cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Babelfish on January 04, 2011, 01:16:45 am
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Disclaimer: This post may contain biased views!
Back in march 2010, when i started this game (on the 22nd server) i was completely drawn in by the magic. The big fields with two opposing armies facing off in fight of biblical proportions. Most people were decked in misc gear and there were almost zero knights, horses were rare, few snipers (1-2), some range and a massive amount of melee players. There were debates about the best skill-route, armors, players etc.
Then drama ensued and cRPG changed,
Now instead of the 222 slot server the 22nd clan provided, we had a small 60 slot server ( got upgraded fast tho). Maps changed from open fields to more infantry friendly. Gold & experience gain was slow, and there was a soft-cap to level. Some started to power-level and in a few days/weeks more knights emerged. Medium armor became the norm. The game was still awesome fun, and there was a much larger quantity of melee players as opposed to ranged & cavalry. People were still unsure about the class-routes as there was quite a bit of math behind it all.
Then some shitkid decided to ddos cRPG, which resulted in a database-wipe.
chadz improved much in cRPG, but the players had gone from casuals to power-gamers. Ill admit i was once counted among them, playing for hours upon hours, caught in the mindless hunt for the next level and new armor.
Now everyone was looking to maximize their exp & gold gain. After a few days some people had heavy armor (which had earlier been reserved for a few dedicated gamers, among them BNCshrek, the first to reach black-armor). A week passed, and just like that, heavy armor was now the norm. But it did not stop there; horses, xbows and archers emerged in massive numbers.
Now a few months laters, there are hardly any people not following one of the cookie-cutter builds. Maps has changed to cater for increasing population of cavalry & range. It has been days, if not weeks since i last played a battle on a map that favored infantry.
Q: What does the above text have to do with the current siege phenomena?
Nothing and everything.
You see, in this gaming era everyone feels entitled to be the hero. No one will settle for the side-kick. In the start people were more relaxed towards this game, but as it became more and more popular, the min-maxing started. Now we have a influx of range & mounted players, in addition to the tin-cans. You can no longer play the game as you see fit, if you intend to make a name for yourself (there are of-course exceptions to every rule). Even skilled Mount & blade vets are using the most overpowered armors and weapons, even in duels. After some of the custom made weapon & armors made it into this mod, the old weapons have seen little to no use. Tears are a perfect example of this; It got range, speed and damage, why would anyone use anything else? AFAIK the ninja clan is the only clan still using some form of equipment code for their members. Im happy with my choice of being a ninja, but sometimes, when i lose to worse players because everyone else is using the most ridiculous weapons & armors, i get frustrated.
Thrown into this mix of crazed power-gamers are the casuals and the people refusing to play the min-max game. After dying repeatably to projectiles and horse-bumps for months now, i think people have finally found a sanctuary, still somewhat untouched by the taint thats plaguing the rest of the game. Its so relaxing not to be forced to spin 360 degrees all the time, to look for incoming cavs in additional to dodging arrows. And even if you get shot to pieces, you only have to wait a maximum of 30 seconds before you are up and running again.
I have no clue what future lays ahead of cRPG..
Only chadz and a handful of people really have a clue on how the future cRPG will look like. I doubt the players mentality will change for the better, min-maxing is here to stay. However steps can be taken to ensure a fair and fun game for everyone.
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I know it's overused, but still: the patch will make short work of most of the cavalry and tincans with the upkeep system.
However, I can certainly agree with you: I rarely ever play battle. My nord-themed character gets owned very-very fast. I took up throwing to be able to defend myself from cavalry. Then comes a plated horse, I dodge every single charge, hurl two stacks of heavy throwing axes at the beast, and it's still not slowing down.
Archers don't concern me much (Huscarl shield), but I can relate: big, open fields without any cover are not the best environment for infantry. Rejoice: the patch will nerf the ranged guys too. Slower bows, more WPF-dependent crossbows.
All in all, I think good times are coming.
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I agree with above post.
the ninja clan is the only clan still using some form of equipment code for their members.
And proud of it.
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Tbh, battle maps are one of the worst "fun killers" for me - having to, for the 100th time, attack some village with a
machinegunarcher on every roof... what's the point? Might as well play siege where I have respawns at least.
And siege is great for leveling peasants without going the tedium of playing battle as a peasant (where you have to stick near the melee, and everyone really likes to get +1 kill).
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I actually notice more deaths by
machinegunsassholesbastardsum, oh yeah, archers on siege servers than the battle servers tbh. And the NA siege server is almost always empty though the few times I was in douchebag mode on my archer on the siege server I had a blast playing CS. :twisted:
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I actually notice more deaths by machinegunsassholesbastardsum, oh yeah, archers on siege servers than the battle servers tbh. And the NA siege server is almost always empty though the few times I was in douchebag mode on my archer on the siege server I had a blast playing CS. :twisted:
But you respawn, and if you're a attacker then you have infinite respawns - so it makes it less annoying.
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Also, there's more cover in siege.
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AFAIK the ninja clan is the only clan still using some form of equipment code for their members.
Templars have an equipment code too, we don't use ninja equipment. (some guys still try but they get shouted at so much at ts that they don't really enjoy it)
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In my opinion, the quickest way to lower the population of archers and left-click spammers is simple:
Raise the team-kill penalty
I swear, if I'm not getting arrows in the back, I'm getting sideswiped by a teammate tin can in a tear/bec frenzy.
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LLJK has an equipment code: use what the fuck you want and kill some pubbie weeaboos
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what's a weeaboo ? :P
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I had to smile when i read your post. Thats exactly what i am feeling every day.
Im only playing Battle if i really need lots of gold fast because you get it a bit easier there.
You can play funny builds on siege without lying in dust the whole time.
I always played battles with my first char never liked sieges but in the last weeks im playing it most of the time.
Tbh its so much easier to work on your manual block if you dont have to wait 2-3 minutes every time you die.
Pro Siege because of:
- more playtime
- more fights
- less cav :p and if there is cav its restricted to some areas where its useful.
Contra Siege:
- I cant see the maps anymore. Please add Siegemaps.
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AFAIK the ninja clan is the only clan still using some form of equipment code for their members.
HRE also has a code, only stuff related to the holy roman empire times
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- I cant see the maps anymore. Please add Siegemaps.
Maybe upcoming patch add some maps. I hope so.
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Eloquently written. It seems to me you prefer the relatively quick respawn of siege.
I prefer the long breaks and intense all or nothing action streaks that battle offers. For me, that's just more exiting. Siege feels too much like a grind.
I love dying early and getting a break. Sometimes, i don't die early and i end up having a bit of a kill streak. Sometimes, i'm the first one rushing in and get promptly put down for my foolish courage.
To each his own. The game is what it is. Make the most out of it. :)
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I think we should just change battle mode to be more like Strategus battles, give each faction a number of tickets (¬1000) and fight it out. Way more fun, and you can see how the battle is turning etc.
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Hmm the problem with doing it more like Strategus is that it would make it very hard for infantry. First goal in every open battle map should be to take out enemy cav so that you can engage in close combat without fearing to be backstabbed by cav. And the archers and throwers would never go out of ammo so the ranged spam never stops. Welcome to Infantry hell...
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I rather think strategus should be more like battle-mode. Series of pitched battles rather than the stream of men they have now.
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We, Roses have a very strict code. We can only use the described armour and weapons.
I have cursed many noob players in max armour who can 1hit me without any skill.
(AKA sniperXbow stormtroopers, seen the quantity and the similarity,(sniperXbow, tears/coockies, lolhammer, fullplate))
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Unrelated shit moved to http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,175.0.html
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That is why I sometimes like siege more then battle but on this mod siege is not balanced at all and could be more frustrating then battle mode.
I would love some tweakings for after patch since exp/gold will be changed maybe it will be like native again were defenders CAN successfully defend a castle not always losing unless the teams are unbalanced.
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How did this turn out to be a "i'm-better-then-you thread"? If everyone could stop making silly assumptions about each others play styles this could actually turn out to be a good thread. Agi-spammer and elephant-nub-rider, use PM's instead, this wannabe E-peen contest is silly.
Now, on to the actual thread: NEVERMIND
I agree with bablefish on most points. I find myself joining Siege oh so more then Battle. Why?
Well, I get to play more or less instantly and "teamwork" if forced (we have a common goal, like it or not, we are going the same way). Somehow Siege is much more relaxed and less spastic then regular Battle. Probably because of the respawn and the way exp/money is counted: I don't have to play my very best just to stay alive, I can still skirmish around and get money without losing out on money and exp. While I do enjoy battle, I feel that modes like siege is necessary and Vital to the game in the long run (hell, being a peasant on a full battle server is awful).
Simply put, Siege doesn't require (read demand) your full attention, and sometimes that's all you want (you know, for the game to be a game and not just a chore you do to gain money).
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All highlevel, highend gear chars rape. Some more the others, and some really do offer easier gameplay than others. Some are outrageously stupid (Finished and his panzerhorse, all highlevel archers, 10+ PT people), some only really stupid (lolstab of doom abusers).
And everyone thinks his stuff/build is not a problem, but the other guy's stuff/build is, so thomek will say 30+ agi chars (with 18 str to boot and heirloomed weapons) are fine, archers as a matter of course think nothing is broken about archery, horsemen "need" their panzerhorses because, imagine, unarmoured ones die easy, etc.... and tbh, none of it IS fine, imo.
Btw, playing as a highlevel is really easy. I'm not some expert manual blocker - but eg. with the last iteration of my polearmer - using a heirloomed long voulge (which is a 83 speed unbalanced weapon with 39c and 20p stab, but on the upside very long and breaks shields) and I remember at times killing crowds of people (mainly playing on siege, although I did have a 2:1 K/D on battle too) by just backpedal-spamming at level 27 when I had 17/18 stats. It was easy to play, period - even without tincan armour (with heraldric mail and stuff, you have the armour rating equal to a ninja with lamellar and scale gloves, except you have a helm and slightly more wpf penalty).
While I love the overall character customization part of CRPG, the "power level infinity plus one" stuff which we have now (which is btw not THAT much a function of gear, largely of levels actually) is honestly fairly shitty. How does this tie into siege v battle? Easy. When you die in siege to some automatic railgun archer or 0 wpf tincan crossbowman or onehitted by spam / hammers / whatever - which is what often happens to people who're not yet level xyz with "uber" equipment, you get to respawn and fight again, and you get rewards anyway.
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True, sieges are fantastic for peasants, at least those on the attacker side. :)
My two cents - too many archers. That about sums it up.
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Eloquently written. It seems to me you prefer the relatively quick respawn of siege.
I prefer the long breaks and intense all or nothing action streaks that battle offers. For me, that's just more exiting. Siege feels too much like a grind.
I love dying early and getting a break. Sometimes, i don't die early and i end up having a bit of a kill streak. Sometimes, i'm the first one rushing in and get promptly put down for my foolish courage.
To each his own. The game is what it is. Make the most out of it. :)
That's why i love playing siege in defense. Limited lives should make you smarter
Should.
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I agree with your sentiments though I don't think siege is really the answer to the problem, hopefully the patch is.
I agree with you that the addition of new weapons is horrendous at the moment. The real problem with adding new weapons is that people seem to think they should be better than native weapons.
Why use the native swords when you can get tears, cookies or spamberger?
Why use glaives and spears when they have these hideous halberds and spammable yet long and deadly new polearms?
I miss the medieval feel from native mount and blade. It is sad that cRPG decided to base itself on Late period weapons and armor.
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:twisted:
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someone is asking for a mute.
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Eloquently written. It seems to me you prefer the relatively quick respawn of siege.
I prefer the long breaks and intense all or nothing action streaks that battle offers. For me, that's just more exiting. Siege feels too much like a grind.
I love dying early and getting a break. Sometimes, i don't die early and i end up having a bit of a kill streak. Sometimes, i'm the first one rushing in and get promptly put down for my foolish courage.
To each his own. The game is what it is. Make the most out of it. :)
This. I prefer battle and based upon the fact that NA battle has a greater population than NA siege 95% of the time, I also disagree with the entire premise of the OP. :o
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someone is asking for a mute.
Gaunt?
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Why I play siege over battle ?
Because of cavalry, playing on battle is so frustrating when you're using light armor, it's either 1) get teamattacked to death by your teammate in melee and wait 2/3 of the time dead or when you stay away from the main clusterfuck not to get teamdamaged by some spamming retards you will always get ganked and bumped to death by some greedy cav.
The number of cav on EU1 has reached a point where it's just impossible to have a proper fight as infantery. I remember when I started playing cRPG last year this was not the case and there were actually some teamplay going on on battle server.
I used to think cRPG balance was better than native but these days I'm thinking the exact opposite.
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Because factions like Abuse Order literally "farming" siege make it fun for an outsider..
Please..
PS: this thread necromancy is getting old.
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Siege.
Think.. Siege.
8-)
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Siege had the biggest playerbase for the simple reason that it's the most close to the TDM system. You can ignore flags and objectives, and simply by going berserk killing the enemies you will contribute to the team.
In siege you don't have to be afraid of getting killed in a early stage of a round, having to spectate the rest of the time, aka no effective play time.
You don't have to worry that much about ranged, cause you end up re spawning anyway.
Getting 1 hit killed on the back or even from the front by a Cav player it's something that won't happen, and if it does, it's your fault for sure (the opposite from Battle)
The only problem is the lack of supervision which will be addressed in the future. Meanwhile we just have to carry on reporting on the forums, sadly.
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Seriously, get rid of cav or nerf horses. It's ridiculous. I hate playing battle because of them. If it's not 5 horses running at me from behind, it's my own teammates knocking me down and giving the enemy free shots.
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Seriously get rid of archers. If it's not 5 of them shooting me at once while I'm in the middle of fighting it's teammates shooting me in the back.
Actually get rid of all weapons, they can be used to kill me and I don't like dying.
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Ishar lol, he used to post a lot.
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The only change that has been made to the game that I really haven't liked has been the early weapons activation that was implemented. It has turned combat into a wiffle bat fight far too often, and it feels like it has made chambering a cake walk. Fighting on hills with a long pole arm is completely shit hammered. Fighting using over heads with people running around behind you is completely retarded. Over heading while being parallel to a wall, shit hammered.
One other thing I disagree with is the Long volouge nerf, previously it was a cheap Bardiche, now its a cheap Swiss Halberd... BUT! And its a huge but, its slow as hell, its poke is shit and its unbalanced the result is that its a turd sandwich.
Long Voulge
weapon length: 175
weight: 3.5
difficulty: 17
speed rating: 85
weapon length: 175
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 37 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield
Can't sheath
Swiss Halberd
weapon length: 162
weight: 3.2
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 91
weapon length: 162
thrust damage: 28 pierce
swing damage: 37 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield
Can't sheath
The funny thing is given that over head constantly get arse fucked by the early active sing poop the bamboo spear is the real alt to the LV, it doesn't have shield break but it does have good damage on its thrust (which won't get wiffed every other bloody swing, or stuck on the ground) and its 5 points faster :/
But yeah, primary rage as far as patches and attempts at fixing shit, the Early Active Swing has IMO not been a great one. I just think it needs to be tinkered with and have less of an effect on over heads.
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I have to disagree with the overpowered armor/weapons argument. You can always find a way to kill someone, even with the worst of gear. Either that or I've chosen the cheapest, deadliest, most overpowered weapon in the game when it can defeat weapons 10-15x it's price (pickaxe).
I guess it's easy to blame your death on a weapon or the superior armor of an opponent, and I have caught myself cursing people wearing gothic plate and 1 hit killing me with a bec, but in the end where there is a will, there is a way. If frugfrug can get a positive ratio with rocks, then anything is possible!
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I agree with above post.And proud of it.
Wrong
see below
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Somebody lock this thread.
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Crying about cav is silly. It's very easy to be safe from cavalry and even pose a threat. The heaviest horses are the only thing I actually fear to some extent.
I mean, seriously, I'm 1h + shield with a under 100 length sword. If someone tries to couch me I've slowly started to learn it's pretty damn easy to just dodge the couch and stab them in the face if they aren't actually good with their couching. Same goes for non-polearm cavalry trying to slash instead of stabbing. Good timing and positioning can usually lead to a surprise kill. Lancers that aren't couching can pose an actual threat I can't deal with that well, but occasionally they play dumb too and dehorsing them is pretty trivial.
Even if you don't trust your skills or use a pick or mace or something it's very easy to avoid dying to a horseman (fast at least). Only the heaviest horses actually hurt you when they trample you, so just jump under the horse if you can't figure out any better option as opposed to getting hit by a weapon.
...and I'm not claiming I am perfectly safe against cav, but I feel like I have enough chance to fight back that it's fun. Especially since most cav players don't expect to lose a horse or their life to one shielder hit while they're just charging without anything stopping them :D
Cavalry is the most dangerous when you're fighting in an open area against an another infantry. That's when you need superb awareness or well... teamwork. Cavalry is ludicrously good when you have 60 enemies majority of whom don't seem to have any awareness or teamwork. Cavalry is ludicrously bad when you have 60 enemies with superb awareness and teamwork.
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Disclaimer: This post may contain biased views!
Back in march 2010, when i started this game (on the 22nd server) i was completely drawn in by the magic. The big fields with two opposing armies facing off in fight of biblical proportions. Most people were decked in misc gear and there were almost zero knights, horses were rare, few snipers (1-2), some range and a massive amount of melee players. There were debates about the best skill-route, armors, players etc.
Then drama ensued and cRPG changed,
Now instead of the 222 slot server the 22nd clan provided, we had a small 60 slot server ( got upgraded fast tho). Maps changed from open fields to more infantry friendly. Gold & experience gain was slow, and there was a soft-cap to level. Some started to power-level and in a few days/weeks more knights emerged. Medium armor became the norm. The game was still awesome fun, and there was a much larger quantity of melee players as opposed to ranged & cavalry. People were still unsure about the class-routes as there was quite a bit of math behind it all.
Then some shitkid decided to ddos cRPG, which resulted in a database-wipe.
chadz improved much in cRPG, but the players had gone from casuals to power-gamers. Ill admit i was once counted among them, playing for hours upon hours, caught in the mindless hunt for the next level and new armor.
Now everyone was looking to maximize their exp & gold gain. After a few days some people had heavy armor (which had earlier been reserved for a few dedicated gamers, among them BNCshrek, the first to reach black-armor). A week passed, and just like that, heavy armor was now the norm. But it did not stop there; horses, xbows and archers emerged in massive numbers.
Now a few months laters, there are hardly any people not following one of the cookie-cutter builds. Maps has changed to cater for increasing population of cavalry & range. It has been days, if not weeks since i last played a battle on a map that favored infantry.
Q: What does the above text have to do with the current siege phenomena?
Nothing and everything.
You see, in this gaming era everyone feels entitled to be the hero. No one will settle for the side-kick. In the start people were more relaxed towards this game, but as it became more and more popular, the min-maxing started. Now we have a influx of range & mounted players, in addition to the tin-cans. You can no longer play the game as you see fit, if you intend to make a name for yourself (there are of-course exceptions to every rule). Even skilled Mount & blade vets are using the most overpowered armors and weapons, even in duels. After some of the custom made weapon & armors made it into this mod, the old weapons have seen little to no use. Tears are a perfect example of this; It got range, speed and damage, why would anyone use anything else? AFAIK the ninja clan is the only clan still using some form of equipment code for their members. Im happy with my choice of being a ninja, but sometimes, when i lose to worse players because everyone else is using the most ridiculous weapons & armors, i get frustrated.
Thrown into this mix of crazed power-gamers are the casuals and the people refusing to play the min-max game. After dying repeatably to projectiles and horse-bumps for months now, i think people have finally found a sanctuary, still somewhat untouched by the taint thats plaguing the rest of the game. Its so relaxing not to be forced to spin 360 degrees all the time, to look for incoming cavs in additional to dodging arrows. And even if you get shot to pieces, you only have to wait a maximum of 30 seconds before you are up and running again.
I have no clue what future lays ahead of cRPG..
Only chadz and a handful of people really have a clue on how the future cRPG will look like. I doubt the players mentality will change for the better, min-maxing is here to stay. However steps can be taken to ensure a fair and fun game for everyone.
No