cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Seabhac on August 09, 2011, 10:51:50 pm

Title: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on August 09, 2011, 10:51:50 pm
Hello everyone, as some of you may know I've been working on a scene and learning how to use the editor. Stonehammer is it's name and it does have some back story that is shared with the Snowhawk Clan. For those of you who have never heard of us, SHC originally was formed as a pre-release pvp/rp guild for Age of Conan. We had some great times in AoC and many of them revolved around the siege feature that was a major source of fun and activity for us. The sieges were based around six different battle keeps spread through out the game, Stonehammer being one of them(and for many considered to be the best)in the Cimmeria border kingdoms.

We basically owned and maintained Stonehammer for a very long time, around a year or so until our clan retired from the game and gave it away to a friendly guild in a rpvp event. All of us have very fond memories of great battles in and all around the keep. So when I learned of Warband having an editor it immediately came to mind as a must do project. The layout is pretty accurate, somethings are different of course but I feel it turned out to be a very good port.

Regardless of all that I whole heartedly encourage you to give it a spin and tell me what you think, after all it is my first scene.

Stonehammer_v1.4.rar containing .sco & scene codes (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bzr4umDVElNsQVBvZGFJeE1TbUN3RHdVaTE3X21MQQ)
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Digglez on August 09, 2011, 10:54:59 pm
1.  open up your steam screenshot pages you linked, right click on the screenshot image & COPY IMAGE URL
2.  paste actual image URL into this post, highlight it and hit the image button
3. highlight image tagged URL and use the spoiler button

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on August 09, 2011, 10:59:11 pm
Can't tell if you are trying to be a sarcastic douche or are just a douche.

I understand what spoiler bbc tags are, the images are 1920x1080.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: zagibu on August 09, 2011, 11:12:54 pm
Looks interesting, but how can the inner walls be scaled? I see only 1 gate, no ladders...
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on August 10, 2011, 05:42:17 am
Intentional bottle neck, all gates and doors are breakable with the gates being Sally type. The spawn and keep layout is meant to get people from the west end then to the east en and finally to the keep fighting along the way with defensible points that benefit both sides.

By the way you can play on the map already at our unofficial crpg server SHC_Siege_TX server. I also hope to get it on the rotation for the official NA siege server as it is has gotten very favorable reviews so far.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Entaro on August 10, 2011, 07:00:07 am
Looks sweet man, Stonehammer reincarnate!  8-)
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Mendrak on August 10, 2011, 07:00:46 am
Can't wait to test it with more people on there, great map so far  8-)
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Camaris on August 10, 2011, 04:12:06 pm
put it on eu to pls mylet we need some new maps there :)
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: SHC_Phobyk on August 10, 2011, 06:12:10 pm
Awesome map... should be put on live.

 :D
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Thokan on August 11, 2011, 08:04:40 pm
Fantastic job! I really love the landscape around it. Looks EXACTLY like Cimmerian End. A job very well done!

Seeing that tower representing the Alchemy Tower brings fond memories of sieges back  :mrgreen: Jumping on your server to try it out immediately!
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Vingnir the Wanderer on August 12, 2011, 07:35:14 am
Damn, been outta town, but yeah this map is really top notch (and i think i'm bieng very failrly unbiased here), and really not only feels more like 'Stonehammer' than the original one, but Seabhac put alot of nice balancing touches in that i think might be alot of fun,

I think we all owe ya thanks for doin this man   :)
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Draggon on August 12, 2011, 04:06:33 pm
Yeah Seabhac really did a great job on this map.  We've tested it out quite a bit but it does need a more "live" test with larger battles.  Can't wait to try that out.

/cheer Seabhac!
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Thokan on August 12, 2011, 07:26:22 pm
I think some trebuchet and catapult props would not be totally out of order, for that lovely Age of Conan siege feeling  :wink:
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on August 18, 2011, 06:30:00 pm
Not at all, added them and some tents also roughly where they would have been in AoC. Included a few more light sources at the main gate also for when night happens.

Going to re-pm you Airith per your instructions in this thread (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,94.0.html) and send one to Mylet also, for the EU servers. Hopefully Stonehammer can be added soon because everyone seems to enjoy it when they play on it.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Mendrak on August 19, 2011, 04:52:22 pm
I updated it on our server as well. If anyone else is using this on their server, let us know. We'd really like to test it with more players.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on August 23, 2011, 10:38:28 am
Mylet did you get that pm I sent out about Stonehammer being added?
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Punisher on August 29, 2011, 06:58:37 pm
Added Stonehammer to the EU servers 2 days ago. Let it play for a while so people get used to it before asking for any changes. Currently it is simply too big, I played it 4 times and not once did the attackers even get into the flag courtyard.

The only way to balance it without major changes that would alter the map design (which is great btw) would be moving attacker spawns inside the first courtyard, around the gate area (the gate should be removed or if possible replaced with a destroyed gate texture). Defender spawns should all be inside the 2nd courtyard, and the flag should be moved inside the large house. This will significantly reduce the time for attackers to reach the flag and with 1 less gate to breach it should be balanced.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Draggon on August 29, 2011, 10:23:44 pm
Wow that's amazing how much the dynamic changes when you add alot more players.  We tested the crap out of it but with only 10-12 players.  With that many, the Attackers actually won alot more than Defense.

Good feedback though Punisher.  I'm sure Seabhac will be taking a look at your suggestions and working on some changes, plus we have some more feedback to look at on our forums as well.

One of the main things we want to avoid is making it too easy for the Offense, as alot of maps are currently.  And that's really the opposite of how a Siege should be.  Obviously in IRL sieges the advantage for the defenders was huge; however, this being just a game, that advantage should be toned down to being very minimal.   
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on October 12, 2011, 09:19:03 am
Quote from: Punisher on August 29, 2011, 06:58:37 pm
Added Stonehammer to the EU servers 2 days ago. Let it play for a while so people get used to it before asking for any changes. Currently it is simply too big, I played it 4 times and not once did the attackers even get into the flag courtyard.

The only way to balance it without major changes that would alter the map design (which is great btw) would be moving attacker spawns inside the first courtyard, around the gate area (the gate should be removed or if possible replaced with a destroyed gate texture). Defender spawns should all be inside the 2nd courtyard, and the flag should be moved inside the large house. This will significantly reduce the time for attackers to reach the flag and with 1 less gate to breach it should be balanced.

Thanks a lot for the feedback punisher, haven't had any time to post here or work on the map. Really seconding what draggon says also, a lot of the maps in the rotation are really easily won. Through ladder usage and design etc. I never got to play on the map while it was up so can't really say in the first person.

Really thought players would be enjoy it as is, since the map is so ladder friendly. I will update it though and move the spawns around for the offense and defense. Probably change the siege tower also. Man really wish I could have played on it lol
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on March 11, 2012, 03:42:10 am
Welll sorry for the delay on re-balancing the map been real busy, have had some time recently and its come up in some discussions.

You can dl the .rar package here (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bzr4umDVElNsQVBvZGFJeE1TbUN3RHdVaTE3X21MQQ) which is the 1.4 version of Stonehammer

The main changes to the map are,

Changes
•Added a Ladder to the Trade Post upper floor, the attackers can now use this ladder as a secondary way over the inner wall.

•Removed the Ladder on the outer south east Gaurd Tower.

•Removed the front pair of doors on the outer gate.

•Removed inner gate

•Re-worked inner gate area and archers nest to make it more fun.

•Re-arranged the defensive spawns; moved spawns to the inner rampart and back rocks and north outer wall guard tower.

•Re-arranged offensive spawns; Split the spawns into two groups and placed them much closer to the front gate and siege tower.

•Re-pathed the Siege tower so that it now will land on the frontal southeast outer wall near the rocks. Also shortened the length of the tower's path.

•Moved the flag to a new position.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on March 12, 2012, 12:48:04 am
anyone can also now play the latest version on the SHC server
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Jacko on March 12, 2012, 06:07:12 pm
I ran around on it, and it looks good. Might be too big, but I'll put it up on EU2 sometimes this week.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on March 13, 2012, 03:22:23 am
Thanks Jacko, I updated the file again due to some more minor rock fixing. Swapped the urls so you can still dl the proper rar filed from the 1.4 post or the op.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on March 15, 2012, 05:44:51 am
So heard from a little bird that Stonehammer was added, looking forward to the need round of feedback and also hopefully will get a shot at playing on it before anything happens. lol
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Digglez on March 19, 2012, 06:45:59 am
played 4 rounds today on NA siege and one of the rounds the flag would not come down at all even though defenders were well past 5ft away from flag.

also one of my friends got stuck between the siege ramp and wall
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on March 20, 2012, 09:01:25 am
Quote from: Digglez on March 19, 2012, 06:45:59 am
played 4 rounds today on NA siege and one of the rounds the flag would not come down at all even though defenders were well past 5ft away from flag.

also one of my friends got stuck between the siege ramp and wall

Weird have not seen that happen, I wonder if the positioning of the flag is doing it. The flag was being moved to a different location anyways so hopefully that will fix it. Seen the stuck issue in game also, that has already been fixed for the next release.

Thanks for feedback.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Mustikki on March 21, 2012, 11:50:50 pm
This map seems to favour defenders too much. Maybe a little tweaking the flag position, could turn this more balanced.

As the flag is now at the red area, i would suggest move it to green area. The pink place is the last bottleneck for attacks atm, which makes it a really hard to break as the defenders archers are mainly positioned themself on the yellow marked area and infantry at the stairs (pink).
Making the change would still let defender archers camp at the yellow area if there is not other than 2 ways to them, but the attackers would be able to reach the flag.
You can see the attackers has been stopped at the second gate at this round.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Digglez on March 22, 2012, 06:08:29 am
map is simply not fun or well designed without deployable ladders.

Attackers have 1 realistic path to get the to flag that goes thru 3 choke points...although defenders have no reason to do anything other than camp the flag.  Since it takes attackers a good minute or more to get there, its not fun to play.


I like the style, theme and energy you put in, just too big and not working ATM
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Draggon on March 22, 2012, 02:28:41 pm
There's actually a 2nd route to the flag that's just very commonly known yet.
If you go into the Tradehouse just along the outside corner of the inner wall, there's a deployable ladder that goes up to that left inner tower (left for attackers).  Once you take the tower (which is hardly ever defended) you can clear the walls of archers, and/or proceed to the left side door of the keep.  Bring 2-3 guys with you, break down a couple of doors and you have a secondary route to the flag.  Even by myself I've managed to surprise attack the flag from the left side 2-3 times in one round.

However, this being said - it is still heavily in favor of defenders although we've seen it go 3-0 in favor of attackers before on NA.  Only once though did this happen as far as I know.  Most other times it's 0-3, 1-3, defenders.

Seabhac's currently working on some changes that'll even it out just a tad more.  One of which will be moving the flag to a more accessible location for attackers.  The hard part is, to not make yet another map that's too easy for offense.  So just another 1 or 2 tweaks and it oughta be very well balanced.

Nice work Seab!  Didn't mean to steal your thunder. =P
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Jacko on March 22, 2012, 04:24:13 pm
I have no problem with the map. Having a map that is easy for defenders is not a problem. That being said, I do think the map as a whole is too big, but there is nothing to do about that short of making a new map (some tweaks, as Mustikki pointed out, will improve it). It is actually one of the better siege maps we have.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Jacko on March 25, 2012, 02:23:00 pm
Been playing the map a bit, and one big problem is people climbing the mountain, going behind the castle. You need to block off the entire mountain with barriers.  Another thing is the inconsistent FPS on the map. You should remove most of the items on the map (like all the shields, swords and other stuff lying around, they keep the FPS fluttering). It's a shame to remove it, but it's better to keep props as low as possible then people having FPS problems.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Draggon on March 25, 2012, 02:36:37 pm
Yeah I saw that too Jacko.  But does it do any good to go back there?  I don't think you can get to the flag that way.  Or am I wrong on that.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Digglez on March 25, 2012, 06:58:24 pm
Quote from: Jacko on March 22, 2012, 04:24:13 pm
I have no problem with the map. Having a map that is easy for defenders is not a problem. That being said, I do think the map as a whole is too big, but there is nothing to do about that short of making a new map (some tweaks, as Mustikki pointed out, will improve it). It is actually one of the better siege maps we have.

I have no problems with a defensible map, if its FUN to play.  Camping the flag as defense is NOT fun, not strategic, requires no thought. 

Ever seen the 'places people get killed' on TF2 maps from Valve?  A good map will have red dots of kills evenly distributed throughout the entirety of the map with a few extra dense spots.  Currently your map has one uninteresting blob of deaths at the flag.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Jacko on March 26, 2012, 11:43:27 pm
Quote from: Draggon on March 25, 2012, 02:36:37 pm
Yeah I saw that too Jacko.  But does it do any good to go back there?  I don't think you can get to the flag that way.  Or am I wrong on that.

Yeah I think you can jump down far to the right (from attacker perspective) and get close to flag. Biggest problem is ranged sneaking around up there. Mountaineers are just bad.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Draggon on March 27, 2012, 12:19:51 am
Yeah good point - didn't think about the archers.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Arn De Gothia on March 27, 2012, 12:46:40 am
I really like this map since it challenges attackers to attack in a concerted effort as opposed to trickling in. I would suggest two changes.

1. Move the flag inside the fort with two gates. This will give a thematic place for defender's last stand, but also will force defenders to fight three different entrances to protect flag.
2. Make a deployable ladder when attackers get through first set of gates, so attackers can siege second wall. This will also spread out fighting, since all attackers will not run straight through bottom gates of the second wall.

In conclusion, great map, and the world of Robert E. Howard is one of my favorite fantasy settings?

Aquilonian fortress next? Temple of Set battle location? City fight in Zamora?
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on April 02, 2012, 01:38:58 am
In regards to the ladder, do you mean in addition to the one in the trade post?


Thanks for the feed back,
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on April 05, 2012, 07:04:05 am
Ok! the 1.5 update for Stonehammer is finished.

Download ► https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8Cx4uk8v0kBUWpMSGVCSzlRaFNENXg1SmpTc3c3QQ

Changes include but are not limited to:
•Flag moved to a more neutral position

•The Front gate has been destroyed

•Architect House and some Outer Walls have been damaged

•Inner gate has been re-installed

•Improved the Inner gatehouse archer walkway

•Players in the Trade post should no longer have major camera issues

•Added sign to the Trade post

•Alchemy Tower re-positioned to be more useful

•Re-arranged both offense and defense spawns

•Shortened Siege tower path

•Re-arranged pre-existing Barriers and added more

•Removed excess scene props, map is now less than 400k in size
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Seabhac on April 06, 2012, 10:57:36 am
Quote from: Arn De Gothia on March 27, 2012, 12:46:40 am
I really like this map since it challenges attackers to attack in a concerted effort as opposed to trickling in. I would suggest two changes.

1. Move the flag inside the fort with two gates. This will give a thematic place for defender's last stand, but also will force defenders to fight three different entrances to protect flag.
2. Make a deployable ladder when attackers get through first set of gates, so attackers can siege second wall. This will also spread out fighting, since all attackers will not run straight through bottom gates of the second wall.

In conclusion, great map, and the world of Robert E. Howard is one of my favorite fantasy settings?

Aquilonian fortress next? Temple of Set battle location? City fight in Zamora?
By the way Yeah Robert E Howard!! WOOO! :D

Next scene will be a port of the area called "Crom's Rock" in age of conan, that will be a battle map.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Elmetiacos on April 07, 2012, 05:40:45 pm
Okay, I've just played on Stonehammer and with the changes it seems a lot of the scene is just a waste of resources. Here's a screenshot looking at the flag:
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The house is pointless now because it's behind the flag and not on the attackers' route. The stairs are the same. Now there's the broken burning entrance, the siege tower also serves no purpose. I suggest eliminating the siege tower and also taking away or unlocking all doors from the house - that way defending archers could enter and leave quickly and the attackers could go through it as a sneaky route to the flag...
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on April 07, 2012, 09:36:18 pm
The new position of the gate is also crappy now....due to downjumping defenders the gate usually doesn't break before 1:00 ....

And son far as attackers understand that it's faster to go through the house on the left and then over the ladder ontop of the walls, noone will ever take that way again cause it's pointless.

The map was unblanced before but now it's even worse.
Title: Re: Stonehammer Keep - Siege Scene
Post by: Digglez on April 09, 2012, 07:33:24 pm
all of the combat happens at the 20x20 area at flag, very uninteresting, boring, mindless TK & lag fest