cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nyalan on August 27, 2011, 07:19:58 am

Title: Repair Costs
Post by: Nyalan on August 27, 2011, 07:19:58 am
I think the repair costs can prevent lots of players of playing the mod and make the game less attractive for lost of people, especially those who start and end at level 30 from the beginning... I'm not against repair cost, in fact, I do think they enhance the game, from my personal experience it's more fun having an advantage of choosing a lesser equipment other that attack and run speed...

But being so high? I must admit I'm a pretty combative gamer... I like big challenges, complex strategies and things that require efforts... I like when the fun is serious... but I'm pretty rare on my kind, almost every gamer I have met prefers to play without any effort of such. Having a very high repair cost requires somehow a big investment that will eventually run out and require another investment just to get back the gold it asked for repair... For example, anyone can tell me how you keep up with that Black Armor!??!? It must cost such a fortune to repair I wouldn't even figure out to buy one... I can't get positive gold from games with a Studded Leather armor over mail kit and some 6500$ weapons....

Anyhow the last patch has increased the repair cost when I had already received comments from friends that the repair cost was annoying or too high. It's my personal opinion that it was funnier when it was lower, now I'm getting crazy about how I could save money and taking very low equipment knowing that it will be very expansive to have a good kit without leaving the game to return to grind. So this is said, I'm saying more to think about the future of the mod than my personal fun as I'm planning to take a medium kit and I won't have to choose cheap equipment just to be able to play with my heavy one... But new players might be disinterested by the fact the repair costs are so high and maybe eventually less people would play the game... I wouldn' t remove the repair costs, but I was pretty surprised when I saw they got up with the patch... That's my thoughts.

Btw there is a bug that makes you repair items you pick up on the battlefield when autorepair is on, making me stop picking expansive weapons when mine is checked on.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Aymeric on August 27, 2011, 07:38:37 am
The way i play to have fun with no repair costs is lvl to 25 and as soon as i hit 26 i respec down to 21. Of course i will never reach other builds in PS or Agi but i have a lot of fun being full plate with a charger and a morningstar all the time. I don t hit that hard and my k/d ratio is around 1-1 ( maybe a bit higher ) but i enjoy to see the fear in the eyes of my ennemies when on my charger in the middle of a battle.
And even if my k/d ratio is not good i enjoy my support role as heavy cav and by bumping engaged melee ennemies i allow my team to have easier kills so its ok for me.
Apart from that this way you can try a different role every respec ( which is much more often than lvling to 31 lol )
Take care you can only do that with a gen 1 character!
Have fun!
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Christo on August 27, 2011, 08:23:11 am
Just man up, and get a cash reserve of your used gear's costs.

Then you'll be able to maintain a stable amount of gold.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: SquishMitten on August 27, 2011, 04:36:48 pm
leech like a boss
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Brrrak on August 27, 2011, 04:49:02 pm
One of the things that I've found is that, with a loadout of ~15,000 or lower, even at x1 I'm able to maintain a positive profit margin.  The best way, I've found, to deal with upkeep is to have distinct loadouts for different multipliers.  For instance:

With this, I can pull enough of a surplus to even use a x5 loadout on a particularly difficult x1.  Not sure how luck-dependent this is, but it seems to have served me well.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: rustyspoon on August 27, 2011, 06:19:24 pm
Upkeep is fine. It's actually a bit too low in my opinion. My most expensive character uses 32k in gear and I always make money on him. I have another that only uses 21k in gear and I make a shit-ton of money. You don't need the most expensive stuff to be competitive. I beat tin cans down in all day long.

If you're really that concerned with upkeep, retire once, sell your heirloom point and never worry about money again...
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Riddaren on August 27, 2011, 06:41:40 pm
The initial idea of the upkeep system was to limit the number of players in heavy armour (tincans) and those who used heavy horses.
I don't really know if it actually succeeded or not but it probably did.

I think we can all agree that a noob in heavy armour on a plated charger performs better than he would have done with a longbow.
In that case I like that the prices of heavier armour and heavier horses are high. It makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is that archers are excluded from the upkeep system.

Will this get fixed already? To be honest I think the prices of all bows should be increased alot.
The better bow the more the upkeep should be increased.

The longbow, which is currently ridiculously low 11.000 should be increased to atleast 25.000 imo.

Right now cavalry players pays 2-4 times more than archers in upkeep. Is that really balanced?


What makes archers even more of a probem is the autobalance that doesn't balance by class (wpf) which can result in one team ending up with all ranged players. That usually makes them win with ease.
Remember that ranged owns cavalry players on horses below Destrier by shooting them down with just 2-3 arrows. Cavalry players also get penalized by chraging archers because of the speed bonus of arrows so you usually die to 1-3 arrows from a longbowman.

In 1vs1 situation a good archer will win vs a good cavalry player. No matter what horse, armour and weapon he uses.

So how come it is so cheap to play the most deadly class in the game? (archer with longbow)
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 27, 2011, 06:43:32 pm
I like how this guy bitches about archers being too cheap, and forgets that 1 they are a support class and have a more subtle impact on the battlefield unlike cav, and 2 is ignoring the fact that the new costs are making the majority of archers actually be careful about what they bring (notice the sudden drop in Bodkins?).

As for "the most deadly class in the game" Deadly means to make others dead... so why is it that every longbowman is not outperforming other classes consistently when it comes to making other people dead?
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Inporylem on August 27, 2011, 06:45:17 pm
Just sell your looms and you can play whatevah gear you like. Thats how i roll :(
Selling one loom for 430k means you can play weeks/months even as tincan
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Lichen on August 27, 2011, 06:50:25 pm
I just use cheap gear now so I don't have to be bothered with tedious micromanaging. The advantage of more expensive gear really isn't worth it anyway to me. I have some loomed stuff and I don't even use it anymore (I have them more to admire than actually use now like museum pieces). Minus 1000-2000+ gold to survive a few more hits? (while being slow as a drunk slug and an easy target and thus taking more hits negating much of the benefit in the process?) No thanks. Not worth the bother to me anymore.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Leshma on August 27, 2011, 07:16:39 pm
Quote from: Tears_of_Destiny on August 27, 2011, 06:43:32 pm
I like how this guy bitches about archers being too cheap, and forgets that 1 they are a support class and have a more subtle impact on the battlefield unlike cav

cause you suck
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Blondin on August 27, 2011, 08:34:59 pm
Nerf upkeep!!
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on August 27, 2011, 08:41:55 pm
I've always been in favor of upkeep but yesterday it seemed to have gotten worse. Maybe I just got on a bad streak but I broke at least 2 items every round, win or lose. I lost about 20k after playing two hours. It didn't seem to matter if I was on a x1 or x5.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Riddaren on August 27, 2011, 10:31:07 pm
Quote from: Tears_of_Destiny on August 27, 2011, 06:43:32 pm
I like how this guy bitches...

I simply proposed a solution to a problem I believe most players agree with and you tell me I'm bitching :shock:

Tears_of_Destiny:
(click to show/hide)


I'm talking about archers being just as much of a help to the team as cavalry players.
What is unblanced is that they only pay 1/2 - 1/4 of the upkeep cavalry players does.

I'm only questioning if it is balanced to make an upkeep system based on armour instead of actual effectiveness in combat.

Imo the upkeep system should be balanced by effectiveness of each build within the same class.
What this means in reality is that a bow should cost between 5k (short bow) and 65k (long bow) just like the range of costs for horses. I'm not saying it should be within the range 5-65k. Maybe just 1k-30k but you get the idea. Upkeep by effectiveness of each build within the same class.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: karasu on August 27, 2011, 10:35:57 pm
I play with Cost: 89,068  and I still make money, and no, I'm not bragging that I am a great player that makes teams wins x5 too often to support this information (cough cough), but just the fact that I make profit with such expensive gear.

Cheers.  :oops:
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Brrrak on August 27, 2011, 10:36:25 pm
Quote from: Kung Fu Jesus on August 27, 2011, 08:41:55 pm
I've always been in favor of upkeep but yesterday it seemed to have gotten worse. Maybe I just got on a bad streak but I broke at least 2 items every round, win or lose. I lost about 20k after playing two hours. It didn't seem to matter if I was on a x1 or x5.

Ouch.  Looks like it is somewhat luck dependent?
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Riddaren on August 27, 2011, 10:39:15 pm
Quote from: karasu on August 27, 2011, 10:35:57 pm
I play with Cost: 89,068  and I still make money, and no, I'm not bragging that I am a great player that makes teams wins x5 too often to support this information (cough cough), but just the fact that I make profit with such expensive gear.

Cheers.  :oops:

You may think that you make money but if you actually play with equipment worth 90k every round you will soon ahve no more money... that is a fact.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: karasu on August 27, 2011, 10:50:26 pm
Quote from: Riddaren on August 27, 2011, 10:39:15 pm
You may think that you make money but if you actually play with equipment worth 90k every round you will soon ahve no more money... that is a fact.

I play with this gear and I make money, I don't need to be called a liar, it's a fact, deal with it. Seems that you're unaware of how the repair formulae works which is not of my concern then your disbelief.

Cheers
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Riddaren on August 27, 2011, 10:54:01 pm
Quote from: karasu on August 27, 2011, 10:50:26 pm
I play with this gear and I make money, I don't need to be called a liar, it's a fact, deal with it. Seems that you're unaware of how the repair formulae works which is not of my concern then your disbelief.

Cheers
Bla bla... You can't make money with that gear if you use it every round unless you disable auto repair.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: karasu on August 27, 2011, 11:20:02 pm
Quote from: Riddaren on August 27, 2011, 10:54:01 pm
Bla bla... You can't make money with that gear if you use it every round unless you disable auto repair.

(click to show/hide)

That's exactly my point, just shared the fact with OP that it's possible to make money with high value gear. Call me lucky if you want, whatever.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 27, 2011, 11:24:43 pm
Quote from: karasu on August 27, 2011, 10:35:57 pm
I play with Cost: 89,068  and I still make money, and no, I'm not bragging that I am a great player that makes teams wins x5 too often to support this information (cough cough), but just the fact that I make profit with such expensive gear.

Cheers.  :oops:

Yo, heirlooms increase cost but not upkeep.

What is it really? (for clarity, add up the cost of what it is normally via normal stuff, not your loomed crap)
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Xant on August 27, 2011, 11:29:04 pm
Quote from: karasu on August 27, 2011, 10:35:57 pm
I play with Cost: 89,068  and I still make money, and no, I'm not bragging that I am a great player that makes teams wins x5 too often to support this information (cough cough), but just the fact that I make profit with such expensive gear.

Cheers.  :oops:

Yep.. 70-80k is making profit at x3-x5 and breaking even in the long run if you have a cash reserve of ~20k.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Leshma on August 27, 2011, 11:31:02 pm
Quote from: Tears_of_Destiny on August 27, 2011, 11:24:43 pm
Yo, heirlooms increase cost but not upkeep.

What is it really?

Around 40k I think. He's wearing Rus plate, Pigface, good boots and prolly mail mittens. Using Long Spear which is cheap. Maybe even less than 40k, too lazy to calculate it right now.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Xant on August 27, 2011, 11:39:57 pm
You sure all of those are +3?
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 27, 2011, 11:40:59 pm
Quote from: Leshma on August 27, 2011, 11:31:02 pm
Around 40k I think. He's wearing Rus plate, Pigface, good boots and prolly mail mittens. Using Long Spear which is cheap. Maybe even less than 40k, too lazy to calculate it right now.

That makes a hell of a lot more sense. I have a similar setup and it is 35K.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Leshma on August 28, 2011, 12:14:07 am
Quote from: Xant on August 27, 2011, 11:39:57 pm
You sure all of those are +3?

Not sure about whole setup but know that Long spear, Rus Scale and Lammelar Gloves (thought it was mittens, i'm spectating him right now  :mrgreen:) are x3 cause he can took quite a beating.

Pigface Klapvisier
Rus Scale
Lammelar Gloves
Rus Splinted Greaves
Long Spear
German Poleaxe
Long Dagger

That's our friend koldborn. Also a nub, cause he don't know that only base price counts for upkeep...
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Xant on August 28, 2011, 12:15:19 am
I can take quite a beating at 60 armor with +1 plate mittens, don't prove nuthin
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: IG_Saint on August 28, 2011, 12:25:46 am
Quote from: Leshma on August 28, 2011, 12:14:07 am
Not sure about whole setup but know that Long spear, Rus Scale and Lammelar Gloves (thought it was mittens, i'm spectating him right now  :mrgreen:) are x3 cause he can took quite a beating.

Pigface Klapvisier
Rus Scale
Lammelar Gloves
Rus Splinted Greaves
Long Spear
German Poleaxe
Long Dagger

That's our friend koldborn. Also a nub, cause he don't know that only base price counts for upkeep...

So about 50k of equipment, the same as my gear costs. Which in my experience will still give you a bit of money gain.
Title: Re: Repair Costs
Post by: Siiem on August 28, 2011, 12:29:54 am
Quote from: karasu on August 27, 2011, 10:35:57 pm
I play with Cost: 89,068  and I still make money, and no, I'm not bragging that I am a great player that makes teams wins x5 too often to support this information (cough cough), but just the fact that I make profit with such expensive gear.

Cheers.  :oops:

 :lol: