Author Topic: Leave or stay in the EU?  (Read 78749 times)

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Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #885 on: June 27, 2016, 03:54:06 pm »
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Maybe Overdriven and Tomas could tell us is post Brexit racism really a thing or just an internet hoax.

If you wan't anecdotal stuff, there is now a facebook group with a very recent accumulation of xenophobic instances. I've posted the link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/610588862443201/photos/?filter=photos

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #886 on: June 27, 2016, 04:04:08 pm »
+1
Hey Oberyn check this out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/

and check this one out this one is pretty cool as well :):):)

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:):)))) xx

Comparing apples and oranges. London is more like New York or Paris. All these other american cities on the graph are either part of the Rust Belt or incredibly sprawled out megalopolis with a much lesser population density. Of course the housing market is dissimilar. The odd one out is Silicon Valley, for obvious reasons.
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #887 on: June 27, 2016, 04:08:38 pm »
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I think the housing crisis all over Europe is a major frustration for many people. And yes it is connected to immigration in that demand is simply higher than the supply. Also, everyone wants to live in the center of big citites. The population craves coffee shops, concerts, the freedom that the big cities offer.

I do think that, perhaps a little bit boringly, that great public transport as well as government encouraging construction and development in the cities is one of the best things government can do. It doesn't matter what kind of housing, just more, more, more. The market will take care of the rest.

Of the cities I know, Berlin is by far the best in this regard. You have a fantastic, efficient transportation system. You don't really need a car, and the suburban traffic is incredibly low, considering the size of the city. It has relatively cheap housing, encouraging lots of hard working and creative young to live there. It's a place I would live, if it wasn't for all the germans! :D

As a counterexample, Lodz, where I live has cheap housing, but bad public transport and horrible traffic. These factors really limit the enjoyment of living here. While Oslo, having decent public transport, has extremely slow, expensive and rigid housing regulation, creating unfathomably high housing costs exceeding London.

High cost of housing also creates the relatively unproductive class of capitalists called Landlords, whose income is more likely to hold more productive citizens down, rather than result in competitive, risk taking, growing businesses. My uncle in Britain is one of those, owning 4-5 houses. The cheapest, greediest bastard I've ever known, who is not interested in creating wealth or developing his properties. Just to safely and surely secure himself a steady income so he could pension himself early.
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That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Paul

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #888 on: June 27, 2016, 04:14:17 pm »
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It's a place I would live, if it wasn't for all the germans! :D

Crisis averted!

Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #889 on: June 27, 2016, 04:15:42 pm »
+2
that arguement is silly though.

how can you have a plan that isnt "negotiate our exit and see where we go from then"
The leave campaign isnt the govt so they cant say what they will do because they dont have the power to do it.

Thats like me never quitting a job because i dont know exactly what the next one will be

Well that's silly, isn't it? Why would you risk so much in the face of absolute uncertainty? That goes against primal instinct, what we know about biology (so far) dictates that we are innately programmed to maximise our gains with the minimal amount of tax on our resources.

You may call it being brave, but ultimately it's an uncertain gamble. It's not right to gamble with the lives of a lot of people fueled by lies and half-truths. What do I mean by that?

1) 350 million to the NHS - confirmed half-truth.
2) Stricter control of immigration - confirmed half-truth.
3) An economically stable aftermath - confirmed lie.

When I say 'confirmed' I mean that Leave campaigner's have addressed this, and confirmed that it isn't true. Feel free to google any of those statements, and your answer should lie in the top search.

Within parliament there are 360 MPs.. 300 of which back the Remain campaign (that have declared). That leaves 60 MPs in favour of Leave, amongst which 11 have said "there was no plan for post-Brexit...that should be left to Number 10". David Cameron would rather resign than invoke Article 50, and no one is brave enough to step up to the plate. Boris Johnson is even backing down. It's absolutely incredible. 

Alex Salmond just said "there is an old saying in politics, that is: 'If you break it, you own it'. It should be up to Leave campaigners to now tell us what to do and how they are going to remedy this, instead of back peddling on their claims and waiting until the 2017 general election' (paraphrased).

We don't have a government that want Brexit, and naturally it's going to be hard for a government made up of Remainers to respect the democracy of the Leavers. It's a very very tricky situation, and I don't think we should be in this mess because a few people gambled due to misinformation in the face of economic uncertainty.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 05:37:14 pm by tizzango »

Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #890 on: June 27, 2016, 04:16:18 pm »
+2
Comparing apples and oranges. London is more like New York or Paris. All these other american cities on the graph are either part of the Rust Belt or incredibly sprawled out megalopolis with a much lesser population density. Of course the housing market is dissimilar. The odd one out is Silicon Valley, for obvious reasons.

I'm just trolling you. I googled 'random statistics' just to appease your apparent disdain of vague statistics (and rightly so).

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Such a strong correlation r = .96.. is this cause and effect?????????
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:19:44 pm by tizzango »

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #891 on: June 27, 2016, 05:10:37 pm »
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Businesses are already jumping on the falling pound issue. Cost of data equipment from our suppliers is going up next month because the pound is doing so badly. Yay.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #892 on: June 27, 2016, 05:17:15 pm »
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True for every business. The pound losing some of it's value is going to be good for exports, not so much for imports. Good thing the UK has control over it's own monetary policy and isn't bound by EU treaties, eh?
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Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #893 on: June 27, 2016, 05:33:10 pm »
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True for every business. The pound losing some of it's value is going to be good for exports, not so much for imports. Good thing the UK has control over it's own monetary policy and isn't bound by EU treaties, eh?

It's unfortunate that now we are in this existential conundrum of absolute uncertainty and confusion. It's very very hard to stabilize an economy with such a volatile market, and even more so one that has been exasperated by this Brexit uncertainty, and the worst part is that we are frozen in this unstable environment until October (at the very least) or until the next Tory leader invokes Article 50 (which theoretically could be 2020 haha)


Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #894 on: June 27, 2016, 05:54:52 pm »
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But hey, if our government is particularly fast and efficient about it we might almost end up as stable as we were in the first quarter of this year.

What an accomplishment! (and a fairly big *if*)

Did you watch the House of Commons live about 20 minutes ago?

I'm not a Tory, but David Cameron has actually been a good PM and his signing off speech was pretty solid. Corbyn's rebuttle was too much finger pointing, and SNP's Robertson was a bit too William Wallace-y (I am predominantly SNP).

I'm going to actually miss David Cameron, he's done well to recover from the recession.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 12:26:53 am by tizzango »

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #895 on: June 27, 2016, 05:58:49 pm »
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I liked David Cameron. He's pretty much hated all over the place but I thought he was decent enough. Considering his predecessors Blair and Browne he certainly wasn't bad.

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #896 on: June 27, 2016, 06:03:32 pm »
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I mostly hold Browne responsible for a lot of economic fuck ups. Selling off our gold reserves and ruining state pensions are his greatest achievements.

Offline Daunt_Flockula

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #897 on: June 27, 2016, 06:54:08 pm »
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Quote
Borrowing a line from librettist WS Gilbert: “Things aren’t always as they seem. Skim milk masquerades as cream.”

Venezuelan extremists wanting democratically elected President Nicolas Maduro ousted stacked their recall petition with hundreds of thousands of fraudulent signatures – some fake names, others deceased, as well as minors too young to vote, discrediting the legitimacy of their campaign.

Britain is following suit. Anti-Brexit proponents petitioning parliament for a second referendum so far collected around 3.5 million signatures since Friday – a red flag. This many this fast suggests something rotten.

Signatures include already discovered tens of thousands of fake names from America, Germany, France, Italy, other EU countries, even Middle East, Asian, Latin American and African nations as well as virtually uninhabited Antarctica.

Despite its population of less than one thousand, 41,118 signatures came from Vatican City as of Sunday afternoon, nearly 25,000 from North Korea.

According to a House of Commons petition committee spokeswoman, fraud is so rampant it’s already removed 77,000 signatures, likely many more to come. Perhaps most are fake.

Rest of the brief article is over here.
Just came across it. Wanted to share.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #898 on: June 27, 2016, 07:59:38 pm »
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EU leaders reject informal talks with UK

Quote
The European Union will not hold informal talks with the UK until it triggers Article 50 to leave, Germany, France and Italy have insisted.

UK is currently nowhere. They aren't out but have no say in any matter regarding EU and to extent their own future. They have to trigger Article 50 to move on, but there isn't politician in England who is willing to do so.

Offline Butan

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #899 on: June 27, 2016, 08:00:48 pm »
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Would you quit a job with nothing else lined up if you had a large number of dependents who rely on your income?

That would be irresponsible

The analogy looks cool but its a bit more complex than that when you take into account it was everyone deciding if you quit your job or not, + those who pushed the idea have no way to look for a new job.


Rest of the brief article is over here.
Just came across it. Wanted to share.

4chan and lots of trolls (me once) voted en masse, it is known.
The thing is, even discounting all the duped votes, there is way more than 100K legit signatures and the parliament will thus debate it.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 08:07:02 pm by Butan »