cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Diomedes on August 15, 2011, 09:10:10 pm
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I was told the awlpike loses speed and damage when used with a shield whereas the war spear does not - is this true? They seem like the two best weapons, at face value, but I really don't know enough about them to decide.
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I believe they both lose speed and damage, but you gain in thrust reach.
I'm no expert on hoplites, but it seems to me that awlpikes are generally preferred for the extra length and damage, assuming you don't plan on stowing your shield on your back. That said, awlpikes don't fit with the hoplite theme much, imo, and weapons like the red tassel spear, war spear, or even shortened spear look better.
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war spear.
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I believe they both lose speed and damage, but you gain in thrust reach.
I'm no expert on hoplites, but it seems to me that awlpikes are generally preferred for the extra length and damage, assuming you don't plan on stowing your shield on your back. That said, awlpikes don't fit with the hoplite theme much, imo, and weapons like the red tassel spear, war spear, or even shortened spear look better.
This. And additionally, War Spear is faster and usable when mounted.
However, as of my experience with zero wpf in polearms part-time hoplite, awlpike is generally more prefferable due to noticably better damage.
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Try the light lance sometimes.
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I was told the awlpike loses speed and damage when used with a shield whereas the war spear does not - is this true? They seem like the two best weapons, at face value, but I really don't know enough about them to decide.
All pole arms experience the same penalty when used with a shield.
Awlpike is the best because of length and damage, but doesn't fit the role.
War spear & red tassle are alright, short but fits the theme.
If you want theme, use the light lance. It also happens to be just fast enough to use with some spin moves, and is the correct length for a hoplite spear in real life. Slow though... good for support.
Bamboo spear is also the right length, but does low damage and doesn't fit the theme very well. The length makes it amazing for support.
Shortened spear is just so short, it works though...
Hopefully ashwood pike gets the ability to be used with shield + 2 more speed. Then maybe that weapon won't be worthless & would fit the hoplite theme PERFECTLY.
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I use War Spear or Bamboo Spear. I love the look of light lance like Marathon says it fits the theme, but for me I find it too slow.
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warspear is pretty awesome even with 1 WPF. with 7PS if anyone 'runs' into it I can 1shot them if I hit them in the face, speed bonus is niceee
bamboo spear is almost useless with shield, it attacks too slow
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When using a Bamboo Spear speed isn't the key needed though. Your job is just to be an annoying guy with a minipike and shield. You can easily just backpedal holding right mouse button to disengage and wait for teammates.
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When using a Bamboo Spear speed isn't the key needed though. Your job is just to be an annoying guy with a minipike and shield. You can easily just backpedal holding right mouse button to disengage and wait for teammates.
half of your attacks glance and they all leave you open for counterattack for about a full second, which is a death wish
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half of your attacks glance and they all leave you open for counterattack for about a full second, which is a death wish
If they glance you fucked up elsewhere. Pointblank stabs never work.
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Awlpike for damage and range > speed
Warspear for speed> damage and a little range
red tassel spear for +++Speed> damage and range
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My favorite is the awlpike, higher damage and greater range vs its alternatives.
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Light Lance is suprsingly good on foot.
Decently fast with amazing range
Only downside of course is its not sheathable
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I use the Warspear for it seems the more accurate choice to the real Hoplite Spear.
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half of your attacks glance and they all leave you open for counterattack for about a full second, which is a death wish
That's why I say stick with your buds and you got it. And I barely glance with my Bamboo Spear unless the guy is wearing Transitional and above armor.
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I use the Warspear for it seems the more accurate choice to the real Hoplite Spear.
way too short, light lance is most accurate choice by length & look. But it is slowww due to being usable on horse.
Hence the petitioning for the ashwood to be used with a shield and + 2 to speed or so.
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As an aside, what would you guys recommend as a good hoplite build? I don't just mean a spear + shield hoplite, I mean a spear + broad short sword + shield hoplite. I realize it will not be an optimized build at all, but it might be a fun concept to try, and I'm hoping it's at least viable. I'm mostly looking at how to balance dual wpfs while maintaining respectable PS.
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As an aside, what would you guys recommend as a good hoplite build? I don't just mean a spear + shield hoplite, I mean a spear + broad short sword + shield hoplite. I realize it will not be an optimized build at all, but it might be a fun concept to try, and I'm hoping it's at least viable. I'm mostly looking at how to balance dual wpfs while maintaining respectable PS.
21/15.
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 70
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 7
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 5
One Handed: 104
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 120
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
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21/15.
24-15
Ditch ironflesh for 8ps, the extra str hp makes up for it
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24-15
Ditch ironflesh for 8ps, the extra str hp makes up for it
That is the other flavor of the build. 11 more HP for 21/15 than 24/15. It can be a big difference. 8% damage increase from PS is nice though.
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or prepare to die alot going my build (make a mistake good chance you are gonna die)
@ Level 32
Strength 15
Agility 24
One Handed 83
Polearm 163
Skills
Power Strike 5
Shield 8
Athletics 8
Weapon Master 8
was 15-21 @ Level 30
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Thanks for all the suggestions.
I tried a stf agi heavy hoplite, similar to civilian's suggestion, but I felt I lacked damage output.
The 21/15 and 24/15 look pretty good. I'm inclined toward the latter since I typically play no IF chars, and I feel the shield goes a long way to make up for the lack. That said, while I can see 100 wpf being enough for 1h especially given the 102 speed broad short sword, is 120 wpf enough for polearms?
What is the exact speed penalty for using a spear with a shield? What spear did you envisage this build using? I'm ok with relying on the short sword for duels or close combat, and the spear for supporting teammates, if that lets me get away with less pole wpf. I'd prefer not to use the awlpike because I don't like the look. I'm intrigued by the idea of the light lance, but I imagine I'd need more wpf to make that work? Red Tassel then?
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120 is enough to serve the purpose of simply being support, but if you're a really dedicated hoplite max that shit out.
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120 is good. I've played a lot with hoplites, and 120 is perfectly fine for it.
100 is good for 1h because they are already so fast, and you need 100 WPF to use a weapon as the stats are listed.
Light lance is good for dedicated hoplite, but can't be sheathed. If you need to sheath it since you'll be using the broad sword when alone, go with the war spear or red tassle.
Double sided lance works too, although it is a little short. Fits the theme though. Decent speed and high damage.
I will note that i have a 21/15 character with 117 1h and 105 pole arm that does fine as a hoplite.
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way too short, light lance is most accurate choice by length & look. But it is slowww due to being usable on horse.
Hence the petitioning for the ashwood to be used with a shield and + 2 to speed or so.
Not really:
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Mmmm. We do need overarm animation though.
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In the picture shown, the hoplite's weapon is closer in length to the light lance. Also, if used in the proper underarm grip would have more reach than the light lance in game by a bit. :X.
I don't know what you are trying to say.
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100 is good for 1h because they are already so fast, and you need 100 WPF to use a weapon as the stats are listed.
Assuming no armour is worn. Need a bit more to compensate for weight wpf penalty.
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Assuming no armour is worn. Need a bit more to compensate for weight wpf penalty.
I always put 105 for that reason.
BTW just made a hoplite STF character, going to have some fun with it.
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 56
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 7
Weapon Master: 5
One Handed: 52
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 106
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 107
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Huscarl and Awlpike with the 0 slow hammer and 0 slot dagger as side arms.
I would try 15/21 first for a build with around 120-130 pole and rest in 1h.
Hammer gives you knock down so you can retreat, dagger gives you extra speed against those really light agi spammers with 2h weapons, 7 shield gives you faster shield movements.
5ps might be a bit low if you don't have a MW awlpike, if you do than I think its sufficient.
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In the picture shown, the hoplite's weapon is closer in length to the light lance. Also, if used in the proper underarm grip would have more reach than the light lance in game by a bit. :X.
I don't know what you are trying to say.
Not really, the Warspear seems closer in lenght. How do you mean proper? As in in-game? Or that its inaccurate? As the overarm way is the actual proper way mostly for Spear/Shield users in History.
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you need 100 WPF to use a weapon as the stats are listed.
What do you mean by this?
That hoplite you build looks interesting. I've thought about something like that, but I figured splitting amongst 3 wpfs would just break the build. How are you managing the slots though? Shield + 1h + 2 throwing lances?
Assuming no armour is worn. Need a bit more to compensate for weight wpf penalty.
I don't know, I plan on using a Broad Short Sword, which is 102 speed. I think ~100 wpf is enough even after wpf penalties. I was more worried about the pole wpf, since their attacks are quite a bit slower especially stacked with the shield penalty.
Phalanx, my understanding of a Hoplite (and I may well be wrong), is that they usually carried pretty long spears and switched to short swords in close combat. I'd imagine the spears they use would be longer than the war spear, and the light lance doesn't seem that far off.
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Phalanx, my understanding of a Hoplite (and I may well be wrong), is that they usually carried pretty long spears and switched to short swords in close combat. I'd imagine the spears they use would be longer than the war spear, and the light lance doesn't seem that far off.
Well, yeah.
But Hoplites and Phalangites are two different things.
Ancient Macedonian Phalanx used veeery long spears, while Greek Hoplites had way shorter spears.
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@ Aristea
Yes, 100prof is enough. My previous 21/15 build had 109 pole prof, 105 onehand prof (or something like that). Never felt like I was disadvantaged in terms of weapon speed (I used a grosse messer).
Also, if you're willing to drop 4-5 points of IF you can put that into riding.
With that, there is a huge variety of play styles available to you. I find it to be the most general and effective hybrid builds, mostly due to the variety of onehanders and polearms compared to the other weapons.