cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: zonn44 on September 02, 2011, 10:23:45 am

Title: Hiltslashing?
Post by: zonn44 on September 02, 2011, 10:23:45 am
Could somebody please describe what a 'hiltslash' is.


Thnx
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 02, 2011, 10:29:19 am
Hitting someone in the very very beginning of a swing animation. Particularly with a 2h weapon.

You swing on the opponent, move in point blank, step to the side and swing again when they swing back at you. You hit them with the hilt of your sword before the sword even hits them, and it does damage. It SHOULD GLANCE AND DO NO DAMAGE, but it does do damage, and quite a bit.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Xant on September 02, 2011, 10:38:22 am
It's also quite hard to do properly.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Kryser on September 02, 2011, 12:23:00 pm
its fuckin gay, 2hers push people around like hockey pucks,
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Digglez on September 02, 2011, 06:10:07 pm
It's also quite hard to do properly.

no its pretty easy and the people who do it routinely would have alot lower scores if talewords/crpg devs actually fixed this
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Dezilagel on September 02, 2011, 06:13:15 pm
no its pretty easy and the people who do it routinely would have alot lower scores if talewords/crpg devs actually fixed this

"Fixed"?

I don't see a problem with people hiltslashing, it's part of the game, just block twice.

And no, it's NOT that easy to do... Unless you target has no footwork or (and) is a slow-ass tincan/turtle.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Fartface on September 02, 2011, 06:16:10 pm
uhmm when i used an heavy bastard sword i found that every hilt slash i did was an succes.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Digglez on September 02, 2011, 06:19:58 pm
"Fixed"?

I don't see a problem with people hiltslashing

Yes there is a big problem when hits that should obviously EASILY be glances do full damage.  Its as bad as the polearm overheads not hitting teammates. Its an oversight/shortcoming in design/code and needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 03, 2011, 03:38:29 am
I rarely go out of my way to agree with Digglez, but he is right.
It is easy to do, and it is broken. It is so easy it is one of the few tricks I can do in EU with 200 ping consistently. I'm also going to disagree about it being easier/harder vs a tin can since that has no effect on its viability. I find it easier to do against balanced or agi builds since they move faster -- and thus more speed bonus as they step into my hiltslash. However, movement direction is the only important thing, not speed for it to work.

*note: Does not work against backpeddlers since they are by definition not close enough to hit with the hilt until they step forward or to the side. Only an idiot would try to hiltslash an S Key Hero.
They should glance. Hiltslashes should not do damage.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Casimir on September 03, 2011, 03:59:41 am
I play on eu1 and a lot and i don't see a great deal of hilt slashes during fighting.

Most of the time if people get out maneuvered they play defensively and block the incoming swing with a second side block and a rotation.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: ShinySpoons on September 03, 2011, 04:02:55 am
With 2handers and polearms its easy. Basically, for long weapons hiltslashing works, for onehanders it dosent. Doesn't make sense but there you go
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Xant on September 03, 2011, 04:58:17 am
When I say hiltslashing I mean an attack that's so fast it breaks the rhytm. Not just an attack that hits with the hilt-part. I really, really doubt that people who say it is "easy" mean the same thing. If they do, they're wrong. Very few people can do it properly and 99% of them can be countered just by proper footwork, no need to even change how you play.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 03, 2011, 06:49:06 am
When I say hiltslashing I mean an attack that's so fast it breaks the rhytm. Not just an attack that hits with the hilt-part. I really, really doubt that people who say it is "easy" mean the same thing. If they do, they're wrong. Very few people can do it properly and 99% of them can be countered just by proper footwork, no need to even change how you play.
That is a double swing or "castor swing". Different thing. Those are ultra easy to do. Anybody who does those who is worth their salt is going to swing-cancel and block if they see you swing and step in the correct direction.

That is just Two inside swings in a row; Where if the enemy does an outside swing you let your second attack complete and you hit him first. If they hold their swing, you will hit first no matter what. If they feint, you will hit first.

Hilt slashing is like a double-swing on steroids. If they come to hug you/circle you, you hiltslash and as soon as the animation starts you do damage before the sword hits since you hit with the hilt's side of the hitbox. There is no correct swing to outswing a hiltslash, just a second block. You can avoid hiltslashes with footwork -- but it is a broken part of the game mechanics. The problem still exists.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Xant on September 03, 2011, 07:35:47 am
No.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 03, 2011, 07:47:26 am
Good argument.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Xant on September 03, 2011, 07:53:58 am
As good as yours.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Paul on September 03, 2011, 08:23:40 am
It's usually pretty easy to spot someone who is going for a double attack. Actually it's a good opportunity for someone defending with a inferior weapon to score a hit. Just block twice while focussing on moving around the attacker. He's usually so occupied with turning in his attacks that one can get his back after blocking the second hit.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Xant on September 03, 2011, 08:31:11 am
Indeed. Someone who does it properly won't give you a chance to do that, though.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 03, 2011, 08:33:26 am
Hiltslashes are a different thing. They are near instant and Those should glance. I honestly don't know why they don't. It makes no sense, it is like the sweetspot mechanism is too weak/bugged.

I use hiltslashes defensively mostly. Lets say I went to double swing on paul, and he started to circle me. My second attack would be blocked according to him. Ok... I then start a hiltslash and hit him since getting around me requires touching me.
And a hiltslash requires contact or near contact.

Also paul, you just gave me two free swings on you to block in that scenario :X. I could even kick you if you do that.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Paul on September 03, 2011, 09:19:20 am
Nope.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Xant on September 03, 2011, 10:27:50 am
You know Marathon, instead of making your posts two, three times longer by editing than what people first replied to, maybe you could make a new post instead.

And as Paul says.. "Nope."
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Razzen on September 03, 2011, 12:27:11 pm
Hiltslashes are not a big problem, its easy to see when somebody is going to do it and its easy to counter it. Also you can do it with a pole and a 2her, but you can actually also do it with a 1h, its just a bit harder.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Jordrok on September 07, 2011, 07:58:20 pm
You know Marathon, instead of making your posts two, three times longer by editing than what people first replied to, maybe you could make a new post instead.

And as Paul says.. "Nope."

The reason his posts are longer than yours is because he has a valid argument and you don't.  It's a broken mechanic that should not be in the game.  Period.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Darkkarma on September 07, 2011, 08:05:54 pm
Hilt slashing is actually easy enough to do, even with heavy strength builds that tend to lumber around a bit. I don't much care for it at all to be perfectly honest. I can't use the realism argument because of how hypocritical it would be, so i'll just say that I think it's dumb.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on September 07, 2011, 08:14:47 pm
The problem i have with hiltslashing is that when i expect the weapon to glance when it has no speed so i try to get a second swing, and instead i get hit with a full force attack that shouldve glanced. This happens alot when i fight onehanders aswell.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: tankmen on September 07, 2011, 08:29:09 pm
i've noticed hilt slashing with people who favor side swings a lot such as 2h using the Miaodao, as a person who uses angles to make people glance, getting instantly hit at full damage from a swing that should by all of this games logic glance is frankly irritating  and broken IMO
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Xant on September 07, 2011, 08:53:25 pm
Hilt slashing is actually easy enough to do, even with heavy strength builds that tend to lumber around a bit.

I don't call it hiltslashing if average footwork can prevent you from getting "hiltslashed."
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Teeth on September 07, 2011, 09:01:17 pm
Hiltslashes kill me, a lot. They cool though.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Digglez on September 07, 2011, 09:24:30 pm
I don't call it hiltslashing if average footwork can prevent you from getting "hiltslashed."

You should be smart/fast enough to avoid other players exploiting flawed game mechanics to kill you!

Worst argument ever
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: El_Infante on September 07, 2011, 09:41:59 pm
Could someone make a video about "hiltslashing"? I am reading the post but I can't understand how it works, and I think i'm not the only one.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Panoply on September 07, 2011, 09:42:59 pm
That is a double swing or "castor swing". Different thing. Those are ultra easy to do. Anybody who does those who is worth their salt is going to swing-cancel and block if they see you swing and step in the correct direction.

That is just Two inside swings in a row; Where if the enemy does an outside swing you let your second attack complete and you hit him first. If they hold their swing, you will hit first no matter what. If they feint, you will hit first.

Hilt slashing is like a double-swing on steroids. If they come to hug you/circle you, you hiltslash and as soon as the animation starts you do damage before the sword hits since you hit with the hilt's side of the hitbox. There is no correct swing to outswing a hiltslash, just a second block. You can avoid hiltslashes with footwork -- but it is a broken part of the game mechanics. The problem still exists.

Wait what? I thought castor and hiltslash was the same thing. I'll have to get you to give me a demo sometime. I think I'm just confused on the terminology here.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Teeth on September 07, 2011, 09:51:37 pm
When you are very close to your opponent. You do a leftswing while moving right, your opponent blocks. You do a rightswing while moving left, your opponent thinks he can attack but gets hit by your weapon first. You hit him very early in the animation, but instead of glancing it hits. It also works with turning instead of the right then left movement.

Its basically a way of outswinging your opponent. It can be countered by moving in a certain direction, I'm not sure which, need to think about that, or you should just double block.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Digglez on September 07, 2011, 10:09:54 pm
Could someone make a video about "hiltslashing"? I am reading the post but I can't understand how it works, and I think i'm not the only one.

basically someone sticking their model's hands inside you and you die.  Any other weapon it would register as a glance because you have no leverage and are striking so close to the hilt of the weapon (2h swords in reality typically didnt even have first 1/3-1/2 of the blade even sharpened)

same tactics is used heavily for 2h to hit people thru doors.  stick their hands thru door and swing, should glance due to being so close to hilt but it doesnt.  curved swords are notorious for this queerness
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Teeth on September 07, 2011, 10:13:46 pm
basically someone sticking their model's hands inside you and you die.  Any other weapon it would register as a glance because you have no leverage and are striking so close to the hilt of the weapon (2h swords in reality typically didnt even have first 1/3-1/2 of the blade even sharpened)

same tactics is used heavily for 2h to hit people thru doors.  stick their hands thru door and swing, should glance due to being so close to hilt but it doesnt.  curved swords are notorious for this queerness
Any other weapon? You can do hiltslashes with pretty much any weapon that sideswings. I'd say polearms are even better for it than 2h.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Digglez on September 07, 2011, 10:15:49 pm
Any other weapon? You can do hiltslashes with pretty much any weapon that sideswings. I'd say polearms are even better for it than 2h.

I would assume its possible and bec's do it to me occasionally but not anywhere near the amount that 2h swords use it.  I rarely play a 2h but I've managed to do it inadvertently with my studded warclub. 
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Vodner on September 07, 2011, 10:16:45 pm
I've never really had a problem with it. It's still blockable. Superior animations that rarely bounce are a large part of what makes 2h good.

The last thing this game needs is to make blocking easier than it already is. 1v1s lasting more than a minute are already common.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 07, 2011, 10:17:08 pm
Any other weapon? You can do hiltslashes with pretty much any weapon that sideswings. I'd say polearms are even better for it than 2h.

polearms can't hiltslash as polearms don't have a hilt. maybe you say "strafespam". well i get strafespammed often when fighting against glaive agi stackers...
but i only really see hiltslashes in duels.. not in battles.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Darkkarma on September 08, 2011, 01:49:32 am
Wait what? I thought castor and hiltslash was the same thing. I'll have to get you to give me a demo sometime. I think I'm just confused on the terminology here.

They are basically very similar. From my understanding, the hilt slash is when it looks as if the sword is still are your side in the beginning of your swing animation, only to hit the player a second or so before the blade model actually reaches your target in the swing animation because of how close they are.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Kenji on September 08, 2011, 02:23:35 am
hilt... slashing?

All I know is to press x :mrgreen:!
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Panoply on September 08, 2011, 02:49:33 am
When you are very close to your opponent. You do a leftswing while moving right, your opponent blocks. You do a rightswing while moving left, your opponent thinks he can attack but gets hit by your weapon first. You hit him very early in the animation, but instead of glancing it hits. It also works with turning instead of the right then left movement.

Its basically a way of outswinging your opponent. It can be countered by moving in a certain direction, I'm not sure which, need to think about that, or you should just double block.

Ok, yeah that's my understanding of a castor. So hiltslash isn't so much a technique as it is a bug? Is it not common to hiltslash while you're castoring?
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 08, 2011, 03:31:10 am
When you are very close to your opponent. You do a leftswing while moving right, your opponent blocks. You do a rightswing while moving left, your opponent thinks he can attack but gets hit by your weapon first. You hit him very early in the animation, but instead of glancing it hits. It also works with turning instead of the right then left movement.

Its basically a way of outswinging your opponent. It can be countered by moving in a certain direction, I'm not sure which, need to think about that, or you should just double block.

the counter to this, is strafing in one direction or blocking 2 times.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Xant on September 08, 2011, 10:48:45 am
You should be smart/fast enough to avoid other players exploiting flawed game mechanics to kill you!

Worst argument ever

Wat?
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Grey on September 08, 2011, 11:53:47 am
Learn

To

Block.



Remember, this is GAME on INTERNETZ, fingz take TIME to get between MA COMPUTAH and YO COMPUTAH, 2hander man, he wanna step inside you and cut your throat before you can swing at him, DAT WAT HE DO! If you wanna talk bout BROKEN FINGZ, Bumpstab from a lancer is not possible with REAL PHYSICS either. So what. Who cares. He cut your throat on his screen, on your screen you barely saw animation start. Be better, dont cry.

So: STOP MAKING UP NAMES FOR SILLY SHIT PEOPLE KILL YOU WITH: There are only THREE names you need to remember to win ANY fight, and they are: Left hand: this does your moving and stuff, its pretty usefull but not essential, NEXT is Right hand: This does you attacking and defending, its pretty usefull, almost always pretty essential, THIRD THING is brain: This one you always need, so try getting yours in gear.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Shpongled on September 08, 2011, 03:34:51 pm
Learn

To

Block.

(click to show/hide)

This.

I think its really cool, tbh. The closest thing to a combo attack we have. Watching Xquality rip through teams with quick 1-2s is a joy.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Teeth on September 08, 2011, 05:09:58 pm
Ok, yeah that's my understanding of a castor. So hiltslash isn't so much a technique as it is a bug? Is it not common to hiltslash while you're castoring?
Its pretty much something like polestun, It's something weird that evolved into a technique over time. I like that its in the game. No idea what the hell castoring is. In my 500 hours of cRPG I have never heard that term, the interwebz don't know it either.

the counter to this, is strafing in one direction or blocking 2 times.
Yeah thats what the last line of my post said exactly.
Title: Re: Hiltslashing?
Post by: Siiem on September 08, 2011, 07:38:18 pm
Learn

To

Block.



(click to show/hide)

What if someone is left handed?