cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Phalanx300 on August 08, 2011, 01:51:43 pm
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Didn't English Longbowman deploy Spikes before battle? Might be nice to add them. Would add protection from horses instead of the siege shield which just offers protection against arrows.
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nice idea, especiallly in strat battles
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simple, but great idea...
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I would suggest they would only slow foot soldiers and hurt cav. They should also be destructable, although a lot tougher than siege shields. How wide constructions can you possible deploy? If they were only 2 meters wide it wouldn't have that much use. They should be 3-4 meters wide.
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I would suggest they would only slow foot soldiers and hurt cav. They should also be destructable, although a lot tougher than siege shields. How wide constructions can you possible deploy? If they were only 2 meters wide it wouldn't have that much use. They should be 3-4 meters wide.
but then atleast 2 slots, so the archer himself can't deploy them. otherwise it would be OP
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Please no damage causing.
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How about make them as wide as a siege shield, but they just stop horses (rear them). No damage. Can be walked through by infantry, but slows them down slightly.
What do you think?
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Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3jVUCYd6S8#t=17s
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maybe it shouldbe like the spikes we already have in some maps, you have to jump over them as infantry, and it stops cav i guess. but i would prefer if cav would be damaged by there own f*cking charge(i'm cav myself :mrgreen:), it would be cool, and especially in ally's and stuff it can block cavalry totally.
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Good Idea, would be perfect for strategus. problem is how wide to make it because archers would line up in rows to fire volleys and if this stakes takes 2 slots how long will it be so not all archers need to waste 2 slots.
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Good Idea, would be perfect for strategus. problem is how wide to make it because archers would line up in rows to fire volleys and if this stakes takes 2 slots how long will it be so not all archers need to waste 2 slots.
archers shouldn't take them, siege shields are mostly intended to defend shooting archers right, but archers can't deploy them because they are 2 slots, but it should be about twice as wide as a siege shield i think?
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I played mount & muskett yesterday while crpg was down and saw a big spike barricade. Would be nice for strategus & siege, especially if it cost less than siege shield
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Would be awesome.
It should definately cause damage to horses, dependant on how fast they were going. Like the spikes on Medieval 2. The horses all die and the riders flip over the spikes, epic.
Edit:
The proper name for these are Stakes.
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How to make them damage horses and not people? At what speed should horses recieve damage, and how much damage should be recieved?
These should be destroyable, of course. Just image an impenetrable circle of these.
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yea, but not that a lancer can ride up to them at full speed and thrust, destroying them before he reaches them, so he can just walk true them.
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Old old old idea, not sure why it never saw the light of day. Nonetheless, would be fun to see them implemented.
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Although it would look good and realistic on the battlefield, i think it will bring imbalance to the game. Ranged classes are still quite dominant in strat. battles and , like i predicted , cavalry is already countered by the simpliest teamwork and battle awareness, not to mention countless pikemen and spearmen. I'm sorry but add spikes in strat. battles and you would have archers completely dominate in strat again.
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Although it would look good and realistic on the battlefield, i think it will bring imbalance to the game. Ranged classes are still quite dominant in strat. battles and , like i predicted , cavalry is already countered by the simpliest teamwork and battle awareness, not to mention countless pikemen and spearmen. I'm sorry but add spikes in strat. battles and you would have archers completely dominate in strat again.
they don't have to be in strat
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Somewhat on topic, I was wondering if Polearm users could be given the ability to prop their lance, similar to cavalry couching theirs.
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Somewhat on topic, I was wondering if Polearm users could be given the ability to prop their lance, similar to cavalry couching theirs.
this topic is about that http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,12626.0.html
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I'm usually an archer - but that does not count here.
I would love to see stakes. Not because I hate cav. I hate Cav the same as I hate Polearmers, twohanders, shielders, archers. But not as much as I hate throwers or XBownubs.
Stakes would bring a bit more tactical fun into the game. I would make them more expensive than a siegeshield. maybe 1k more. And they have to have 150% Width of a Shieldwall Think that would be great.
Siege-Shields should, by the way, same as ladders, have more HP. I kill a ladder with one strike of my GLAxe and a Siege-Shield with two. thats boring. they need 50% more HP. at least. Especially ladders are broken by archers before they reach the wall. :(
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Why not just let people plant single stakes only. Each Stake takes up 1 slot and you can carry/deploy as many as you have room for. This way, deploying a wall of stakes is a team effort and a single person bringing a stake to a battle won't really benefit at all.
As for damage I don't think there should be any. Horses should just rear up and stop as in IRL a horse would not be stupid enough to charge onto something that will hurt them.
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Why not just let people plant single stakes only. Each Stake takes up 1 slot and you can carry/deploy as many as you have room for. This way, deploying a wall of stakes is a team effort and a single person bringing a stake to a battle won't really benefit at all.
As for damage I don't think there should be any. Horses should just rear up and stop as in IRL a horse would not be stupid enough to charge onto something that will hurt them.
it would, if the rider would enforce the animal to charge up to it. a horse wouldn't charge into a group of guys with spears aimed at the horse you say. well it does when the rider enforces the charge, same story, and you are right it wouldn't if it were on it's own, but with the rider, you get it.
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4th time it's been suggested.
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it would, if the rider would enforce the animal to charge up to it. a horse wouldn't charge into a group of guys with spears aimed at the horse you say. well it does when the rider enforces the charge, same story, and you are right it wouldn't if it were on it's own, but with the rider, you get it.
That's not actually true. If it were true then Cavalry would have always been able to beat infantry squares during the Napoleonic era. All it would have take was for 1 brave rider to take the risk and make the charge. The fact is that the horses ALWAYS shied away and refused to charge the wall of men with bayonets. The only recorded instance of cavalry breaking a well formed square in the entire peninsular war was when a horse was shot just before the point it would have turned away and the then dead horses momentum carried it into the the wall of bayonets forming a breach for other horsemen to charge into. The other times cavalry managed to break a square were when the square was poorly formed or the Cav had Infantry/Artillery support.
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That's not actually true. If it were true then Cavalry would have always been able to beat infantry squares during the Napoleonic era. All it would have take was for 1 brave rider to take the risk and make the charge. The fact is that the horses ALWAYS shied away and refused to charge the wall of men with bayonets. The only recorded instance of cavalry breaking a well formed square in the entire peninsular war was when a horse was shot just before the point it would have turned away and the then dead horses momentum carried it into the the wall of bayonets forming a breach for other horsemen to charge into. The other times cavalry managed to break a square were when the square was poorly formed or the Cav had Infantry/Artillery support.
horses wont jusmp into a solid piece of mass, like a testudo formation but they will charge into some samigos sticked randomly in the ground.(seriously, look it up on wikipedia or something)
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horses wont jusmp into a solid piece of mass, like a testudo formation but they will charge into some samigos sticked randomly in the ground.(seriously, look it up on wikipedia or something)
Only if they don't see the stakes. Horses aren't stupid, they won't do things they think will hurt them. Just look at how they train show jumping horses. Initially the horse will try and avoid even a low jump so they first lie a jump rail on the floor and walk the horse over it. This proves to the horse that going over the rail doesn't hurt. Gradually they raise the height of the rail forcing the horse to start jumping, but each time proving to the horse that it doesn't hurt. Finally they end up with a horse that will jump stupidly high fences but even then if you get the approach wrong the horse will turn away.
How do you propose they prove to a horse that running onto a spike doesn't hurt?
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Only if they don't see the stakes. Horses aren't stupid, they won't do things they think will hurt them. Just look at how they train show jumping horses. Initially the horse will try and avoid even a low jump so they first lie a jump rail on the floor and walk the horse over it. This proves to the horse that going over the rail doesn't hurt. Gradually they raise the height of the rail forcing the horse to start jumping, but each time proving to the horse that it doesn't hurt. Finally they end up with a horse that will jump stupidly high fences but even then if you get the approach wrong the horse will turn away.
How do you propose they prove to a horse that running onto a spike doesn't hurt?
if the horse is confident it can make the jump, it will do so, ofc if ther isn't an easier way. but if the rider forces the horse to make a jump, over in this case stakes, though the horse isn't sure it will make it, it will do it. maybe you haven't succeeded in doing so, but i have, do you think any horse thinks it's nice to jump over a freaking 2m high fence with cold water behind it, no. from what you are stating, a horse would never make a jump like that, though they do.
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if the horse is confident it can make the jump, it will do so, ofc if ther isn't an easier way. but if the rider forces the horse to make a jump, over in this case stakes, though the horse isn't sure it will make it, it will do it. maybe you haven't succeeded in doing so, but i have, do you think any horse thinks it's nice to jump over a freaking 2m high fence with cold water behind it, no. from what you are stating, a horse would never make a jump like that, though they do.
When did I state that horses can't jump 2m high fences with water behind them? If you read what I say I argue that horses gain the confidence to jump bigger obstacles by first going over smaller obstacles. This is called training - something which is impossible to do for charging into a sharp object due to its inherently fatal nature. Or are you saying you can take any untrained horse with the physical attributes to jump a 2m high fence and get it to jump that fence first time every time?
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When did I state that horses can't jump 2m high fences with water behind them? If you read what I say I argue that horses gain the confidence to jump bigger obstacles by first going over smaller obstacles. This is called training - something which is impossible to do for charging into a sharp object due to its inherently fatal nature. Or are you saying you can take any untrained horse with the physical attributes to jump a 2m high fence and get it to jump that fence first time every time?
evey one(except you apperently) knows that a horse will charge into a stake.
and there is no AI for horses ffs, and the point of stakes was to hurt horses.
if what you say is true, and horses wont go to stakes or guys with spears, than why were stakes pointy? BECAUSE HORSES DID RUN INTO THEM FFS!!!
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If you can train a 15th century plated warhorse from the French Lancers to run into pikewalls on command to push past them, then you can train any warhorse to jump low stakes.
And ffs this is a game where intelligent human beings can willingly run naked towards five archers on a suicide run...
Everything in Calradia is bravely stupid.
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If you can train a 15th century plated warhorse from the French Lancers to run into pikewalls on command to push past them, then you can train any warhorse to jump low stakes.
And ffs this is a game where intelligent human beings can willingly run naked towards five archers on a suicide run...
Everything in Calradia is bravely stupid.
àgreed!
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evey one(except you apperently) knows that a horse will charge into a stake.
and there is no AI for horses ffs, and the point of stakes was to hurt horses.
if what you say is true, and horses wont go to stakes or guys with spears, than why were stakes pointy? BECAUSE HORSES DID RUN INTO THEM FFS!!!
Ok - lets try some simple logic.
Lets say you are right and that a rider can make a horse run into a stake.
By the same token, a rider can make a horse run into a man, which are afterall soft and squishy.
Again by the same token, the rider can charge their horse into a group of men.
Why then, could Cavalry NOT make their horses run into a group of men aiming spears (or bayonets) at them? It can't be the men because both you and I agree that its perfectly reasonable for Cavalry to charge infantry. In fact before the introduction of the Pike it was the dominant Cavalry tactic on the Battlefield (cavalry riding knee to knee in a dense formation and mowing down everything in front of them). This is why Pikes were used! If it was the wall of men that stopped horses from charging, then the pike and subsequently the bayonet would never have been needed.
As for why stakes are pointy. Well that's to deter horses from walking past them. A horse won't charge blunt stakes either, but once close enough to realise they won't hurt, a horse will walk past them. A sharp stake on the other hand will continue to worry the horse and cause the rider considerably more problems when trying to get through a line of stakes.
Btw Tears, we're talking about charging into stakes rather than jumping over them. However, perhaps you are right though and deployable cRPG stakes should cause damage to horses even if its just to punish the idiocy of their riders.
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Deployable stakes should cause damage.
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i'm not even gonna react on tomas's dump reply.
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had this idea few times already too..
add a deployable barrier with sharp spikes in one direction to block cav! (or even injure it) :P
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Perhaps make them a simple version of the spikes in siege? Deep enough that horses can't leap over them but wide enough that a considerate footman could walk through them. Also, if a horse charges them straight, then the horse rears up. Essentially the spikes would function as really durable traffic pylons used for a medieval purpose.
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They should kill the horse. Any player who is stupid enough to run their horse into a wall of sharp sticks deserved this. And to make sure that infantry doesn't abuse them by placing them right before the horse hits them, make it so that they take some time to set up, maybe 10 seconds. Enough time to steer a horse away but short enough to do it quickly.
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They should kill the horse. Any player who is stupid enough to run their horse into a wall of sharp sticks deserved this. And to make sure that infantry doesn't abuse them by placing them right before the horse hits them, make it so that they take some time to set up, maybe 10 seconds. Enough time to steer a horse away but short enough to do it quickly.
you know what 10 seconds are on a battlefield?
just let them rise like siege shields and take them x3 hits more.
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GREAT IDEA!
EASY TO DO!
TASTE GREAT, LESS FILLING!
Put spikes in the throw category. I've seen wood spikes on some maps, just grab some of those, put em in the throwing category and make em like siege shields.
You have to throw them to activate them and horse can run up against them but would completely stop when they get to them just like a wall or pike thrust.
Horses back then would NEVER ride into them deliberately and if they would come up to them they would stop and do that horse Whining sound they make and kick up and stuff, but it would stop their charge cold.
No damage just stops horse charge dead in its tracks.
GREAT IDEA!
I'M RICK JAMES BITCH!
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10 seconds is a long time, but I think they should be a planned thing, not to be used at the spur of the moment.
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they should be deployed just like siege shields, so a horse can still jump over them when it isn't fully deployed yet, they should also do damage and not be jumpable when fully deployed.