cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Rumblood on August 20, 2011, 08:06:08 pm
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Unless you intend for all archers to be forced into an 18/18 role in order to have full access to our classes capabilities, then you need to add a low tier piercing bow. Balance it as you see fit. But it should be available to low tier archers who are forced to go against all the heavy armor in game.
It should be slightly less effective against cloth, but way more effective against armor than the less than 1 hp damage it does now.
Edit: This is a revisit to this topic. Pasting my latest argument to the OP.
I made a post after the change from bow damage type to arrow damage type regarding the balancing of heirlooms by making a clear choice between damage and plenty of ammo. I think the difference between 0 pierce bodkins now and the ammo choice given with plain arrows (I've not been able to spam myself out of arrows even with a fast bow) has done what I asked.
However, I think I'm going to come back to my original request, which was to simply add one piercing bow at the low end. After playing around with archery and reading the feedbacks and complaints, I think that balancing by individual bow is just a smarter way to approach balance. Putting damage type back onto arrows has made it MORE difficult to get a good Archery balance, not easier.
Please, move damage type back to bows. Give Tatar and Long bow pierce. Move all other bow types back to cut, except for harassment type archer build (peasants), make the Short Bow damage type blunt so that peasant archers can at least get a decent interrupt.
Then go back to balancing by bow. It just made more sense.
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There ya go.
And btw we don't need a bow to make 10 ath runners effective.
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There ya go.
And btw we don't need a bow to make 10 ath runners effective.
That comment reminds me of some of Cheapshots comics.
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Unless you intend for all archers to be forced into an 18/18 role in order to have full access to our classes capabilities, then you need to add a low tier piercing bow. Balance it as you see fit. But it should be available to low tier archers who are forced to go against all the heavy armor in game.
It should be slightly less effective against cloth, but way more effective against armor than the less than 1 hp damage it does now.
Perhaps make the Yumi pierce with slightly lower stats would work well.
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That comment reminds me of some of Cheapshots comics.Perhaps make the Yumi pierce with slightly lower stats would work well.
And still be one slot? DUN TINK LE SO.
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I think my solution would be to make the Nomad bow 17 or 18 pierce, or the Tatar bow 19 pierce,
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The point is, if you want to go for uber pierce dmg, you have to invest str, fair deal. Lower tier bows are just a filler till you can get to the 5-6PD ones, 5PDs suitable for the HA, 6 for pretty much everything else. Would be quite stupid if you could deal pierce dmg with the lower tier bows, everyone would just stack agi and be a running whore, and i personally would not want to see that. Even with 18/21 if you want to go PURE archer you are fast and dealing respectable dmg.
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Yup...it's all about grinding out those lower tier bows. Invest all your points in str first so you can get that 5/6PD quite quickly. That's what I do. Even with the lower tier bows you can still get some kills. Everyone loves a lucky head shot.
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There ya go.
And btw we don't need a bow to make 10 ath runners effective.
Why not?
Some patches earlier one archer alone could stand in the middle of an open field and kill 15 enemies.
Nowadays, one 2h/pole guy can rush into a group of archers and kill all of them.
Cavalry (both lancers and 1h/2h bumpslashers) have a too easy game in open field maps,
and on all other maps its 2h/pole gang bangers that have a way too easy game.
Also, archers are forced to shoot shielders, because they do not enough damage to really hurt heavy armored superfast 2h/pole pussies.
Native is balanced.
1hshield has an advantage over ranged,
2h over 1hshield,
and ranged over 2h.
crpg its all about backstabbing and gangbanging what makes 2h/pole so totally (too) easy.
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Michael..
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crpg its all about backstabbing and gangbanging what makes 2h/pole so totally (too) easy "archers that shoot you and then run a mile to start shooting you again with the jump-turn-shoot exploit" what makes bows so totally (too) easy.
There, fixed it.
Oh and if ur being back stabbed, it's cuz either you were stupid enough to stay at one place the whole map and you got flanked, or you did not see him coming in your tunnel vision.
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this is a stupid suggestion in my opinion...what we do need is a better 0 slot weapon...the simple 0 slot hammer is utterly useless...my MW Rus bow takes 2 slots, then 2 sltos for arrows.....then what....i'm out of slots.....shitty hammer it is.
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There is the handaxe, though you need good athletics to actually compensate for the terrible length that it has.
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yes but both are utterly useless though.
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Archer = Distance Fighting Unit
Archer =/= Distance AND Melee Unit
For an Archer should getting in a melee always be the last solution ... in my opinion ...
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you are right and I do my best not to get into a melee. however there are times when you have to and you just get steam rolled.
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Aye, thats right ... but that would be now sounds hard ... but ... c´est la vie ... (no offensive meaning... :wink:)
Archers can work in groups to improve their survival chance ... but it is normal that an archer cant match a Fighter in melee ... only with luck or something ...
There should be nothing changed ... imo
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Plenty stopped by, most don't know what they are talking about, even fewer play the class.
Up your "You must play a generic PD 6 archer or better" attitudes with a splintery pole.
HA's should have the option of a PD3/PD4 piercing bow. Doesn't do as much to low/mid tier armor, but will do at least a couple points of damage against a tincan.
Archers should be able to choose between being a slow drawing, slow moving, glass cannon and a fast drawing, fast moving, barely scratches your skin but is annoying as fuck Archer.
Cepeshi, you have the least clue of all. Piercing isnt UBAR. It is a DAMAGE type. It is more or less effective against different TYPES of armor. DAMAGE amount comes from......wait for it.......DAMAGE AMOUNT, not the bow damage TYPE.
So, let's review class. One more time.
DAMAGE AMOUNT is how much potential damage a weapon can do.
DAMAGE TYPE is how EFFECTIVE that potential damage is against different TYPES of armor.
Useless fuckers mucking up my thread. How would you appreciate it if all polearms inexplicably became cut only except the top 3 poleaxes? Spears that don't pierce, but cut instead? I know, about as much sense as an arrow that doesn't pierce :rolleyes:
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I think my solution would be to make the Nomad bow 17 or 18 pierce, or the Tatar bow 19 pierce,
Either would be a decent change, as it is both of those bows are crap. A few clueless factions occasionally buy those in Strategus, but most archers know not to use them in cRPG. Horn bow is the only lower damage bow worth using.
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Either would be a decent change, as it is both of those bows are crap. A few clueless factions occasionally buy those in Strategus, but most archers know not to use them in cRPG. Horn bow is the only lower damage bow worth using.
What are you doing making good sense in my thread? :lol:
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Oh sorry my bad. kjfgkdjhgkjesnlfghlijrglikgnslknvda;em f kgjlskgnsrkng fgnlskrgnskrgl nfglkslkrgnlkn f Try making sense of that!
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[q]Nowadays, one 2h/pole guy can rush into a group of archers and kill all of them. [/q]
Maybe if you have a bunch of shitty archers that are all listening to music and don't all just run away or you know, shoot the asshat.
The lower tier bows need something because nobody ever uses them. You see all sorts of melee weapons being used, all tiers infact but you only ever see the Khergit (Rare), Strong, War or Long bows. Hybridization was sort of killed with the slots but I think it'd be pretty neat to carry around a pocket bow and stack of arrows without a whole lot of investment as a skirmishing weapon until your opponent closes the distance. Now as how to do that... Maybe make them a lot faster, give them utility as a supression weapon, or more accurate but less damage so you can harass that plate wearer killing everybody without risking hitting teammates (unless you suck at point and click adventure games).
At this point, doing that (That being using a low PD bow) with a bow is simply retarded because 50 WPF out of your main weapon will make your crossbow stupidly accurate and do far more damage than any of the bows (PD6, 172WPF with a MW Rus Bow and a normal crossbow still does as much damage if not more).
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Useless fuckers mucking up my thread. How would you appreciate it if all polearms inexplicably became cut only except the top 3 poleaxes? Spears that don't pierce, but cut instead? I know, about as much sense as an arrow that doesn't pierce :rolleyes:
As you said yourself, it's just a damage type. If you want, I'm sure you could ask someone to code an interface change for you where it changes Cut to Pierce so you can immerse yourself better.
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I forgot to thank the Dev's most heartily for listening :wink:
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I made a post after the change from bow damage type to arrow damage type regarding the balancing of heirlooms by making a clear choice between damage and plenty of ammo. I think the difference between 0 pierce bodkins now and the ammo choice given with plain arrows (I've not been able to spam myself out of arrows even with a fast bow) has done what I asked.
However, I think I'm going to come back to my original request, which was to simply add one piercing bow at the low end. After playing around with archery and reading the feedbacks and complaints, I think that balancing by individual bow is just a smarter way to approach balance. Putting damage type back onto arrows has made it MORE difficult to get a good Archery balance, not easier.
Please, move damage type back to bows. Give Tatar and Long bow pierce. Move all other bow types back to cut, except for harassment type archer build (peasants), make the Short Bow damage type blunt so that peasant archers can at least get a decent interrupt.
Then go back to balancing by bow. It just made more sense.
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make the Short Bow damage type blunt so that peasant archers can at least get a decent interrupt.
Problem is, not the Peasant archers would be the most profited
6/30 Archer Legolas Builds would be OP with a Blut short bow.Or something similar.
Just blunt them to death.
Also, A Blunt Bow is silly.
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Problem is, not the Peasant archers would be the most profited
6/30 Archer Legolas Builds would be OP with a Blut short bow.Or something similar.
Just blunt them to death.
Also, A Blunt Bow is silly.
No it isn't.
Flu-flu arrows were and still are used to hunt birds. When taking aim at the bird the archer must lead the bird and release the arrow in anticipation of the bird's travel path. Because flu-flu arrows fly short distances, it is easy for the archer to recover the arrow if the target is missed. Special bird points are used that entangle the bird as it flies into a wire harness attached to the end of the arrow.
These arrows often have a blunt point. If shooting at squirrels or other tree dwellers, the blunt point will prevent the arrow from sticking in the branch or trunk of the tree, and thus easier to retrieve. The blunt points were also used for other reasons. "Although the first game preserves in England were established by William the Conqueror at this time, the Saxon was permitted to shoot birds and small beasts in his fields and therefore was allowed to use a blunt arrow, headed with a lead tip or pilum, hence our term pile, or target point. If found with a sharp arrowhead, the so-called broad-head used for killing the king's deer, he was promptly hanged."[1]
Another author said: "After shooting with bows and arrows for a short time, the archer no doubt will marvel at the way an arrow can lose itself in even the shortest grass and how a pointed arrow can bury itself for an inch or so in a tree trunk or branch so that it takes a half hour or more to dig it out. For this kind of shooting, blunt arrows cannot be beat. These blunt arrows have tremendous hitting power. They do not sneak under the grass as easily as do other arrows, but the chances of getting a rabbit with a blunt arrow are much better than with a hunting point. These blunt arrows will stand a lot of hard knocks too."[2]
Also, way to ignore the MAIN POINT, which was to revert to bow damage type.
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Its still silly to use in warfare.Even with a Long bow it would only cause bad bruises(With some luck maybe inner bleedings or some broken bones, but I doubt that would happen oftenly).Bad bruises and big pain, making the enemy rage even more.Silly.