cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Xant on September 14, 2011, 12:20:13 pm

Title: Shieldbash
Post by: Xant on September 14, 2011, 12:20:13 pm
Been suggested before, but now with WSE... would it be possible to simply give Kick a new shieldbash animation?
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: MaHuD on September 14, 2011, 01:21:02 pm
Shieldbash is in Elvenpath, it's pretty fun but it may make Shielders very strong due to an increased range of the kick.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Digglez on September 14, 2011, 07:08:19 pm
Quote from: MaHuD on September 14, 2011, 01:21:02 pm
Shieldbash is in Elvenpath, it's pretty fun but it may make Shielders very strong due to an increased range of the kick.

shielders SHOULD be strong.  there is a good reason shields were used thorough history.  in the case of highlanders and hoplites, often times shield was just as deadly as their weapons.  A solid hit from bronze covered Spartan round shield is enough to break skulls and kill instantly.

besides a bash, shields also need a stronger/wider 'shove' move to push people away or back
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: MaHuD on September 14, 2011, 07:10:24 pm
By that logic, can we also buff Cav back to a godlike status?

Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Digglez on September 14, 2011, 07:12:24 pm
Quote from: MaHuD on September 14, 2011, 07:10:24 pm
By that logic, can we also buff Cav back to a godlike status?

cav wasnt godlike by any means. bring a pointed stick or bow and arrow

I'm a shielder and obviously want them buffed to be more realistic.  But I also support stuff like giving 2h/polearms get some sort of cleave ability.  If you swing a flamberge, some naked peasant is going to stop the swing and it should continue going thru people
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: San on September 14, 2011, 07:29:08 pm
Shields have enough counters anyways:

Mauls
Axes
Couched lance
bumpslash
Xbow through shield
Decreased speed leaving you vulnerable against multiple opponents/ more useless in 2v1
Faster/More offensive shields break much faster

I'm not sure if a shield bash would even be useful, especially like the kick where you're immobile. It would be a nice touch, though.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: deathbringer521 on September 14, 2011, 11:57:32 pm
yes
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Reinhardt on September 15, 2011, 12:28:09 am
Quote from: san. on September 14, 2011, 07:29:08 pm
Shields have enough counters anyways:

Mauls
Axes
Couched lance
bumpslash
Xbow through shield
Decreased speed leaving you vulnerable against multiple opponents/ more useless in 2v1
Faster/More offensive shields break much faster

I'm not sure if a shield bash would even be useful, especially like the kick where you're immobile. It would be a nice touch, though.

Don't forget the sidestep slash through shield and into your chest animation + the occasional 2h/polearm through shield...

But honestly, a small buff like exchanging kick for shield bash (maybe 3/4 second stun, maybe even 1/2 second stun) would be helpful for shielders all while not causing a huge impact on play-style change.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 12:43:52 am
Quote from: Digglez on September 14, 2011, 07:12:24 pm
But I also support stuff like giving 2h/polearms get some sort of cleave ability.  If you swing a flamberge, some naked peasant is going to stop the swing and it should continue going thru people

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Unless you want to give a realistic ability to the shielders (shove/push) and an unrealistic one for the 2 handers.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Jarlek on September 15, 2011, 12:56:33 am
Quote from: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 12:43:52 am
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Unless you want to give a realistic ability to the shielders (shove/push) and an unrealistic one for the 2 handers.
We coooould, THROW the shield at people for over 9000 damage and 100% accuracy?
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 01:05:22 am
Anytime, but I dont have a shield.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Jarlek on September 15, 2011, 01:09:04 am
Quote from: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 01:05:22 am
Anytime, but I dont have a shield.
You coooould, throw your boots or helmet? Only 8000 damage, but then they ARE lighter than a shield (maybe plate should be the same damage)
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: kinngrimm on September 15, 2011, 01:29:15 am
+1 for shield bash  :twisted: the more weight a shield has the bigger impact the bash should have
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Digglez on September 15, 2011, 01:34:15 am
Quote from: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 12:43:52 am
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Unless you want to give a realistic ability to the shielders (shove/push) and an unrealistic one for the 2 handers.

claymore can decapitate 2-3 men easily.  katanas can easily slice thru an entire human and into next one.  morningstars and heavy hammers can knock enemies into each other.  spears can easily completely impale and hit people behind the first target.  you dont know how weak the human body is or your weapons very well.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Tomas on September 15, 2011, 01:00:48 pm
Quote from: Digglez on September 15, 2011, 01:34:15 am
claymore can decapitate 2-3 men easily.  katanas can easily slice thru an entire human and into next one.  morningstars and heavy hammers can knock enemies into each other.  spears can easily completely impale and hit people behind the first target.  you dont know how weak the human body is or your weapons very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3nAuowwqhI&feature=related - an interesting video showing the cutting power of a Katana (and other swords if you watch the other videos)

The only thing I would point out is that in order to cut through most of the things they are using, they have to swing very hard or even take a run up.  This leaves them open to a counter every time, and if someone swinging this hard ever missed their target they would definitely be screwed and possibily even hurt themselves.

I'd therefore say that most intelligent warriors would not be aiming to cleave people in 2 or decapitate them and cRPG has it right without this happening. 
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 02:47:55 pm
Quote from: Digglez on September 15, 2011, 01:34:15 am
claymore can decapitate 2-3 men easily.

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Quote from: Digglez on September 15, 2011, 01:34:15 am
katanas can easily slice thru an entire human and into next one
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Quote from: Digglez on September 15, 2011, 01:34:15 am
your weapons very well.

I have a practical sword, I could kill you with it without batting an eyelash, do you?
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Jarlek on September 15, 2011, 03:01:25 pm
Quote from: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 02:47:55 pm
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I have a practical sword, I could kill you with it without batting an eyelash, do you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
You probably want to check this out :D

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: HarunYahya on September 15, 2011, 03:07:04 pm
Quote from: Xant on September 14, 2011, 12:20:13 pm
Been suggested before, but now with WSE... would it be possible to simply give Kick a new shieldbash animation?
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: venrich_III on September 16, 2011, 12:46:16 am
Quote from: Digglez on September 14, 2011, 07:08:19 pm
besides a bash, shields also need a stronger/wider 'shove' move to push people away or back

Yes! I love the idea of having a little 'push power' behind a shield. Just enough to nudge (Very slowly) forward with a peice of gear that likely weighs 50+ pounds - seems to make sense.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Bobthehero on September 16, 2011, 12:48:21 am
Quote from: Zapper on September 15, 2011, 03:01:25 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
You probably want to check this out :D

(click to show/hide)

Fairly sure it was not, Hollywood and animes give out a real bullshitty picture of combat in general.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 04:29:18 am
Main reason I'd like to see this is because it'd make shield combat look more.. dynamic. You know, like real 1h+shield combat. And less turtle-like. Doesn't even have to be that good, I'd still use it :(
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Mechanix on September 16, 2011, 05:42:14 am
Quote from: Tomas on September 15, 2011, 01:00:48 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3nAuowwqhI&feature=related - an interesting video showing the cutting power of a Katana (and other swords if you watch the other videos)

The only thing I would point out is that in order to cut through most of the things they are using, they have to swing very hard or even take a run up.  This leaves them open to a counter every time, and if someone swinging this hard ever missed their target they would definitely be screwed and possibily even hurt themselves.

I'd therefore say that most intelligent warriors would not be aiming to cleave people in 2 or decapitate them and cRPG has it right without this happening.

Well you have to remember, warriors were also incredible built with very strong core bodies with good control.
Those guys don't exactly look like someone I would imagine on a battlefield during that time.

They also most likely have not had years of training.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 05:51:04 am
The video is cute. "Look, this katana can even cut through a bottle of juice. But that's not all! NOW IT CUTS THROUGH THREE BOTTLES OF JUICE!!!"
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Bobthehero on September 16, 2011, 08:26:03 am
Oh my god, I cut through 4 bottles of juice with a 1 handed arming sword, I must be a god of war.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: ToxicKilla on September 16, 2011, 08:35:44 am
Quote from: Digglez on September 15, 2011, 01:34:15 am
claymore can decapitate 2-3 men easily. katanas can easily slice thru an entire human and into next one.  morningstars and heavy hammers can knock enemies into each other.  spears can easily completely impale and hit people behind the first target.  you dont know how weak the human body is or your weapons very well.
Katana aint all they are made out to be, it's all just E-hype. But a completely unarmoured guy, maybe it could, if the wielder is very strong. However, a nodachi is more likely to achieve slicing through a man due to it's length. Back in the day many were poorly made, and passed down through generations.

On topic:
We NEED shield bash, similar to that of the 1257AD mod.
You know that stumble animation you get from being hit with a polearm? It could cause you to do that, but move further back, and deal a small amount of damage. Also should depend on shield weight, and heavier shields can knock men onto the ground. Would be really nice, seeing as shielders are kinda under-powered a little. It could also cause a few more people to decide to go shielder, and then ranged would be detered a little more.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 09:18:37 am
People really underestimate how strong the human body is. The most proof I've seen of this amazing cutting powahh is people slicing dead pigs. "THE BODY STRUCTURE IS JUST LIKE A HUMAN!!"

But no. There's a huge difference between a dead pig hanging from a hook and a live human. It's not easy at all to cut through a man... first of all you have all the muscles. If you ever tried stabbing someone, the human flesh will 'eat' the blade - it'll be extremely hard to pull even a knife out once you stick it in... there's a reason why kurare etc are used in surgeries to relax the muscles. Even small tension makes muscles harder, and when 'escaping pain' turns almost as hard as stone, moreso than what you can achieve intentionally by trying. You have none of this in dead piglets or cows.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: OttomanSniper on September 16, 2011, 09:24:44 am
Its realistic but archers cant shot shielders foot or head, is this realistic ?
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 09:30:56 am
Quote from: OttomanSniper on September 16, 2011, 09:24:44 am
Its realistic but archers cant shot shielders foot or head, is this realistic ?

Shielders can't fine tune where their shield is, is this realistic? You need to move your whole camera to move it up/down a bit.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: OttomanSniper on September 16, 2011, 10:26:28 am
Quote from: Xant on September 16, 2011, 09:30:56 am
Shielders can't fine tune where their shield is, is this realistic? You need to move your whole camera to move it up/down a bit.

I dont disapprove ur suggestion, all realistic suggestions +1 for me. And +1 for this suggestion.

I only say another unreal issue.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: gazda on September 16, 2011, 10:38:37 am
I wouldnt add it, shielders would be too strong, they are well balanced now and easy to play with. With that, it would make them op
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 10:47:25 am
Quote from: gazda on September 16, 2011, 10:38:37 am
I wouldnt add it, shielders would be too strong, they are well balanced now and easy to play with. With that, it would make them op

What, exactly, would make them too strong? You should quote who you're talking to.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: gazda on September 16, 2011, 11:48:43 am
i was refering to original post
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 11:49:27 am
Quote from: gazda on September 16, 2011, 11:48:43 am
i was refering to original post

Ok, that's curious then. How, exactly, would an animation change on something that can't be blocked in the first place make 1h+shield more powerful? How would it change balance at all? I suggested no buffs in the OP.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 16, 2011, 01:27:53 pm
There is also a shieldbash in dev1257, former 1257 aD mod.

Make it as it is there. When you block and press left mouse button, there is a chance that your char hits with his shield. When you works people stumble or fall to the ground.
In 1257ad it works like that, but it doesn't always work. Sometimes nothing happens. And it is a risk for shielders, because the moment they bash, they are open and can be shot......experienced that alot of times, although it's singleplayer^^
I shieldbashed someone to the ground and got shot meanwhile :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Jarlek on September 16, 2011, 05:07:35 pm
Quote from: Xant on September 16, 2011, 04:29:18 am
Main reason I'd like to see this is because it'd make shield combat look more.. dynamic. You know, like real 1h+shield combat. And less turtle-like. Doesn't even have to be that good, I'd still use it :(
Quoted for agreement.

(OMG what have I done! Agreed with XANT! xD)
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Centurion on September 16, 2011, 09:53:30 pm
ive been wanting this forever lol and duel swords :)
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Snoozer on September 17, 2011, 10:43:55 am
i would love it and i use shields like 4% of the time.Y is the shield not implemented as a weapon in the first place?lots of shields were designed with that duel purpose in mind,.

t would be nice if it was deeply implemented where if u hit x on ur shield it would be more offensive or defensive like if the defensive stance it would only bump and have the same defensive ability as it has now with the front in the offensive stance you could attack with the edge of it  like a weapon but with the right click( like <^> would be attack and down would b block) and it would b less defensive

.it would make shields deadly in close combat(point blank range) but it would have to buff the surrounding classes to compensate somehow how idk i didnt think that far ahead
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Joxer on September 17, 2011, 10:53:50 am
Remove kick completely. Add:
1) Shield bash for shielder.
2) Strike with the middle of a pole for polearms
3) Pommel strike for 1h and 2h
4) Rest can just be without anything
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Snoozer on September 17, 2011, 10:59:30 am
GENIUS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

btw by pummel u mean punch them in the face yes?
or like a some sort of hit with the handle part of weapon?
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 11:10:06 am
+ 1
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Joxer on September 17, 2011, 12:30:06 pm
Yep pommel stricke with the handle of the weapon or pommel if it has one.
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Snoozer on September 17, 2011, 12:33:48 pm
i c i like your idea alot i never like the kick animation it just never correctly connect whenever i used it but maybe if i have like a pole push formation like im cloths lining him maybe ill hit more
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: kinngrimm on September 17, 2011, 06:16:07 pm
Quote from: Joxer on September 17, 2011, 10:53:50 am
Remove kick completely. Add:
1) Shield bash for shielder.
2) Strike with the middle of a pole for polearms
3) Pommel strike for 1h and 2h
4) Rest can just be without anything
and kickslash only for archers and xbow :)
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Snoozer on September 17, 2011, 11:55:37 pm
hmmm y not  a punch for archers and a bash with the butt of the crossbow for crossbows?
Title: Re: Shieldbash
Post by: Ironclaw on September 18, 2011, 02:28:43 pm
Quote from: Joxer on September 17, 2011, 10:53:50 am
Remove kick completely. Add:
1) Shield bash for shielder.
2) Strike with the middle of a pole for polearms
3) Pommel strike for 1h and 2h
4) Rest can just be without anything

i would give it a try