cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Spa_geh_tea on July 20, 2011, 05:16:30 am

Title: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on July 20, 2011, 05:16:30 am: Shouldn't short one handers be the dominant weapon at face hug range? well they aren't....thats the 2h and polearm department. WHAAaaaaaAA????!?!?!!!!?? :|

Read the spoilers below if you are intrigued......if not......oh well.

Problem:
(click to show/hide)
When face hugging your enemy's your weapon will quite often glance. However, you enemy will not and preform full damage on your "stunned" body. Why does this occur?

It is a combination of lack of "speed" bonus because your weapon is so short that the game is possibly taking a weak reading. Your enemy has a long weapon and the game might give them the benefit of the doubt and takes the farthest element of their weapon and gives them the speed bonus they need to kill you. It could also be do too the enemy's weapon be so long that it can reach farther areas of your hitbox giving them a incorrect reading of damage output. The other element the couples this is the "hilt" of the short one handers are are hitting your before your blade does. The game reads this is a glance and you are stunned and die.

This event occurs often with cutting weapons shorter than 85 length. This excludes maces and some of the axes.

Solutions:
(click to show/hide)
Remove the "hilt" code or make it seem farther away from the blade. This will fool the game and allow at short 1h weapon to actually have the advantage at face hug ranges. Increasing the speed does not seem to help much, as I have tested this with most of the higher damage short weapons that range at different speeds. They all do it.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Digglez on July 20, 2011, 06:22:16 am: or add pommel smashes and punches!
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 20, 2011, 12:42:10 pm: I was laughing at someone glancing with their elder's long dagger today. Repeatedly. And on a strength build, no less.

That should never happen. No idea why it happens though, when I hiltslash people with long weapons all day with no problem.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Christo on July 20, 2011, 12:51:32 pm: Yeah. Make 1h even more powerful.

Blah.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Farrok on July 20, 2011, 02:24:04 pm: Quote from: Christo on July 20, 2011, 12:51:32 pm
Yeah. Make 1h even more powerful.

Blah.

when this is wanted than i would say put shieldbash in(short stun when spammers try to facehug) or make it so a shielder can block an attack at the same time (realistic but unbalanced because poor 2hspammers then cant do anything against them on the other hand this would counter the stupid unrealistic lightspeed twohander but still to overpowered than because than it would be a bit more realistic)
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Bobthehero on July 20, 2011, 06:13:42 pm: Quote from: Christo on July 20, 2011, 12:51:32 pm
Yeah. Make 1h even more powerful.

Blah.

We all know 1 handers sucks :rolleyes:

(click to show/hide)
:P
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: San on July 20, 2011, 06:38:06 pm: This makes sense. A lot of the 1h cutting weapons with shorter length are usually deemed useless compared to their 92-100 length counterparts, and this sounds more like fixing something that shouldn't be happening rather than derp buffing 1hs.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on July 20, 2011, 11:57:19 pm: I have been doing a lot of game-time with very short swords......and let me tell you, I have been raging a ton. This is truely broken and I fail to see how it buffs 1h class at all. It merely fixes the short swords so they become more viable to gameplay.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: EyeBeat on July 21, 2011, 07:47:14 am: Weapons like the Long Dagger and Warhammer should not glance all the time like they have been for me. I thought I was the only one noticing this.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: ArchonAlarion on July 21, 2011, 06:48:28 pm: Definitely needs to be fixed. I'd like to see more daggers in use lol
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Seawied on July 21, 2011, 08:50:58 pm: Quote from: EyeBeatWomen on July 21, 2011, 07:47:14 am
Weapons like the Long Dagger and Warhammer should not glance all the time like they have been for me. I thought I was the only one noticing this.

long dagger is incredibly hard to get a good hit in. :?

A shame though, as it would be a fun weapon to use to take down plate
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: MouthnHoof on July 22, 2011, 01:16:09 pm: Quote from: Marathon on July 20, 2011, 12:42:10 pm
That should never happen. No idea why it happens though, when I hiltslash people with long weapons all day with no problem.
It has to do with the animation and the way the collision point is calculated.

The engine measures the distance from the right fist to the collision point. This is somehow then compared with the weapon reach stat. When you have a long weapon, this ratio of distance and reach changes slowly in terms of absolute distance along the blade. With a very short weapon, every cm makes a huge difference. Since collision detection is not perfect and works in discrete intervals, with short weapons you will get more extreme readings and very often effective "0" distance hits. The damage modification will also be more like full damage or min damage.

The animation between different styles (1H,2H, poles) also has an effect. Animations that extend the hand forward can in principle have the hand inside the target when it hits, while a different animation will hit farther away from the grip even though you face the opponent from the same distance. I do not know if 1H is more prone to this, but I rarely glance with 2H even if I am close enough to lick the nose of the other guy. Not thecase with 1H and 2H-poles.

Short weapons should have had in creased minimum damage, so daggers would almost ignore this distance vs. weapon reach damage modification mechanism. It was not introduced with daggers in mind.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on July 22, 2011, 11:39:56 pm: (click to show/hide)
Quote from: MouthnHoof on July 22, 2011, 01:16:09 pm
It has to do with the animation and the way the collision point is calculated.

The engine measures the distance from the right fist to the collision point. This is somehow then compared with the weapon reach stat. When you have a long weapon, this ratio of distance and reach changes slowly in terms of absolute distance along the blade. With a very short weapon, every cm makes a huge difference. Since collision detection is not perfect and works in discrete intervals, with short weapons you will get more extreme readings and very often effective "0" distance hits. The damage modification will also be more like full damage or min damage.

The animation between different styles (1H,2H, poles) also has an effect. Animations that extend the hand forward can in principle have the hand inside the target when it hits, while a different animation will hit farther away from the grip even though you face the opponent from the same distance. I do not know if 1H is more prone to this, but I rarely glance with 2H even if I am close enough to lick the nose of the other guy. Not thecase with 1H and 2H-poles.

Short weapons should have had in creased minimum damage, so daggers would almost ignore this distance vs. weapon reach damage modification mechanism. It was not introduced with daggers in mind.

^ Awesome suggestion and I really do hope the developers take a peak at this and consider it. It seems like a simple number change in a text file.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: DrKronic on July 24, 2011, 07:06:38 am: uhhh, they're called steel picks and 1h maces, and there is no problem(at all, some of the easiest kills to get in the game is to be a 1h user with these)

2h is weak as hell, problem is most rubes can't tell a polearm from a 2h user so they think its the same thing
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 24, 2011, 07:13:04 am: Quote from: DrKronic on July 24, 2011, 07:06:38 am
uhhh, they're called steel picks and 1h maces, and there is no problem(at all, some of the easiest kills to get in the game is to be a 1h user with these)

2h is weak as hell, problem is most rubes can't tell a polearm from a 2h user so they think its the same thing
I laughed for 2 minutes straight. I needed that, thank you.
Title: Re: A broken feature of 1h shorter than approx 85 length
Post by: Seawied on July 24, 2011, 07:22:21 am: I have several different builds who all use a variety of weapons. 1h weapons, particularly short 1h weapons require a lot more skill than people credit them with.

With 2h and polearms, whiffing isn't much of a problem, and the overall sweet-spot is much larger. To use a short 1h weapon, you must have a mastery over landing the hit in that razor thin margin of a sweet-spot.

I personally believe the vast majority of idiot noobs who cry "OMG 1H SHOULD BE ABLE TO OUT-SPAM 2h!!!!" are simply new players who fail to realize that the "spam" they encounter is a more-skilled player taking advantaged of a whiff with their short 1h sword.

Is it a broken feature? Maybe. I'm not even sure a potential fix to this "problem" is codeable.