum? :rolleyes:

So we can finally read the other two serious boards and not have to slog through the silly "realism" stuff, for it will all be moved to here.

AKA this:
@ Leshma: SO all those, LONGBOWS KILLED EVERYTHING, LOOK AT AGINCOURT people can vent somewhere.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 28, 2011, 06:59:27 pm
Why for the love of god we have realism discussion sub-forum? :rolleyes:

The Mods made a sub-forum just for my posts. I feel honored.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Torben on September 28, 2011, 07:01:49 pm
Also, if what you said about speed of weapon and speed bonus, how come so many people dropped the Heavy lance when it's speed was in the upper 60's(a 6 point drop?). Because it's balls to try and time it. Image that with a weapon of like 250 length and trying to hit someone with a near 2 second delay on the swing from release!


dude,  i dont mean no harm.  you are just plane wrong.  i would kill to get the slow heavy lance back.  they made it faster to counter the high damage bonus.  and every good eu lancer used the heavy lance.

but the topic aint about this.  and the heavy lance beets every weapon but the long spear and pike (if they are in good hands)  so i dont see a need for a longer lance.

also,  i cearly am too much aon the forum todays.  i´m outa here for now
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 07:05:24 pm

dude,  i dont mean no harm.  you are just plane wrong.  i would kill to get the slow heavy lance back.  they made it faster to counter the high damage bonus.  and every good eu lancer used the heavy lance.

but the topic aint about this.  and the heavy lance beets every weapon but the long spear and pike (if they are in good hands)  so i dont see a need for a longer lance.

also,  i cearly am too much aon the forum todays.  i´m outa here for now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF410IN1hME&feature=related

Well, I like lancers. I kill lancers all the time. Lances suck and a simple turn or "air break" and they miss. But I'm NA, so our lancers just suck i guess and EU is obviously more skilled lancers.

(ALso personal best, I depopulated a server yesterday with my build. 11people to 2(counting me), HC so fun).
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Torben on September 28, 2011, 07:13:21 pm
Well, I like lancers. I kill lancers all the time. Lances suck and a simple turn or "air break" and they miss. But I'm NA, so our lancers just suck i guess and EU is obviously more skilled lancers.
(ALso personal best, I depopulated a server yesterday with my build. 11people to 2(counting me), HC so fun).

i meant beats them in length,  as an answer to this: 
There should be one lance that's thrust is long enough to beat all BUT the "Pike" in length.(not couch but regular attack).

so stop hatin -.-

and i said eu,  because i cant talk about NA,  and was answering to this:
how come so many people dropped the Heavy lance when it's speed was in the upper 60's(a 6 point drop?). Because it's balls to try and time it.
so stop the hatin here too.  meh.

and i know that a skilled ranged cant be beaten but by surprise by an unshielded lancer. you aint the only dude who´s been around for a while,  imagine that.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 07:20:46 pm
so stop hatin -.-

and i said eu,  because i cant talk about NA,  and was answering to this:so stop the hatin here too.  meh.

and i know that a skilled ranged cant be beaten but by surprise by an unshielded lancer. you aint the only dude who´s been around for a while,  imagine that.

My NA post was sarcasm. There's quite a few NA cavalry that are good. And I generally beat them. Hate armored horsies though.
I'm a Horse crossbow, It's hard to catch unawares. I spend more time reloading than I do firing. :)

Still Pike is 300 length, the longest horse usable weapon is only 175(or is it 180 can't remember Hlance range).  The lance I said should BEAT the longspear in range. Only the pike should not be beaten. So i don't see anything wrong with a 250 length lance.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Jarlek on September 28, 2011, 07:24:33 pm
My NA post was sarcasm. There's quite a few NA cavalry that are good. And I generally beat them. Hate armored horsies though.
I'm a Horse crossbow, It's hard to catch unawares. I spend more time reloading than I do firing. :)

Still Pike is 300 length, the longest horse usable weapon is only 175(or is it 180 can't remember Hlance range).  The lance I said should BEAT the longspear in range. Only the pike should not be beaten. So i don't see anything wrong with a 250 length lance.
Yes. Make it slow and with low damage, meaning it basically is only usefull when you have a nice speed bonus. HEAD ON CHARGES! :D
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Torben on September 28, 2011, 07:27:10 pm
My NA post was sarcasm. There's quite a few NA cavalry that are good. And I generally beat them. Hate armored horsies though.
I'm a Horse crossbow, It's hard to catch unawares. I spend more time reloading than I do firing. :)

Still Pike is 300 length, the longest horse usable weapon is only 175(or is it 180 can't remember Hlance range).  The lance I said should BEAT the longspear in range. Only the pike should not be beaten. So i don't see anything wrong with a 250 length lance.


hm,  ya its 190.  the heavy lance.  i know there are good NA cavs,  dont worry.  just wanted to make sure i aint one of those this n that continent elitists. 

well,  i think its only fair that even a twohander has a standing chance to dehorse a lancer with some luck.  every class should have a fighting chance against the other.  so we just disagree on this,  no harm.

btw there is a mw light xbow on the market atm,  seller is lars.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Bulzur on September 28, 2011, 07:50:13 pm
I voted no... because i got fouled by the title of the topic. Luckily, i noticed it, and voted "yes", as i intended.

NO, Pikes on horseback should not be Legal.
Yes, Pikes on horseback should be a banable offense.

For... obvious balance reason. And obvious realism reason : the pike used here is designed for infantry, not hollow, and very long. No way a cavalry can use it.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 07:50:41 pm

hm,  ya its 190.  the heavy lance.  i know there are good NA cavs,  dont worry.  just wanted to make sure i aint one of those this n that continent elitists. 

well,  i think its only fair that even a twohander has a standing chance to dehorse a lancer with some luck.  every class should have a fighting chance against the other.  so we just disagree on this,  no harm.

btw there is a mw light xbow on the market atm,  seller is lars.

Already got and MW bolts to go with it. Also a +2 dest.
I Got my HC build all perfect. Even got +3 body armor!(Gen 13)

Yes. Make it slow and with low damage, meaning it basically is only usefull when you have a nice speed bonus. HEAD ON CHARGES! :D
Yes
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: SchokoSchaf on September 29, 2011, 07:49:30 am
Why for the love of god we have realism discussion sub-forum? :rolleyes:
Fun Fun Fun
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Smoothrich on September 29, 2011, 09:24:39 am
bring back the lance of compensation, you already had the perfect couch only lance in the game, but had to remove it due entirely to DaveUKR lobbying, if I recall correctly.  He convinced you fools to try to make it one use only before it breaks, and then cmp or somebody just removed it entirely.  This was the beginning of the great decline of game balance.  At this point, archers can 3 shot even champion cataphracts with their outrageously high damage output.  To restore order, the lance of compensation must return.

Pike on horseback is OP because you can thrust with it by the way, but the lance of comp was extremely well balanced.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 29, 2011, 09:56:24 am
50 speed would make it way to powerful with the speedbonus.  also why the fuck would anyone want a longer lance.  are you guys gay?  lancers would be no better than archers.  cumgulping transvestite pussies.
No, that isn't the way speed bonuses work in melee. Slower missile speed makes gravity and such have a greater effect to projectile damage but that has nothing to do with weapon speed regarding melee.
Melee speed bonuses refer to the characters directions towards each other on the terrain...

Unless of course you are suggesting it should be usable on horseback and be a throwable item, in which case I agree whole-heartedly.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Torben on September 29, 2011, 11:05:43 am
No, that isn't the way speed bonuses work in melee.

due to false programming the slower the weapon speed on horseback,  the higher the speed damage bonus this weapon gets.  sorry mate,  its not logical but its how WARBAND not crpg alone works.  this was the reason for elevating the hl speed after primarily nerfing it.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 29, 2011, 04:19:37 pm
Yes, and they should have 100 speed and do 50 pierce damage.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Dezilagel on September 29, 2011, 05:13:29 pm
There's quite a few NA cavalry that are good.

I generally beat them.

I'm a Horse crossbow.

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It's hard to catch unawares.

lol.
Title: Re: Should Pikes on Horseback be Legal?
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 30, 2011, 05:58:25 pm
(click to show/hide)

I ist confused.