cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Vieuxcrotter on July 15, 2011, 10:51:32 am
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So this is normal with the new upkeep system that you lose money with gears of 10000$ if you are at x1 all the time?
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Yeah right :rolleyes:
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Im serious i got clothing armor a shield with difficulty 2 and a sword that cost 500gp to repair.
When that sword break say good bye all the profit you made.
If im constantly thrown in the loosing team because alot of the time clan are stacked and they are winning. If i go over 10000$ of gears like around 13000$ im losing money like crazy.
And this is btw on siege servers, i dont know if its different on battle servers.
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What the hell, you can't lose money like crazy with freakin 13k total gear. You just can't.
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no they re is something wrong, i never loose any $ with upkeep...
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+/- upkeep inflation. Yeah, it keeps some people in line, but people who have been playing a long time are unphased. New players will have a hard time getting anything at this rate. I thought the whole point of upkeep was to be friendly to new players due to the vets not being able to run around in their plate and expensive gear 24/7. It never changed. All the old players have a nice chunk of gold and it never once stopped them from using the gear they loved from back in the day, and it makes it easier for them to slaughter new people in garbage gear because they can barely pay for what they struggled for. Upkeep is not going to make people use their stuff more or less. Why not just get rid of it? It was a nice concept at the start, but all I see is new players having to peasant for weeks to get enough gold to get anything decent, then by the time they get it they can barely maintain it due to upkeep, especially now. I personally am not affected by upkeep, but it is really ruining the fun for newer players trying to get into the game and it is ruining the fun and challenge for vets due to not having much of a challenge fighting people with low grade gear. Most people see good gear as a crutch but for most it is the way they use it. You can run around in plate and the most expensive things all day, but it is not going to change the fact that someone with enough skill in lighter armour will still tear through your metal walls and crush you.
Just my 2 cents.
I found this post from Poophammer in another thread.
This guy is alright, I couldnt have said it better.
Upkeep was implemented and was a good try. But the only thing that changed it was New- and Medium- Players are getting punished. Hardcore Players arnt effected by the upkeep.
If you raise the upkeep (like last patch from 5%-7%) some Hardcore Players lose some money, but New- and Medium Players cant achieve their gear anymore. Like the guy who started the thread and many others who are running around in peasant gear and getting slaughtered by the hardcore one.
Bugatti Veyron vs. Smart.
Look at the guys running around in plate, most of them are the old players with hundred thousands of gold.
The Problem is not that they are running around in plate and using the gear what they want - the problem is the other players cant use their gear what they want because of the upkeep. That means that players who are that damn good, cant be stopped because they have uber gear and other cant ur theirs.
I think upkeep should be removed completely out of the game. That would make it be fair for everone and everybody could use the gear what they want.
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The only way I have made money since the patch is if I wear under 15K gear (make like 1000 every 5 hours of playing), which means light armor, and a sword (can't even us bow at same time) or naked with a longbow, arrows and fighting axe. Otherwise I consistently lost or broke even every days ince the patch. I did finally just go naked with a 0 slot hammer on siege for a few hours and made 10K. If this keeps up thats just going to be the normal pattern of things - go on siege with peasant gear and grind for gold half the time to be able to afford wearing my normal 22K gear. Seems like both the break percentage is higher than before as I get all my things broken in a round more often and the upkeep costs have gone up. Maybe they should recheck their code.
Income is a flat rate, while upkeep is a percentage so changing the numbers by 5% (supposedly) can decrease people's net income by 50% or more or even turn it negative very easily. The numbers should be checked for 20K worth of gear, because that much gear should consistently make money (thats low-end mid-tier armor and medium expense weapon)
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Poopie said it well. And.. it really doesn't even take very long for a person to get to where upkeep is irrelevant. Retire once, sell your heirloom point for 400-450k. A +1 item isn't going to make that much of a difference anyway. Then you have a fairly massive offset against repair costs, and can wear quite expensive gear if you plan to repeat the process each retirement.
A quick fix, I guess, could be eliminating repair costs for 1st gen character below level 30.
That would lessen the most painful effects of the repair system.
But it's still fundamentally broken. Among many, many other problems, it doesn't take into account the fact that many of the 'best builds' don't involve heavy armor at all, not because of the cost but because of the speed and wpf penalty. So the intent to cut down on the number of people wearing their best gear in order to make it easier for newer players only impacts a particular type of build to begin with.
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Im serious i got clothing armor a shield with difficulty 2 and a sword that cost 500gp to repair.
When that sword break say good bye all the profit you made.
If im constantly thrown in the loosing team because alot of the time clan are stacked and they are winning. If i go over 10000$ of gears like around 13000$ im losing money like crazy.
And this is btw on siege servers, i dont know if its different on battle servers.
If I had to guess you probably use around 30k - 40k worth of gear Vieux, which is kinda silly if you are going to be using a huscarl shield you dont need that much armor. If you are having money problems use less expensive weapons or better yet, scavenge from the battle field.
You also dont win very often, which doesnt help your case.
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Not including arrows and low wpf weapons, you should theoretically be able to sustain 46000 gold worth of equipment and break even. This is assuming a 50% win rate and an average multiplier of 1.9375.
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Thats strange, I've got 28k gear and gain money no matter what.
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New upkeep is broken, almost everytime I lost a round, repair for my highland claymore is 899, not to mention armor, so a minimum of 1k+ when I lose. So I stopped playing.
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No idea what you guys are talking about. I play with 50k worth of gear and have made close to 60k since the patch.
Dont use weps that cost alot and your fine. Mine only repairs for like 380 gold. MW Longspear
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Well shit, someone people enjoy using more expensive gear, why wouldnt they be able to do so?
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I think it is just giving some characters really bad luck. My archer alt was getting owned by repairs I had about 30% repair rate on normal gear and 50% on arrows but my 2 hander is doing just fine only seeing something need repairs every couple rounds. Got so bad on my archer I stopped bringing a sword and only wield 1 stack of arrows even then i was repairing random swords i would pick up far more often than i would like. Sucks when you are losing a lot then get hammered by a 1300 repair bill for a sword you don't even own. I need to remember to ditch my scavenged swords when the round is lost. I was only in leather gear with a Horn bow and two stacks of tatar arrows i think they are called now and seemed to still lose money not much but I think I lost 6k in the rounds i played before switching guys.
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No idea what you guys are talking about. I play with 50k worth of gear and have made close to 60k since the patch.
Dont use weps that cost alot and your fine. Mine only repairs for like 380 gold. MW Longspear
You are not paying upkeep for 50k. When a weapon is loomed it`s base price gets higher, but the upkeeps stays the same.
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You are not paying upkeep for 50k. When a weapon is loomed it`s base price gets higher, but the upkeeps stays the same.
A lot of people need to remember this!
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No idea what you guys are talking about. I play with 50k worth of gear and have made close to 60k since the patch.
Dont use weps that cost alot and your fine. Mine only repairs for like 380 gold. MW Longspear
I've seen your armor and weapon and thats not 50K, more like 25K. The number on the website includes the value of heirlooms, which isn't counted in calculating upkeep.
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Oops, forgot about that :D
Let me add it up...
Just over 30k not including the looms. So I am still way above what you people are saying you lose money at. I really think weps have higher repair rates than armor. I would consider using something that doesn't repair for very much.
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Oops, forgot about that :D
Let me add it up...
Just over 30k not including the looms. So I am still way above what you people are saying you lose money at. I really think weps have higher repair rates than armor. I would consider using something that doesn't repair for very much.
That actually might be it if they don't have a 0% increased break chance once you hit 100 wpf, then you would still have a higher eprcentage of breaking because they forgot to end the loop of the mathematical equation at some point reasonable.
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All I know is my weapon breaks alot more than any other piece of equipment. That being said the new upkeep hurts.
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All I know is my weapon breaks alot more than any other piece of equipment. That being said the new upkeep hurts.
They now linked wpf to how often your weapon breaks.
How much wpf do you have?
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They now linked wpf to how often your weapon breaks.
How much wpf do you have?
The Devs should also link Str (for Armor), ShieldSkill, Riding Skill, Bow Skill, Throwing Skill.... to the chance of breaking.
The more u have, the less it breaks!
Would also lead to ppl who use xbows with more WPF perhaps... more than mostly 1 have at the moment.
UPKEEP SUXX
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If I had to guess you probably use around 30k - 40k worth of gear Vieux, which is kinda silly if you are going to be using a huscarl shield you dont need that much armor. If you are having money problems use less expensive weapons or better yet, scavenge from the battle field.
You also dont win very often, which doesnt help your case.
No i dont anymore this was before, i lose too much and i'm broke im running around in peasant gear now.
Default equipment
Armor: 10h 38b 22l Cost: 12,798 gold Slots: 2/4
Look that my gear if im stuck in the losing team at x1 i cannot make any money, if im able to stay even im lucky.
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Seriously it really suck now, the developers need to check the coding something is wrong everything break every round.
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It is all luck people, i keep playing with gear worht like 30k or so and in the long run i make money.
Started yesterday in the morning at 113k, ended at night with 145k or so, bought some weapons in the process, wearing usually Danish and/or Maul, klappvisier, gilded gloves, plated boots and either heraldic trans/heraldic mail or brigandine.
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It is all luck people, i keep playing with gear worht like 30k or so and in the long run i make money.
Started yesterday in the morning at 113k, ended at night with 145k or so, bought some weapons in the process, wearing usually Danish and/or Maul, klappvisier, gilded gloves, plated boots and either heraldic trans/heraldic mail or brigandine.
I am agreeing with the above.
I think the new pkeep system is just forcing players to have a much larger reserve as the "swing" is now larger, so you can dip higher and lower in your range.
However, this does still make it substantially harder for new players as now they need a larger reserve then even before. While before I could recommend a reserve of 10,000 to 30,000 depending on what you use to account for tilting, now I would raise that figure to a range of 30,000 to 50,000.
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Overall I agree with upkeep, but it seems that the devs have now turned it into a lazy way of "balancing".
Crossbows are the perfect example. MW arbalests still 1-shot people. So, the devs just increase the chance of upkeep for people who have 1 wpf. That doesn't actually fix the problem though. Especially since the people who have MW xbows generally have a shit-ton of money as it is.
You can see this in pretty much every category of items. All it does currently is hurt weapon diversity and makes it harder for new players. How would you feel if you were a new player and saw some cool new item that you would really like to have. So you save up a ton of money, buy it and then find out you need to save up 50k in your bank account just to be able to use it on a regular basis.
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I play two Chars. A shielder with decent gear and a Sword-Cav with medium gear and destrier.
I can only earn money with the shielder, when i got x4 or x5 for some rounds.
With the Cav-Guy i need at least x2 to x3, to earn money.
The new Upkeep-Value is too high.
Since the patch came out untill now, both chars lost money.
And i bought nothing.
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I found this post from Poophammer in another thread.
This guy is alright, I couldnt have said it better.
Upkeep was implemented and was a good try. But the only thing that changed it was New- and Medium- Players are getting punished. Hardcore Players arnt effected by the upkeep.
If you raise the upkeep (like last patch from 5%-7%) some Hardcore Players lose some money, but New- and Medium Players cant achieve their gear anymore. Like the guy who started the thread and many others who are running around in peasant gear and getting slaughtered by the hardcore one.
Bugatti Veyron vs. Smart.
Look at the guys running around in plate, most of them are the old players with hundred thousands of gold.
The Problem is not that they are running around in plate and using the gear what they want - the problem is the other players cant use their gear what they want because of the upkeep. That means that players who are that damn good, cant be stopped because they have uber gear and other cant ur theirs.
I think upkeep should be removed completely out of the game. That would make it be fair for everone and everybody could use the gear what they want.
this.
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How about instead of upkeep you get rewarded dependant on your equipment.
So you earn nothing at all and get no XP if you're spending over a certain amount.
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Well we know that arrows have a higher chance of breaking, so an archer can't carry as much as other classes. Try using less than bodkins.
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Crossbows are the perfect example. MW arbalests still 1-shot people. So, the devs just increase the chance of upkeep for people who have 1 wpf. That doesn't actually fix the problem though. Especially since the people who have MW xbows generally have a shit-ton of money as it is.
We do? Being a crossobwman is expesive, always has been.
Also, one-hots ain't unfair. I often go down in one melee hit and those hits can be spammed. Arbalest shot is ranged, but you need to stand still, reloading over a fair amount of time. Seems fair to me.
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The guy on the receiving end of a crossbow shot cant fight back if he is a melee player, otherwise the other guy 1 shot you as well.
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We do? Being a crossobwman is expesive, always has been.
Also, one-hots ain't unfair. I often go down in one melee hit and those hits can be spammed. Arbalest shot is ranged, but you need to stand still, reloading over a fair amount of time. Seems fair to me.
I like how you ignored the whole post and then nit-picked one little point.
So, it's fair to one-shot someone (in the body not the head) from across the map, since someone can potentially one-shot you with a melee hit. However, that melee guy has to get past all your teammates before he gets to you. I still don't see how that's equal. Especially since player skill can stop that melee hit from even happening.
Regardless, making things expensive is a lazy way to balance. Especially since by selling one heirloom point your money problems are over. Not to mention that it is still very unfair to new people.
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I think there should be a minor upkeep, but when an item breaks and it needs to be repaired you should not be able to use it for x amount of rounds. X rounds could be based on the expense of the item, the more expensive the more rounds it takes to be repaired.
You could also limit the amount of items you are allowed to use by capping how many say 1handed weapons you have. You could also give weapons etc a tier rating again limiting the amount of tier weapons in your inventory.
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I think there should be a minor upkeep, but when an item breaks and it needs to be repaired you should not be able to use it for x amount of rounds. X rounds could be based on the expense of the item, the more expensive the more rounds it takes to be repaired.
You could also limit the amount of items you are allowed to use by capping how many say 1handed weapons you have. You could also give weapons etc a tier rating again limiting the amount of tier weapons in your inventory.
lol what
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what on earth does what mean?
You could at least comment on it instead of being Derogatory.
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It was a horrible suggestion. If you don't spend a few seconds thinking over what you suggested, then I won't spend more than a few seconds commenting it.
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what on earth does what mean?
You could at least comment on it instead of being Derogatory.
He is likely laughing on how this would devastate new players by forcing them to have a large armoury or buy multiple of the same item.
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I see crotter play with his clan mates on a regular basis on siege. They have a small force, usually 2-4 guys and they seem to work together, at least crotter and drdemento.
In all honesty the upkeep system is pretty shitty for new players, but crotter is on regularly and should be making doh, if he's not then something is wrong.
I always tell my guys, "you gotta spend money to make money."
That means bring 2 weapons, different battles happen on siege every time u spawn. Maybe running around with just your sword and buckler isnt getting the job done.
Every time I engage You in melee, you never bother bringing an axe to counter me, or my other 2 clan mates that are shielders. You know DL owns the night on siege, maybe hop in teamspeak with us and banner stack!
Bring a axe, bring a long spear, bring a crossbow, or bring a warspear. Use something other than the 1her and shield, because siege is a big team game. If you dont help the newb next to you get a kill, you prolly will end up having to fight 3v1 alot. If you dont change tactics and you insist on running around trying to duel people on siege, 1v1, your going to burn through cash, and end up rage quiting.
My 2 cents, i love u and demento, but when u guys fight back to back, one of you should have a support weapon.
When one of my guys engages someone in melee, i drop back, switch to a spear, and poke people in the ass so my 1hers and 2hers can chop their asses in half.
Only half my kills are with my main, the other half are my red tassel, my great maul, my long spear, my horse bumps, my crossbow, my axe, or even my warcleaver!
SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY MY FRIEND, and your whole c-rpg experience will change for the better.
I promise
I also pm'd this to you.
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Well you actually don't see how it works.
What it would do is limit the time you could use expensive gear solving the issues with high level players with way to much gold. but not nerfing low level players to much like it does now
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Well you actually don't see how it works.
What it would do is limit the time you could use expensive gear solving the issues with high level players with way to much gold. but not nerfing low level players to much like it does now
Also preventing to use hard earned looms. Smart, very smart.
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Not preventing just restricting.
Loomed items are far harder to come buy now than what they once were.
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So, it's fair to one-shot someone (in the body not the head) from across the map
Play the class before talking bullshit.
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Play the class before talking bullshit.
+1
I have an inner sigh of relief whenever I come across an enemy crossbowman instead of an archer (both as a melee and ranged char). The reloading speed is the difference between me easily escaping/engaging and needing to dodge around arrows.