cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shpongled on January 15, 2011, 09:14:35 am
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1. Long awlpike made 2h only.
...and
2. Staff slash on horse removed.
OP? Hardly... On NA I think I saw one other cav using a staff on horseback, and myself and Sulla were some of the very few who used long awl as a 1h, Walt and DeafeningFlood going with the regular from the beginning.
As far as I can see, the only thing these changes have done is reduce variety. My loadout of heavy lance, iron staff, long awl + shield has lost two playstyles, yet I have never heard anyone so much as grumble about either staff slash or 1h long awl.
They weren't broke, so why were they 'fixed'?
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Problem probably was because of the iron staff not the other one same for bec horse slash.
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and myself and Sulla were some of the very few who used long awl as a 1h, Walt and DeafeningFlood going with the regular from the beginning.
As far as I can see, the only thing these changes have done is reduce variety. My loadout of heavy lance, iron staff, long awl + shield has lost two playstyles, yet I have never heard anyone so much as grumble about either staff slash or 1h long awl.
They weren't broke, so why were they 'fixed'?
Do add ATS to that list....
They were changed to make it "moar historic".
Please direct all complaints directly to Shik, it is all her/his/it/random creature's fault.
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It absolutely makes no sense.
Let's look at the stats for the Awlpike and the Long Awlpike
Awlpike, 4532g
weight 2
requirement 8
spd rtng 92
weapon length 165
swing damage 17, blunt
thrust damage 33 pierce
Long Awlpike, 5242g
weight 2.25
requirement 11
spd rtng 89
weapon length 185
swing damage 18, blunt
thrust damage 32 pierce
Just by looking at these stats, why on earth would you buy a long awlpike now, you can't use it with a shield. Too bad that you miss out on 20 weapon length but you get used to that.
I'm sad that my long awlpike is no longer in use. As for the "historic", it is true that the awl pike was used as a spear with no shield. But we're playing a game here. Where there ninjas fighting for the european countries back in those days? Just to add the weight difference between the two pikes is 0.25 which should not make a difference between 1h and 2h. To put that in perspective, a worn robe is 1 weight while a tunic with vest is 1.5. I leave it at that.
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Does it still only have 2 attack directions?
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They were changed to make it "moar historic".
As for the "historic", it is true that the awl pike was used as a spear with no shield.
The awlpike was used with shields:
"The ahlspiess, or "awl-pike" in English, puntone a piatello in Italian and lance a pousser in French, is documented in the archives of the city of Vienna as appearing as early as 1444 and it is likely that it was adopted by the Austrians from the Hussites who used it in combination with a large shield (the pavese or setz-tarche.)"
That quotation is from Waldman, J., Hafted Weapons in Medieval and Renaissance Europe. The Evolution of European Staff Weapons between 1200 and 1650. 2005. ISBN 90-04-14409-9 (ISSN 1385-7827) who referenced Duriegl, G., Waissenberger, R., Das Weiner Burgerliche Zeughaus, Eigenverlag der Museen der Stadt Wien. 1977. Das Weiner Burgerliche Zeughaus is out of print, and I have not yet managed to acquire a copy to give a more direct quotation. However, the work by Duriegl was done through the Civil Armory of Vienna which possesses numerous awlpikes and pavese dating from the 15th century.
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The awlpike was used with shields:
I think he meant to say long awlpike actually.
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The distinction between long and short awlpikes seems to appear only in Mount & Blade. John Waldman notes that extant awlpike spikes are about 1m in length while most shafts range from 1.6 to 1.8m. The shafts are more modern replacements, unfortunately, and 15th century art work depicts them with somewhat longer shafts. 20cm of shaft length is largely trivial in the classification schemes of hafted weapon, and I doubt the average Hussite peasants soldier cared about standardization to begin with. For what it is worth, the earliest awlpikes (i.e. those most likely to have been used with shields) would most likely have had the longest shafts while later versions would have been shortened for use by dismounted, armored tournament combatants in the same capacity as poleaxes. This reduction in weapon dimensions of hafted military weapons to dueling weapons is typified by the reduction in size and weight of the infantry halberd to the more knightly poleaxe.
TLDR: All awlpikes should be useable with shields.
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TLDR: All awlpikes should be useable with shields.
I agree, and I think it's a stupid change. Was just saying what I thought he meant to say.
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I agree, and I think it's a stupid change. Was just saying what I thought he meant to say.
I disagree, there is already one that is usable with the shield, i'm fine with the longer as pure 2h polearm.