cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Phew on August 10, 2011, 10:06:34 pm
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As it stands now, the drawbacks of some "unbalanced" weapons outweigh their benefits. Unbalanced means:
-The feinting window is smaller; not a huge drawback unless you are dueling (unbalanced weapons are usually too slow to effectively duel anyway, so not a big deal)
-You suffer a delay after blocking with an unbalanced weapon (a HUGE drawback, since your opponent can just keep swinging without fear of a counter-attack)
Some 2H weapons (like the Great Maul and Morningstar) have awesome bonuses to compensate for being unbalanced (high blunt/pierce damage, crushthrough on the maul), so these weapons are somewhat popular. However, other unbalanced weapons (especially Bardiches, Voulges, and Maces) are now practically extinct.
I say add the following mechanic to unbalanced weapons:
-After blocking a swing from an unbalanced weapon (with either weapon or shield), you have a chance to suffer the "stagger" effect, based on the weight ratio between the unbalanced weapon and the blocking weapon/shield
-This effect wouldn't last long enough to allow the unbalanced-wielder to get a "free hit" in, but it would prevent an immediate counter-attack and the subsequent "block lock" that unbalanced wielders currently face
With the current implementation, I can swing my huge, heavy Mighty Great Long Bardiche at a peasant wielding a sickle, he blocks once with his puny farm implement like he's brushing away a gnat (defying all three of Newton's Laws of Motion) and then is in my face hacking away, and I can't ever counter-attack unless I can pull off a chamber or make him glance. This is ridiculous.
Blocking huge, heavy weapons should take a toll on the blocker. As a bonus, we may start to see more variety among polearms instead of everyone and their mother wielding a Bec.
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heh staggers and disarms would be pretty fun
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Holding attacks with high weight weapons can achieve this already but effects are for the most part unnoticable.
Nice idea but itd need some tweeking IMO
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Makes sense but only if you also include a chance for unbalanced weapon users to be disarmed when they connect with a bad swing.
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This is most likely impossible to do without WSE but I really dislike this suggestion. Most weapons with the 'Unbalanced' tag have it for a good reason and giving them something as powerful as a stagger or a disarm (in battle a single stagger means you can die instantly) would make them overpowered. I used to use a Mighty Great Long Bardiche and I never had any problem whatsoever dueling with it because it has great length and weapon weight, meaning you can outrange opponents easily and stun their weapons to force them to block once more. The GLB also has a very high chance to one hit kill if you aim for the head, either with a side swing or an overhead, or by holding your attack (increase damage a lot, forgot the exact number). If you are experiencing problems with fast weapons I suggest you to stun them, most of the time people don't notice it and get killed by a single mistake. If you can kick you should definitely use it when you are being face hugged, you can sometimes hit them before they recover.
EDIT: Currently using a Mighty Long Hafted Spiked Mace which also has the 'Unbalanced' tag and I'm having no problems either with it. The knockdown is lovely.
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I don't like this idea, primarily because high weight weapons already have a chance to weapon stun. Many unbalanced weapons have bonus vs shields anyways, AND the unbalanced hammers already have crushthrough.
So when attacking a shield you have:
-a chance to stagger
-a chance to stun via weapon weight
-(sometimes) double damage
-(sometimes) a chance to crushthrough
-(sometimes) a chance to knockdown
Not to mention once the shield breaks you get a 'free' attack as well. Just seems like overkill to a class that is already severely disadvantaged against these type of unbalanced weapons.
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Those of you against this idea; are you not bored with the sea of becs and 2H swords every match? Personally, I'd like to see more weapon variety in the field. I haven't seen a voulge used by anyone but a peasant, and weapons like the studded warclub and long iron mace are now considered "lulz" weapons.
You naysayers didn't address the HUGE drawback of unbalanced weapons, that once you are on the defensive, you are stuck on the defensive until you can force a glance or pull off a chamber block. I'm fine with this mechanic, but there should also be a mechanic that allows for a chance for the unbalanced wielder to maintain initiative during a fight. This "weapon stun effect" that you mention doesn't have any meaningful impact as far as I've observed: the peasant with the sickle can still counter-attack after blocking my swing (Newton be damned), but I can't do the same to him.
Obviously any weapon can be effective in the hands of a skilled player. But the fact is that right now, using an unbalanced weapon without crushthrough is a conscious self-nerf.
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I'll start by saying I misread the OP slightly and thought this change was directed solely against shields.
When I say the weapon stun effect I mean if you have a heavy weapon (as most unbalanced weapons are) and someone with a lighter weapon blocks there is a chance for them to be 'stunned' and essentially be unable to attack back and will need to block twice. If they try to swing they'll be late and take a hit. Also I'm not sure what you mean about being on the "defensive"... unbalanced just means you have less of a chance to feint or block after beginning a swing, but it shouldn't affect the general swing/block/swing/block format of a fight.
I agree that more weapon diversity in game would be good, but I don't think another 'chance' type effect is the way to go. Perhaps just buffing damage from these weapons or reducing cost a bit would help.
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I primarily use the Great Bardiche with the Morningstar as a backup--swapping out to the morningstar in tight quarter or when needing to open a can. I really don't notice a disadvantage to the weapons being unbalanced and I'm not amazing nor have I been playing long but I am usually competitive in kills (after ditching archery anyways). No complaints from me on how the unbalanced weapons work.
I've seen Frogger tearing it up with the Mace lately on siege. Been on the receiving end more than I'd like :)
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. unbalanced just means you have less of a chance to feint or block after beginning a swing, but it shouldn't affect the general swing/block/swing/block format of a fight.
I had this same misconception, which is why I originally loomed my GLB, since I don't feint anyway. However, at least with the 87 speed GLB, the "swing/block/swing/block" doesn't apply. Against any non-unbalanced weapon, once I block, I don't have time to counter-attack before my opponent's next swing lands. I always get hit by my opponent's second consecutive attack while I'm less than halfway through my swing. So I have to perpetually block, or hope like hell for a glance or that I can pull off a chamber. It's like unbalanced weapons have a 100% chance to receive this "stun after block" mechanic you mentioned.
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I had this same misconception, which is why I originally loomed my GLB, since I don't feint anyway. However, at least with the 87 speed GLB, the "swing/block/swing/block" doesn't apply. Against any non-unbalanced weapon, once I block, I don't have time to counter-attack before my opponent's next swing lands. I always get hit by my opponent's second consecutive attack while I'm less than halfway through my swing. So I have to perpetually block, or hope like hell for a glance or that I can pull off a chamber. It's like unbalanced weapons have a 100% chance to receive this "stun after block" mechanic you mentioned.
I believe something is wrong with your build, computer or internet connection. I have never had this issue while playing with an unbalanced weapon (and I am using one now). What might be causing problems however is the low base speed on the GLB because it affects how fast you can block. Maybe try out a faster unbalanced weapon and see if you have the same issues.
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It could also be general positioning. With the GLB you should try to keep the enemy away from you to abuse your reach advantage. Also perhaps when they are up close you are using a slower overhead or the wrong side swing based on their location?
87 is slow, but not as slow as a mallet or another short type crushthrough weapon.
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I'll see if I can find someone to help me test on the duel server later. My observations are based on "real-world" encounters, which obviously aren't controlled.
But I find myself getting hit while trying to counter-attack after a block almost every round, when everyone keeps telling me this isn't possible.
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I would like to see bigger chance for "stunned" for unbalanced weapons. Feeling this happens quite rarely, myself having this effect pretty much as a peasant, I'd hope this to happen more often. Unbalanced weapons would be a great class to have this trait. Blocking a crude bar mace successfully with a wooden club is just something that feels wrong.