cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Thomek on August 28, 2011, 04:28:28 pm

Title: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Thomek on August 28, 2011, 04:28:28 pm
This could be a solution to the strength stacking that people do nowadays.

You can get a decent amount of wpf without any weaponmaster!

If the free amount of wpf you get per level get's nerfed, and rather shifted on to weaponmaster, the AGI vs STR choice would be much tougher.

Mind you that such a suggestion should not allow extreme amounts of wpf to be hoarded in wpf builds. STR builds without weaponmaster or very little, should still be viable, but a bit nerfed compared to what it is now.

Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Earthdforce on August 28, 2011, 04:29:58 pm
Ehhh, pure-strength can't hybrid, but agi can. Isn't that enough?
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Tzar on August 28, 2011, 04:30:35 pm
Good idea but your idea has its flaws considering that it would turn this the mod into an all ready slower version then it all ready has become even a zombie would be able to be a duel hero with such slow action...

But yeah could be and easy way to remove str stackers...

But like the devs your solution is fixing the problem with a sledgehammer
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Bulzur on August 28, 2011, 04:36:50 pm
It's not a sledgehammer if you just slightly nerf the wpf gain by level.
And i agree to this suggestion, you just get too many free wpf compared to how much a WM gives you.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 28, 2011, 04:53:41 pm
111 is considered too much even though repair costs break even at 140 and that if you wear any actual armour your wpf plummets below 100 thus making your actual stats worse then what the weapon actually says?

How about instead you lightly buff weapon master.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Lichen on August 28, 2011, 05:30:46 pm
I have experience with strength stacked characters and if you do that you end up being a support role basically since EVERYBODY runs faster and swings faster than you. You have to time every swing and anticipate. As said if you also wear actual armor your wpf is even lower. Try it. It isn't 'easy mode' at all. Any less wpf and you might as well use a staff only as that will be the only thing you can swing fast enough not to be dominated constantly.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Grey on August 28, 2011, 05:59:19 pm
Good idea but your idea has its flaws considering that it would turn this the mod into an all ready slower version then it all ready has become even a zombie would be able to be a duel hero with such slow action...

But yeah could be and easy way to remove str stackers...

But like the devs your solution is fixing the problem with a sledgehammer

A sledgehammer seems suitable tool, the str stackers will tell you how good it is :D

Honestly, AGI stacking has too little benefits, with the huge WPF costs once past 120-150 wpf.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Thomek on August 29, 2011, 12:55:31 am
The game wouldn't be slower. Wep master gains would be buffed slightly so an 18/18 build would still be just as fast as now. Just str builds would be slightly worse. Have u guys ever tried it? 1 or 2 shotting most ppl. While with large amounts of IF together with armor you can afford lots of mistakes yourself. The difference from 120 (str) to 160 (agi) wpf in wep swing speed is minimal.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Ujin on August 29, 2011, 12:56:48 am
111 is considered too much even though repair costs break even at 140 and that if you wear any actual armour your wpf plummets below 100 thus making your actual stats worse then what the weapon actually says?

How about instead you lightly buff weapon master.
Agreed. Thomek just doesn't like STR builds at all . And cav =).
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Thomek on August 29, 2011, 02:20:11 am
And cav.. but thats another discussion which will soon be ripe.

I have nothing against STR chars. What I don't like is that certain builds (And weps) become "Optimal". in my perfect imaginary cRPG world there would be more dilemmas in build and wep choices with no clear iWIN combos.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Xant on August 29, 2011, 02:26:44 am
There are no optimal builds. For melee, anyhow.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Mtemtko on August 29, 2011, 02:44:48 am
Thomek will always suggest something that would buff agi builds in the end, or katanas.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Siiem on August 29, 2011, 03:07:55 am
Thomek will always suggest something that would buff agi builds in the end, or katanas.

Your insight is amazing, impressive mte.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Warcat on August 29, 2011, 03:11:55 am
It's already impossible for throwers and archers to go pure str, this will just make it so that no one can do anything other the balanced or agi. There is no reason to have pointless restrictions on what builds are available.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: MrShovelFace on August 29, 2011, 05:17:40 am
oh but how would i manage to get 140 with only 4 wm oh thomek?
i surely cant sacrifice the 10 power strike i worked so hard for

while i agree with this point i have one thing to say to you thomek

where did you read that it was against the rules for ninjas to be really

really

really

buff
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Thomek on August 29, 2011, 01:12:15 pm
No point in hiding my point of view.

Yes I think that Agi is underpowed atm, and that katanas need a buff.

I'm right at both, and many agrees. Sure there will be STR defenders out there when the time comes to nerf agi..

I just want the mod to be diverse.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Warcat on August 29, 2011, 03:40:12 pm
I'd be happy if they buffed katanas just by getting rid of the stab on it. As for diversity, it was that way and has become less so. I had all STR and all AGI builds and ones inbetween, now only the pure AGI are really possible.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Ujin on August 29, 2011, 03:53:23 pm
No point in hiding my point of view.

Yes I think that Agi is underpowed atm, and that katanas need a buff.

I'm right at both, and many agrees. Sure there will be STR defenders out there when the time comes to nerf agi..

I just want the mod to be diverse.
What people are suggesting is improvements to agi builds . What you are suggesting is nerfs for STR builds. Do you see the difference in the approaches ?
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Vibe on August 29, 2011, 04:01:27 pm
Agree, might not be the best solution, but still a decent one.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: San on August 29, 2011, 07:09:06 pm
I'm not sure I agree entirely. I think a large problem is that you can have as little as 2-3 weapon master, and a dedicated build would do just fine.

You can easily get 120-140 wpf from low weapon master levels, and even 100 is passable.

I think the problem is complex, but we do get LOTS of free wpf. I think the wpf threshold should be lowered overall, because there isn't too much to gain from ridiculous amounts of wpf compared to a decent amount. The change would be too much/easily unpopular, so meh.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Tzar on August 29, 2011, 07:23:25 pm
cRPG with more nerfs in the near future  :arrow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdocIqcXM1U
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Cyclopsided on August 30, 2011, 12:44:33 am
I'd be happy if they buffed katanas just by getting rid of the stab on it. As for diversity, it was that way and has become less so. I had all STR and all AGI builds and ones inbetween, now only the pure AGI are really possible.
WATamIReading.txt

Alright. I'm going to be objective here. I play ALOT of my time on my 36/3 builds with the 111 WPF I get for 0 WM. They are easy mode. It is almost difficult to get a KDR less than 1. The difference in WPF for effective fighting is so minimal, all my builds now that aren't hybrid, I am removing weapon master. I don't see what you guys are seeing, I'll be honest.
An increase in the effect of WM and/or a slight decrease in free WPF is a good idea. The first option in particular is the better idea.

Now the next thing. Katanas are pretty shitty, especially their thrust which should be increased a bit in all honesty. I don't use them since they suck so bad. I'll have to agree on thomek on that part. However, that has ~nothing~ to do with this thread. So leave it out of it.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Dach on August 30, 2011, 01:33:39 am
WATamIReading.txt

Alright. I'm going to be objective here. I play ALOT of my time on my 36/3 builds with the 111 WPF I get for 0 WM. They are easy mode. It is almost difficult to get a KDR less than 1. The difference in WPF for effective fighting is so minimal, all my builds now that aren't hybrid, I am removing weapon master. I don't see what you guys are seeing, I'll be honest.
An increase in the effect of WM and/or a slight decrease in free WPF is a good idea. The first option in particular is the better idea.

Now the next thing. Katanas are pretty shitty, especially their thrust which should be increased a bit in all honesty. I don't use them since they suck so bad. I'll have to agree on thomek on that part. However, that has ~nothing~ to do with this thread. So leave it out of it.

+1

also i shall add...

as an old player, I already saw what  ultra boosted wpf give... it's a simple 4 letter word that come in little can.

I'm sure no one want to saw this option back.

Currently the only advantage agi give for a melee build is movement speed, that's all.

Even worse, if you actually want this bonus to work, you can't carry too much weight either... What a nice bonus...  :rolleyes:

So Str get damage, hp and armor overall.

Agi give movement speed and minimal (i should say negligible attack speed.)

It's really easy to see which one is the best option for melee.

OP idea is a good one, combined with a slight WM boost could work very well.

Edit: Katana, remove the thrust problem solved.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Lichen on August 30, 2011, 02:57:31 am
Alright. I'm going to be objective here. I play ALOT of my time on my 36/3 builds with the 111 WPF I get for 0 WM. They are easy mode. It is almost difficult to get a KDR less than 1. The difference in WPF for effective fighting is so minimal, all my builds now that aren't hybrid, I am removing weapon master. I don't see what you guys are seeing, I'll be honest.
An increase in the effect of WM and/or a slight decrease in free WPF is a good idea. The first option in particular is the better idea.
It's easier to get more kills with I agree (not necessarily a good K/D ratio but easier to GET a kill) but for me personally in a 1vs1 I would die very often. Maybe if you wear light armor and use one of the faster weapons it might be a lot better. If 'free' WPF is reduced and or WM is given more benefit it's not a big deal to me either way. It might be good in a way since that's less reason for people to whine about 'OP str'.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on August 30, 2011, 08:22:24 am
as a thrower i might know a bit more about armor wpf reduction. Did you know that wearing blue tunic over mail (33) kettle helmet and mail chausses give you -20 wpf?
So a 111 wpf in light medium gear is already about 91 wpf. What about wearing churburg,?...
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: ThePoopy on August 30, 2011, 11:36:30 am
Polearmer -I wanna go pure str
 -You will get outspammed by enything with poleanim and no wpf
Polearmer -not if i use quarter staff
 -HURR

Archer -I wanna go pure str
 -...............idiot

Xbower -I wanna go pure str

Thrower -I wanna go pure str
 -But u will have fucked up aim and wont be able to pick up throwing weps from ground
Thrower -They are just for style enyway, duh

2hander -I wanna go pure str
 -But...eh...you will run slow
2hander -so?
 - X:

1hander -I wanna go pure str
 -Then u cant have shield
1hander -Oh right, nvm then

Conclusion:
str build only good for 2h and thrower
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Bulzur on August 30, 2011, 11:55:17 am
But but... the quaterstaff ?  :rolleyes:

Thanks to the polearm stun, agi is interesting for polearms.
I saw a lot of 21/15 builds as shielder. And they're definitely more viable than a 15/21, imo. Str still beats agi for shielders (unless the guy got 13 shield but that's...)
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: ToxicKilla on August 30, 2011, 12:01:43 pm
I think a very minor nerf may be in order, but nothing too major, or even better a buff to WM. As for buffing katana's, are you serious? The Japanese katana was a weapon of last resort and no better than a European sword made from steel. They really weren't all they are made out to be.
Title: Re: Nerf free wpf.
Post by: Cyclopsided on August 30, 2011, 12:53:46 pm
I think a very minor nerf may be in order, but nothing too major, or even better a buff to WM. As for buffing katana's, are you serious? The Japanese katana was a weapon of last resort and no better than a European sword made from steel. They really weren't all they are made out to be.
Oh god I know about the katana being bad IRL. I was just adding to the point that it sucks really bad in game and needs a slight buff