cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Keshian on July 11, 2011, 05:35:50 am
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You many know me, I'm an archer (I know, I know, I'm seeing a shrink about it). As much as I would get frustrated shooting tin cans 10 times with my strong bow and arrows to kill a tin can, it took real skill to do so. The decreased shoot speed of the bows allows for arrows to be more affected by the speed bonus' impact on damage based on the shoot speed even though the shoot speed is lower (talk to developers to figure out the exact mathematics, one of the reasons throwers did so much damage). Testing out the current patch, I am doing far more damage and 1-2 shotting almost everyone, even tincan strength builds only 3-4 arrows to kill with my CUT damaeg bow. I was shot by an archer I have been shot before using same CUT damage bow against my 56 body armor and it did 70% of my health instead of the usual 35%. And if you think its some archer complaining about doing worse, it's not, one of my first maps I went 16-3, killing people like balbaroth, dextaa, and cyranule with arrows doing massive damage.
My own persepctive -- this is a step in the wrong direction, archers were well-balanced and there were still plenty of them around. We don't need another bunch of 1-2 shotting throwers with slow shoot speeds. Most of these kills felt kind of cheap as there was so little skill involved with high accuracy and incredibly deadly arrows. Real skill usually means shooting the same guy more than a couple times and really differentiated archers, despite the developers' stating they did this to make it more skillful, instead the opposite is occcuring.
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I noticed the same thing. Getting two shotted several times by what looked like a Strong (Horn) bow. I don't any of them were MW either. Archers really pulled a surprising buff with this.
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getting 2shot in rus scale with 6 if
and with changes to upkeep i can't even wear that armor without going broke completely
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I'm getting 1 shotted =/ I would love to get 2 shotted.
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I noticed the same thing. Getting two shotted several times by what looked like a Strong (Horn) bow. I don't any of them were MW either. Archers really pulled a surprising buff with this.
yeh, Paul the developer explained it once a couple months back. The slower the projectile speed, the more of a boost to damage it can get from the speed bonus to damage that come from things like powerdraw or powerthrow increasing the speed.
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Well i can 2 shot pretty much anything on my Archer alt using a warbow + bodkins (Nothing loomed) so i don't even want to thing about those people out there that loomed their shit..
I'm scared to move around now even tho i am wearing 68 body armor most of the time... and don't start telling me i should bring a shield, i'm a pure 2hander which means i don't have any spare points to put in shield before lvl 34 lol
We will see what happens with that in the next few days, till then, i'll hang out in the duel server where skill is actually needed! :P
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While I agree that I dont like the change, I disagree in this context. Since we can no longer hit anything at range, plinking their health slowly away, we need to be able to actually do decent damage in the range that bows now possess.
If they take away the increased damage, then we need the range back. Shooting even horses at distance is primary a matter of picking a spot you hope someone will be in 3 seconds from now.
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tell me whats decent in 2 shotting med to heavy armor at medium range before they have time to even know where its coming from plz... Any decent archers just became OP with that HUGE damage buff
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In a week I will be creating a poll with five options (Melee player hates/likes new archery, archer hates/likes new archery, don't care) just to see what people's opinions are.
As of now, this is a mess in my opinion. I have turned from a sniper, to a walking turret of death. Stay far away from me and you no longer fear me, but god help you if you wander anywhere near my MW Rus Bow now or I will blow your brains out. I can even reliably one shot coursers now, and pick apart all by myself Cataphracts. This is beyond idiotic. I also laugh at the black plate users that are going broke and are still being shot to hell.
FYI I am using standard arrows. If I were to switch to Bodkins I would lose some money, but I also notice (btw arrows break retardedly often) that I can one shot a disturbing amount of people in chain, and only my ex-warbow (now Rus bow) is MWed, not my bodkins...
TL:DR I can no longer snipe as anyone with half a brain can dodge, but come within 15 or 20 meters of me and you are a dead man walking.
EDIT: Did I mention that my build was 18/21, and now I am working for a 27/18 build at level 33? At 30 I will still be 24/18... Do you really want 8/9PD archers taking advantage of this new insta-death short range crap that we are pretending is archery?
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A damage boost to compensate for the smaller range is fine, but it was too much this time around. Even as a shielder, it's much more risky to go on the offensive. It still may be fine, so I think we should give this a little time so people can adjust to these new generation archers.
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BTW it's very good what "I can even reliably one shot coursers now".
Let cavalry afraid archers. In this case all is right.
But I totally agreed with all text above my post.
P.s. flying arrows models changed? Now i almost can't see an arrow on the fly. Only 10m from me and then can't see ...
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Did some testing, seems like a 6 PD Longbow does about 40-50 damage on average to someone in 60+ total body armor. Naked, it would do about 70-74 damage. Ridiculous.
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[08:58] <@Espu> gravity bonus might kick in somehow
[08:58] <@Espu> adding extra damage
[08:58] <@Espu> dunno, have to bring it to fasaders attention
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just nerf the god throwing... thrower are the the NO1 gay class on my list...second is xbowman and then its HA.
This change to throwing just gonna make tons of ppl grabing 4 bags of throwing lances and start the spam.
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Real skill usually means shooting the same guy more than a couple times and really differentiated archers, despite the developers' stating they did this to make it more skillful, instead the opposite is occcuring.
I think archers should be able to 1 or 2 shot only those who are wearing relatively light armor. Anything past chain mail in combination with a good amount of ironflesh SHOULD provide good protection against archers.
yeh, Paul the developer explained it once a couple months back. The slower the projectile speed, the more of a boost to damage it can get from the speed bonus to damage that come from things like powerdraw or powerthrow increasing the speed.
They should reduce bow damage across the board then since I don't think armor was correspondingly buffed to compensate.
EDIT: Did I mention that my build was 18/21, and now I am working for a 27/18 build at level 33? At 30 I will still be 24/18... Do you really want 8/9PD archers taking advantage of this new insta-death short range crap that we are pretending is archery?
I have a 12pd archer right now. Tried it on seige and was pretty devastating even with the penalty.
I DO like the new arrow speeds and flight arch. It looks and feels much more realistic now. You can even see the arrow as it leaves the bow which I never really could before. I like those 2 things.
My ideas: make all bows cut damage. Make all arrows cut damage. Possibly keep bodkins as pierce and maybe increase their pierce damage as well. But make them even more expensive than they are now. Adjust damage amounts of all bows and arrows until a good balance is arrived at. Revert accuracies of bows (or maybe even a bit LESS accurate than they were before the patch).
The goal would be for archers to be good against soft targets but very ineffective against armored foes.
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A humble pincushion's thoughts;
All projectiles are powerful and terrifying now.
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Thank god im in my new appartment with crappy mobile broadband internet while waiting for the real internet to get set up i couldnt / cant play anyways.. hope this fail patch gets sorted out once my internet is up n running :mrgreen:
Cant even select my chars on the loadout screen
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http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,10067.0.html
I LOL at you, Keshian.
Not necessarily disagreeing, but don't you think you've done enough whining for this patch already?
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I personally like the new upkeep values. I'm still earning stupid money, but this may have soemthing to do with me avoiding wearing even medium armor.
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I personally like the new upkeep values. I'm still earning stupid money, but this may have soemthing to do with me avoiding wearing even medium armor.
You don't say.
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Totally in argeement with kesh. Lordly haubergeon, hourglass gauntlets, 4if, 21 str and I get 2 shot by a horn bow and pd 6. I do like the new animation and arc as previously mentioned. I didnt get a chance to use it myself as I have no archer char but I picked up and xbow and tried it with that. Its definitely different, in a good way.
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Not archer this gen so haven't tested, but it concerns me that people are saying they can't track their shots (xbowmen, archers). Hopefully that gets chalked up to learning curve of new archery..
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Not archer this gen so haven't tested, but it concerns me that people are saying they can't track their shots (xbowmen, archers). Hopefully that gets chalked up to learning curve of new archery..
Its not, the new animation makes the arrows/bolts incredibly tiny like bullets on your screen. have no idea where you actually hit to actually reorient your next shot. More of a feeling of a crapshoot with a huge damage bonus at the end, but this seems like something that should be easily fixable, if not by chadz and team, then by someone willing to put ttogether a really simple mod.
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Since cavalry get 1 shot by archers now... What counters archers!? Group archers will still have a field day with shielders...
E: Archers can't even counter eachother due to the range decrease... got to be closer....
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Since cavalry get 1 shot by archers now... What counters archers!? Group archers will still have a field day with shielders...
It sounds like the bow damage boost was unexpected and they are fixing it in the hotfix. Would like them to increase the shoot speed back up a bit, would fix a lot of the problem and also not make archery into a whole new class of throwers. Bows actually should shoot farther than a thrower, though interesting to see that throwing lances now have 149 accuracy (best bow has 101), because of course throwing a 6 foot lance is a lot easier to aim than a bow.
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Incredible. The fucking dev's are not qualified to balance anything beyond a playground seesaw. How do you fuck shit up like archer damage is increased 5x? Do you just say 'we are going to make some huge changes to both archery and armor'. Hmm should we test that? 'naw fuck it'.
Testing this shit would take literally minutes. Or in the case of the heavy lance -> great lance, literally 1 second to realize it is messed up.
I can't wait till they 'fix' archery again, everyone bails out to throwing and we end up with 80% throwers like we did 4 months ago. Of course then they will go and nerf throwing back into oblivion. Everyone will complain and the dev's will just think everyone is a bunch of cry babies instead of realizing how heavy handedly they constantly act.
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Totally in argeement with kesh. Lordly haubergeon, hourglass gauntlets, 4if, 21 str and I get 2 shot by a horn bow and pd 6. I do like the new animation and arc as previously mentioned. I didnt get a chance to use it myself as I have no archer char but I picked up and xbow and tried it with that. Its definitely different, in a good way.
I don't think they changed crossbow arcs at all, only made a bit less accurate.
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I can't wait till they 'fix' archery again, everyone bails out to throwing and we end up with 80% throwers like we did 4 months ago. Of course then they will go and nerf throwing back into oblivion. Everyone will complain and the dev's will just think everyone is a bunch of cry babies instead of realizing how heavy handedly they constantly act.
I will never stop using the bow no matter how UP or OP it is, as my main.
However, Archery Class is dead with the new speeds (wish they were a little faster), now this is an Artillery Class. Short range shooting is where it is at, or indirect trolling.
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Incredible. The fucking dev's are not qualified to balance anything beyond a playground seesaw. How do you fuck shit up like archer damage is increased 5x? Do you just say 'we are going to make some huge changes to both archery and armor'. Hmm should we test that? 'naw fuck it'.
Testing this shit would take literally minutes. Or in the case of the heavy lance -> great lance, literally 1 second to realize it is messed up.
I can't wait till they 'fix' archery again, everyone bails out to throwing and we end up with 80% throwers like we did 4 months ago. Of course then they will go and nerf throwing back into oblivion. Everyone will complain and the dev's will just think everyone is a bunch of cry babies instead of realizing how heavy handedly they constantly act.
Beans - check cRPG current version number. What does it tell you?
Now shut up and be happy that this is an open BETA.
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Beans - check cRPG current version number. What does it tell you?
Now shut up and be happy that this is an open BETA.
We are the Beta testers! :mrgreen:
It is what makes the game so interesting, hehehe
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return everything as it was!!! :twisted:
everything was fine, but you just ruined everything.
reduce damage by 1, but do not touch anything else. reduce damage by 1, but do not touch anything else.
Please return all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
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In a week I will be creating a poll with five options (Melee player hates/likes new archery, archer hates/likes new archery, don't care) just to see what people's opinions are.
As of now, this is a mess in my opinion. I have turned from a sniper, to a walking turret of death. Stay far away from me and you no longer fear me, but god help you if you wander anywhere near my MW Rus Bow now or I will blow your brains out. I can even reliably one shot coursers now, and pick apart all by myself Cataphracts. This is beyond idiotic. I also laugh at the black plate users that are going broke and are still being shot to hell.
FYI I am using standard arrows. If I were to switch to Bodkins I would lose some money, but I also notice (btw arrows break retardedly often) that I can one shot a disturbing amount of people in chain, and only my ex-warbow (now Rus bow) is MWed, not my bodkins...
TL:DR I can no longer snipe as anyone with half a brain can dodge, but come within 15 or 20 meters of me and you are a dead man walking.
EDIT: Did I mention that my build was 18/21, and now I am working for a 27/18 build at level 33? At 30 I will still be 24/18... Do you really want 8/9PD archers taking advantage of this new insta-death short range crap that we are pretending is archery?
My alt is a archer with 24/18 and I got 8 PD, I 3-4 shoot like everything with a standard horn bow
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My alt is a archer with 24/18 and I got 8 PD, I 3-4 shoot like everything with a standard horn bow
You're doing it wrong.
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You're doing it wrong.
I know "use a longbow blablabla"
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just nerf the god throwing... thrower are the the NO1 gay class on my list...second is xbowman and then its HA.
This change to throwing just gonna make tons of ppl grabing 4 bags of throwing lances and start the spam.
No shit, your a HA lol.
Edit: Time to retire to shielder and thrower.
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The lowered missile speed sucks...
My mw-longbow has a rage like a toy-bow for kids...
The max rage is only 150meters now.
The max rage of a very very good longbow could be up to 500meters in real (with special flight-arrows).
My arrows are flying like in timewarp... it looks so bad and unrealistic.
Ich hope they will give us the old missile speed back.
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Arrows Damage is back to normal, come out pure melee lets start swinging again
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RIP archers :evil: Welcome back throwers :twisted:
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Must....resist........GTXting....damn..you......horse.archers!
Seriously don't buff these guys, I don't really mind them being better as a class, but horse archers delay. More horse archers, means more delaying. I hate that every round gets extended by two minutes because a horsearcher must shoot all of his 148 arrows at a huscarl shield before he can die.
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It is necessary to return former missile speed. Speed of flight of arrows is contradiction laws of physics, chadz apparently never in life did not see flying arrows. What does he count on? Yes, archers will disappear, because to put to death nobody it is now impossible, now two-handed swords and horse will kill all with impunity. Remote resemblance of balance, which appeared in a previous patch disappeared now. Or archers will sit down on horse that to shoot from distance of two meters. chadz kill mod. Again. I in this shit will not play, will go better in Native. Sorry to bad English.
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Must....resist........GTXting....damn..you......horse.archers!
Seriously don't buff these guys, I don't really mind them being better as a class, but horse archers delay. More horse archers, means more delaying. I hate that every round gets extended by two minutes because a horsearcher must shoot all of his 148 arrows at a huscarl shield before he can die.
But I like headshotting you on round start :) Only the bad HA delay. And when you guys were complaining that they were delaying and started a vote kick, they were pounding arrows into several of you're team and weaving in and out of you and killing a few of you. Inf automatically claim delaying if it's an HA that's last, regardless of whether the other person/few people have shields or not. It's automatic inf raging.
Anyway...you won't see to many HA no if they have to be dedicated to play it properly. From what Paul said and from speaking to people who have just gone up levels since the hotfix you need 3-4 HA to actually make a difference now. 1-2 HA does bugger all. So only proper dedicated HA will be dangerous and those are the ones that won't delay deliberately.
Not that most do anyway.
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Archers were at first compelled to inlay everything in a bow, endowing all other skills. Now did their unfit for action.