cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Bjord on January 25, 2011, 11:08:41 am

Title: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Bjord on January 25, 2011, 11:08:41 am: Goddamn it, you silly people who design the maps:

1. MAPS AREN'T ARTWORKS, THEY ARE MAPS. THE DIFFERENCE LIES BETWEEN CONCERN FOR BALANCE AND PLAYABILITY, CONTRA AESTHETICS. STOP MAKING SLOPED MAPS YOU PIECES OF- gosh darned silly-pants!

2. This is a semi-rage post.

3. Please bug-test the map, run around on it etc. before adding it to rotation. More flat maps with less hills/slopes is way more enjoyable (of course, with considerable amount of cover), and I think everyone agrees on that point, disregarding that this is a rage thread. This game isn't called Mountain Camp :/.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Phazey on January 25, 2011, 11:24:08 am: Looks like Bjord is volunteering to bugtest maps? :lol:
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Bjord on January 25, 2011, 05:38:39 pm: Do I get a unique status for that?

If so, sure. I need more e-peen.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Phyrex on January 25, 2011, 06:07:01 pm: I'm gonna jump aboard the ragetrain aswell!

Get rid of the damn 'random village' maps and get some real ones, god damn it!
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 25, 2011, 06:11:42 pm: give link to map editor tools
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Nasturtium on January 25, 2011, 06:12:32 pm: Quote from: Bjord on January 25, 2011, 11:08:41 am
Goddamn it, you silly people who design the maps:

1. MAPS AREN'T ARTWORKS, THEY ARE MAPS. THE DIFFERENCE LIES BETWEEN CONCERN FOR BALANCE AND PLAYABILITY, CONTRA AESTHETICS. STOP MAKING SLOPED MAPS YOU PIECES OF- gosh darned silly-pants!

2. This is a semi-rage post.

3. Please bug-test the map, run around on it etc. before adding it to rotation. More flat maps with less hills/slopes is way more enjoyable (of course, with considerable amount of cover), and I think everyone agrees on that point, disregarding that this is a rage thread. This game isn't called Mountain Camp :/.

I am glad you actually took the time to post your oppinion here, thanks! As a beginning mapper I cannot overstate how important it is to get feedback from players. That being said, if you have a problem with a specific map post it in the map dev thread and you might be surprised how quickly it will be tweaked, otherwise we don't know what you are talking about.

Also: are you volunteering to bug test our maps =) its hard to find anyone to do this, hence the problems.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Kong Ming on January 25, 2011, 06:36:43 pm: Quote from: Chagan_Arslan on January 25, 2011, 06:11:42 pm
give link to map editor tools

Easy Guide:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1385.0.html

Complicated (but more thorough) Guide:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,112508.0.html

Bjord:

Thanks for submitting, even if it is semi-rage. I agree with Nasturtium, feedback always helps. Please post your specific concerns for a specific map in the Map Development Thread. Unfortunately, the maps on the servers are made by many different people, some who read these forums, and some who I am sure do not. If it's a map that one of us is responsible for, I'm sure we will work to address the issue as soon as possible. Unfortunately, there is no good way to playtest maps other than putting them on the server to see how players play them. There are a few things we can do on our own to look for glitches or other issues, but it's my experience that the player community will always discover ten times more about your map than you ever can on your own. Game balance in particular also relies heavily on seeing how players decide to approach your map, which is frequently very different than your design intentions. Since this is a fairly small community being developed by independent modders and mappers, we only have the actual servers themselves on which to test these things and find out how they are working. It would be great if we could be more organized about hosting new maps for a trial time, getting feedback from players, taking them back down, and rehosting them after improvements. But unfortunately, a lot of the people making the maps, running the servers, and play-testing the maps, are different people on different schedules. If you have ideas about how we can improve this system, I definitely want to hear them. Thanks again!
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Bjord on January 29, 2011, 07:07:31 pm: Sounds good, I might even get around to fixing the scene editor. I'm quite creative if I may say so myself, and I already tried the scene editor once.

Personally the trial periods for maps is the most optimized idea for adding new maps, and we could have a group of dedicated people that regularly play to give C&C for the new maps.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Kong Ming on January 31, 2011, 05:33:15 am: Thanks for getting back to us. Please feel free to provide C&C for anything you play on this board. We really do want to hear what the players think. Making maps that people enjoy is of course more desirable than the alternative. If you feel like getting into editing yourself, check out my guides above and feel free to bug me on IRC for tips.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: John on January 31, 2011, 12:29:59 pm: I have to agree with this thread, no matter how lovely a map is, any pleasure form the aesthetics is immediately lost for me if it's annoying to play on. My personal pet peeve is when mappers leave lots of uneven surfaces everywhere that disrupt your movement or force you to jump over small obstacles.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Lamix on January 31, 2011, 11:15:58 pm: I just started to make a map today, its my first attempt even using the editor only had about 2hours to do this but liking what i've done so far, hopefully i will be able to get more done tomorrow, pulled me back at work today doubt i'll be going in tomorrow.

I'm trying to make a town map thats big enough for a big battle and people still use horses and archers without too much restriction.

(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Suggestions are welcome, and like i said its my first attempt and Thanks to Kong Ming for you're starter guide and starter blank maps :D
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Kong Ming on February 01, 2011, 12:22:16 am: Glad to see you're up and running! Let me know if you have any specific questions or want help with anything, I'm on IRC most of the time. Looks like you're off to a great start, can't wait to see where it goes next! I know cav players out there will like to see a town map that doesn't hinder them too much.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Sharpsy on February 01, 2011, 12:34:39 am: i agree, aus server has 50 odd "blank" maps which are generally just random plains. its very annoying, because every 10 minutes we are seeing yet another map poll :|.

also lamix, it looks really good, just make sure you add some more cover for the archers (or the melee to hide FROM the archers). keep up the good work!
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: MountedRhader on February 01, 2011, 12:34:55 am: Map looks good lamix! :)
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Bjord on February 02, 2011, 02:56:47 pm: I won't input much more, but for the future let me know when the map design team releases something, maybe I could help with testing it also.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Kong Ming on February 03, 2011, 09:10:12 am: Well, there isn't really a map design team per se, but keep an eye on the "maps in development" thread for people posting their work. I'm sure people would love a play-tester.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Bjord on February 06, 2011, 03:51:55 pm: Quote from: Kong Ming on February 03, 2011, 09:10:12 am
Well, there isn't really a map design team per se, but keep an eye on the "maps in development" thread for people posting their work. I'm sure people would love a play-tester.

There should be one constructed, in that case. Would allow more creative brainstorming for all designers, and feedback would reach designers whom the feedback wasn't directed to in the first place and still achieve same end result. Better maps, in general.

BTW isn't your avatar from Romance of the Three Kingdoms?
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on February 06, 2011, 05:43:15 pm: Quote from: Bjord on February 02, 2011, 02:56:47 pm
I won't input much more, but for the future let me know when the map design team releases something, maybe I could help with testing it also.

how are you going to test map just curious? are you going to implement it on server and test with others ? or are you gonna play with bots ?
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Nasturtium on February 06, 2011, 08:21:23 pm: It would be nice to have a 10 man native server to test maps on.......
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: zagibu on February 06, 2011, 11:02:18 pm: The problem is: playing with less than half of max players doesn't really say much about its balance. I guess it could still be useful to get around the developer's blindness problem.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Kong Ming on February 06, 2011, 11:37:18 pm: Bot's unfortunately, are stupid. Not being humans they don't do half the things humans do, even if you make them a really good AI mesh (which takes forever anyway). Really the only good way to test maps right now is to get them on the server and watch people complain about them. Then fix what actually needs fixing and ignore what doesn't.

Quote from: Bjord on February 06, 2011, 03:51:55 pm
BTW isn't your avatar from Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

Why yes it is. Kong Ming is Zhuge Liang's other name.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: Rasputin on February 21, 2011, 08:41:23 pm: Mappers need to make more mirrored maps, less imbalance and if it works for team fortress, it can work for this.
Title: Re: [COMPLAINT] What's next - Oh... It's THIS map...
Post by: zagibu on February 22, 2011, 06:54:52 pm: I hate symmetric maps, they look so boring.