cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: avmana on January 17, 2011, 04:18:40 am
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Please make the barmace heavier/slower. Its ridiculous and unblockable with overhead swings crushing through every time :mad:
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The barmace is short. Use a longer weapon, the stab ability, or a ranged weapon to ward off the overhead smash. Polearms should have zero trouble with this, one-handers can stab (except picks, maces), and most comparable 2H are longer. Also, overhead smashes are easier to dodge.
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The barmace also doesn't really crush that often, unless the opposing weapon is very light or the user has a lot of powerstrike and strength. That means they have little agility.
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The barmace is short. Use a longer weapon, the stab ability, or a ranged weapon to ward off the overhead smash. Polearms should have zero trouble with this, one-handers can stab (except picks, maces), and most comparable 2H are longer. Also, overhead smashes are easier to dodge.
The bar mace isn't THAT short. Certainly a polearm or longish 2H can get a swing (or maybe even two) in before the bar mace user is in range, but it's not difficult to block a single strike (plus a single strike won't kill someone). Unless you're a ninja (or other suitably fast build) you won't be able to run backwards fast enough to continually back-pedal and swing out of their range.
The issue is that the bar mace is too fast for a crush-through weapon - hell, it's faster than most of the high-tier polearms! An overhead from a Great Maul is easy enough to spot and swing at so that the Maul user is hit and their strike interrupted - the bar mace, on the other hand, has a faster overhead animation than many 2H and polearm weapons (so there's no way in hell you could get a swing in after having spotted it). Again, unless you've got very high athletics, you can't backpedal quickly after spotting the overhead, and strafing does nothing (I've seen many people killed by a 'loloverhead' where the bar mace user does an overhead and spins around, killing whoever is near them with the final moments of the animation).
Also, this is coming from a bar mace user (granted, my level 22 bar mace character is nowhere near as awesome as the other bar mace guy on our - the Australian - server).
Edit: Braeden, the guy on the Aus server that crushes through frequently has 24 strength and 15 agility. Certainly other builds have a little more agi (18 or even 21), but 3 agi isn't enough to say "I'm so much faster than him that he'll never get a hit in!". It's got frigging 93 speed, so 15 agi + 93 speed will often hit you (even if it's a little less frequently than you hit them), plus it does enough damage that many are out of the fight after 1 or 2 hits.
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The bar mace isn't THAT short. Certainly a polearm or longish 2H can get a swing (or maybe even two) in before the bar mace user is in range, but it's not difficult to block a single strike (plus a single strike won't kill someone). Unless you're a ninja (or other suitably fast build) you won't be able to run backwards fast enough to continually back-pedal and swing out of their range.
The issue is that the bar mace is too fast for a crush-through weapon - hell, it's faster than most of the high-tier polearms! An overhead from a Great Maul is easy enough to spot and swing at so that the Maul user is hit and their strike interrupted - the bar mace, on the other hand, has a faster overhead animation than many 2H and polearm weapons (so there's no way in hell you could get a swing in after having spotted it). Again, unless you've got very high athletics, you can't backpedal quickly after spotting the overhead, and strafing does nothing (I've seen many people killed by a 'loloverhead' where the bar mace user does an overhead and spins around, killing whoever is near them with the final moments of the animation).
Also, this is coming from a bar mace user (granted, my level 22 bar mace character is nowhere near as awesome as the other bar mace guy on our - the Australian - server).
Edit: Braeden, the guy on the Aus server that crushes through frequently has 24 strength and 15 agility. Certainly other builds have a little more agi (18 or even 21), but 3 agi isn't enough to say "I'm so much faster than him that he'll never get a hit in!". It's got frigging 93 speed, so 15 agi + 93 speed will often hit you (even if it's a little less frequently than you hit them), plus it does enough damage that many are out of the fight after 1 or 2 hits.
Once you get in your one or two swings, you've either hit and interrupted the overhead or forced the person to block. It's a fine counter. Length vs. speed is an essential tradeoff in the game; longer weapons get the first swing, but their users had better time it right. Also, crushthrough is determined by a formula that includes momentum and how long you hold the mace above your head, so you can't spam it without retreating first.
I agree that crushthrough is annoying. Blunt weapons already have a nice specialty with knockdown, so I wouldn't care if crushthrough was eliminated. I don't think it's a good excuse to nerf the whole weapon, though.
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I agree that crushthrough is annoying. Blunt weapons already have a nice specialty with knockdown, so I wouldn't care if crushthrough was eliminated. I don't think it's a good excuse to nerf the whole weapon, though.
I'm fine with weapons having crushthrough, if their speed reflects it. The problem is that some of these weapons capable of crushthrough (which presumably must be reasonably heavy to do this) are as fast as non-crushthrough weapons. I just don't think it's right to have a weapon capable of crushthrough that swings as fast as a considerably lighter weapon which is incapable of crushthrough. I know the mod isn't about realism, but even from a balance perspective, it seems wrong to let something be significantly heavier than something, yet just as fast.
I say, make the speed and crushthrough reflect the weapons weight (more so, weight and weight distribution). When weight is distributed toward the end, the weapon will impart greater energy (hence force) on the target. Just think of using a hammer; if you hold it by the head it swings fast but doesn't hit very hard; if you hold it by the handle it swings slower but hits much harder. For an in game example, the Long Iron Mace has much of its weight distributed at the top end, meaning it will have more energy on target (due to having a higher moment of inertia) than a bar mace (despite the same mass), but will require more energy to be put into the swing (hence, less speed, generally). So, from a realism perspective, the LIM should crushthrough, but be slow, while the bar mace would not crushthrough (or at least, much less than the LIM) but be a fast blunt weapon. But, again, this mod isn't about realism. Still, I'd be happy with a fast, high blunt damage weapon that doesn't crushthrough (especially if the gave it a blunt stab too).
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Maybe there are some misunderstanding. I have 2h char with 18str, barmace is my favourite weapon, it rarely crushtrhoug but 1hit kill quite often, due low armor and no IF invested, still people scream nerf in chat as they think they where killed due crushtrhoug.
To have guarantede crushtrhoug I've made char with 24str and 15agi, it's very slow, you need to be skilled to play such char effectively, so I don't think that nerfing weapon just because some of the players are good in using them is a valid approach.
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Crush Through should just be removed from CRPG or at the very least, impose more negatives to the weapons in question. This ability is particularly inappropriate in a module that allows free-form character growth. Shield users have 2 counters including Bonus to Shield damage where only 1 counter is enough. Shield users are gimped enough as it is.
Where are the 1-handed crush through weapons?
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I have 20 str and 6 PS and I don't crush-through often with the barmace (feels like 20% crush chance). You need at least 8 PS for crushing with the barmace (even 7 seems like a gamble) and someone with 8+ PS will have low agility and therefore his attacks are slow and easy to avoid.
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I think the top complaint with the barmace is its crushthrough but what some people don't seem to know is that it does not crush through sideswings. So the only attack that does crushthrough is the overhead, which is slower and harder to aim. The best way to defeat someone with a barmace is to a) Keep your distance ( they are most probably slow) b) If you have good reactions try to slash whenever they try to pull off an overhead c) Get ranged to take them out.
Warband is a game of scissor/paper/rock in some senses, if you have a 1h or a weapon that will get crushed through alot then don't expect to beat them, instead retreat and let your team fire upon them or try to get someone to help you take them out.
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bar mace is slow, only crushes on overhead(and not always, need to have enemy in sweetspot where mace basically completes its swing(i.e. not facehug), I mean even though the polearm maces don't have crushthrough(asides from long great maul or whatever) most are better than bar mace, one has 34b, 95 speed and like 135 range, that one kills everyone and has knockdown, its like a bigger better bar mace minus the crushthrough
basically once the whining ends 2h will just be a weaker form of polearm without wpf usable shields and horse rear and shorter less damage axes/maces and our best weapons (2h swords) will be usable by polearm guys, oh wait it already is
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It's really annoying though, when you ~try~ to block one of those overhead attacks with your shield, which is worth thousands of gold, and the shield doesn't even break, but they still get through and profit a one swing kill. All your hp and all your shield's hp and all your armor, are at that point essentially worthless.
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The barmace also doesn't really crush that often, unless the opposing weapon is very light or the user has a lot of powerstrike and strength. That means they have little agility.
I seem to get crush throughs every time with it, with a balanced build.
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Personally I think crushthrough in crpg makes no sense. I assume that the way these weapons worked in real life was because they were very heavy. Which meant that they were slow and after a few swings the person using the weapon was tired out and ready for a nap.
In crpg there is no stamina bar and all the crushthrough weapons in Crpg are too fast for the bonuses they give.
All a competant person playing Crpg with a barmace has to do to get a great K:D is to play in this way:
1.) Approach an opponent
2.) Block the first strike from opponent
3.) Retaliate by an overhead swing
4.) Repeat as necessary.
Just take out crushthrough from the game, otherwise soon we will have a new plauge on our hands : The Crushthrough revolution.
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Personally I think crushthrough in crpg makes no sense. I assume that the way these weapons worked in real life was because they were very heavy. Which meant that they were slow and after a few swings the person using the weapon was tired out and ready for a nap.
In crpg there is no stamina bar and all the crushthrough weapons in Crpg are too fast for the bonuses they give.
All a competant person playing Crpg with a barmace has to do to get a great K:D is to play in this way:
1.) Approach an opponent
2.) Block the first strike from opponent
3.) Retaliate by an overhead swing
4.) Repeat as necessary.
Just take out crushthrough from the game, otherwise soon we will have a new plauge on our hands : The Crushthrough revolution.
Between 2) and 3) anyone who isn't using a strenght build himself can hit you and break your swing. Overhead is slow and needs a lot of strenght to be effective.
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Between 2) and 3) anyone who isn't using a strenght build himself can hit you and break your swing. Overhead is slow and needs a lot of strenght to be effective.
That is not accurate, especially if the Str build concentrates on blocking first then counterattacking:
STR Build
21/15
IF 7
PS 7
WPF 149
vs
AGility Build
12/24
IF 4
PS 4
WPF 173
The Extra 24 wpf will not let the agility guy hit you again after his attack turn is over and yours is about to begin. The only thing he can do is try moving or jumping out of the way. If he does that he will forefit his attack phase letting you attack with overhead again. In this way in 2 to 3 overhead strikes you can chase an agility guy into the grave as long as you keep your head straight and follow him quickly.
Like I said crushthrough in the way Crpg is now makes no sense at all. The mechanics of the game simply favour this style of play too much.
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I don't have a problem with the barmace by its stats. OK, a bit long, a bit powerful, but in a duel, I can handle it no problem because of its speed.
The problem is, it looks too much like a 2H sword (like a cleaver for example). I often find myself in a somewhat larger battle, blocking, hitting back, etc. And then comes a bar mace, and I press block, just like against all the other swordsmen, and BANG crushthrough.
I don't think there's anything that could be done with it or something. Guess I just jumped on the whinewagon for a ride.
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Rock, Paper, Scissor.
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Rock, Paper, Scissor.
Pudding, Chair, Newspaper.
That means nothing too.
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Like I said crushthrough in the way Crpg is now makes no sense at all. The mechanics of the game simply favour this style of play too much.
I completely agree. There is simply no reason to grant the ability to completely bypass defenses. 1H users have no such access to weapons that will bypass the manual block so why are 2h/pole arm wielders given the ability to render shields useless? Just stack some heavy armor along with your lolhammer and you're golden.
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Which is kind of what interests me, too - is the barmace build really spamable by a build that it blockcrushes? It's 23 points faster than hammer and if the 21/15 build blockcrushes me with 15/21 I don't know if that's enough to retaliate (the option to stay out of reach often does not exist, in entrances for example, where the hammer users have been lurking since this game was made). It would nice to test the actual results.
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All a competant person playing Crpg with a barmace has to do to get a great K:D is to play in this way:
1.) Approach an opponent
2.) Block the first strike from opponent
3.) Retaliate by an overhead swing
4.) Repeat as necessary.
Except when this person does 3., you dodge while slashing him. If he repeats, you repeat. Win.
The Extra 24 wpf will not let the agility guy hit you again after his attack turn is over and yours is about to begin. The only thing he can do is try moving or jumping out of the way. If he does that he will forefit his attack phase letting you attack with overhead again. In this way in 2 to 3 overhead strikes you can chase an agility guy into the grave as long as you keep your head straight and follow him quickly.
Except you can attack while moving/jumping. Also you forgot that the agi build has Athletics at 6-8 which is pretty much enough to win just by clever footwork. If for some reason a player is not skilled enough to face such opponent, then again Athletics comes into play and you can get the fuck out and get some help from teammates.
Any valid arguments?
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Pudding, Chair, Newspaper.
That means nothing too.
Quite the opposite: pudding is yummy, chairs are comfy and newspapers tend to have pretty interesting stuff in them. Your analogy expresses how fun the mod is.
Also I cannot understand why people are so upset over getting a little hard time playing a computer game: 'you win some, loose some it's all the same to me' as a great poet once sang. [A♠]
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Also, crushthrough is determined by a formula that includes momentum and how long you hold the mace above your head, so you can't spam it without retreating first.
Is this true? If so that would stomp on any pure overhead spam.
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I seem to get crush throughs every time with it, with a balanced build.
and I crush through so rarely that in the end I come back to the great maul when I want some lolcrush. And I have 24 str and 8 ps :|
I feel taht the bar mace is just a short 2handed with good blunt damage with the addition of an occasional crushthrough, nothing special, nothing overpowered
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Momentum definitely counts, and as far as I know, holding it for a second or so helps too. Holding it for longer won't add more bonus though.
Still, an str build has the crushthrough effect without these bonus factors, with pure overhead spam, sooo... basically, they don't matter that much. Facehugging helps against it by the way. A lot.
I feel taht the bar mace is just a short 2handed with good blunt damage with the addition of an occasional crushthrough, nothing special, nothing overpowered
That's exactly my problem. It's too much like a regular 2H sword - and the crushthrough comes as a surprise sometimes.
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People in this topic who are defending the bar mace clearly have no idea how nasty it is.
We have a guy with 24 Str and he CRUSHES EVERY SINGLE BLOW. Huscarl shields are like butter to this guy's character and bar mace.
His unbeatable. His speed 93 barmace out-swings all good polearms and the thing is not short. Granted if it was 65 length then OK you have a decent chance to fight back.
But in the usual you hit first, he blocks, he then hits back.... err... what do you do, block? I don't think so. Backpeddle? His bar mace is far too long to manage to get away - unless your a 25 agi ninja, so what do you do?
You die.
It's a Great Maul with more range and speed. It's insane.
Great Maul's are nasty too but at least you have a slight chance to win if you have a 99 speed 1h or have a longish 2h weapon. Not possible to fight a competent person with a bar mace (and high PS).
Anyone that says otherwise clearly has little experience with fighting a high str char that uses a bar mace and should not reply
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Danath, I think I found an inspirational video that will solve your problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfg5d2w0Iao
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Danath the best way to find weaknesses for something is to try it out, I suggest you go make a barmacer and see how easily you will get smashed by any 2her/polearmer that has the least amount of skill.
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Sure I could go buy a bar mace for my zero 2H WPP char with 6 PS and crush through nothing and swing like a turtle, and get killed in the process. Sure, I could do that.
Clearly its a terrible test or example. Someone with 150 WPP and 8 PS will pwn everyone. His a good player too, but still killable, but with the barmace, his unblockable.
Unblockable fast good-range weapon. Think about that for a minute. Theres no cramming in 2 swings for his 1. You swing first with your long weapon, he blocks, he swings at you, you get stunned and damaged, then you block again (as you cant immediately swing back when stunned obviously), or try to, you get stunned and damaged again, and you die.
I just run like a little bitch now when I see him screaming at team mates to come kill him LOL :lol:
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with 15 agi he can't have 150 wpf :rolleyes: I was suggesting maybe make a new char if you're determined to beat this guy though, it only takes a couple of hours to reach lvl 20.
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Same as AGI build with great maul. Nerf both.
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Hm I think nerf the chance of its crushthrough , not remove it completely and change the barmace's price to something like 10kish.
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Price will do nothing. If I'm kicking ass with a weapon I'm not going to stop using it because of 500 upkeep versus 250. The crush through chance needs to drop for higher PS users so others can block and "hope" it works instead of never working and dying. Don't care about bar mace if you have 5 PS. It's when you are a high str that the thing becomes an unstoppable killing machine (literally unstoppable lol)
Have no idea what his WPP is now, was 150 or something. I imagine its as high as it can possibly be. Definitely past 100 that's for sure.
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Sword is a farsight easier to use than the barmace, I really urge you to somehow try out the barmace and see for yourself.
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The barmace itself is fine I think. It's fairly slow and only rarely will it crush through...
However, the heirloomed barmace is something else entirely. It crushes through far more often and in competent hands is almost unbeatable with conventional melee weapons one on one. I suspect the people in this thread who have been saying it rarely crushes through have not faced this variant very often, but it has absolutely dominated the server I play on for several days now.
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Heirloomed barmace loses speed :wink: Also it would take incredible amounts of time to get to the fully heirloomed barmace.
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Not so much speed that would allow me to get in a hit when it is their turn to swing if they use an overhead, so the loss in speed is almost irrelevant.
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So you're suggesting maybe instead of gaining weight after heirlooms maybe gaining speed or maybe just damage.
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That is not accurate, especially if the Str build concentrates on blocking first then counterattacking:
STR Build
21/15
IF 7
PS 7
WPF 149
vs
AGility Build
12/24
IF 4
PS 4
WPF 173
The Extra 24 wpf will not let the agility guy hit you again after his attack turn is over and yours is about to begin. The only thing he can do is try moving or jumping out of the way. If he does that he will forefit his attack phase letting you attack with overhead again. In this way in 2 to 3 overhead strikes you can chase an agility guy into the grave as long as you keep your head straight and follow him quickly.
Like I said crushthrough in the way Crpg is now makes no sense at all. The mechanics of the game simply favour this style of play too much.
I agree. There's also throwing, which is a bit too popular, but there are plenty of other threads for that.
But to the point, I've been killed by the bar mace's overhead blockcrush a few too many times.
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Maybe there are some misunderstanding. I have 2h char with 18str, barmace is my favourite weapon, it rarely crushtrhoug but 1hit kill quite often, due low armor and no IF invested, still people scream nerf in chat as they think they where killed due crushtrhoug.
To have guarantede crushtrhoug I've made char with 24str and 15agi, it's very slow, you need to be skilled to play such char effectively, so I don't think that nerfing weapon just because some of the players are good in using them is a valid approach.
I think it should be nerfed until you can type crush through correctly.
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slothscott, are you Octopussy? Same armour and banner and you use a bar mace.
Also it would take incredible amounts of time to get to the fully heirloomed barmace.
I was under the impression that the latest patch was meant to remove most of the ridiculously good rewards for no-life grinding. Just because something takes ages to get, doesn't make it fair for the other players who get owned by it.
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If you read above I was all for changing the stats of heirloomed barmace so that crushthrough chance is not increased.
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Every "class" in cRPG has its strong environments and its weak environments. The bar mace is scary against the athletically slow, slow attackers, and the heavily armoured. The bar mace is weak against the fast, fast attackers, and projectile-based classes. As a lightly armoured 1h user I find them formidable but not too frightening on the whole. I'm fast enough that I can dodge most overhead swings and I almost never get crushthrough-ed on side to side swings. In my favour I have my comparatively high weapon speed, athletics, and little worry for enemy archers (who either hit my shield or don't aim at us at all) while the bar mace warrior must avoid oncoming projectiles. Right now I'm a fair[ish] match for Wallace in his post-retirement form.
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Diomedes you have no idea.
It's clear to me now. Regular bar mace = OK.
Heirloomed bar mace = Not OK.
I realized now Octo uses a Heavy Bar Mace, meaning its heirloomed. The thing just destroys everyone because its fast enough, long enough, and unblockable. There is no magical jump out of the way or hit twice and all the other stupid crap people are making up in this thread lol.
You either:
a. Run
b. Try to run circles around him spamming with a quick 1h weapon and pray it works
c. Swing with your longer polearm / 2h and back peddle, repeat, maybe 2 times at most, until his caught up and you are dead. Try jumping sideways and shit now lol
I dont mind it having more damage and speed, its the crush through rate that's pwning everyone. Its unblockable.
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You're pretty much wrong with these wonderbarmace stories. I have a 30str/10ps character and i fail to crush through alot of times (non heirloomed barmace). It's also really slow and short, vs a barmace guy i just use my sword, dodge the first attack and swing, usually works. I've seen some players always crush through but they have 3 agi builds and heirloomed barmaces. Their character can't do anything else and is even slower.
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You're pretty much wrong with these wonderbarmace stories. I have a 30str/10ps character and i fail to crush through alot of times (non heirloomed barmace). It's also really slow and short, vs a barmace guy i just use my sword, dodge the first attack and swing, usually works. I've seen some players always crush through but they have 3 agi builds and heirloomed barmaces. Their character can't do anything else and is even slower.
And if he BLOCKS ?
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I've never had a barmace crush through my blocks, i use mostly a pike with 6 powerstrike and it never crushes through.
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I've never had a barmace crush through my blocks, i use mostly a pike with 6 powerstrike and it never crushes through.
Come play on the Australian server for a bit. The issue, as has been stated, is the heirloomed barmace.
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Barmace is one of the few effectice choices for the pute str build. Great maul is the slowrst thing in the world. Boulder lightened but madr slower and morningstar has lossed its ability to crush altogether. Anyone thats watching will block ur side swings and aslong as youve got over 120 wpf in ur wep u can out speed preety much any of these weps. The bar mace is fine just suck it up.
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Barmace is one of the few effectice choices for the pute str build. Great maul is the slowrst thing in the world. Boulder lightened but madr slower and morningstar has lossed its ability to crush altogether. Anyone thats watching will block ur side swings and aslong as youve got over 120 wpf in ur wep u can out speed preety much any of these weps. The bar mace is fine just suck it up.
Barmace is broken, suck it up.
You can really strike two times against it in a row, so barmace user kill opponent after first block.
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With my huscarl shield I've never been able to block an overhead attack from BRD Linden's bar mace. Maybe once, but no more. I also think it should have the crush through taken away. That it does scary blunt damage with good speed and reach (for blunt) makes it an excellent weapon for 2H-users to use against heavy armor. That is its role. Crushing through shields should be saved for the great hammer, which is balanced just fine.
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aslong as youve got over 120 wpf in ur wep u can out speed preety much any of these weps
I still don't get why people think this is the case. As we (Australians) have said, we've got one guy on our server who has 24 str and 15 agi with an heirloomed barmace. The bar mace has 93 speed, so with 15 agi you can have 149 WPF (assuming they use WM). Certainly it isn't lightning fast, but it's definitely fast enough that you can't swing while they are doing an overhead.
I think one of the main issues is that this guy was always an amazing player: probably one of the best duellists on the server. That's the problem; he can block a bloody swing! (something most posters here seem to think is impossible in this game :rolleyes: ) The heirloomed barmace doesn't crushthrough on every overhead (maybe 20-50% or so when the victim has a reasonably weighty weapon); but this guy has absolutely no problem blocking 1 or 2 (or even 4 or 5 swings) before he gets a crushthrough - hell, what half decent cRPG player doesn't have a problem blocking a few swings?? So, while he blocks our swings and we block his overheads, it's fair (close to same speed, we've got a little longer range, he's got knockdown and high damage); the problem is that after a few overheads, it's goes from a skilful duel to him smashing through our block and killing us. Essentially, we have to hope that his defence fails on our first two or three swings (not that 2 or 3 swings could kill him...), otherwise we've lost.
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The bar mace has 93 speed, so with 15 agi you can have 149 WPF (assuming they use WM).
An heirloomed barmace will have less than that old patch and even now I think barmace lost 1 speed so its impossible to have 93 speed.
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I still don't get why people think this is the case. As we (Australians) have said, we've got one guy on our server who has 24 str and 15 agi with an heirloomed barmace. The bar mace has 93 speed, so with 15 agi you can have 149 WPF (assuming they use WM). Certainly it isn't lightning fast, but it's definitely fast enough that you can't swing while they are doing an overhead.
I think one of the main issues is that this guy was always an amazing player: probably one of the best duellists on the server. That's the problem; he can block a bloody swing! (something most posters here seem to think is impossible in this game :rolleyes: ) The heirloomed barmace doesn't crushthrough on every overhead (maybe 20-50% or so when the victim has a reasonably weighty weapon); but this guy has absolutely no problem blocking 1 or 2 (or even 4 or 5 swings) before he gets a crushthrough - hell, what half decent cRPG player doesn't have a problem blocking a few swings?? So, while he blocks our swings and we block his overheads, it's fair (close to same speed, we've got a little longer range, he's got knockdown and high damage); the problem is that after a few overheads, it's goes from a skilful duel to him smashing through our block and killing us. Essentially, we have to hope that his defence fails on our first two or three swings (not that 2 or 3 swings could kill him...), otherwise we've lost.
Mob him with throwers armed with throwing lances and boulders on a stick. Duel that... :twisted:
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An heirloomed barmace will have less than that old patch and even now I think barmace lost 1 speed so its impossible to have 93 speed.
Yeah, sorry, forgot that the heirloom takes off 1 speed. Still, 92 speed isn't exactly slow. Hell, poleaxes are slower than that!
Mob him with throwers armed with throwing lances and boulders on a stick. Duel that... :twisted:
We have a small server, so the type of people on seems to come in waves. Often it's mostly 2H/polearms on, other times there's lots of archers and/or throwers (I hate those times...). But yeah, whenever throwers are on they'll try to go for him. Usually the way to take him down is to mob him or sneak up on him. That's fine, except his team mates will follow him around, so it's not easy to mob him at all.
Ultimately, it shouldn't take a whole team of 12 or so to collaborate in order to take him down. Then again, this has to happen to take down a few other players as well (namely guys with heirloomed shields and spammitars).
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Just because a server doesn't have the players to counter something doesn't mean it needs nerfing. If you hate it so much then make an archer/thrower/xbow.
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Mob him with throwers armed with throwing lances and boulders on a stick. Duel that... :twisted:
I think that melee builds should have good chance to fight against each other 1vs1. If it's not the case, something is unbalanced. It's same thing as horse archer or cavalry who required teamwork to put down. It's overpowered.
Main problem lies in crush mechanic, it's broken. I would love to see proper crushing in the game, but until someone code it, we are left with imbalanced like fuck mechanic that is not suitable for this mod. Sucks but true.
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crusher is a powerful dedicated char much like HA. but unlike HA a crusher is extremely counterable in many ways.
I agree that if anything needs change is the way block crush works, its kind of stupid mechanics (ie. doesn't factor shield skill/shield armour)
but I feel most the complainers here are shield users saying the following:
dear devs,
nerf rock
paper is fine tho
Regards, scissors.
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but I feel most the complainers here are shield users saying the following:
dear devs,
nerf rock
paper is fine tho
Regards, scissors.
Yes pree
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I know the problem!
On the AU server you need to downblock to stop barmace crushthrough, guys. If you don't reverse it, it won't work, because your server is upside down there. The cRPG base code was made for the Northern Hemisphere, so it works different than you'd expect.
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oh no guys bar mace totally op D: D: D:
Option 1. Just dodge it, for the love of god, take advantage of his slow speed + low range. If you have any footwork the barmace spammers are almost free kills.
Option 2. Or if you want to gamble and be fancy: As soon as you see him trying to overhead you, Jump and overhead chamber it, and kill him. If it works for me and I am clearly some awful player in comparison to you guys, it will work better for you. Right?
Quick explanation for those who don't know: Crushthrough weapons CAN crush through chamber blocks. However, if you jump and prepare your overhead swing after he starts his, you catch his attack earlier in the animation while it is traveling at a lower speed, so it will not crush through. Since you are so close proximity to the player, it is also almost a guaranteed chamber if you know how to time chambers. Some practice required.
I did not mention in this post, that the Crushthrough users are the specific hard counter to shield users, and that is their niche. They can still do OK in melee battles but not vs people of equal skill. Any ranged weapon will kill them -- or any faster weapon, or any longer weapon.
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I really have no Problem with Crush throug and i dont think it should be deleted!But...wy have this Crush Through to be an In-stand kill??
Wy not reducing the damage you get to 1/4 like you Blockt the most Power and get the rest of it!
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Problem: Heirloomed Bar Mace aka Heavy Bar Mace
Estimated visible crushthrough chance: 80% (aka great maul on speed - wtf)
To the dummies thinking you can swing twice, jump around, cast magic shield potion, do other stupid crap on a 92 speed weapon with 95 range, its not possible. Stop being retarded.
Don't have a problem with regular bar mace. It's fine. It's the heirloomed version. It needs its crushthrough rate to remain the same as regular Bar Mace.
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lol whiners.
theres no chance for crushthru , depends on weight , ps , speed bonus + you have to hold the attack for some sec.
you can kill easily a crushthru guy with speed , footwork and timing.
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but you can crush through chamber blocks just fine.
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crusher is a powerful dedicated char much like HA. but unlike HA a crusher is extremely counterable in many ways.
I agree that if anything needs change is the way block crush works, its kind of stupid mechanics (ie. doesn't factor shield skill/shield armour)
but I feel most the complainers here are shield users saying the following:
dear devs,
nerf rock
paper is fine tho
Regards, scissors.
It's not just shield counter, it's anti-melee counter. If used by someone who know how to block, it's impossible to counter in melee. It's just stupid that in melee game there is weapon that can't be countered by most other melee weapon. No, i don't think that it should be hard counter to melee in this game.
I did not mention in this post, that the Crushthrough users are the specific hard counter to shield users, and that is their niche. They can still do OK in melee battles but not vs people of equal skill. Any ranged weapon will kill them -- or any faster weapon, or any longer weapon.
Bullshit.
I really have no Problem with Crush throug and i dont think it should be deleted!But...wy have this Crush Through to be an In-stand kill??
Wy not reducing the damage you get to 1/4 like you Blockt the most Power and get the rest of it!
Exactly, i have no problem with damaging me trough the block, i have problem with the fact that in current mechanic once you are hit by overhead, you are dead as you can only pray that crusher is distracted and hit by something else (as you are stunlocked and crusher can repeat this forever). Broken mechanic need a fix.
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wait morningstar lost crushthrough? aw man, i was gonna go back to 2h and use my morningstar from horseback for super crushtrough. Hmm, can i use a barmace on a horse?
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wait morningstar lost crushthrough? aw man, i was gonna go back to 2h and use my morningstar from horseback for super crushtrough. Hmm, can i use a barmace on a horse?
Yes. At least people used to do it.
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wait morningstar lost crushthrough? aw man, i was gonna go back to 2h and use my morningstar from horseback for super crushtrough. Hmm, can i use a barmace on a horse?
Yes, and also the Maul for massive fun :D
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Just take out crushthrough from the game, otherwise soon we will have a new plauge on our hands : The Crushthrough revolution.
It has happened on AU. Every man and their horse is starting to pull them out.
I wonder if all these people saying their easy to counter and dodge have ever fought against them. Every weapon has its strengths and weaknesses. If a weapon is good at ranged melee, you step in n kill them close, and vice versa. vs barmace you stay at range n its easy for them to block your attacks. you go close and the overhead spam starts n its GG. For those that say dodge, sure, ill take off all my armor so im fast enough to duck in and out, and then where does that leave me? riddled with arrows n throwing weps, cold n dead on the floor. Its not even like the barmace is short either, its close enough to everything else that your only a quick step in away from hitting a polearm at ranged. Its a joke.
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Wow u guys are for real about the barmace. The only real way to take out a bar mace is either u shoot him with bow and arrow opppsss no u can't do that cause u whinners nerfed acrhery so your only other option is throwing weapons. Barmace is the counter to sword and board. There are many ways to take out a barmace guy either be a better player for 1, get a faster weapon with reach or get a range weapon. If u want balance use a different weapon. Stop with the bicthing. First with archery now u want nerf barmaces cause u suck plain and simple. Sorry if I hurt Anyone feelings but that opinion.
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Wow u guys are for real about the barmace.
Yeah, well eventually whiners will get crushthrough removed completely. But they have to do it one weapon at a time. As soon as barmace is nerfed, they'll start on the Great Maul (again) or some other weapon.
wait morningstar lost crushthrough? aw man, i was gonna go back to 2h and use my morningstar from horseback for super crushtrough. Hmm, can i use a barmace on a horse?
Ridiculous, isn't it? Gradually the (very rare and difficult) 2hander Cav build will be destroyed. MS was a terrible weapon, the only thing it was good for was 2hander cav for the horse speed bonus or really high strength builds. And high strength builds are harder now, so I don't know why its gone. Soon there will be no 2handers with crushthrough for cav, and we'll be left with bumpslash only kills. Then people will get that mechanic removed too.
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I have no problem against crush through usually, I say nerf the whiners or start a tutorial server where they can go and learn how to play.
Crush through is only really at an advantage when you're funneled into a tight area forced to engage in a losing battle against the mighty overhead swing of a crush through weapon, if you're smart you wouldn't place yourself in that situation & if you're pro, you'll defeat your opponent in that situation.
Almost every map has different routes for flanking and other such purposes, you are not exactly FORCED to go 'trololololol' and walk into the short, slow, unbalanced overhead swing of a super slow str build.
NERF THE WHINE. it's not that hard to backpeddle and swing a long weapon, pretty much neutralizes most crush through weapons unless their user is an efficient manual blocker.
No offense to those having trouble but come on.
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NERF THE WHINE. it's not that hard to backpeddle and swing a long weapon, pretty much neutralizes most crush through weapons unless their user is an efficient manual blocker.
Er, yeah, it really is. Try running backwards faster than some guy with 15 agi (therefore 5 Athletics) is running forwards...even without swinging at him!
And again, people that pick barmace aren't necessarily mentally challenged and unable to manual block; most people can block a swing or two and then crush through your block :rolleyes:
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On the eu server some people will use barmaces just to troll you guys. When i get killed by a barmace user it's always because of either a failed block, bad timing or some kind of mistake i made. You can counter them with regular 2h swords which have more speed and more reach. The barmace is also unbalanced which means if a guy misses, he will get an additional delay (try swinging a barmace and you can clearly see it).
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On the eu server some people will use barmaces just to troll you guys.
I'm pretty sure most people in this thread are from the Australian server. The guy who used to use an heirloomed barmace has stopped because of the whining, so a lot of the posters here have given up. I still think the heirloomed barmace's OPness should be fixed, even though it currently isn't affecting me (lest others start to use it).
When i get killed by a barmace user it's always because of either a failed block, bad timing or some kind of mistake i made.
And we were getting killed by crushthrough...what's your point? That you have never versed someone with an heirloomed barmace or that you are so incapable of blocking that they don't even need to use their crushthrough to kill you?
You can counter them with regular 2h swords which have more speed and more reach. The barmace is also unbalanced which means if a guy misses, he will get an additional delay (try swinging a barmace and you can clearly see it).
Again, you can get a swing or two in before they're in range. You can't run backwards faster than someone with 5 athletics can run forwards, so what does range matter if the attacker is able to block a swing or two?
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Just do it much slower.80,82 something like this.
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If u can't take being schooled just nerd rage / DELETE. And respec op.
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If u can't take being schooled just nerd rage / DELETE. And respec op.
What about no ? It's retarded to have i win button in the game.
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If u can't take being schooled just nerd rage / DELETE. And respec op.
If can't have a logical discussion, just attempt to troll :rolleyes:
The reason for balancing is so that we can all play our favourite class rather than being forced to play an OP class in order to remain competitive.
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ATTENTION MORONS: It's the Heirloomed Bar Mace that's OP and virtually impossible to fight in the hands of a competent player.
Regular Bar Mace is perfectly fine.
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I have pwn a barmace spammer in the face with my throwing spears. Agin a good barmace play can't dodge alot of arrows or throwing weapons It's simple. It's like I said blunt weapons are the answer to sword and board like sword and board is the answer to throwings and arrows. One type of class should not be op all the time. If u are dieing alot it might be due to player skill.when u nerf arrows u bring out the blunt weapon beast. It like what happens when a animal specices die a predator emerges or cattle left un check wreck the know world. Well I am just saying.
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It's simple. It's like I said blunt weapons are the answer to sword and board like sword and board is the answer to throwings and arrows.
If you need a fast crush through block to counter a shielder you really, really suck at the game.
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with my barmace i kill all shield user(block's) of 2-3 hit )