cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Slots on August 04, 2011, 02:06:14 pm

Title: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Slots on August 04, 2011, 02:06:14 pm

I currently have a thrower with 115 throwing wpf and 8 Power Throw. According to the math in this post (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2722.0.html) and the assumed 14 wpf per PT, I should have a total effective armor weight of 10.76.

My default set is this:

Desert Turban	0.3 weight
Dark Cavalry Robe	9.5 weight
Sarranid Leather Boots	0.5 Weight
Leather Gloves	0 weight

With this loadout I do not get the "Your proficiency in throwing weapons is too low" message. If the assumed weight values are correct, this totals to 10.9 weight.
However, when I put this set on:

Sarrranid Warrior Cap	0.5 weight
Dark Cavalry Robe	9.5 weight
Rus Shoes	0.3 Weight
Leather Gloves	0 weight

For a total weight of 11.3. I still do not get the message.

Bascinet with Aventail	2.5 weight
Rus Splinted Greaves	2.5 Weight
Mail Gauntlets	0.5 weight

Totals out to 11 weight. No message here either.

Sallet with Visor and Coif	3.8 weight
Red Tunic	0.5 weight
Sarranid Leather Boots	0.5 Weight
Mail Mittens	0.3 weight

Total weight with just a Sallet with Visor and Coif should put me over my limit weight since its x3 would be 11.4. This set gets to total out to 13, way above what I should be sitting at.

However, when I only put on an 11 weight Druzhina Mail Shirt I get the message that my wpf is too low. What is going on here? Are helms really 3x and gloves 2x their weight in regards to wpf? Are Gafferjack's and Waltf4's posts still usable with the latest versions? Or did I just simply fail at math?

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: joespose on August 04, 2011, 02:17:28 pm

I have no idea how it works either. It does seem very odd.
I currently have only 2 power throw and 83 wpf.

when i wear:

Great Helmet with Hat          weight: 3.3
Wisby Gauntlets                   weight: 0.8
Mail Chausses                      weight: 1.8
Heraldic Mail with Surcoat    weight: 13

I do not get the message, but by adding

Coat of Plates                   weight: 19.5

I get the message.
I thought that having over 40wpf per power throw would easily counteract any penalty. but apparently not.

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Peasant_Woman on August 04, 2011, 05:50:32 pm

Head is 3x weight for effective wpf penalty, hands are 2x, legs and chest are 1x. Subtract the new weight from your wpf. Every point of Power throw also lowers your wpf by 14 (or so I remember reading somewhere) after those changes;

Quote from: joespose on August 04, 2011, 02:17:28 pm

I currently have only 2 power throw and 83 wpf.

Great Helmet with Hat          weight: 3.3 x 3 = 9.9
Wisby Gauntlets                   weight: 0.8 x 2 = 1.6
Mail Chausses                      weight: 1.8
Heraldic Mail with Surcoat    weight: 13

TOTAL effective wpf after weight and -14 wpf per PT = 28.7 (enough for 2 PT, barely) 

I do not get the message, but by adding

Coat of Plates                   weight: 19.5

With this instead of Heraldic mail the effective wpf would be 22.2 (not enough for 14 per point of power throw)

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: joespose on August 04, 2011, 08:04:47 pm

ohh i didnt know that power throw also lowers the wpf by -14. Thanks for that info  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Brutal on August 04, 2011, 08:26:14 pm

Meh i m not sure you have to subtract PT *14 AND still have more wpf than 14wpf per PT after that subtraction.

I currently have 8PT with 132wpf and 17.1 total armor weight, i don't get the message.
That couldn't be if it was calculated how Peasent Woman did

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 04, 2011, 08:27:34 pm

PD requires 14, PT requires 13.

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Slots on August 04, 2011, 10:35:57 pm

If it is 13 wpf per PT, I should be able to wear 16.5 effective weight with 8 PT and 115 wpf. I clearly am no where near that when I get the message with the 11 weight Druhizna Mail Shirt.

Either some number is wrong in the equations, the message is weird, or my math could be wrong (highly possible).

I think that helms and gloves might not be x3 and x2 respectively.

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 04, 2011, 11:47:08 pm

Your math is correct.

I dunno what is going on *shrugs*

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Brutal on August 05, 2011, 01:42:01 pm

edited

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Brutal on August 05, 2011, 02:23:57 pm

Disregard my previous post my math was crap (didn't substract 7 of total armor weight)
 let's do it step by step using walt formula and two close but slightly different setup.
One give message the other don't.

Quote

armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)

and

effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7

With two different setup same armor except mail mitten and wisby guntlet:

leg armor 2,  body armor 11.5,  glove 0.3, head 1.3  =====> no message   
effective armor weight= 11.5 +2 + 0.3*2 + 1.3 *3 -7  = 11
armor weight proficiency= 132 (1-0.01*11)
                                    = 117.48

leg armor 2,  body armor 11.5,  glove 0.8, head 1.3  =====> got message
effective armor weight= 11.5 +2 +0.8*2+1.3*3 -7 = 12
armor weight proficiency= 132 (1-0.01*12)
                                    = 116.16

117.5/8*=14.68                                        *8PT
116/8* = 14.5

I do  get the message with 14.5 armor weight proficiency per PT
I do not get the message with 14.68 armor weight proficiency pet PT


So PT requirement is over 14.5 probably 14.6

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Brutal on August 05, 2011, 02:25:27 pm

any questions   :D  ?

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: joespose on August 05, 2011, 06:39:07 pm

I don't like maths, it scares me

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Belmont on August 05, 2011, 06:58:29 pm

PT 8

Head: --
Armor: 9.5
Legs: 0.8
Hands: 1

In order to not get the message I need 122 WPF. I will try to add a 1.8 weight (or 1.5 weight) helmet soon to my load out.

EDIT:

Head: 1.5
Armor: 9.5
Legs: 0.8
Hands: --

If I use this set up I do not get the message. I believe that hand armor, for some reason, is causing a lot more WPF penalty than it should. (122 WPF)

EDIT2:

Head: 1.5 / 1.8
Armor: 9.5
Legs: 0.8
Hands: 0.8

Need 129 WPF.

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Digglez on August 05, 2011, 07:09:59 pm

Ok we know wearing armor lowers your WPF so it will affect your accuracy.  But if you have PT over the requirement of the weapon you are using, do you still benefit from it, if you dont meet the WPF requirement.

IE...If my build has PT6 but only using PT3 javelins..and my armor reduces my armor so I can only pick up PT4 ammo. Is this negating 2PT or JUST preventing picking up of ammo?

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Peasant_Woman on August 05, 2011, 07:32:26 pm

It lowers your PT to suit your wpf (not permanently, just until you get more wpf or wear lighter armor).

Title: Re: Throwing, Power Throw, and Armor. How do they mesh?
Post by: Slots on August 06, 2011, 01:12:01 am

The problem is that with my PT of 8 and only 115 wpf I can make two different sets that supposedly share the same effective weight. One will give me the message while the other will not. If I equip the third set, which totals out to 11 weight (multiplying the helm and hand slots as appropriate) I get no message. If I equip just a piece of body armor that is 11 weight, I get the message.

When I reverse math the 8PT wpf requirement, assuming it is 14, I get results that tell me I can only wear 9.6 weight. This is clearly not the case since I can equip a 10 weight body armor without the message popping up.

Either the message is based on some other formula, or Waltf4's formulas might be out of date. Of course, my math could always be wrong, but I tried to double/triple check it at least.