cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Tomas on August 18, 2011, 02:11:42 am
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I've not quite thought this through fully so it could be really stupid but why not change Shield difficulties to use Strength rather than Shield Skill and adjust the values accordingly?
It has always seemed a little strange to me that whilst all other items in the game use strength for their difficulty, shields alone use a skill. To make things even stranger, that skill is agility based.
Why don't we therefore bring shields into line with all other items, doubling (or even trippling) their difficulties and making them strength based. E.g. 10 (or 15 if trippled) strength to use the Huscarl Shield.
The shield skill would still be required to make shields last more than 1 hit in melee combat so true shielders should still have an advantage over opportuistic people grabbing a handy shield to hide behind.
The possible pros I can think of are
- no more excuses for 2 Handers vs Ranged
- more variation possible in shield builds
- possibly more hybrids in the game and less extreme builds
- more flexibilty in char builds
Cons could be
- Archers might end up over nerfed (in terms of shot speed) as everybody has a shield they have time to put up when they see an arrow flying slowly towards them.
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It has always seemed a little strange to me that whilst all other items in the game use strength for their difficulty, shields alone use a skill. To make things even stranger, that skill is agility based.
Bows use Power Draw, that is a skill.
Throwing weapons use Power Throw, that is a skill.
Horses using Riding, that is a skill and it's agility based.
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10 IF and 10 PS turtles! Great idea!
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10 IF and 10 PS turtles! Great idea!
10 IF and 10 PS will give you 3 shield skill at most, not much of a turtle, eh?
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10 IF and 10 PS will give you 3 shield skill at most, not much of a turtle, eh?
Did you read the OP?
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Did you read the OP?
Did you?
The shield skill would still be required to make shields last more than 1 hit in melee combat
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Still, 36 strenght 3 agi, steel pick, steel shield, go go go.
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Still, 36 strenght 3 agi, steel pick, steel shield, go go go.
Noone ever tried a steel shield with 3 shield skill, I wonder how fast it would break :)
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Did you?
You could have 5, which is definitely usable
Strength: 30
Agility: 6
Hit points: 85
Unused skill points: 3
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 10
Power Strike: 10
Shield: 2 (+3 unused)
Athletics: 2
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 2
One Handed: 125
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
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Noone ever tried a steel shield with 3 shield skill, I wonder how fast it would break :)
Considering its body armor, not very fast with anything not an axe, now I THINK that you dont get any benefits on the shield if you have the same shield skill as the required difficulty.
If what I THINK is true then using a steel shield with 1 shield skill would be the same as using one with the current 7 shield skill.
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You could have 5, which is definitely usable
Strength: 30
Agility: 6
Hit points: 85
Unused skill points: 3
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 10
Power Strike: 10
Shield: 2 (+3 unused)
Athletics: 2
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 2
One Handed: 125
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
What? 5 shield skill with 6 agi? okay.jpg
Considering its body armor, not very fast with anything not an axe, now I THINK that you dont get any benefits on the shield if you have the same shield skill as the required difficulty.
If what I THINK is true then using a steel shield with 1 shield skill would be the same as using one with the current 7 shield skill.
1 shield skill = 8% damage reduction
7 shield skill = 56% damage reduction
13 shield skill = 104% damage reduction (true turtle)
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Yeah but does the shield skill works like the Power Draw one, where a bow with a requirement of 3 will start getting extra damage only after you get 4 Power Draw, with 7 PD being the breaking point where you get bonuses, 8 PD for 3 PD difficulty bow is the same thing as 7 PD, thats how it is in Native, and I am wondering if its the same here.
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Yeah but does the shield skill works like the Power Draw one, where a bow with a requirement of 3 will start getting extra damage only after you get 4 Power Draw, with 7 PD being the breaking point where you get bonuses, 8 PD for 3 PD difficulty bow is the same thing as 7 PD, thats how it is in Native, and I am wondering if its the same here.
I think it's only raw 8% damage reduction per shield skill.
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Bows use Power Draw, that is a skill.
Throwing weapons use Power Throw, that is a skill.
Horses using Riding, that is a skill and it's agility based.
Lol - forgot about them :mrgreen: I was tired, that's my only excuse.
@Hotpokka - do you think that build would ever be able to hit anything? I can see it being useable for a 2HAnder or Polearm due to those weapons' longer reaches, but a 1 handed weapon i'm not so sure about. At least it would let 1 handers have the option of using that build though.
An alternative that's much simpler would be to reduce the weakest shield difficulties to 0 so anybody can use them.
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In fact, you want to be able to grab a huscarl as a 2 hander without any shield skill point invested?
If i remember shield difficulty was raised to avoid that.
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Lol - forgot about them :mrgreen: I was tired, that's my only excuse.
@Hotpokka - do you think that build would ever be able to hit anything? I can see it being useable for a 2HAnder or Polearm due to those weapons' longer reaches, but a 1 handed weapon i'm not so sure about. At least it would let 1 handers have the option of using that build though.
An alternative that's much simpler would be to reduce the weakest shield difficulties to 0 so anybody can use them.
A full strength shielder would be able to hit people.
I did STF on a 36/3 12 PS 11 IF 1 hander build and I'm using weapons around 80 reach and I have no trouble killing everyone.
Usually they just come to me and if not while I can't outrun people running away, I can get to people given enough time.
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been suggested lots of times before, shot down everytime
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I actually posted this same idea a month ago and it was met with a similar reception. I agree with the OP that shields should have their difficulty strength based. Shield skill on the other hand can remain agility based as the skill is a pseudo weapon proficiency category.
You would see the evolution of utility shieldmen who have high strength but lack shield skill; they would take board and huscarl shields for coverage against ranged fire, but be slow in their blocking with the heavy shields. There would also be skilled shieldmen with lower strength and high shield skill who take bucklers and smaller shields. No longer would bucklers only be available to the highest levels, which is currently incredibly stupid imo. Difficulty and gold price would not be so highly correlated as well hopefully (high difficulty/low gold price, low difficulty/high gold price, etc.).
The reason this idea would create unbalanced builds is due mostly to the speed at which you can backpeddle, rotate the character, and the benefits of strength per point. These are really problems with the game as a whole, so the idea isn't bad in itself, but rather because the game has some unrealistic mechanics already. Perhaps with wpe the idea is possible.
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I actually posted this same idea a month ago and it was met with a similar reception. I agree with the OP that shields should have their difficulty strength based. Shield skill on the other hand can remain agility based as the skill is a pseudo weapon proficiency category.
You would see the evolution of utility shieldmen who have high strength but lack shield skill; they would take board and huscarl shields for coverage against ranged fire, but be slow in their blocking with the heavy shields. There would also be skilled shieldmen with lower strength and high shield skill who take bucklers and smaller shields. No longer would bucklers only be available to the highest levels, which is currently incredibly stupid imo. Difficulty and gold price would not be so highly correlated as well hopefully (high difficulty/low gold price, low difficulty/high gold price, etc.).
The reason this idea would create unbalanced builds is due mostly to the speed at which you can backpeddle, rotate the character, and the benefits of strength per point. These are really problems with the game as a whole, so the idea isn't bad in itself, but rather because the game has some unrealistic mechanics already. Perhaps with wpe the idea is possible.
this makes sense