cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Seawied on July 11, 2011, 04:55:35 am

Title: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Seawied on July 11, 2011, 04:55:35 am
New repair values are too punishing. Even with 20k  worth of items I'm hemorrhaging gold.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: DarkFox on July 11, 2011, 05:01:05 am
Yes, I want to see all players using poleaxes and danish greatswords...sigh...
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Matey on July 11, 2011, 05:15:30 am
i havent tried it too much, but it sounds like a lot of people with reasonable gear are going broke in a hurry, maybe its just a bit too much? i think an increase was ok, but maybe not as much?
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: DarkFox on July 11, 2011, 05:21:57 am
Where do people find such problems? I wear 28k and earning quit much :?
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Seabhac on July 11, 2011, 05:35:25 am
Just as an example a regular morningstar went from 330~ to 550~ and the top end 2 handers are around 1600 per repair, just double that for the top chest armor. Even x5 wont cover that in a round if all of your gear breaks, however for top gear that is expected I'd imagine.

Seems to me like they need to scale the repair % on items based on cost tiers. Would solve a lot of issues for those who play in a median armor/weapon tier range while still keeping upper to top end armor/weapons upkeep so expensive that players will always loose money regardless of multiplier.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Seawied on July 11, 2011, 06:10:40 am
after playing a bit more, I realized part of the problem was the new price increase on my heavy-lance. With that out of the picture and using the light lance instead, my gold was a bit more stable.

I still prefer the old system though.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Seabhac on July 11, 2011, 08:13:11 am
After playing some more I honestly believe there is a problem with the chance of repair in the patch, the patch notes state that it was lowered slightly but on the contrary it procs much much more often now.

With the following set up I have lost money over 10 or so rounds by about 1k gold. Morningstar, Nordic Fighters Helm, Light Kuyak,  Rus Calvary Boots, Leather Gloves. Which is 15,889 in total cost for the out fit, so to loose money on that sort of set up there is obviously something wrong.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Gnjus on July 11, 2011, 08:24:05 am
From what i read on the forum so far it's not worth for me to even log-in with my 200k equipment, see ya lads when they fix it, since it looks I'll lose all my money faster then if it was a full wipe instead of patch. :wink:

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Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Vibe on July 11, 2011, 08:43:56 am
It's a bit too much. Not to mention archers now hit harder, this was clearly not necessary. The repair costs were fine before patch.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Gnjus on July 11, 2011, 10:14:23 am
Btw gratz Reyiz on making it to the developers team !


Judging by all the post about high repair costs i recon they hired you to do the billing.  :wink:
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Matey on July 11, 2011, 11:10:05 am
ok, have played for awhile. with my usual setup (padded coif, light leather boots, blue gambeson, lamellar gauntlets, huscarls, grosse messer, and broad one handed battle axe; approx value of 33k) i was breaking even. not so bad, but wouldnt hurt to lower it a bit... i was rocking pretty good multis to break even. i think the old upkeep system cost and frequency was fine for 95% of items.. just needed to make some items cost more, or make some items have a more frequent break rate.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Seawied on July 11, 2011, 08:35:37 pm
ok, have played for awhile. with my usual setup (padded coif, light leather boots, blue gambeson, lamellar gauntlets, huscarls, grosse messer, and broad one handed battle axe; approx value of 33k) i was breaking even. not so bad, but wouldnt hurt to lower it a bit... i was rocking pretty good multis to break even. i think the old upkeep system cost and frequency was fine for 95% of items.. just needed to make some items cost more, or make some items have a more frequent break rate.

Pretty much this. Not sure why they saw the need to change upkeep... It worked perfectly well before.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Overdriven on July 11, 2011, 08:44:26 pm
I lost 10000 gold in 4 maps. That's with multipliers as well, often at least a x4 on a few of them. If HA are suffering, how the hell is heavier cav going to survive?
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: jspook on July 12, 2011, 01:06:09 am
I dont understand the reasoning behind making upkeep generally higher for every item in the game.
As it was stated in several threads:  Defending the upkeep change on behalf of nerfing the plate users a bit is a complete fallacy.  all that was required to do that is to increase the cost of the Plate itself.
even if the initial costs dont make a dent in your billionaire wallet, the increased upkeep (because of the increased costs) would be incremental, and the result would be a much higher drain over time.

This patch just seems to keep EVERYONE from using a decent amount of gear.  I really didnt see that many people on the field with Plate or Plated chargers these last 2 months.  So whatever the reason for this ubernerf, it cannot be because of "the overabundance of plate".

There have been several other serious and quiet nerfs that took place as well. 
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Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on July 12, 2011, 05:39:09 am
Wall of text

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please bring back the old system this one is unbalanced and the repair costs are way to high even for the rich guys.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Seawied on July 12, 2011, 08:43:37 am
Good post Hunter. Has a dev posted the new break numbers yet? I haven't taken the time to write down and figure out what the percentage the repair costs are.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: MadJackMcMad on July 12, 2011, 12:43:37 pm
Standard Loadout.

Arbalest
Steel Bolts
Fighting Axe

Kettle Helmet
Kuyak (light)
Leather Gloves
Rus Cavalry Boots

43,710 value.

The Arbalest is the most expensive piece, coming in now at 1300 abouts to repair.  I am reliably gaining money even with the increases, so I do not see an issue.  I am not generally a cynical person . . . but it strikes me that most of the complaints are coming from people who seem to believe that if they cannot wear plate every round and make a profit, then there is something wrong with the system. 

If the issue is with cavalry perhaps a system where Horse upkeep is decreased based on riding skill.  Not by too much however, it still must be more expensive than foot.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Apostata on July 12, 2011, 01:00:52 pm
They arent bunch of guys wearing plate, except Gnjus. Read more carefully. I remember when I was playing HA even low gear with horse cost around 30-35k
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: MadJackMcMad on July 12, 2011, 01:04:39 pm
Excluding you and myself, there has been 9 people posting on this thread.  Yet 41 votes for the bottom two poll options.  The conclusion of bias isn't really a leap, more of a baby step.

I remember when I was playing HA even low gear with horse cost around 30-35k

Yet I make a modest profit on 43.710 k?  Are you on the losing team constantly?  For me it was split half and half.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Apostata on July 12, 2011, 01:13:20 pm
Nay, I am not losing anything, not playing. But what I heard among all those blathering around; upkeep can be pretty dangerous from 30K upkeep above. I am considering your yesterday experience lucky.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: MadJackMcMad on July 12, 2011, 01:18:58 pm
Luck would be winning every game, not half of them.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: rustyspoon on July 12, 2011, 01:23:11 pm
Using 46k worth of gear I haven't noticed a problem. I don't make as much gold as I used to, but I'm still steadily making gold.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Apostata on July 12, 2011, 01:28:56 pm
Luck would be winning every game, not half of them.

Talking about repair trigger...
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on July 12, 2011, 06:20:13 pm
my gear costs around 21K and so far I have lost 2k, also I never have more then 40K im lucky if i have that and no i don't wear plate all the time if you see me in a server look at my gear you will see its no were  near plate.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Tzar on July 12, 2011, 08:42:32 pm
Heh i guess anything over 10k equipment is only for people with fully loomed items that are able to sell their loom points at market..... huzzaaah!!!
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Seawied on July 12, 2011, 08:53:33 pm
Just a bit of an update from me.

With the price increase on the heavy lance, my gold loadout is 28k. Since the last hotfix, which reduced the overall cost of repairs, I have been making about 2k an hour. I'd like to see the break numbers still, but it doesn't appear that the new patch's repair system is entirely unreasonable.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Pope_John_Paul_II on August 04, 2011, 04:12:58 am
in some games i find my self wearing nothing to make money so i can get newer and better items
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Sylar on August 09, 2011, 01:05:15 am
I'm wearing 22k worth of equips and my money is going down the drain FAST.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Baggy on August 09, 2011, 08:19:02 am
I'm wearing 22k worth of equips and my money is going down the drain FAST.
lies i wear 42k worth of gear now(without counting looms) and break even so you should be making shit tons of money.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Blondin on August 09, 2011, 08:56:20 am
Hey guys, i guess all of you have bought all the armors and weapons he wants to?
You all have the set of gears you want?

So why do you want more gold? For doing what?
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Vibe on August 09, 2011, 09:01:24 am
Hey guys, i guess all of you have bought all the armors and weapons he wants to?
You all have the set of gears you want?

So why do you want more gold? For doing what?

More looms!
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Chris_P_Bacon on August 09, 2011, 09:42:12 am
With a Kettle Helmet, Black Lamellar Vest, Red Wisby Gauntlets, Splinted Greaves, and a Heavy Bastard Sword (I also use a destrier and a courser occasionally) I have gained 140k gold since the upkeep patch. Also I have noticed no significant change in my personal gameplay since I switched from Heraldic w/ tabard to Black Lamellar and Longsword to Heavy Bastard (my only equipment changes since the patch). I don't mind the upkeep, doesn't seem to effect me.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Gurnisson on August 09, 2011, 09:44:08 am
Nordic Warlord Helmet
Studded Leather over Mail
Mail Gauntlets
Splinted Leather Greaves over Mail
Mace
Arbalest
Steel Bolts

Make cash at a steady pace.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Glyph on August 09, 2011, 10:52:05 am
Nordic Warlord Helmet
Studded Leather over Mail
Mail Gauntlets
Splinted Leather Greaves over Mail
Mace
Arbalest
Steel Bolts

Make cash at a steady pace.
infantry and archers are doable with the new upkeep, but what if you're cav like me? you either take a horse that's not worth it, you can't make money because you take a good horse or you take a good horse but your dead with every attack that hits you because you wear fucked up armor
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: owens on August 09, 2011, 11:19:59 am
Using 9 K gear and reguly winning my UAM (united africam militia) char is only just making cash (4K in a couple of nights). With the old system i would probably have around 7 k in the same amount of time.

On my more serious characters 19-27K is proving to be the limit. Which is stupid in my opinion, one should be able to splash out on one item in their load out or carry a full set of mid tier gear.
Before the Patch I was able to wear 50K on a very successful Cav 2H build guard armour, Great sword, Langes messer, cav shield and the list goes on that was silly but honestly this new system is far to limiting- combined with the return of throwing and hard hitting bowman it really takes away a bit of the achievement  that in the real old days was associated with saving up for new and "better" gear.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: ShinySpoons on August 10, 2011, 12:44:30 pm
I'd rather upkeep for armour be increased actually. Still way too easy to roll with a lot of expensive gear.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Hotpokka on August 10, 2011, 01:13:53 pm
Nordic Warlord Helmet
Studded Leather over Mail
Mail Gauntlets
Splinted Leather Greaves over Mail
Mace
Arbalest
Steel Bolts

Make cash at a steady pace.
That's a total 41905, tbh I don't believe that at all
I'll test it though, using this build
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: ToxicKilla on August 10, 2011, 01:47:59 pm
I lost 10000 gold in 4 maps. That's with multipliers as well, often at least a x4 on a few of them. If HA are suffering, how the hell is heavier cav going to survive?
It doesn't. I went on my champ charger, with thick coat of plates for 1 round and lost around 6k gold. I'm thinking of re-spec'ing into an archer or something for a while untill the upkeep is fixed.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Fartface on August 10, 2011, 02:02:46 pm
well i dont have any problems with the upkeep now.
i usualy wear glaive, light kuyak,nordic warlord , leather boots,mail gloves.
and i make money
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Vibe on August 10, 2011, 02:15:29 pm
well i dont have any problems with the upkeep now.
i usualy wear glaive, light kuyak,nordic warlord , leather boots,mail gloves.
and i make money

That's because your setup is about 25k gold.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Glyph on August 10, 2011, 04:24:27 pm
well i dont have any problems with the upkeep now.
i usualy wear glaive, light kuyak,nordic warlord , leather boots,mail gloves.
and i make money
that's because you aren't cavalry, stupid archers whining about losing money when they equip bodkins, bull! if you have a longbow, and 2 stacks of bodkins, you only have 22k or so on equipment, and don't say your armor costs a lot! cuz it doesn't!!! cav is losing money, archers aren't!
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 10, 2011, 04:31:24 pm
that's because you aren't cavalry, stupid archers whining about losing money when they equip bodkins, bull! if you have a longbow, and 2 stacks of bodkins, you only have 22k or so on equipment, and don't say your armor costs a lot! cuz it doesn't!!! cav is losing money, archers aren't!

Arrows act as twice the upkeep as normal. Two bodkins is about a courser 20k+
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Glyph on August 10, 2011, 04:32:30 pm
Arrows act as twice the upkeep as normal.
still, you can make a lot of money when you take the most expensive bow and arrows, even with 1 stack of arrows and a langes messer

only 35k
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 10, 2011, 04:38:34 pm
still, you can make a lot of money when you take the most expensive bow and arrows, even with 1 stack of arrows and a langes messer

only 35k

A courser is two bodkins, a heavy lance is a rus bow, and wear light armour as well and you are good to go.

But I see your point. I personally can make a wee bit of money with bodkins, I just usually use normal arrows for the increase in ammunition (54 instead of 34) and have done so since the slot system first came out.

I am unsure what to think of the new upkeep system, as making gen 1 alts and leveling them to 30 I can sustain up to 41k of gear(gen 1 so no looms to inflate cost) yet a bunch of people on the forums claim they lose money after just 21k. Maybe I get the valour thing far more often then normal, but it only comes only half the time when I lose.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Glyph on August 10, 2011, 04:43:11 pm
A courser is two bodkins, a heavy lance is a rus bow, and wear light armour as well and you are good to go.

But I see your point. I personally can make a wee bit of money with bodkins, I just usually use normal arrows for the increase in ammunition (54 instead of 34) and have done so since the slot system first came out.

I am unsure what to think of the new upkeep system, as making gen 1 alts and leveling them to 30 I can sustain up to 41k of gear(gen 1 so no looms to inflate cost) yet a bunch of people on the forums claim they lose money after just 21k. Maybe I get the valour thing far more often then normal, but it only comes only half the time when I lose.
i get your point too, but the point is(lol) that if you are an archer and you take that equipment you have the best possible, if you have 31k as cav, you are almost seen as a freaking peasent and you can't do a lot of damage(ofc there are people who can, but most can't)
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Baggy on August 10, 2011, 04:50:20 pm
i get your point too, but the point is(lol) that if you are an archer and you take that equipment you have the best possible, if you have 31k as cav, you are almost seen as a freaking peasent and you can't do a lot of damage(ofc there are people who can, but most can't)
What all you really need is a Courser/Arabian and a Heavy alnce and your good to go.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 10, 2011, 04:54:00 pm
i dunno what you are all whining about.
my equipment is worth ~80k

Great Helmet
Lordly Cuir Builli over Mail
Mail Gauntlets
Splinted Greaves
Spirited Courser
Masterwork Danish Great
Heavy Lance
(Sometimes a shitty shield)


Now i do lose gold, but its not that bad, in 1 hour i sometimes lose 5-10k yeh, but i can usually reclaim it with an hour of x5. If not if i drop to low i get cheaper equipment and grind some money. (Sometimes nice allies send me some too )
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 10, 2011, 05:00:15 pm
Wookie, what is the cost Without counting the heirloom price inflation?

My archer outfit says it is about 30k but if I calculate it only using standard prices since looms do not increase upkeep, it is actually 12k.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Glyph on August 10, 2011, 05:08:47 pm
Wookie, what is the cost Without counting the heirloom price inflation?

My archer outfit says it is about 30k but if I calculate it only using standard prices since looms do not increase upkeep, it is actually 12k.
lol, and wooki, losing 10 is a lot, maybe not in your eyes, but it is. and i don't have x5 for an hour on a daily bases, neither do you i think
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 10, 2011, 05:09:17 pm
Wookie, what is the cost Without counting the heirloom price inflation?

My archer outfit says it is about 30k but if I calculate it only using standard prices since looms do not increase upkeep, it is actually 12k.

~70k apparently, with no looms


lol, and wooki, losing 10 is a lot, maybe not in your eyes, but it is. and i don't have x5 for an hour on a daily bases, neither do you i think

yeh i do, get 20-30 shog-imeanbyzantium guys on side and watch the x5 roll in :)
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Glyph on August 10, 2011, 05:22:22 pm
~70k apparently, with no looms


yeh i do, get 20-30 shog-imeanbyzantium guys on side and watch the x5 roll in :)
damn, i want that too! :evil:
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Gurnisson on August 11, 2011, 05:40:29 am
That's a total 41905, tbh I don't believe that at all

I often get chadztext and usually help my team to good multipliers though.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: CoWorm on August 11, 2011, 06:16:26 am
Using 34906 worth of gear at the moment and no problems what so ever, only time I was sweating abit was when I bought some looms and ended up with 9k left, was abit close to 0 a few times. Other then that gain moneys over time, no problem.

Highest I've been gear wise after patch was around 39k, and still made money steadily.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Rogue_Eagle on August 11, 2011, 09:42:24 am
I was dressed in peasant clothes and using a crap sword and bow and still losing money.

My friend cant even maintain 13k worth of equipment.

SO SO SO SO SO hard for stf chars to get equipment.

When I joined this game what drew me to it was everyone running around in cool armour and carrying cool weapons. Now it just seems to be an exercise in budgeting and I can't have fun when I'm worrying about money all the time.

Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Leshma on August 11, 2011, 11:17:15 am
You're lying. I'm running aroung in rags and Great Long Axe and just yesterday I made over 50k gold. I've never lost more than 900 gold which is upkeep price for my weapon. I could maintain that with steady x1...
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Rogue_Eagle on August 11, 2011, 12:23:29 pm
no I'm not lying. Remember its all probablity based, you were probably just lucky.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Duke on August 11, 2011, 12:50:30 pm
@Leshma and @Rogue_Eagle

Rogue_Eagle also stated they use a bow, that's probably what is draining their money. 
It may be skewed observation, but my expensive items seem to break a hell of a lot more than my junk items.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: Glyph on August 11, 2011, 12:56:34 pm
with x1 you'll lose money even with 16k on equipment, but you don't have x1 on average, you have about x1.9 on average, so yes, sometimes you lose 5-0 for 3 games in a row, and that pisses me off too, but i also get x5 for 2 games pretty often, and i don't play with 20 friends that all own in a game such as wookimonster or somethin, i don't make the difference of winning or losing every game either. so just have some backup money for those "3 games of x1" occasions, and don't say you keep losing money with 15k of equipment, because it's not true, not even as an archer.
Title: Re: New repair values are much too high
Post by: MrShine on August 11, 2011, 05:01:45 pm
I've never had problems with the upkeep system until just recently, and that's because of arrows and the archery upkeep overnerf.

1h/shield during the new upkeep system was just fine: work low-mid level armor and I made money - slowly but surely over time.  Every now and then I'd don heavy armor during x4s and x5s or use a mount, and that wasn't maintainable but that's how it goes.


Then I switched to archery... and am burning through cash wearing scraps for armor, a horn bow, a decent 1 hander, and bodkin arrows. It's really the arrows that seem to kill it, for no logical reason. 

The biggest irony is that I can go horn bow 2x bodkins and a simple melee weapon and hemorrhage money, or I can go horn bow, 1x arrows, and wield a BEC or some other high end 2 hander, and I'll make money slowly.  I mean, isn't that in part what this whole upkeep thing was about, to prevent stuff like that, or at least the ease of that?

TLDR: Revert arrow upkeep cost/break chance changes, they are prohibitive and silly.