Author Topic: [Scrapped] NA Battle Map Roughdraft  (Read 777 times)

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Offline Auphilia

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[Scrapped] NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« on: December 27, 2011, 02:19:17 am »
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Hello citizens and lords of cRPG! First, I apologize if I am presenting this in an unfamiliar format, as it is my first map and my first post concerning maps.
I decided to challenge myself to make a total of ten balanced maps for NA Battle so that every player can enjoy cRPG without having to worry so much about unfair disadvantages. I am new to this, so you may notice fundamental mistakes in the following map. Constructive criticism is welcome. If the community recognizes this map as suitable for NA Battle, I will finish touching it up and filling it with more immersion. Without further delay, please view and comment. Thank you.
  :mrgreen:



Tactical Overview:
(click to show/hide)
This map rewards the valorous for archers, cavalry, and infantry alike.
If an archer can fight and survive with the main infantry it could obtain a very clear advantage early in the battle at the heights of the main building.
If infantry can break through or flank successfully, they too gain a great advantage either by clearing out the towers or simply denying the enemy any tactical defense.
If cavalry can fight through or around the main infantry, it could easily pick off crucial enemy support units or break the enemy's main line.

Calvary Overview:
(click to show/hide)
Here we have clear advantages and disadvantages to friendly or enemy cavalry. This map is not for any single build to dominate and each must carefully consider their options if they wish to succeed. The map is wide/open enough for cavalry to ride pretty much everywhere, but like I said, the hunter can easily become the hunted.

Early Enemy Encounters:
(click to show/hide)
The first encounters will happen in the center of the map. This will most likely be very intense combat which will branch off into secondary encounters as the infantry progress through the courtyard. You will see arrows flying, swords clashing, bold cavalry, and you will also see objective in each person's actions. Surviving this initial wave will be an exciting test of skill and awareness. This map will make you remember why you put that extra point into athletics or ironflesh.

Center Defensive:
(click to show/hide)
The center courtyard is the only place on the map that does not have vulnerable flanks and has only one entrance/exit, making it the best defense on the map. There are advantages and disadvantages here. Cavalry, although it CAN ride in there and have some decent space, will not likely advance here. It may be the best defense on the map, but it isn't the best offense. Along the top (vulnerable to archers from the towers and infantry) are clear shots at the enemy spawn on either side. The point of this area is to encourage early combat and tactics, making it less likely to have entire teams camping. If you don't press hard, you miss out on easy kills/ambushes and ultimately your team will lose.

Tower Team One:
(click to show/hide)
As you can see, these towers have clear lines of sight and would be great places for archers. To counter this, however, there is a VERY vulnerable flank that is only accessible from the ground. Infantry/archers from the tower can not jump up or access those stairs unless they climb down and reach it from ground level. The advantage of this flank is that enemy infantry can reach the top of the archer's nest and attack from both sides, if desired. If enemy archers used this flank, they would have clear shots at the neighboring tower and could easily eliminate archers. With the extreme strengths of these towers, comes the extreme weaknesses. Of course, if you did not wish to use the flank, you could still reach these towers the normal ways.

Tower Team One Alternate:
(click to show/hide)
This tower provides an excellent line of sight to the main clutter, but is powerless to the flanks and subject to the opposing towers' archers. If enemy infantry reaches you here, there is little you can do to escape. What it lacks in late-game defense, it makes up for as an early-game advantage.


Tower Team One Close Look:
(click to show/hide)
I've already gone in detail how easily flanked this tower can be, so now for its offensive value. From this tower you can control key locations on the map, notably the catwalks which would be in dire need of attention in the event that the enemy team breaks through and claims the high ground and clear shots at your spawn.

Tower Team Two Flanks:
(click to show/hide)
These towers have one of the greatest defenses on the map if unchallenged, however with a total of four blindside entry points, the enemy can easily devastate and overwhelm garrisoned troops. Even a single unit, with stealth, can do major damage sneaking through these towers and picking off the unwary.

Tower Team Two:
(click to show/hide)
These towers provide an excellent defense to garrisoned archers, however their flexibility is more limited compared to the other towers. It is best for units to focus on specific areas and draw enemy fire. Again, because of the limited view you can easily be flanked so watch your back or bring a few guards.

Tower Team Two Alternate:
(click to show/hide)
Finally, another view of the towers sights. The houses in the center provide excellent cover from all towers, if used properly.


As you can see there is no "I win" spot on this map, and there is no "I win" type of unit either. I have attempted to create a balanced rock-paper-sissors style map that pretty much forces this:

Main Infantry < Archers < Flankers < Cavalry < Main Infantry

Each build has a roll, and since players do not treat NA_Battle  as they would in strategus battles, it might be in the overall fun factor's better interest to start using maps that help influence strategy and tactics, rather than wide open fields with no cover, or mobility torture steppe abominations. 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 02:46:34 am by The_White_Lotus »

Offline zagibu

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Re: NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 03:53:13 am »
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It seems to be well-devised, but I have one aesthetic complaint already: The terrain seems to be perfectly flat. This looks very unnatural.
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Offline obitus

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Re: NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 03:57:48 am »
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The map is biased towards archers and infantry.  I'm particularly worried about camp spots with only one entrance, and rooftops with only one route to reach the top of.

I'd personally put more routes everywhere, and put ramps for cavalry.

Glad there are new maps being made!

Offline Auphilia

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Re: NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 05:57:36 am »
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Yes it is flat purposely, so that cav can play well. If I made it bumpy and stuff, then it would be biased in favor of infantry and archers. However if people like this set up, I will add more things to make it "look" better. I believe there is plenty enough room for cavalry as it is. If you mean bias in the sense that they can't kill EVERYTHING on the map then I suppose it is bias, as is any map with a building that cavalry can't climb/enter. Cavalry likes to charge in and kill everything that moves without much resistance, that can't be done on this map. Not for cav, not for archers, and not for infantry. I enjoy playing as cavalry myself, and the map being flat alone means that cav could easily do their part. The "obstacles" that might at first seem to slow cav down, also play in its advantage in the sense that infantry will not know which direction cavalry is coming from. I'm not sure what ramps would be needed for, more specifically, where they would be needed. And there are only two buildings with one entrance, the big one in the middle (which would have to be fought over) and the smallest tower (which couldn't fit a whole team if everyone decided to camp there anyways, plus they would be vulnerable to every other defense). I don't know, I'm just not following how cav would do badly in this map. Could you please give me an example?


Also, if it were necessary, I could pave the ground in stone to make it a city-ish map. (Then it would make sense that the ground is flat).
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 06:12:18 am by The_White_Lotus »

Offline obitus

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Re: NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 06:35:39 pm »
+1
The flat, featureless ground creates a heavily cavalry-biased area, and the buildings/interior/rooftop spaces create heavily infantry and archer-biased areas.

By making the contrast too great you will see matches devolve to cav vs. cav while all infantry and archers battle over the interior spaces.  This will eventually turn to a campfest in which no players want to leave the area that their build is suited for.

Ramps give cavalry access to cavalry-unfriendly areas, instead of those areas being completely inaccessible to them.  Bumps in terrain and obstacles give archers and infantry slight cover in cavalry-biased areas, instead of those areas being a deathwish for them to enter. 

With less drastic contrast, players are more likely to enter areas which aren't necessarily suited for their builds.  This promotes conflict, discouraging campfests and ending rounds quicker.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 06:39:36 pm by obitus »

Offline zagibu

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Re: NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 07:53:43 pm »
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Yes it is flat purposely, so that cav can play well. If I made it bumpy and stuff, then it would be biased in favor of infantry and archers.

...

Also, if it were necessary, I could pave the ground in stone to make it a city-ish map. (Then it would make sense that the ground is flat).

No, it doesn't have to be as rugged that it hinders cav, but a bit more interesting to look at than a prefectly flat surface.
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Offline Jacko

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Re: NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 08:00:41 pm »
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With less drastic contrast, players are more likely to enter areas which aren't necessarily suited for their builds.  This promotes conflict, discouraging campfests and ending rounds quicker.
^Spot on.

The scene is thought through, but maybe you are making things unnecessarily hard for yourself. There is no perfect balance, the less you make obvious "class defined spots", the more dynamic map you will have. Players will abuse the sheit out of stuff if you let em, like predefined class spots/lanes.

Look at a regular village map; they are, when you think about it, pretty damn "balanced" if we consider they have stuff for every class. And that comes from no balance think at all.
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Offline Auphilia

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Re: NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2011, 01:44:40 am »
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So my map is infantry bias, archer bias, and cavalry bias? Sounds balanced :P

But for real, the map is relatively small. The only places cavalry cant access are the 3 towers, which they can't access on any map using those towers. I think putting large ramps as a way into those towers would make teams more likely to camp them. I mean I understand what everyone is saying, but for some reason I am not seeing any room for what is being asked for. I mean I could make bumps and more trinkets around the place to give infantry a bit more cover from cavalry, but the way I imagine the gameplay of this map would be that camping would last very long, unless one team completely dominated (in which case the campers would be hunted down within minutes. The only place I could see people camping is the center building (which if a team did decide to camp, they would lose half of the team trying to take it anyways) and they would miss out on the towers they have easier access too. All maps, at the end of the round pretty much end up as an infantry/archer in a place cav cant get to or will have a hard time getting to. The only way to avoid that is to not give infantry or archers such a place, in which cav dominates the entire map.

I'm hoping that with the structure of this map, you will see players migrating from advantage to advantage (avoiding or being killed by cavalry constantly). As soon as one infantry steps foot in a tower you will see all the coward archers fleeing for their lives (which puts them out into the streets for cav to pick off).

Hmm, I would like to see this map tested in battle for like 2 games to see how it plays out. I'm just not convinced that it would turn into a camping fest, as all camping places are easily flanked.

Thank you guys for the constructive criticism, hopefully by a few more maps I get everything down :P
I also apologize for having a hard time understanding, I'm not trying to be argumentative.

Offline Auphilia

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Re: [Scrapped] NA Battle Map Roughdraft
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2011, 02:50:05 am »
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I messed the spawn points up, cuz I used the siege design instead of battle. I could fix it but, few people even explored the map and none of the places were used as predicted since the spawns were 20 feet away lol. I'm scrapping the map all together. I'm not going to work on it anymore. Unless people actually like the design and would want to play on it. For now I'll be moving on to making new maps. :P