cRPG

Strategus => Strategus Issues => Topic started by: Keshian on September 06, 2011, 02:54:14 pm

Title: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Keshian on September 06, 2011, 02:54:14 pm
Right now its been increasingly abused to attacka nd use QMR, and will be even more so with high upkeep.  The best solution si to fix it so that attackers get teleported like defenders when they lose and lose 25%-50% of their troops, gold, and equipment when they retreat, lose, or run out of time.  Currrently some clans just atatck witha  different force after qmring with first force and then the first group does the same when the secodn group QMRs to allow permanent lockdown by instantaneously attacking as soon as the last battle completes with no harmful consequences other than losing 1-2 soldiers.  Please fix these highly exploitable features.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Ganner on September 06, 2011, 02:56:34 pm
I believe that would be what is called "A siege"

The object is to lock down a village or castle untill enough troops can be brought in to crush it.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: BaleOhay on September 06, 2011, 03:03:16 pm
yes but if you are retreating it should be the same as a loss and you get teleported at least. Otherwise what really is the point of running away if it has no real downside to doing it.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Keshian on September 06, 2011, 03:16:47 pm
Quote from: Ganner on September 06, 2011, 02:56:34 pm
I believe that would be what is called "A siege"

The object is to lock down a village or castle untill enough troops can be brought in to crush it.

With naked troops that when they run away just lose 1 guy an no more???
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Vovka on September 06, 2011, 03:19:09 pm
50% loose in troops and equipment will be fine i think
btw rightnow "retreat" option is fool shit
Defender have advantage for reinforce, but in same time attakers can just retreate if defenders drop more troops....
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Varyag on September 06, 2011, 06:33:46 pm
DRZ is (and always was) doing some awesome job at finding exploits....
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Karmazyn on September 06, 2011, 06:40:38 pm
Quote from: Keshian on September 06, 2011, 02:54:14 pm
Currrently some clans just atatck witha  different force after qmring with first force and then the first group does the same when the secodn group QMRs to allow permanent lockdown by instantaneously attacking as soon as the last battle completes with no harmful consequences other than losing 1-2 soldiers.  Please fix these highly exploitable features.

Druzhina ofc.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: PhantomZero on September 06, 2011, 09:20:57 pm
Sun Tzu didn't lose 50% of his men every time he retreated to lure his enemy into a trap.

The longer the battle lasts, the more you lose when retreating, which is fine.

Teleport, maybe, but not the middle of the map, and definitely not losing so much equipment/gold/troops.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Matey on September 06, 2011, 09:29:56 pm
well phantom... the thing is... they can attack with naked troops, tie up your army for 24 hours then leave with only 1-2 losses, and stay put on the map so they can attack again. I think it would make more sense if it was a minimum of 25% gear/troops lost from a retreat, and further on in the battle that number would increase to maybe 50-60%. if it goes higher than that then i dont see why anyone would retreat late in a battle since they wouldnt conserve a whole lot of anything.

before retreat was implemented, you used to have to sacrifice your entire delay army (unless enemies capped your spawn), now you have to sacrifice nothing... it needs to be reworked.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Keshian on September 06, 2011, 10:46:00 pm
Exactly, like DRZ is atatcking most of our villages with what will be naked armies to stop us from transferring for 24 hours and there will be no punishment because they can retreat, eevn if you atatck them after they lose they can rretreat and lose no troops, just get teleported.  A real retreat they woudl lose half their gold (lose baggage train to peopel you are retreating from), be teleported and maybe lose half their troops.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Dehitay on September 07, 2011, 05:03:12 am
I thought for any loss, you already lost all your remaining equipment to the winning team? Is that not the case with retreating? The title of the thread makes it seem like they're keeping equipment by retreating. I think that losing all your equipment is a valid enough punishment. But then there's obviously the ability to abuse with naked armies. Maybe there should be a minimum cost of 100 or so gold worth of equipment per retreating troop. If they didn't bring that equipment, the remainder is made up with gold instead of equipment. And if they're not carrying that much money, they just lose all the remaining troops they couldn't pay 100 gold worth of equipment or gold for.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 07, 2011, 09:26:20 pm
please fix this issue...

I can't blame kesh for using this to his advantage, but why the fuck hasn't it been addressed?

As it stands, a smaller army can attack a larger army, show up for battle and retreat, and lose nothing.  And then they can just start another attack on the same army, and potentially, just retreat again and repeat indefinitely.

if you retreat (whether you attack or defend) you should lose troops, and some gold (and/or equipment).  This is ridiculous...
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Erasmas on September 08, 2011, 12:34:47 am
I love this story. Perfect example of how the reasonable tool can be used to achieve strategical advantage, contrary to its original purpose.

QRM for attackers is nothing wrong, IMHO, if you have to face inevitable failure, it is better to run away than fight.

Penalty for retreat seems reasonable, but 50% is too much, I'd say 25% tops. I agree with Phantom, that teleport should not be random - it should be made within certain range, in the direction of its nearest units (fief another faction member etc.

Another idea - what if the retreating forces were not be able to move at all after retreat for some time, like 12 -24h? Reasonably teleported and stalled, but still able to transfer troops/eq/gold to another unit?

One another - maybe retreat should be possible after closing the window for supplying defenders and attackers, but only for some time,  like 2h. In such event the loss of troops would be lower. If you retreat during the battle, than the loss is heavy. Alternatively - every hour after supply window means, say, +5% of loss in the event of retreat before the battle. I like that one actually. That allows for using retreat for strategical reasons, but you have to pay for it - and it is your decision how much.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Cepeshi on September 08, 2011, 12:39:56 am
I support this, but i would be more for flat rate of 17percents of lost troops and equipment.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Joseph on September 09, 2011, 02:48:17 pm
Quote from: Keshian on September 06, 2011, 10:46:00 pm
Exactly, like DRZ is atatcking most of our villages with what will be naked armies to stop us from transferring for 24 hours and there will be no punishment because they can retreat, eevn if you atatck them after they lose they can rretreat and lose no troops, just get teleported.  A real retreat they woudl lose half their gold (lose baggage train to peopel you are retreating from), be teleported and maybe lose half their troops.

FIRST, the armies were naked because of the wipe, since they were engaged we couldn't reinforce them.
SECOND, we did almost win our "naked" battle, thanks to timer.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 09, 2011, 05:00:38 pm
See this still isn't be addressed...so much for testing strategus issues and getting them fixed in a timely fashion.  Guess all the devs are on vacation.
Title: Re: Attackers need be teleported and lose 25-50% of troops/gold/equipment qif lose
Post by: Hauptmann on September 10, 2011, 12:03:25 am
Quote from: Keshian on September 06, 2011, 02:54:14 pm
Right now its been increasingly abused to attacka nd use QMR, and will be even more so with high upkeep.  The best solution si to fix it so that attackers get teleported like defenders when they lose and lose 25%-50% of their troops, gold, and equipment when they retreat, lose, or run out of time.  Currrently some clans just atatck witha  different force after qmring with first force and then the first group does the same when the secodn group QMRs to allow permanent lockdown by instantaneously attacking as soon as the last battle completes with no harmful consequences other than losing 1-2 soldiers.  Please fix these highly exploitable features.

For complaining about exploits so often you seem to have no problem utilizing their advantages.