cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Leshma on July 20, 2011, 10:43:43 am
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I came to conclusion that certain 2H weapons should be one slot. They are listed bellow:
All bastard swords (Bastard, Heavy Bastard and Longsword)
Katana
I'm basing my idea on the fact that those are either short and small weapons or held in one hand while not in combat mode. Therefore I think making them 2 slot like great swords and huge mauls is a bit off and makes no sense.
Do you agree or not? If not please state in this thread why you think it's a bad idea.
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No. Then every archer would be able to use them.
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Longsword is one of the best weapons in the game. Every x-bow user would take an arbalest and a longsword and get the best of two worlds. I think that combination would be overpowered.
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Longsword is one of the best weapons in the game. Every x-bow user would take an arbalest and a longsword and get the best of two worlds. I think that combination would be overpowered.
It isn't one of the best weapons in my book, certainly not at the top 2hander players.
However the obvious thing will happen here: all ranged classes will jump to these weapons and get a massive buff. Unacceptable.
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Real top 2hander player use the longsword.
Anyway, as everybody says, every ranged will use this.
It´s good like it is.
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Yup, I'm a crossbower with 160+ wpf in crossbows and an arbalest.
Currently using a spiked mace to defend myself in melee, but I would instantly switch to the longsword if it became 1 slot.
Would kinda defeat the purpose of having 2 slot weapons imo.
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Well, I used to play before those slot changes and don't recall most archers being an issue in melee close combat fights. If that's the reason why they implemented slots, I spit on it.
I thought idea behind slots was to limit ranged players to use less arrows, bolts and throwing stacks. If they made those changes because archers were being able to use decent melee weapons then I have to say, with great sadness in my voice, that this player base has downgraded in skill imensely and became pussiefied big time.
Don't blame DaveUKR for being better than you in melee, practice to get on his level. Getting close to ranged player shouldn't mean insta win.
I love these stupid changes devs made over course of six months while I was away. Who cares about overly present lag since upkeep patch went online, missed shots (due to lag), crashes, BSODs and other nasty things we c-rpg players have to live with every day, hey they invented SLOTS...
Don't get me wrong, devs are doing immense job making this mod but it seems that they don't have an idea what they want to acomplish in the end.
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Real top 2hander player use the longsword.
You know, server stats tend to disagree with you (at least the NA one). IIRC, among the top-25 NA battle players (http://nacrpg.net/serverStats.php?order=KDR&search=no®ion=NA&mode=Battle&page=1) there are ~7-8 players who use 2hander as their main weapon now (plus 2-3 players who used 2h weapons at a certain moment but then switched to another weapon type). Only ONE of them uses longsword on the regular basis (guess who this guy is :)). With all his drawbacks, longsword is a good dueling weapon (primarily due to its speed), but it lacks the most important feature the real battle weapon should have: damage.
That's funny how often I hear people consider longsword one of the best weapons, an eazy mode, etc. Yes, there are a lot of longsword users on the servers, but the statistics says that 2hander players with the best KDR prefer big and damaging swords.
Back to the topic, I agree that all bastard swords should take 2 slots only to prevent archers/xbowmen from using them even though it puts dedicated 1 1/2 sword users at a disadvantage.
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I think a sword, similar to bastard sword but shorter and less damaging, should be implemented as 1 slot
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I think, making the practice longsword 1 slot weapon will be enough.
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Langes Messer is secondary mode 2h, only 1 slot.
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It isn't one of the best weapons in my book, certainly not at the top 2hander players.
However the obvious thing will happen here: all ranged classes will jump to these weapons and get a massive buff. Unacceptable.
Obviously it's not the best weapon in your book, it's not long enough for you to do the only thing you know which is pressing S while spamming.
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So... we have two scenarios....
1.) Use the current system and have people act like children and complain that archers don't fight and instead run...
2.) Use the original posts suggestion and have people act like children that archers stand their ground and don't die near instantly because they have a real melee weapon...
Well, it has not really been that long since the slot system was implemented, so I am still not tired of people complaining about running archers, so how about we save this suggestion until the majority of archers are tired of the current complaints and want to hear new stuff later on in the upcoming months...
Oh, and for the record I think the HBS is one of the best two handers in the game... so I vote no as I don't want to listen to the constant wine of people using it as 1 slot, or the Longsword which is a wee itsy bitsy whopping 1 length better for 1.2K more... either way both weapons would produce so much wine I may run out of cheese before my next market run...
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Really can't believe that people are whining about archers using good melee weapons. For christ sake, at some point they had much better damage, accuracy, dps and were able to use damn Flamberge while it had decent speed (89 or 88 I believe) and 2H stab. Some hated the fact that competent archer could slice them at melee range but most step up and used their advantage (more WPF, better armor).
Btw. yesterday I witnessed archers running from fight and prolonging the round more than few times. It's a lot more annoying than archers being capable in melee. You see, only nabs hate archers using big bad sword, on the other hand everyone, especially pro's hate pussy archers running from close combat.
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You wish to give archers more power? Odd, for a Bandit.
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Really can't believe that people are whining about archers using good melee weapons. For christ sake, at some point they had much better damage, accuracy, dps and were able to use damn Flamberge while it had decent speed (89 or 88 I believe) and 2H stab. Some hated the fact that competent archer could slice them at melee range but most step up and used their advantage (more WPF, better armor).
Btw. yesterday I witnessed archers running from fight and prolonging the round more than few times. It's a lot more annoying than archers being capable in melee. You see, only nabs hate archers using big bad sword, on the other hand everyone, especially pro's hate pussy archers running from close combat.
So are you cool with letting me carry a piece of gear for every situation again as well?
2her for battle, axe for shields, pike for horses and shield for ranged?
Cause that's kind of like the archer thing with a great melee weapon.
Bow for horse
Bow for ranged
Bow for 2hers
2her/axe for shields
Btw the langes messer, military sickle and fighting axe are all good 1 slot 2hers. use them.
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You wish to give archers more power? Odd, for a Bandit.
I don't see how giving them good melee weapon is giving them more power. Most archers are crappy players, that's the main reason they choose way of the f-agcher. Those who can block and attack properly should be given that oportunity.
You're all acting like I said, yo give archers German or Danish. Not a long time ago, archers with German were reality. Now even bastard sword is considered huge buff to archers...
@Gorath
Never had problem with swiss knife chars. I actually liked that when some people were lvl 44. I was never higher than lvl 31 and never had problems with that. I also like to use char which is capable in every field but not really good in any of them. Why? Because I'm not playing to be a stupid soldier who has just one role and takes orders from some no-lifer schmuck kiddo. I'm playing to have fun and being versatile means more fun for me because I can change roles often.
For example, myself being shielder/xbowman (atm) means I have huge advantage over archers because I have a shield so I can easily block their arrows, when I find shelter I can kill them with no problem since I have range as well which hurt more then theirs. One on one, I can kill any archer in this game no matter how good he is and I'm barely average player. Is my build stone for ther scissors? Maybe. But still I find it lame that most archers can't do much against me. They are issue only in groups and only if they have half a brain.
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Some of our ranged players are far better than the average melee you see on the servers. Sorry, but I would not give them more power :)
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I would like to see the Bastard Sword, Heavy Bastard Sword, and Longsword, converted to 1 slot status. Being that these weapons can be used in one hand I believe there is a case for this. I'd like them to be as equally viable as the Langes Messer. This would involve small changes to the stats of all four swords to keep the current balance. Here is what I suggest.
Langes Messer (2h)
weapon length: 92
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 101 (+1)
weapon length: 92
thrust damage: 21 pierce (-4)
swing damage: 36 cut (+1)
slots: 1
Secondary Mode
Notes: Being of curved design, this weapon should not out pierce the other three swords, but rather, out cut them. The idea is to have a faster, sharper, but shorter sword.
Bastard Sword
weapon length: 101
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 101
thrust damage: 23 pierce (+2)
swing damage: 34 cut (-1)
slots: 1 (-1)
Secondary Mode
Heavy Bastard Sword
weapon length: 105
weight: 2
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 24 pierce (+1)
swing damage: 35 cut (-1)
slots: 1 (-1)
Secondary Mode
Longsword
weapon length: 106
weight: 2.2 (+0.4)
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 96 (-2)
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 24 pierce (+1)
swing damage: 36 cut
slots: 1 (-1)
Secondary Mode
Notes. These three are self explanatory. Shorter = faster, but less damage.
Additional balance changes required under these values.
Figting Axe 2h. Increase swing to 37c. (Otherwise non-viable as 2h hybrid)
Two Handed Axe. Increase swing to 37c. (Otherwise outdamaged by 2h hybrid axe)
Katana. Make not shit. (Incrase swing to 37c, stab to 22p at bare minimum. I am unsure about it being one slot however.)
Something to that effect would be fine.
EDIT - With further consideration I removed an additional point of speed from the longsword.
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@Gorath
Never had problem with swiss knife chars. I actually liked that when some people were lvl 44. I was never higher than lvl 31 and never had problems with that. I also like to use char which is capable in every field but not really good in any of them. Why? Because I'm not playing to be a stupid soldier who has just one role and takes orders from some no-lifer schmuck kiddo. I'm playing to have fun and being versatile means more fun for me because I can change roles often.
For example, myself being shielder/xbowman (atm) means I have huge advantage over archers because I have a shield so I can easily block their arrows, when I find shelter I can kill them with no problem since I have range as well which hurt more then theirs. One on one, I can kill any archer in this game no matter how good he is and I'm barely average player. Is my build stone for ther scissors? Maybe. But still I find it lame that most archers can't do much against me. They are issue only in groups and only if they have half a brain.
Ok cool then, I'd support it. I miss my uber hybrid from pre-big-patch (100 wpf in 1h/2h/pa/xbow/throwing) and being able to carry equipment to counter anything I might run into. Since pub teams suck ass I'd rather have a swiss army knife so I can at least try to rely on myself more.