I'm as of yet, undecided, however I'm shifting towards leaving after going to a debate with some MP's/former MP's from most of the political parties.
With the current government POland is gonna leave EU over the next few years.
dunno why the hell anyone elected them.500 pln social for 2nd and each next kid, Polish voters aren't most rational thinking...
As i said for the scotland thread already, i d love to see uk leaving just to able to tell them "i told you", but there's too much at stake. Would rather see uk with € and europe as a whole dealing with immigrants, not only italy and greece....in an ideal world. Alas...
Would rather see uk with € and europe as a whole dealing with immigrants, not only italy and greece.
With the current government POland is gonna leave EU over the next few years.
And join glorious Russian Federation :lol:
Poland is really that far to EU/close to Russia or just irony?
I understand the sentiment,Well, if we vote to leave the EU, chances are another referendum will be called asking the question of whether they want to leave the UK again.
I hoped the Scottish independence vote went through for the same reason. Because the shit the people living there would have to go through, the crawling back for help, it'd be remembered for generations and stop that stupid shit happening again.
Was there anything in particular in there that you found convincing?I felt like a rag doll, each party had their different points but each one was equally correct, in the end they all cancelled each other out, which made the mock vote we took part in difficult to answer.
I can recommend this speech. Starts at 2.19.
I dont have a strong feeling one way or the other, i'm sure there are genuine good reasons for each case but i've yet to hear any MPs actually mention any that make sense.
Because it's impossible to avoid, i've ended up hearing the odd debate on TV or radio between 'leave' and 'stay' advocates. Based purely on the individual's on those shows i'm tempted to vote 'stay' because the arguments of the 'leave' party have invariably pissed me off.
eg. (I dont really follow this topic or care overly-much so excuse the dumbed-down and poorly-understood content below)
'Stay guy' - If we leave EU, we will need to individually renegotiate various trade/import/export deals with EU countries, possibly at less favourable rates
'Leave guy' - Why would anyone already trading with us now not trade with us outside the EU?
'Stay guy' - Yes, but in the process of renegotiating we cannot guarantee that the same agreements will...
'Leave guy' - Nonononono. Explain to me why any country wouldnt keep trading with us if we simply left the EU.
'Stay guy' - That's not what i...
'Leave guy' - Countries want to trade with the UK, *i* dont seee any reason why trade terms would be less favourable if we have to renegotiate them from scratch, so we'll probably be fine
Makes me want to vote 'stay'. This is the kinda shit you get when parliament is full of SNP, someday we're going to run out of things to break away from xD
What are the cons for UK if it leaves? I see kinda only pro-s. EU cant really do anything about it. UK is the core part of Europe whose development and wealth is directly related to that of the entire region. Other European countries cant isolate UK. European countries cant really even talk smack about UK that much. :rolleyes:
I find it fascinating that the right wing parties who seek to secede from the EU are also those who fail to bring it forward despite most of them arguing that they want a "better EU". But ok, let the UK leave, it was always more a weight than an asset anyway. Case in point and topical, the UK's consistent sabotaging of EU fiscal regulations. European construction should have been vertical rather than horizontal, pretty much everybody agrees on that today.
More sI love youcrapers and blocks of flats.
The UK blocks many of these proposals because we all want manor-houses with large scenic gardens.
More sI love youcrapers and blocks of flats.
The UK blocks many of these proposals because we all want manor-houses with large scenic gardens.
I find it fascinating that the right wing parties who seek to secede from the EU are also those who fail to bring it forward despite most of them arguing that they want a "better EU". But ok, let the UK leave, it was always more a weight than an asset anyway. Case in point and topical, the UK's consistent sabotaging of EU fiscal regulations. European construction should have been vertical rather than horizontal, pretty much everybody agrees on that today.More a weight? How so? I guarantee you you'll have a harder time without our trade lol. (Not saying we'll actually stop trading with the EU, that's very much doubtful, and the EU would be idiotic to try that, considering how we're one of the best trade capitals that exists)
More sI love youcrapers and blocks of flats.
The UK blocks many of these proposals because we all want manor-houses with large scenic gardens.
More a weight? How so? I guarantee you you'll have a harder time without our trade lol. (Not saying we'll actually stop trading with the EU, that's very much doubtful, and the EU would be idiotic to try that, considering how we're one of the best trade capitals that exists)
But either way it's fine, the EU is more of a weight on us than anything so the feeling is mutual :)
After going through the thread I am interested in leaving the EU now - On a side note, the poll result that we had at college following the debate came out to 67% voting to stay and 33% voting to leave, interesting result. Obviously the result is only showing roughly 200 or so college students so it's far from accurate in the eyes of the entire public, but an interesting poll none the less.
Plus I herrd, not sure how true.. But some schools/colleges have been actively promoting the EU and its benefits to their students... Talk about indocrination, young minds ripe for brainrape.
Let's not forget that it is the EU that introduced the standardization of university-level course units to end the utter chaos that reigned before and spends millions every year offering funding for internships abroad. Ew.
A school/college teaching the benefits of EU is brainrape?(click to show/hide)
Isn't that kind of their job? Making sure the students understand civic issues, not to mention history and social studies.
Everyone in the UK has skin in the game so I'd be really surprised if such a pressing issue wasn't discussed in schools. Quite a bit.
Using education authority to spread misinformation would not be at all cool however.
Plus I herrd, not sure how true.. But some schools/colleges have been actively promoting the EU and its benefits to their students... Talk about indocrination, young minds ripe for brainrape.
A school/college teaching the benefits of EU is brainrape?(click to show/hide)
Isn't that kind of their job? Making sure the students understand civic issues, not to mention history and social studies.
Everyone in the UK has skin in the game so I'd be really surprised if such a pressing issue wasn't discussed in schools. Quite a bit.
Using education authority to spread misinformation would not be at all cool however.
That's actually horrible. University should be a special place, like a school for wizards. Every university should be closed shell, doing everything on its own. More things should function like that, to keep balance with interchangeable parts that make everything today. Unique traits that once made this world beautiful are dying out under pressure of standardization.
I daily thank the EU for the micro-USB-standard for phones.
Tell that to Type C!I wonder why an engineer would even come up with "Turning plug 180° too hardcore, need to make it more universal."
Edit: And lightning cables!
The whole educational system is a complete and utter atrocity to actual knowledge, basing whether someone is worthwhile hiring off of a memory game alone (That IS all exams are; a memory game.) is ridiculous. My memory isn't so good that I can remember a billion different things for one exams, so I shouldn't get the grade I worked my ass off for? What kind of a system is that.umm... wut? :lol:
The whole educational system in the UK (Idk about anywhere else) is just a disappointment and mass failure. It swaps out equality for "If you have a good memory, enjoy the good life, whereas if not, have fun with your shitty life!". It's stupid.
But it's not like it'll ever be fixed, it'll just be an endless cycle of bullshit.
umm... wut? :lol:
How is actually knowing stuff an "complete and utter atrocity to actual knowledge"?
If they ONLY promote the EU primarily, yes, it shows a political bias, and that's not something that should be taught to children. If you were to show them the negatives and benefits of each side that is acceptable; however, promoting one side without speaking about the other IS an attempt atindoctrination.influencing see also every single advert out there (It's the number one reason my College invited people from all the different parties to come and speak to us about each side in the debate)
Using the education system to implant political bias in young developing minds is a form of indocrtination. Educating people about the EU what it stands for what it does is fine, but to promote it positively instead of neutrally can be considered misleading. It's not too disimilar to a parent forcing their child to adopt their religion, I'm not trying to compare religion to the EU but it's the method that's similar. H1tler youth, cubs of the caliphate, children of the EU. EU is creating hítler caliphate children, that's a fair and balanced view of the issue, not colored at all
Indoctrination often refers to religious ideas, when you're talking about a religious environment that doesn't let you question or criticize those beliefs.I'm pretty sure no one has been expelled for presenting a rational argument against the EU. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Learning how to effectively learn is the most important skill tbh.(click to show/hide)
Learning how to effectively learn is the most important skill tbh.
I daily thank the EU for the micro-USB-standard for phones.
University is just a door to work place; one you're out its every man to himself, and most shops (even gov ones) have "unique" traits that make this world beautiful (and hateful).
It make sense to have uni be standardized because the modern world need certificates for everything, once you got them everything changes.
But really, even uni can be special places :mrgreen:
In attempt to standardize courses all over similar faculties in my country, they catered to lowest common denominator. Faculties with reputation for producing high quality students suffered because of this change. Now there is little difference between newly opened private universities and state universities in big cities. In other words, educational system of this country is now producing idiots all over the place, just because government had to pressure universities to strictly follow global politics and make changes accordingly. People on Belgrade university had to study hard individually or in groups they organized themselves, now they attend prolonged high school... team based learning, courses done in groups, awarding points for every little assignment, workshops... it is bullshit.Same in Germany.
Don't even start me on certificates...
Lack of formal education prevents you from getting a job in some areas. You can not be e.g. a doctor without an academic degree.It's a good thing I don't want to be e.g. a doctor.
Yes.
no functional brain -> leave, make bristain great again
functional brain -> mah shekels! plz no leave
I don't want to be an egg doctor either but at least having the option to is nice. Fucking up school takes possible pathways away in the later life. I don't think that's a good thing.The only option, Paul-san, as it were, is becoming a rich CEO of your own company. Don't settle for less.
And that Algarn is why we cant have any proper debates about anything
Agree with me = functional brain!!!
Disagree with me = Non functional brain!
thinking that your opinion is so smart and superior and that the other side are just morons is why we never move forwards. Both sides think the same and thus we hit stalemate
same with normal politics. Left and right both assume they know best and discount the other side as just being idiots
You don't know/realize all the consequences either I assume because its all hypothetical both sides say different things so its not easy to figure out. We have the remain campaign doing what they did in Scotland and telling us all that the UK will turn into a third world country and millions of jobs will vanish and no one in Europe will want to trade with us. Then you have the out campaign saying we will do awesome and Europe and everyone else will give us whatever we want.
The truth is probably somewhere in-between, i cant imagine Europe trying to fuck us over too badly when we buy tons of stuff from Europe, but i also cant see us getting all these amazing trade deals :P What i dont understand is why the leave campaign haven't used TTIP as a massive weapon yet and the debate seems to be only about the economy (lets face it to the man on the street the economy going up or down a couple of % means nothing and doesn't change pay).
Personally im currently in the middle, I can sway either way but if the remain campaign doesn't say anything positive about the future of the EU and just says that the UK will be crushed without it then that's more likely to sway me to the leave vote, All i hear is how bad it will be outside the EU and not how good the EU is, personally I have no interest in any kind of federal Europe or adopting the euro, but a reformed trading block with command interests and rules sounds pretty OK. Closer political union not so much but neither side is really talking about that aspect yet.
Learning how to effectively learn is the most important skill tbh.I really hate the whole "*insert famous person* Has no grades or anything1!!" argument, not everyone in the bloody world is the equivalent of someone like Bill Gates.
Then you can learn about taxes, loans and how a proper CV has to look like.
And I disagree with "it decides how your life goes" thing.
You decide how your life goes with the way you handle situations, yourself and your attitude, other people.
Besides, I am in Academia and 90% of the stuff in my studies doesn't fly into my brain by itself. I put hard work and many hours into it.
Whenever you wanna achieve something, guess what, you have to put work and time into it. Doesn't really matter if you like or not - if you want it, work for it.
It has never been different.(click to show/hide)
If Britain left it would simply go from being an EU member to an EEA member (European Economic Area) of which Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein are a part of. Those countries pay money towards the EU in order to receive the same benefits as an EU member. Only difference is they dont have a say in EU policy making/law making. Thats the whole point of why the Tories want to leave, its based off the fact that the current government do not like the Human Rights that are 'forced' upon the UK by the EU. It challenges the British sovereignty which is a load of bull. This in turn is based off of the fact that anyone who is charged under the Terrorist Act 2000, can be deported yet the Human Rights Act allows people to argue this due to the "right to family life." Its simply all about control.
Really not sure which way im going to vote as of yet, but it annoys me the amount of shit both sides are spouting, British politicians are some of the worst.
Also, stop thinking about sending your CV by post. Go to company, to the front desk, introduce yourself, ask for the possibility to personally give your CV to someone from HR. Lots of companies will appreciate the effort and initiative.
lolThen you better never become responsible in HR :wink:
Better yet, get credentials that dispense you from being a bitch. If I was said employer I wouldn't care about the person who has enough time to waste to do this.
I was afraid it would read like I was implying something.
I wasn't tho and I apologize for making it sound like I would. I was merely giving my look on 'education'.
I am too way better in verbal exams than written ones. Talking about a subject gives the opportunity to show that you understood it and merely showing that you know how to use some equation.
Nonetheless, imagine a big company hiring and getting 20 CVs a day over the course of 2 weeks. You really expect them to invite everyone to an interview? That is not practical.
Also, stop thinking about sending your CV by post. Go to company, to the front desk, introduce yourself, ask for the possibility to personally give your CV to someone from HR. Lots of companies will appreciate the effort and initiative.
There are many ways to get to places. That's what I ment with 'how to handle situations, yourself and your attitude, people'.
Right now your just blaming others for you not getting better grades and how you will not get your dream job.
The Human Right i was referring to was the right to family life which Teresa May herself was opposing in relation to deporting terrorists, thats the point I was talking about. The UK want their own Human rights and are creating their own version in preperation for the UK leaving the EU. The main point behind the Tories 'out,out,out' movement is the ECHR becoming too controlling over British SoverignityOh, my apologies, I must have misinterpreted :o
I don't know what has been said there and in what capacity. I don't claim to. Yeldur has the best idea of us three, and it apparently was a debate with both sides well present at his school.
I'll bite on the neutrality argument though; If the EU just has more benefits than disadvantages, should schools still balance their teaching of the EU as if it was a +-0 affair? They should only be allowed to speak of a positive if they can also find an equal and opposite negative to EU membership?
Wouldn't that be a bias in itself?
Also would it be indoctrination to teach kids about the big bang without mentioning God? And Vishnu? And maybe a couple of others? And what about equal time!?
I'm pretty sure no one has been expelled for presenting a rational argument against the EU. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
See also: The lifelong process of inheriting and disseminating norms, customs, values and ideologies, providing an individual with the skills and habits necessary for participating within their own society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization
Learning how to be a part of society.. YE GODS STOP DOING THAT TO OUR CHILDREN. YOU ARE LITERALLY HÍTLER.
Learning how to effectively learn is the most important skill tbh.
Then you can learn about taxes, loans and how a proper CV has to look like.
And I disagree with "it decides how your life goes" thing.
You decide how your life goes with the way you handle situations, yourself and your attitude, other people.
Besides, I am in Academia and 90% of the stuff in my studies doesn't fly into my brain by itself. I put hard work and many hours into it.
Whenever you wanna achieve something, guess what, you have to put work and time into it. Doesn't really matter if you like or not - if you want it, work for it.
It has never been different.(click to show/hide)
Onlymediocrepoor people are limited by their education or lack thereof, Paul.
Fixed. Having a functional brain doesn't require you to sit for hours, listening to some blabbering that is more or less interesting. I'm going to know soon if I have my first university year in english, and god knows that the courses were a joke, it's more like general culture for the biggest part of it. Even if having a degree is gratifying, only you can decide if it was worth it, considering you can probably become someone in life even without a degree. The example I'd like to point out, was the gendarmerie sub-officer test whose I managed the written part "far" above the others (12, 13, and 17 out of 20 on the tests), with only my "poor" A grade.
NB: I think science degrees are simply more important (and far more useful) than poor useless english degrees, don't get me wrong.
Also to add as a low educated highschool dropout O_O
I repeat.
Using the education system to implant political bias in young developing minds is a form of indocrtination. Educating people about the EU what it stands for what it does is fine, but to promote it positively instead of neutrally can be considered misleading. It's not too disimilar to a parent forcing their child to adopt their religion, I'm not trying to compare religion to the EU but it's the method that's similar. H1tler youth, cubs of the caliphate, children of the EU.
Incase you missed it the first time.
EU has the potential to become strong country, but it is full of cucks and will never become superpower.
It shows, it really does.If this means it differentiates me from you, I take it as a compliment.
EU cucksWhite Americans also have a rich history of cuckoldry, regrettably. It would be a bad end game for Europe to end up with a multi-ethnic society based off America's.
It would be a bad end game for Europe to end up with a multi-ethnic society based off America's.
Degrees no longer carry the weight that they used too. In the UK unless you study a 'specialised' degree, such as Medicine, Law etc you will find it difficult to find a job immediately after uni. It's expected of students to find a job 6months after leaving uni, however the percentage rate for the amount of students that successfully do that aren't as high as they used to be. In the UK experience is what fills the job market, if you don't have experience but have a degree you will find it hard to go straight into a job, even more so if its in line with what you studied in some cases. If you have experience and no degree, experience carries more weight in a vast amount of job sectors than that of degrees.
Luckily I worked full time before i went to uni so i've got experience and (hopefully) very soon a good degree, yet the job i'm entering doesn't require either. But experience will help much more than a degree in the long term. The only reason I got a degree was for job security, yet even that's not the safest bet anymore in the UK market. The entire system has been flawed for several years now, but it's what people have got to work with.
USA has had to deal with the problems Europe barely had to yet, and its doing arguably not too badly.My point being that white guilt and other forms of cultural masochism is a general western, post-colonial problem, not only European, and that America in light of its not too distant history of slavery and racial segregation (and wars around the globe more recently) suffers a lot for this in society as a whole. As does Germany from WWII, or the British or the French for their vast empires, or any of the former colonial or imperial powers (only in the west though, Turkey for example is exempt), even if ethnically European cultures were the first in history to ban slavery or even begin thinking about enforcing universalist principles like basic human rights. Historically, many of the colonies didn't just suffer but also benefited, it was not all Belgian Congo, and certainly the world has benefited from western ideas immensely since, including the people crying white privilege at every opportunity.
Its as if everything has become much clearer!
White Americans also have a rich history of cuckoldry, regrettably. It would be a bad end game for Europe to end up with a multi-ethnic society based off America's.
Indeed, when you compare me to say.. Molly.. You're comparing an unindocrinated mind to an indocrinated mind..It actually is very much about education... obviously... :lol:
It actually is very much about education... obviously... :lol:
It actually is very much about education... obviously... :lol:
My point being that white guilt and other forms of cultural masochism is a general western, post-colonial problem, not only European, and that America in light of its not too distant history of slavery and racial segregation (and wars around the globe more recently) suffers a lot for this in society as a whole. As does Germany from WWII, or the British or the French for their vast empires, or any of the former colonial or imperial powers (only in the west though, Turkey for example is exempt), even if ethnically European cultures were the first in history to ban slavery or even begin thinking about enforcing universalist principles like basic human rights. Historically, many of the colonies didn't just suffer but also benefited, it was not all Belgian Congo, and certainly the world has benefited from western ideas immensely since, including the people crying white privilege at every opportunity.
And that's of course only if we accept the premise that past sins of a small minority of our ancestors have anything to do with us today, which of course is nonsense and shouldn't be acceptable to anyone, even the most fanatical SJW would be hard-pressed to find anyone from any culture who hasn't had oppressors in their family line if you go back far enough. It's a human condition and 'white people' were just better equipped to winning wars than anyone else in the last few centuries.
My point being that white guilt and other forms of cultural masochism is a general western, post-colonial problem(click to show/hide)
Your educational system has clearly failed you, I am sorry.
a good sprinkle of Christian slave-morality/original sin.
Denmark and Sweden had colonies, though they play little role in the guilt complex at least in Denmark. We had colonies with slave plantations both in the West Indies and in India. Sweden's white guilt mostly stems from them being very keen on racial ideologies in the late 19th and the first half of the 20th century, and preachy political feminism since the 60s. Denmark were also more or less a collaborator of Das Dritte Reich. But mostly it comes from just being part of western culture, Denmark happily joining wars in the ME as American allies, and bad conscience having good, stable societies when so much of the world hasn't, altruism founded in universal human rights spiced up with a good sprinkle of Christian slave-morality/original sin.
Another source for this, I think, and that goes for all western nations, is that many 'intellectuals' and dilettantes think they sound very learned and are identifiable with people of integrity if they dare criticize themselves while displaying selective tidbits of historical knowledge.
White Americans also have a rich history of cuckoldry, regrettably. It would be a bad end game for Europe to end up with a multi-ethnic society based off America's.
In a way I would say the "progressives" of today are much better christians, or at least more faithful to the underlying ideology, than almost any that came before them. That's not a compliment either.
Yeah, like all those educated heads of states running their countries into the ground.. A good education is a great thing, if you know how to use it. If you use it as some sort of badge of superiority while generally displaying a lower intellectual ability, it doesn't really amount to much. What a world eh? Plastic education, plastic politicians, plastic society full of plastic people.
Even understanding how North Koreans think can be very valuable in developing strategy on how to deal with this little nation that's conducting tests with nuclear weapons, working hard at their miniaturization and trying to develop intercontinental ballistic missiles to fit them on.
Thats what all the uneducated bunch of angry people think. The general problem with uneducated people is that they dont know how little they actually know. And that causes them to quite often overestimate their own mental capabilities and underestimate the value of true education. Thats why you generally hear the "education is worthless" claim from people who have none. :lol: The value of education does vary a lot, but it sure as hell isnt worthless. Unless you majored in history in the Soviet Union or North Korea.
I'm finding it quite hilarious how this thread turned from leaving or staying in the EU into this >_<
I don't have any problems with it, just strange how like an actual irl conversation goes.
Not that what I am about to mention is very relevant, but I once checked how many people live in North Korea, and it's not that little - 25 mil. And in case of an invasion, they would draft, as mr. Oldman put it:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Doubt that will happen anytime soon, because that would be an act of aggression not just against Russia but against China as well and USA can't afford that atm. They never could, otherwise they would seriously arm South Korea decades ago.
Edit: When I think about it, Russia/China being "enemies" aren't the only problem. Japan would protest as well.
Doubt that will happen anytime soon, because that would be an act of aggression not just against Russia but against China as well and USA can't afford that atm. They never could, otherwise they would seriously arm South Korea decades ago.
Edit: When I think about it, Russia/China being "enemies" aren't the only problem. Japan would protest as well.
The main "reason" is that they don't have any oil
(click to show/hide)
"Thats what all the educated bunch of arrogant people think. The general problem with educated people is that they dont know how little they actually know. And that causes them to quite often overestimate their own mental capabilities and underestimate the value of true intellect. Thats why you generally hear the "education is everything" claim from people who have one.
But that's also partially true. Academic degree doesn't prevent from being... well, not very smart. There's plenty of people with PhD or professorship who act like morons.
Thats what all the uneducated bunch of angry people think. The general problem with uneducated people is that they dont know how little they actually know. And that causes them to quite often overestimate their own mental capabilities and underestimate the value of true education. Thats why you generally hear the "education is worthless" claim from people who have none. :lol: The value of education does vary a lot, but it sure as hell isnt worthless. Unless you majored in history in the Soviet Union or North Korea.I'm under the influence that education is an important thing, however, the system of education available to me doesn't work for me.
Doubt that will happen anytime soon, because that would be an act of aggression not just against Russia but against China as well and USA can't afford that atm. They never could, otherwise they would seriously arm South Korea decades ago.
Edit: When I think about it, Russia/China being "enemies" aren't the only problem. Japan would protest as well.
I'm under the influence that education is an important thing, however, the system of education available to me doesn't work for me.
I guess I'm just the odd one out that gets fucked in the ass by the system then :x
Of course Molly, no such thing as indoctrination in higher learning. It's all incredibly objective and rational, every last discipline.You actually wrote the word correctly. +1 for that.
It's a good thing that I haven't been stating education is worthless because I was starting to get the impression that you are trying to imply that I am thick. On the flip side however.
.....
"Thats why you generally hear the "education is everything" claim from people who have one"
You have to justify your student loans somehow, even if it means you end up stacking shelves or taking calls next to mr uneducated.
Also...
"Thats what all the uneducated bunch of angry people think."
Over generalising is generally considered an intellectual weakness.
But that's also partially true. Academic degree doesn't prevent from being... well, not very smart. There's plenty of people with PhD or professorship who act like morons.
is what you mean'tYes, because they invaded Iraq just so China could get oil.
Most of us are being fucked by the system, some of us just don't know it, and some of us are aiding and abetting those doing the fucking so naturally would want to defend the status quo. Fact is the global economy is crumbling and tensions with Russia and China are increasing. This is a world ran by educated people. So, who has the education system really failed? You? Me? Or the majority?
Wow, this thread went full retard. The only thing I said, is that people having a degree aren't necessarily smart, and vice versa. Of course, it's rare that people are dumbasses if they're properly educated/have a degree, but it happens. People, on the other hand, who didn't work or whatever to have a degree, aren't necessarily dumb; they can be lazy, not motivated, procrastinators, etc.. There are plenty of things that don't go accordingly to plans. Plus, realize that a world dominated by people who aren't educated is just going to set us back to middle ages, people with scientific education (and ethics) ARE needed. It is because people are uneducated they are willing to elect populists, create conflicts, start wars, etc., do not forget any of this. Do not believe that the basic ISIS fighter had a proper education, nor the basic Trump voter.
But with those sillyass edits you just generalized. Big time. Was even kinda cringeworthy. If you didnt state that education is worthless than what was your point? Because we kinda understood it like that.
And ending up stacking shelves next to mr. Uneducated is practically inevitable for mostly everybody, even if you got a degree. Economy shifts rapidly, some fields go, some fields change, some fields come. Neither you, the state nor the uni can predict it fully.
Ofcourse it doesnt. A persons worldview can always get in the way of his capability to accept proven facts. Thats just how people are. No degree is ever gonna change that.
Would the world in be in a better shape if it was ran by uneducated men though? Put Trump on the reins and everything would really be as great as he claims everything he touches becomes?
China would stop wanting to be a superpower and fall in line? Russia would become a best friend if we only had more uneducated men in charge?
I don't think it's fair to blame education for not having solved all the hard problems of the world already.
What's "indocrtination"
Not with Google Chrome, they're not.
"Indoctrination is the process of forcibly inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine) by coercion.[1] Conspiring institutions such as police and mental hospitals have been widely used as a modus operandi of indoctrinators.""Homosexuality (from Ancient Greek ὁμός, meaning "same", and Latin sexus, meaning "sex") is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between members of the same sex or gender. As a sexual orientation, homosexuality is "an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions" to people of the same sex."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination
"Homosexuality (from Ancient Greek ὁμός, meaning "same", and Latin sexus, meaning "sex") is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between members of the same sex or gender. As a sexual orientation, homosexuality is "an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions" to people of the same sex."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality
I love seeing Xant going through each of its phases now and then.
Today its Xant dictionary, what will he be tomorrow?
Xant dictionary nowWell said, nothing to add.
Then tomorrow will be seeing through
Each of its phases
My amateur numbers are just as good as your government body estimates? No, better!
And they show we'll clear our national debt just by leaving the EU!
Hooray, this guy should be responsible for all our finances!
Furthermore the fact that this man was able to math up these numbers proves that our treasury is lying to us. (As per the Youtube "Smashes the Treasuries lies in 60 seconds!" description.)
I'll give it that it's a positive message (aside from the we can't trust the government one bit part of it) and this guy is probably smart, but you can't deny that it seems a tad silly if you take a step back.
Well he seems like an educated bloke, but who am I to judge?
Ah yes because we can always trust our governments..
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/4g43qq/what_person_or_brand_was_forgiven_way_too_easily/
From the second top comment and its replies.
More positivity shown than the bremain project fear campaign, at least and if he's right it also counters the project fear claim that the U.K will be financially worse off after a brexit.
Educated is a swear word now?
I don't see your point. Governments should be held accountable for what they do. How does that tie to this?
How does one deed of a past government of a different country implicate this treasury? Isn't this the same generalization pitfall that you railed against a few posts ago?
No educated is not a swear word.
The more that power is centralised into a political entity whos president has not been directly elected by the electorate of individual member states, and is not possible to be held directly accountable by individual member state's electorate then it's arguably less democratically accountable, antidemocratic.
Also, the point you make of me apparently generalising about the conduct of current governments based on that of past governments is irrelvent. It's irrelevent because the conduct of current governments have already undermined much of the trust their populace had in them prior to being elected, and this is for numerous reasons, breaking election campaign promises being the least concerning.
I'm glad you think so.
Would you also support breaking the UK into smaller pieces that could be even more democratic than now? Is the most important point to maximize democracy? There is some point to the democratic deficit consideration of EU though.
I think the electoral system needs to be rebuilt around a platform of proportional representation, but I do not support the breaking up of the United Kingdom. That said, I still support peoples democratic right to self determination should they choose it.
Concerning the economic argument, be mindful that both Switzerland and Norway, through the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), are not in the EU but have exactly the same terms of trade as do member states.
The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is an intergovernmental trade organisation and free trade area consisting of four European states: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland.[1] The organisation operates in parallel with the European Union (EU), and all four member states participate in the EU's single market.[2]
It was established on 1 January 1994 following an agreement with the European Community (which had become the EU two months earlier).[27] It allows the EFTA-EEA states to participate in the EU's Internal Market without being members of the EU. They adopt almost all EU legislation related to the single market, except laws on agriculture and fisheries. However, they also contribute to and influence the formation of new EEA relevant policies and legislation at an early stage as part of a formal decision-shaping process.[28] One EFTA member, Switzerland, has not joined the EEA but has a series of bilateral agreements, including a free trade agreement, with the EU.
No educated is not a swear word.
....
Nobody here still understands what your point about education was. I swear man, do you even understand the point of your own gibberish? :lol:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association#Free_trade_agreements
Concerning the economic argument, be mindful that both Switzerland and Norway, through the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), are not in the EU but have exactly the same terms of trade as do member states. This is somewhat incorrect, for example rules of origin for trade which are meaningful for tariffs are different for EU and EFTA members.
"The process of adapting to rules of origin-based duty-free trade under a new UK-EU free trade agreement would be tedious, costly and disruptive to trade."
Trade Policy Research Centre
http://tprc.org.uk/media/PDF_documents/Rules_of_Origin_in_EU_FTAs_-_February_2012_-_FINAL_c.pdf
These negotiations resulted in a total of ten treaties, negotiated in two phases, the sum of which makes a large share of EU lawhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#Treaties
applicable to Switzerland. The treaties are:
Bilateral I agreements (signed 1999, in force 1 June 2002)
Free movement of people
Air traffic
Road traffic
Agriculture
Technical trade barriers
Public procurement
Science
Bilateral II agreements
Security and asylum and Schengen membership
Cooperation in fraud pursuits
Final stipulations in open questions about agriculture, environment, media, education, care of the elderly, statistics and services.
The EEA agreement grants Norway access to the EU's internal market. From the 23,000 EU laws currently in force,[2] the EEA has incorporated around 5,000 (in force)[3] meaning that Norway is subject to roughly 21% of EU law. This arrangement facilitates free movement of goods, capital, services and people between the EU and EFTA members including Norway.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#European_Economic_Area
I could count at least two, yourself included.
I was implying that education may have played a positive role in that mans ability to deduce that leaving the EU would be better for Britain's finances.. So instead of taking a wholly negative view toward education/education systems I thought I'd be a little more balanced.
I have to actually spell that out to you?... Of course I had to. Who am I kidding?
Well...yeah, you have to spell it out. That shit makes no sense even if you do. And you are Murmillus after all, you are more braindead than I am. :lol:
Well...yeah, you have to spell it out. That shit makes no sense even if you do. And you are Murmillus after all, you are more braindead than I am. :lol:Nah, Murmi's MO is to agree with everything that fits his narrative while everything else is wrong.
Nah, Murmi's MO is to agree with everything that fits his narrative while everything else is wrong.
All while he calls us 'indoctinated' sheep :lol:
Educated people agreeing with his terms are actually smart while educated people who are contrary to his 'truth' are st00pid.
Simple really.
ugh, ultra-right wing idiots won in Austria first time after 1945, next years are going to be really shitty :?
Schools indoctrinate pupils.
Universities indoctrinate students.
Government indoctrinates people.
Oh, and look, there is one single random guy in TV who sounds smart but I know nothing about his actual background, yet I agree with him, so he has to be gud.
This is your 'balanced approach'? :lol:
And yes, status quo of failure. Poor UK always suffered from being part of the EU since ever really. Never had any benefits being in it... QQ
ugh, ultra-right wing idiots won in Austria first time after 1945, next years are going to be really shitty :?
Me braindead? You're like a low functioning autist calling non autists stupid. Your inability to come to simple conclusions with a wealth of information infront of your eyes is evidence of this.
ugh, ultra-right wing idiots won in Austria first time after 1945, next years are going to be really shitty :?Good on Austria. Patriotic populism is gaining ground everywhere. Especially after Merkel's hopeless "everyone's welcome" in a Europe with something like a Schengen agreement (which is now basically dissolved) and almost a billion people wanting to emigrate worldwide according to Gallup. Calling them ultra-right wing is stretching it, though, it's classical national conservatism.
ugh, ultra-right wing idiots won in Austria first time after 1945, next years are going to be really shitty :?
Good on Austria.
Falka, try not to confuse Polish right-wingers with what is happening in the west, from what I can see from your country's political scene it's far more benign here, at a completely different stage and not yet taken to hysterical extremes. Please remember that in many of these states that now have a reawakening national identity has been near non-existent. I see it as a balancing act.
Good on Austria.
Yeah, here in Poland right wing party is ruling already. They're awesome, truly awesome :|
it's far more benign here, at a completely different stage and not yet taken to hysterical extremes.
There is something inherently wrong with voting system and parliamentary system in general.
We can only hope. This peace craze has been going on for far too long.
Is it time for round three already?
We can only hope. This peace craze has been going on for far too long.
has been near non-existent.
What's a good amount of national identity for everyone to boast though? Right before a world war? There was certainly a balance back then, in the sense of whole nations walking a tightrope over a chasm.
Is it time for round three already?
Yes yes, of course, only western nationalism is dangerous. Just ignore the fact that the entire rest of the planet has had nationalism and variety of other tribalistic identities forever too, and will continue to have them. We must not be nationalistic, otherwise it's WW3 incoming. As soon as a western nation shows the slightest inkling towards collective identity we might as well start up the gas chambers again.Just ignore that most of that rest of the world is kinda a big ass shithole.
Yes yes, of course, only western nationalism is dangerous. Just ignore the fact that the entire rest of the planet has had nationalism and variety of other tribalistic identities forever too, and will continue to have them. We must not be nationalistic, otherwise it's WW3 incoming. As soon as a western nation shows the slightest inkling towards collective identity we might as well start up the gas chambers again.
Just like the Scotland vote,
The 'leave' party is playing nearly entirely on trying to get people to vote with their hearts not their heads like with Scotland, chasing some ridiculous notion of former glory.
The 'stay' party is sprouting so much bullshit about the negative impact this will have on the average person's life that it's hard to see what the genuine fallout would be (if any) for the average person.
Lol. Wealth of evidence and information? Really now?
You can basically staple everything as evidence these days and jump to simple conclusions based on every action, commited by every country, government and person of power. And the informationpile of everybodies simple conclusions from which you will also do simple conclusions of your own is so large that one cant even detect garbage in it anymore. You cant even prevent yourself from spreading garbage, because of that. Thats why you are here. Spreading garbage. Because not you, nor anyone else can see it anymore.
And how does having autism prevent me from being right? I never really understood that. You do know what autism is right?
Your analogy explains why its bad itself though. If you justify the re-awakening of various european nationalism by the nationalism agression of other groups, there could be no end to it. You must certainly see that humanism > nationalism?
Nationalism is a natural reaction from external agression, and a good ideological obstacle to incompatible values; but it is also going to encourage xenophoby and could break regions apart.
Gotta watch out and not overdo it; but IMO there is no basis for a WW3 atm, there is just no justifications to re-assert age old claims upon our western neighbours. The only potential hot zones are Ukraine and Balkans. And of course middle east but our modern western armies can crush them any time of the day.
Anyway, using WW3 fear as an argument against nationalism is counter-productive and asinine, even more so from the point of view of the people welcoming nationalism tendencies.
hysterical extremes (whatever it means)?Hysterical as in emotion-based and not rational. Again, what I see happening in Poland certainly has its differences compared to Germany.
What's a good amount of national identity for everyone to boast though? Right before a world war? There was certainly a balance back then, in the sense of whole nations walking a tightrope over a chasm.National identity gives cohesion in the nation state, a political entity which have been a huge success, historically. It shouldn't always be viewed as an ideological -ism, ie. 'nationalism', really what it is is a natural policy of sovereign states, first and foremost trying to do what is best for the people within said states, what they are law-bound to do by terms of their national constitutions. Conserving what is worth conserving about ideas and culture. Requiring some degree of homogeneity. Even humble pride in what is worth being proud of is a good thing that increases contentment and social capital, studies show, making the 'proud not to be proud' echoing in some sectors of the German electorate even more self-defeating.
Is it time for round three already?
You must certainly see that humanism > nationalism?
Yeah, it's the lack of nationalism that made the industrial and information age happen. Just imagine if South Korea and Japan were just like us ideologically, their HDI would be off the charts! Because of course their current HDI has nothing to do with functional economies and political systems, it's all about how tolerant you are of "diversity". A+ logic as usual.
Just ignore that most of that rest of the world is kinda a big ass shithole.
Correlation or causation?
Readin comprehension /facepalm
helloAs in the context of parliamentary representation in said countries.
Must I? If I saw any other cultures and nationalities forging headlong into the same idealism, I might be slightly more comforted. And I most certainly did think like this, before I actually went out into the world and had firsthand experience with completely different cultures. As it is the only people who hold these views in any significant proportions are westerners, and it's inevitably the ones who are also arrogant enough to think their mores and values are not only universal but self-evident and inevitable for all humanity. What I see is that humanist principles continue to benefit mostly people who absolutely do not stand for them at the expense of those that do. And it's justified as some sort of sick evangelism, as a "moral duty", as a burden we must collectively bear, a step leading to a better world. I just see it as pure weakness, and so does the entire rest of the planet.
Yes yes, of course, only western nationalism is dangerous. Just ignore the fact that the entire rest of the planet has had nationalism and variety of other tribalistic identities forever too, and will continue to have them. We must not be nationalistic, otherwise it's WW3 incoming. As soon as a western nation shows the slightest inkling towards collective identity we might as well start up the gas chambers again.
Regarding this war scenario you present, WWIII in Europe is very hard to imagine, made almost impossible since 1951 with the European Coal and Steel Community. And even sentiment, in fact Europeans have never been closer. We should be more worried about the ME and India-Pakistan.
National identity gives cohesion in the nation state, a political entity which have been a huge success, historically. It shouldn't always be viewed as an ideological -ism, ie. 'nationalism', really what it is is a natural policy of sovereign states, first and foremost trying to do what is best for the people within said states, what they are law-bound to do by terms of their national constitutions. Conserving what is worth conserving about ideas and culture. Requiring some degree of homogeneity. Even humble pride in what is worth being proud of is a good thing that increases contentment and social capital, studies show, making the 'proud not to be proud' echoing in some sectors of the German electorate even more self-defeating.
But of course nothing is black and white, especially not in politics, as we have to watch out for the extreme left we also have to watch out for the extreme right, but just calling national conservative parties xenophobes (as does Der Spiegel repeatedly, what I otherwise considered a serious newspaper), or idiots or n.a.zies as do some here, polarizes the issues even further and spills into the hands of extremists.
Let us also not act surprised that the reemergence of national politics in Europe is a reaction not a cause.
You should anyway!
You seem to think that humanism is always weak, but it can be agressive.
When I say humanism > nationalism, I do not mean that we must all love each other and pray for a better tomorrow; but working toward a future where the various nationalism are removed in favor of one culture, human.
I believe thats where we are headed mechanically, the "rest of the planet" is just a pocket of resistance that will be pervaded just like the rest. How and when is the real question! There's also the question who will survive? But thats really obvious to me, I do not fear any Caliphates taking over my beloved western countries like some stupid nationalists with an agenda.
Yes yes, of course, only western nationalism is dangerous. Just ignore the fact that the entire rest of the planet has had nationalism and variety of other tribalistic identities forever too, and will continue to have them. We must not be nationalistic, otherwise it's WW3 incoming. As soon as a western nation shows the slightest inkling towards collective identity we might as well start up the gas chambers again.
National identity gives cohesion in the nation state, a political entity which have been a huge success, historically.
first and foremost trying to do what is best for the people within said states
what they are law-bound to do by terms of their national constitutions
Nope, I didn't present that.I thought writing 'Is it time for round three already?' as presenting a scenario where that could happen.
But you know what was said right before the Great War? "The economical interconnectedness of our nations has made war impossible." And again before World War 2, "war would be impossibly costly". And it happened anyhow.Yes, I've always found the pre-war optimism a lesson to take to mind. My point was that it's far less likely today than then, for a number of reasons.
We ignore history at our own peril.
Social capital and "contentment" are both nice things to have, though how absolutely necessary they make this homogeneity, I don't know. People simply can't be happy if they aren't surrounded by people just like them? Surely that's not your argument?Of course not, I wrote 'some degree'. There's been a good deal of science done in these areas in psychology and sociology, that too much diversity (especially of the non-benign type such as with a greater degree of cultural clashes or fundamentalist religion in a secular society) brings a decline in social capital. Look at social development at large among western nations, the generally happiest, safest, least corrupt places are the smaller, homogenous nation states. That doesn't mean there isn't any new ideas from the outside or no foreigners, there is no reason to think any of us here deal in absolutist terms.
All nations don't share a single constitution, I don't know where you live and how law-bound your government is to preserve the current snapshot of your culture.I've never said they did. What I'm referring to is a social contract which is included in some form in most western constitutions. To surrender some freedoms in exchange for protection of some rights. I'm also not talking about a snapshot of my culture, I'm talking about governments addressing well-documented problems for example posed by the largest wave of non-western immigration in Europe's history.
Not a cause in itself? Voting populists in power looks like a shortsighted reaction to me.Populism isn't all demagoguery, often it is also the will of the people being heard and can lead to positive changes. I don't see how it is shortsighted if it actually leads to laws being passed dealing with some of the issues clearly at people's minds.
lolYou seem to think I'm saying 'government' every time I say 'nation state', and that seems to clash with your political views. I'm talking about the nation state as a political entity, what it is on paper. No one is imagining this jungle law world without any cooperation, broad alliances and friendship between states with everyone only out for their own, please let us keep the conversation rational.
kek
An invention of the european enlightenment. It's no wonder that most democratic constitutions boil down to essentially the same basic rights and impose limits on the power of the nation-state.
The reality is, having hundreds of competing states on a single earth with basically the same level of will to cooperate for the good of everyone as the average DayZ player is a horribly inefficient, and since the invention of nuclear weapons, downright suicidal way to organize our lives. Trying to rationalize government might be idealistic, but so is hoping that we have any chance to deal with global warming or the other dozen global problems with the same power structure as people who believed in sea monsters.
You seem to think I'm saying 'government' every time I say 'nation state', and that seems to clash with your political views.
I'm talking about the nation state as a political entity, what it is on paper.
No one is imagining this jungle law world without any cooperation, broad alliances and friendship between states with everyone only out for their own, please let us keep the conversation rational.
Ah yes, how "decent" of a person you feel yourself to be, truly the most important thing to take into account when considering geopolitics. Virtue signaling that you are a "good" person by repeating mantras of devotion to the wishful thinking One World Culture goal and the boundless peace and prosperity it is prophesized to bring is really essential. The details can take care of themselves.
Dang, if you think about what a decent human being Kafein would have become if he was only born French. Sad.
Just to be clear, you're using FIFA as an example of how you think things should be settled on an international level? That is amusing. So, an oligarchy where even the pretense of representing the people that put you in power is absent in favour of a paternalistic contempt for the poor dumb inferior brutes who just can't see the bigger picture, and must have their choices made for them by a morally enlightened pseudo-nobility. Ignoring of course the ridiculous inneficiency, lack of checks and balances and corruption that comes from such a system.
In any case, as a "belgian", a "country" where a national sense of identity has always been either non-existant or completely artificial and supported by no discernable native group, I understand why you think nations are irrelevant. The destruction of an identity that never existed in the first place (not in the critical theory sense, where that is true for every single collective identity, but literally never existed) is not exactly a challenge, and given your "country"'s role as the geographical embodiment of the EU it's not surprising it was accomplished so quickly.
So the whole point with the EU was to stop the endless bickering and power politics between European nations, and actually create a framework for free trade. Look at how Russia deals with with trade/diplomacy to get an idea how it was. Basically and endless and absurd tit for tat. Perhaps that is more fair in the end, but it's also a monster destroying predictability and general smoothness of trade. The result is often non-trade, and much much worse than being in a union where the rules are established.
About removing people further from power, corruption etc, this can be true. (Although I haven't heard much about Brussels being so corrupt..) The problem with EU is rather powerlessness and sluggishness when it comes to handling issues that require immediate attention like the refugee crisis. In stead of either voting for closing down Schengen borders, or opening them up, we have total paralysis, forcing individual nation states to act unilaterally and chaotically. Except the fact that taking in millions of refugees and others would only cause an even larger influx of people, Europe "could" have taken in lots of refugees with no problem, IF they were spread out evenly among the nations. At least in theory. :D (Idea is of course flawed because of future consequences. ) - in Norway we call it "peeing your pants to keep warm."
-
About Britain leaving the EU. I think it's retarded. It's a result of ignorant Brits thinking they are "special and superior" (like Americans, but they have some reason at least.) Except that it's a very long time since they were special and superior. Germany is a far better run country than that island.
It wasn't the EU who fucked Britain over. It was themselves and their idiotic tinkering, class system, practical backwardness, and general power being far, far removed from realities. After spending time in Belfast I'm honestly a little shocked how terribly run everything is. Perhaps Belfast is not a good metric for judging Britain, but it says something when our Ukrainian coders thinks its not so different from back home! :D
It's almost as if you're suggesting that decency is dependent on whether you're pro European Union or not, which is quite a pathetic argument to make.
and some middle European version with all the decent countries like Germany, Austria, Benelux, Poland, maybe France.
wat? I'm suggesting the big O's "you are from X, no wonder you suck" argument is funny. There are good pro and contra EU arguments but my remark has nothing to do with that. Personally I'm for smaller solutions with fitting mindsets and economic strength.
Like a scandinavian union(Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland):
SCandinavian Union Members
Spain, Portugal, Tunesia, etc.:
Iberian and North African Nations Enterprise
Greece, Balkan States(yeah, right):
Balkan Union of Mediterranean States
and some middle European version with all the decent countries like Germany, Austria, Benelux, Poland, maybe France.
Saying that his view is faulty because of his country of residence or birth is a logical fallacy though. Ad hominem.
Absolutely everyone has biases and that doesn't break an otherwise valid argument.
It only shows that you don't like it.
Just to be clear, you're using FIFA as an example of how you think things should be settled on an international level? That is amusing. So, an oligarchy where even the pretense of representing the people that put you in power is absent in favour of a paternalistic contempt for the poor dumb inferior brutes who just can't see the bigger picture, and must have their choices made for them by a morally enlightened pseudo-nobility. Ignoring of course the ridiculous inneficiency, lack of checks and balances and corruption that comes from such a system.
In any case, as a "belgian", a "country" where a national sense of identity has always been either non-existant or completely artificial and supported by no discernable native group, I understand why you think nations are irrelevant. The destruction of an identity that never existed in the first place (not in the critical theory sense, where that is true for every single collective identity, but literally never existed) is not exactly a challenge, and given your "country"'s role as the geographical embodiment of the EU it's not surprising it was accomplished so quickly.
Well I haven't made the conclusion that his view is faulty based on his country of resistence but only that it's influenced.(If your post is in response to mine.) After re-reading some of Kafeins posts there are some elements of his argument I agree with. A single unified world government if successful could solve some of humanities problems. However at the current level of human development I doubt the world is ready for such an entity, both in the developed and developing world. An attempt to introduce such a system both covertly (which I suspect is already underway) or overtly is likely to cause more problems than solutions.
If the EU was a model of mass governance worth replicating it would be a good start, in its current and likely future state it's not. It's a system under strain from its own members interests and the interests of its global partners, mainly the U.S and under strain from its own failed policies and failue to turn them around.
... state that also happens to be the apple of the EU's eye may have an imbalanced/biased influence on someones political view of the European Union, a view which would lead that person coming to differing conclusions about the EU and global geopolitics.
In the seventeenth century, the Muslim chronicler Abu’l Ghazi wrote: “Under the reign of Genghis Khan, all the country between Iran and the land of the Turks enjoyed such a peace that a man might have journeyed from sunrise to sunset with a golden platter on his head without suffering the least violence from anyone.”
The world needs a new Genghis.
I thought writing 'Is it time for round three already?' as presenting a scenario where that could happen.
Yes, I've always found the pre-war optimism a lesson to take to mind, which is why I didn't just wave off the possibility entirely. My point was and still is that it's far less likely today than then, for a number of reasons.
Of course not, I wrote 'some degree'. There's been a good deal of science done in these areas in psychology and sociology, that too much diversity (especially of the non-benign type such as with a greater degree of cultural clashes or fundamentalist religion in a secular society) brings a decline in social capital. Look at social development at large among western nations, the generally happiest, safest, least corrupt places are the smaller, homogenous nation states. That doesn't mean there isn't any new ideas from the outside or no foreigners, there is no reason to think any of us here deal in absolutist terms.
I've never said they did. What I'm referring to is a social contract which is included in some form in most western constitutions. To surrender some freedoms in exchange for protection of some rights.
Populism isn't all demagoguery, often it is also the will of the people being heard and can lead to positive changes. I don't see how it is shortsighted if it actually leads to laws being passed dealing with some of the issues clearly at people's minds.
I'm also looking at economics. There are pretty serious wealth discrepancies between poor Southern and Eastern and rich Northwestern Europe, just look at the dire situation on the Greek and Spanish labour markets after adopting the Euro currency. Or the flow of Eastern European workers destabilizing the low-income job market in the west for the native work forces.German companies only profit from the Eastern extension.
Main trade partners of Germany are the US, Austria, France and United Arab Emirates.And again you show your inability to read and understand the words.
How do german companies profit (only) from the "eastern extension", as you put it? Give me an example. Something beyond the trite and patently false "they do the jobs the natives (who don't exist as an ethnic group group, unless we need to criticize them collectively, as in this instance, when they're suddenly very identifiable) won't do". Do you have any numbers to support that assertion, or is it just one of the usual bullshit superficial arguments people like you trott out routinely?Your not worth my time. I gonna simply ignore your bullshit from now on.
German companies only profit from the Eastern extension.When I say healthy I mean not just for the minority getting wealthy off the EU in its current state, but for our working classes aswell.
When I say healthy I mean not just for the minority of getting wealthy off the EU in its current state, but for our working classes aswell.I didn't say that it's good or anything.
As for the other, it's an often repeated argument with no factual basis as far as I know, that our work force is simply too pampered and that our unemployed just don't want to work. We shouldn't have to import a new underclass nor is it desirable to do so for anyone. We must swipe our own streets.
When I say healthy I mean not just for the minority of getting wealthy off the EU in its current state, but for our working classes aswell.
As for the other, I've heard the argument repeated ad nauseum, that our work force is simply too pampered and that our unemployed just don't want to work. We shouldn't have to import a new underclass nor is it desirable to do so for anyone. We must swipe our own streets.
Your not worth my time. I gonna simply ignore your bullshit from now on.
Find it yourself. I am confident you know Google?
Your so blinded by your own ego and opinion that your not even able to comprehend the most basic concepts anymore. Dwell in your own hate as much as you like. I won't take part.
Now, fuck off.
Nobody really cares about the "working force" politically anymore.
Even the room cleaners in the union buildings are cheated and underpayed... go figure.
Especially not the entire political wing that was supposed to represent their interests. I wonder what happened. Couldn't possibly be that retarded postmodernist identity politics took the forefront? That the salient issues of the day for the left are no longer class and wealth but race and gender, a focus that is ironically counterproductive to their goals?No.
So you have no parties or political movements that advocate the abolition of borders and a universalist credo specifically citing racial and cultural diversity, along with a program of mass immigration designed to facilitate this? Interesting. I guess Germany's political landscape is unique in the western world.It is a specific historic 'connotation'. Believe it or not.
Oldschool communists are failing everywhere, it's the same in France. It has nothing to do with historically negative connotations.
Don't you understand, it's to the population's benefit that foreigners come in and do manual labour for cents on the dollar, driving down wages is excellent for the oligarchy, and doesn't stifle technological innovation at all. And the people who ultimately pay for it, well, who cares, what attachment could one possibly have to this growling mass of nameless humanity? They are no more special or important than any other human being, anywhere on the planet. What's important is that our aristocracy prospers.
I absolutely couldn't give less of a shit how they get to their conclusions, if it's because they are vicious racists or their imaginary friend told them to or they had a vision while on peyote, or if they actually studied and followed and understand what is happening. What matters is that their conclusions are right. It brings them no benefits and only negative consequences. I know this is unconscionable to you, since virtue signaling is 99% of your ideology. Maybe that's why the "bottom" of society is getting tired of the contempt and blatant loathing the "superior" part of society has been developping at their expense and for the benefit of foreigners. They couldn't possibly have any valid reasons, the dirty white trash, they're just not as evolved as you, I suppose?A valid reason to vote for a party who bashes the rights and social security of the low-income working force more than any other party in our political landscape?
Fortunately no one is proposing only trading within the unions.
But something like a Western or Northwestern European union have been an economic advantage for hundreds of years, and particularly so since the industrial revolution.
It has also been realized since about the Kalmar Union and the United Kingdoms of Denmark-Norway that a Nordic union makes fiscal sense (also in recent studies, think the latest one I saw was by a Swedish analyst from 2011), besides the obvious advantages of cultural attunement our industries have supplemented each other very well through most our history. Denmark as historical agricultural and shipping nation, Norway as shipping and raw ressources, Sweden as manpower and raw ressources. In the union times of Denmark and Norway materials flowed from Norway into Denmark where they went into industry and manufacture to the benefit of both nations, and the time of the twin kingdoms are generally regarded as a major practical success by historians. In the modern market these are still our main areas of commercial interest, though they have been spiced up with extensive knowledge-based economies (like precision engineering in Denmark and IT in Sweden) which goes well hand in hand, supranationally.
One of the main reasons we don't have a union anymore, Danish and Swedish power struggles aside, is because of European mainland politics, the major powers always saw it is a goal to keep Scandinavia divided, a Nordic Union would be competition. The Danish state was kept separate to offer free access to the Baltic, and a neutral Sweden as a sort of buffer state between Russia and the West. Denmark and Sweden have for centuries had different foreign policy concerns, with different giants on their doorsteps.
However compatible, I think I would be in favour of the Nordic countries teaming up with the rest of Northwestern Europe.
And yes, indeed, fuck the rest. I care more about my "tribe" than other people.
DC saying that leaving the EU could weaken us despite Nato and could bring on WW3. I almost think he secretly supports leaving and is trying to sabotage the remain campaign.That seems really obvious bullshit.
Oh come now Oberyn. The far right populists have got the be the biggest scum of the earth, in generally every country. Dont tell me you are actually dumb and agressive enough to support them just because they are anti-immigration? Even their solutions in that are generally utterly retarded. Not to mention their solutions for anything else.This is the 'right-wing populist' politics of the Dansk Folkeparti/Danish People's Party. I don't think it looks so bad, and neither does a lot of the population here despite being 'Scandinavian socialists', the DPP is now our second largest party. They have a national perspective, are conservative about what is worth conserving while still being invested in the working classes unlike many other conservative parties around the globe.
Danish People's Party's stated goals are to protect the freedom and cultural heritage of the Danish people, including the family, the Monarchy and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Denmark, to enforce a strict rule of law, to work against Denmark becoming a multi-cultural society by limiting immigration and promoting cultural assimilation of admitted immigrants, to maintain a strong welfare system for those in need, and to promote entrepreneurship and economic growth by strengthening education and encouraging people to work, and to protect the environment and natural resources.[35] In comparison to its predecessor, the Progress Party, the DPP focus more on immigration, while at the same time being more pragmatic on other topics.[36][37] While overall considered part of the radical right, its policies on most economic issues would rather place the party in the centre to centre-left.[36] The party's current leader, Kristian Thulesen Dahl, once declared DPP as an anti-Muslim party.[38]
The party holds that Denmark is not naturally a country of immigration. The party also does not accept a multi-ethnic transformation of Denmark,[55] and rejects multiculturalism.[34] Former party leader Pia Kjærsgaard stated she did "not want Denmark as a multiethnic, multicultural society",[56] and that a multiethnic Denmark would be a "national disaster".[57] The party seek to drastically reduce non-Western immigration, oppose islamisation, and favour cultural assimilation of immigrants. In 2010, the party proposed to put a complete stop to all immigration from non-Western countries, a continuation of a proposal the month before to toughen the 24-year rule.[58] They do, however, make the distinction between immigrants, those who intend to stay in Denmark permanently, and refugees, those that will only be in Denmark for the duration of the conflict, but ultimately intend to return home. The party has stated that it is more than happy to help those in need, but have a moral responsibility to the people of Denmark to keep Denmark Danish.[59]
This is the 'right-wing populist' politics of the Dansk Folkeparti/Danish People's Party. I don't think it looks so bad, and neither does a lot of the population here despite being 'Scandinavian socialists', the DPP is now our second largest party. They have a national perspective, are conservative about what is worth conserving while still giving a fuck about the working classes unlike many other conservative parties around the globe.
A bonus:(click to show/hide)
Lol, hasn't it historically been people trying to leave Denmark for somewhere better?And yet Denmark is still second only to Sweden in Europe of how much money we spend on asylum seekers, per capita. And we've been enormously generous in accepting people from the third world here since the 90s. Danes emigrate to developed countries and I don't think anyone has a problem welcoming anyone from these same countries.
They certainly have a rich history of migration. It's all cool when you want to migrate, but the moment people want to migrate to you it's all 'noooooooooooooooooope, Denmark has never been involved in the melding of cultures'.
Denmark sure likes other people accepting Danes into their country, and honours their maritime history of doing this. But let's not accept anyone into our country. Closed borders should work bother ways, if no one's allowed in then noone should be allowed out.
Lol, hasn't it historically been people trying to leave Denmark for somewhere better?
They certainly have a rich history of migration. It's all cool when you want to migrate, but the moment people want to migrate to you it's all 'noooooooooooooooooope, Denmark has never been involved in the melding of cultures'.
Denmark sure likes other people accepting Danes into their country, and honours their maritime history of doing this. But let's not accept anyone into our country. Closed borders should work bother ways, if no one's allowed in then noone should be allowed out.
Lol, hasn't it historically been people trying to leave Denmark for somewhere better?
They certainly have a rich history of migration. It's all cool when you want to migrate, but the moment people want to migrate to you it's all 'noooooooooooooooooope, Denmark has never been involved in the melding of cultures'.
Denmark sure likes other people accepting Danes into their country, and honours their maritime history of doing this. But let's not accept anyone into our country. Closed borders should work bother ways, if no one's allowed in then noone should be allowed out.
History is a BS argument either way for me.
Denmark and the rest of the EU are doing a commendable job playing damage control while the United States and Russia continue to civilize the Middle-East and Africa. Once these countries adopt a functioning economy and modern government the mass immigration should stop, it's a small price worth paying integrating these refugees for the greater good. Some of them will also return home with a modern education benefiting their home countries. In the meantime the EU gets all the manual labor and industrial workers they need to do the jobs the over-educated smug Europeans won't to stay competitive with global economic powers like China and the US, it's a win win situation for all.
Lol, hasn't it historically been people trying to leave Denmark for somewhere better?
They certainly have a rich history of migration. It's all cool when you want to migrate, but the moment people want to migrate to you it's all 'noooooooooooooooooope, Denmark has never been involved in the melding of cultures'.
Denmark sure likes other people accepting Danes into their country, and honours their maritime history of doing this. But let's not accept anyone into our country. Closed borders should work bother ways, if no one's allowed in then noone should be allowed out.
Denmark has a right to decide when and where to draw the line though.
History is a BS argument either way for me.
Drawing the line is one thing. Electing nazi wannabe parties is sure way to get your country fucked. Doesn't matter what they stand for, if you elect them you'll see their true colors.
Don't want immigrants to come in waves and your government isn't capable stopping it? Start a movement, demand referendum which will limit immigration. No need to elect scumbags who say they'll do it but in the end as rest of them corrupt bastards will just fill their own pockets.
Of course, just like all the migrant workers that were brought in after the second world war were going to return to their countries. Whatever would we do without a resentful, violent underclass of foreigners that have massive cultural conflicts with western values. The occasional mass murder, the increasingly violent political dissidents, the absolute refusal to integrate, the disproportionate amount of crime commited, that is but a small price to pay to make sure our capitalists can pay subsistence minimum wages to as many drones as possible. And all we have to do is wait for the US and Russia to socially engineer the worst shitholes of the Middle-East and Africa into functional countries for the endless waves to stop! Hahahahahahahaha. Any time now I'm sure. Seriously though, maybe get working on civilizing Detroit before moving on to country sized areas.
Lets clarify that its islamic immigration. A political form/culture that hasnt given birth to a single successful, free and modern society that doesnt harass an insanely huge number of groups of people and is well known for being one of the most intolerant ones currently still existent to this day. Is it really so shocking to anyone why nobody with some common sense wants to roll the dice with those people that come from that part of the world with those views?
Not against immigration itself. I wish Canadians or the Danish would migrate to my country. Id pay to make that happen. :lol:
Exactly,Be wary of outright dismissing arguments where you don't necessarily know the underlying reasoning.
These parties are the same the world over. Even when they accidentally stumble upon a decent point they justify it with the most retarded argument.
That's the danger, you vote for a party because they agree with you on a core subject. But they reached this conclusion for stupid reasons, which gives an indication of the type of innovative decision-making you can expect from them moving forwards.
This party is pro-monarchy cos history and pro-church cos history. Y'know, all that good stuff that the cRPG community loves. The only reason they're not a joke on this forum is because they are also anti-immigration cos history.
Does that mean that on this forum: immigration>religion>monarchy?
And you're a dumb fucking traitorous cuck
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You can always vote for someone else next time in 4 years :) and this much will not change for sure.
It's not that obvious.
Caught a glimpse of Eurovision tonight. Have sudden urge to nuke Sweden for some reason... Highlight of the show was some big titted barbie from Norway. Sadly, she didn't make final and show is officially shit.
Now I get why your leaders are importing muslims in crazy numbers. You are beyond repair.
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It's worse cos it's a just a trending internet meme-word that's somehow supposed to offend/discredit people who don't hate minorities.
When you need to make up a new internet word for a concept too stupid to already exist in the English language.
He's already the minority, there's only 1 of him.
And how many people used that word 2 or more years ago? And how many used it 2 or more years ago to mean the same thing as you use it for now? Just a trending edgy dank meme-word that kids online like to use that means nothing to anyone outside the internet.
If you call someone who isn't a basement dwelling nerd a 'cuck' IRL, they wont have a clue what your calling them with your meme-based internet vocabulary.
Call someone a paranoid racist fuck IRL, they know exactly what that means.
For hundreds of years it was taken as granted that there was a shared european culture as influenced by greek and roman roots. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE EU.
Even 2000 years ago people could do that shit.
Roman auxiliaries born in northern Africa could serve on Hadrian's wall, serve their 25 years before receiving their diploma and becoming a Roman citizen where they could join the Senate in Rome and/or get land anywhere in the Empire for their service. It was work earned but it was equal treatment whether you were a 'barbarian' from north/western Europe, northern Africa or the Middle-East. .
....Looking out for 'our own' doesn't seem to be compatible with a united Europe or a united world goal, I always considered it to be the opposite.
Oberyn actually is a straight-forward racist in the deepest corner of the term's meaning.
Who would have thought... :lol:
There's nothing racist about a rational immigration policy.
There's nothing racist about a rational immigration policy.There is tho when someone brings the freaking genome as an argument into the discussion :lol:
Yes, of course, because minorities being identified and identifying themselves by their collective ethnic, racial, and cultural characteristics is completely reasonable
Who the hell are you talking about? Nobody here and pretty much nobody everywhere believes that minorities should have a strong collective identity if the locals cannot have one.
Only Europe has roman/greek roots? I know many Scandinavian countries that were certainly never part of the empire and had limited exposure, whilst much of the Middle East and northern Africa had a lot of roman/greek influence.Despite never conquering the North, the Roman influence on European culture lived on through the Frankish Empire and the institution of the Papacy, the Christian European kingdoms of the late Iron Age and Middle Ages and on to a revival of Greek philosophy during the Renaissance and Enlightenment. Mostly a fusion of Roman law (and the Roman Catholic Church) and Greek philosophy (including the influence of Plato's dualism on European Christianity). Also in Scandinavia from around the end of the Viking Age.
Just wanted to post it.
Last night I went for a quick walk and passed by many specimen of unemployed and uneducated Serbian youth who wander the nights wasted and broke. Heard one of those "gangs" talking about their filthy rich "friend" who is apparently Jewish and how they plan to steal from him or something. It was odd thing to witness, even for this shithole where anything can happen.
Isn't antisemitism one of the biggest problems in Europe atm? I heard there is a flight of Jewish people from France and Germany to Israel because they do not feel safe.
Nope. They dont feel safe because of islamic immigration. Because, well poor Middle-Easterners are incredibly superstitious bunch of people. Heard that some of the jewish schools in France are under some pretty heavy armed police protection.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/anti-semitism-warping-jewish-education-in-france (http://www.timesofisrael.com/anti-semitism-warping-jewish-education-in-france)
Anti-Semitic acts in France have soared in recent years, increasing by 84 percent in the period between January 2015 and May 2015 compared with a year earlier, according to official statistics.
There have also been a series of attacks on French Jews, including a shooting at a kosher supermarket in Paris in January 2015 that killed four.
The attacks have driven a rise in immigration from France to Israel with a record of nearly 8,000 moving to the Jewish state last year, according to Jewish Agency figures.
Hughes is not happy with the way the media has treated the story. Details are randomly pulled from his interviews and entire angles are edited in later that are diametrically opposed to his beliefs. Jesse Hughes is an ordained Catholic minister. He’s pro-gun, pro-Trump, and pro-life. He recognizes that Islam is the problem and political correctness is literally killing us.
Takimag: It’s hard to talk about the attack without sounding like you’re blaming the victims, but it’s impossible to deny fear of Islamophobia and fear of guns led to a lot of deaths that night.
Jesse Hughes: I saw fear fall like a blanket on the whole crowd and they fell like wheat in the wind—the way you would before a god. I was totally alert from the very beginning. The first thing I needed to do was find my girl. Fear took a backseat and “where’s my girl?” took over. I could smell gunpowder in the backstage area and I knew someone fired a round back there. I saw a guy with an FAL and when he turned to face me his eyes looked like marbles. He was stoned out of his mind, and we now know they were on Xanax and cocaine. I recognized him. I’d seen him earlier in the day and noticed him staring at us.
They were in the venue early. That implies some staff were in on it.
I got in a lot of trouble for saying that. I know for sure that they were in there early. I remember them staring at my buddy. I just chalked it up to Arab envy. You know what I mean? When a Muslim sees a cocky American dude with tattoos, he stares at him. I realized later it was Abdeslam and he was staring at my buddy because they thought he was a threat. There’s no denying the terrorists were already inside, and they had to get in somehow. During the shooting I went outside and the backstage door was propped open. How did that happen?
Do you think political correctness is killing our natural instincts and making us vulnerable?
Definitely. There were two girls who were involved. They were at the venue and vanished before the shooting, and these women were in traditional Muslim garb. They knew people wouldn’t check them because of the way they were dressed. They got caught a few days later.
The fear of offending Muslims is a terrorist’s greatest weapon.
Look at the guys who bombed Brussels. They were wearing black gloves on one hand. Their luggage was too heavy to lift, but they didn’t want anyone helping them with it. Nobody brought any of this up until after the bombs went off.
We’d rather die than be called a bigot.
How is a faith being associated with racism? Just take out the word “Islam” and replace it with “communism.” It’s an ideology. The same way the Rosenbergs could sell nuclear secrets from within America is the same way Muslim terrorists can attack us from within. It’s okay to be discerning when it comes to Muslims in this day and age.
Where is this push coming from? Is it all our fault?
Of course not. When you’re at a soccer game in Europe and you see the words “United Arab Emirates,” you know there is a lot of Arab money floating around and influencing the dialogue. The conversation is constantly being steered away from scrutiny. They think we’re fools.
Arab money is a pollutant. So many movies are made with Arab money. George Clooney doesn’t kiss the ass of the Arabs for no reason. American movies are the best way to influence the hearts and minds of the world.
You never see bad guys in movies who are Arab terrorists. It’s always Germans or French…
Or conservative Christian rednecks. They’re apparently what’s wrong with everything in the world now, including global warming. What about the other ice age we went through? There were no Christian Republicans back then. What caused that meltdown?
The other problem with that is, when you get rid of these Christian rednecks, you create a vacuum and it gets filled with people way worse. It gets filled with Islam. You end up replacing evangelism with sharia law.
Politicians behave better when they know people are watching. We behave better when we believe Jesus is watching us.
These atheists tell us we don’t need religion, yet everyone seems to be creating flimsy substitutes to replace it. Rehab is just Lent. Meditation is just Latin Mass. Seeing a therapist is just talking to your priest.
And the thing about the Bible is it’s written down. A therapist can change his diagnosis just like that and there’s no way of calling him out on it.
Let’s get back to the attack. Why didn’t the cops come in earlier? It seemed like the killing went on forever.
The press heard some kids were locked away in rooms so they reported it as a hostage situation. Those kids were hiding. This misinformation meant the cops set up outside for a negotiation while inside dozens of people were dying.
The terrorists would go up to bodies and stick them with the gun. If they budged, they’d shoot them again. One girl got up and said she was scared. The guy said, “Don’t be scared, you’ll be dead in two minutes,” and then he shot her, BOOM.
The French are so concerned with racism, they’re letting Muslims get away with murder.
A day after, at the stadium, Muslims booed the moment of silence and we barely heard about it in the press. I saw Muslims celebrating in the street during the attack. I saw it with my own eyes. In real time! How did they know what was going on? There must have been coordination.
I’ve heard you say you credit your childhood with your survival. You had a real dad who stuck around and taught you about guns.
I knew what gunfire was. I was able to think through it. I was also able to remember practical lessons of my life because I had to be in fights as a kid. My mom didn’t go sue anyone. I didn’t have playdates. I had some practical upbringing growing up in the desert where you got to get yourself out of your problems.
Also, the reason I’ve done well with this healing process is everything I was raised to believe was affirmed that night. In a way, that’s a blessing of God. When the first bullets started being fired, people looked at me. I remember that. It pissed me off because I knew right then and there it was going to be bad. I knew these kids had no idea what was coming. None. They’d never heard a gunshot in real life and it hit them so hard.
Political correctness kills.
Davey [bassist Dave Catching] was in the middle of the stage and when the lights went on, he saw shit he’d never seen before in his life, awful stuff. It has no parallel. It’s not just death. It’s the most unsuspecting, innocent victims you can imagine—people who are gripped in terror and can’t move as a result of it.
It’s like a metaphor for all of Western civilization.
I watched about seven people die. A couple of them were three feet from the barrier. They could have fallen backwards and been alive but they were too scared to even turn around. I remember a woman just standing with her hands up in a surrender pose. The terrorist finally saw her and all she did was go, “No no no.” She surrendered to death in front of my very eyes. I was yelling at her, “HEY!” and I don’t think she could hear me. She was so terrified, I think she’d already given up.
Is it fair to say the liberal mentality created this need to surrender?
I will lay the blame right in its lap. When you tell people they can’t help themselves and that they’re children, you weaken them to a point where three feet away is life and they can’t see it because they’re too scared.
In a way we’re unarmed twofold. We’re literally unarmed and we’re also mentally unarmed.
It’s like the bleating sheep from Animal Farm. You suggest anything that strays from the narrative and this chorus of bleats comes to drown you out. This attack didn’t happen by accident.
I went to Paris after the attacks and was disgusted by the lack of rage. They didn’t blame Islam. In fact, many blamed the Jews. They seemed more concerned with us promoting xenophobia than laying blame on the terrorists.
I hung out with plenty of Parisians who were fucking pissed off, but it was mostly cops and military. During the attack, one cop finally realized it wasn’t a hostage situation and yelled out, “It’s a turkey shoot” as he charged in, holding his gun. He got shot right through the hand and into the neck and kept going. He took a terrorist out, chased another one into the hallway, who then blew himself up, and did it to another guy, who blew himself up on stage. Our amplifiers were a gory mess.
Did that cop live?
Yes, I met him in triage. I hung out with him. Great guy.
You went to the hospital?
I had pieces of teeth and human bone pulled out of my face. A girl got shot right next to me by the shooter at the top of the stairs who I had met earlier. She stepped one step in front of me and her head just exploded. It blew pieces of her teeth and skull into my face.
Why don’t we hear about this?
The media wants to summarize it, and important details get lost. The most important detail being when they started shooting, they were already inside. If they were hanging out enough to let three people go, then they knew security dudes. They knew bouncers. They knew doormen.
Do you think a percentage of the security staff was Muslim?
I know they were. Look, security guards backstage are notorious for being dicks. They check your ID every few minutes and nobody goes back and forth without being checked, even if you’re in the band. This guy didn’t care what we did. He didn’t even look at me.
The only time he seemed remotely interested in us was when he said to my girlfriend, “Do you speak French?” and “Where are you from?” She said she was from Texas and he was getting frustrated because that’s not what he meant. Then she said, “I’m American” and he lost interest. I honestly think he was trying to determine if she was Arab or not. She’s Mexican and she could easily pass for Lebanese and I think he was going to warn her if she was Muslim.
I kept opening up the back door to smoke and that’s usually a big no-no because of the sound ordinances. I’ve played there before and opening up that door to smoke got you in big trouble. This time, the security guy walks right past me and anxiously looks down the alleyway in either direction.
Maybe one of the reasons the cops are so much more pragmatic about this threat is that they are the ones who have to go into Les Banlieues and confront these people. Naïveté is a luxury they can’t afford.
When the cops went in after the attack, they shut down, what, 450 mosques? They found recruitment material in every single one of them. What the fuck is wrong with us that we don’t know about that?
Parisians think everyone is innocent, but the cops don’t. They even investigated you.
I was a person of interest, yes. They interrogated me for four days. I ended up helping them a lot by getting cell-phone footage. It was the cops and the FBI who asked me about the promoter and the security. This isn’t something I brought up to them.
We had eight police officers in our audience that night. They all had the same conversation with their wives, which was “Should I bring my gun or not?” All of them said no. When we went back and played Paris again they stood in the same places they stood at the original show and they opened their jackets and showed me their guns as if to say, “Not tonight, motherfucker.” It was beautiful.
Islam is crying wolf about Islamophobia in order to anesthetize us and make us easier prey.
They know there’s a whole group of white kids out there who are stupid and blind. You have these affluent white kids who have grown up in a liberal curriculum from the time they were in kindergarten, inundated with these lofty notions that are just hot air. Look at where it’s getting them.
Interview of Eagles of Death Metal lead singer, of Bataclan fame. Won't be seeing this anywhere on cuck media. So many problematic things. Only publish interviews with the terminally cucked who parrot the proper narrative, who even after having family members killed can just about muster a pathetic, revolting forgiveness for their murderers.
http://takimag.com/article/surrendering_to_death_gavin_mcinnes#axzz48fg8JmfT
Interview of Eagles of Death Metal lead singer, of Bataclan fame. Won't be seeing this anywhere on cuck media. So many problematic things. Only publish interviews with the terminally cucked who parrot the proper narrative, who even after having family members killed can just about muster a pathetic, revolting forgiveness for their murderers.
http://takimag.com/article/surrendering_to_death_gavin_mcinnes#axzz48fg8JmfT
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208A brave attempt to re-rail. And I thank you for it... :wink:
I would say most of the problematic things come from the interview itself :lol: goddam its like they are both reading from a script and just finishing each other sentences.Great counter-argument as usual, guaranteed Butan quality.
I can understand why you parrot this narrative though.
T-t-t-they're reading from a s-s-script!
I wouldn't mind welcoming our new German overlords, except they have a super shitty taste in politicians. I mean, come on. Merkel?In all these years, the very single first time she shows backbone is with the "We welcome everyone!", just to now slither back from it, making a highly stupid deal with Sultan Erdogan I.
I wouldn't mind welcoming our new German overlords, except they have a super shitty taste in politicians. I mean, come on. Merkel?Yes, I feel the same. If the Germans would elect some proper leadership next time and if the EU could be more democractic, be more about Europe and not just the interests of a few eurocrats and capitalists and protect its borders like everyone else in the world I wouldn't have a problem with it.
In all these years, the very single first time she shows backbone is with the "We welcome everyone!", just to now slither back from it, making a highly stupid deal with Sultan Erdogan I.Merkel did well enough by modern standards until the migration storm, she was tough and steady on the economy and favoured the home industry instead of just outsourcing everything to the third world like most of the rest of the western world. She even declared multi-culture an utter failure back in 2006 heralding better integration of the massive amount of Turks you already have there from 1961 and onwards, the worst integrated immigrant population in Germany, 30% of which don't even have a high school degree (not uncommon in the US but more or less unheard of in Europe).
Don't get me started...
We used to have politician with real character and backbone, like 20-30 yrs ago. Nowadays? Uargh...
Merkel and Germany have really fucked up big time with handling the immigrationcrysis. To the point of Europe basically now getting blackmailed by Turkey and no end to the 3rd world immigranthoards. 70-90% arent even fleeing war. Just their countries bad economy. And are here because Merkel told them that they can be. Atleast thats what all those people think she said.rofl... literally... :lol:
But I somehow think that was Germany's plan all along. To deliberately fuck up. Before the whole immigrationcrysis, basically all EU countries with failing economies were throwing shit and blaming Germany. I think at that point they had enough and this deliberate fuck up was a plan to distance itself from the EU fully, while still maintaining a moral and political highground. Now they can distance themselves because everyone wants them to, nobody can claim that they just abandoned ship.
rofl... literally... :lol:
I love reading EU and Germany bashing especially from people out of the Eastern parts of Europe.
Like these former backwater dumps and former Russian litter boxes would be anywhere near where they are now without the shitty EU and without the evil German money. :rolleyes:
But accepting those immigration terms was a suicide for Eastern-Europe in basically all levels of stability.
Dont pretend like the polish didnt lose their minds even at the thought of it.
And thats just from the thought of taking in immigrants. Imagine what it will be like if we will.
if you mean that the ruling party will change constitution, imprison or by other means eliminate opposition, buy/threaten/cheat voters, or something similar, than it can not happen in current Denmark.
Okay, I thought you were referring to some actual threat coming from refugees in our countries. But if you're talking about a Pandora's box which was opened by immigration crisis, then you're right. Partially because of Merkel here, in POland ultra right wing parties have won the last election.
Nah. At worst the streets will be slightly less safer at night, but that would probably be the most of it. Everything else we will probably fuck up ourselves. Call it being smart or stupid, our population isnt most certainly ready to take in anyone. And people like Molly saying its being selfish, not really giving a shit and forcing us to do it anyway, isnt gonna change that fact.
Merkel's immigrant offer of course wasn't a suicide pact or a self-destruct device but another decision made with incomplete information and some incorrect assumptions about the world, particularly on the geopolitical level. She couldn't see the masses coming in the future. There was an air of self-aggrandizement about it though. I bet it was supposed Merkel's legacy, a shining example of a political move that she'll be remembered for. And it looks like she'll be remembered for it but the shine is not all that great.
Strange how Merkel did not have all the information and could not guess the implications of her actions when dozens of other public figures did. I'm sure they were motivated by their white-supremacist racism though, so not worth paying attention to. Feels>Reals on the geopolitical level, what a time to be alive.
Everything else we will probably fuck up ourselves. Call it being smart or stupid, our population isnt most certainly ready to take in anyone.
The japanese took in around 20 "refugees". It took a couple of months before 2 of them were arrested for a gangrape. Turks too, clearly fleeing war and persecution (lol). You should go find the woman who got raped and tell her they clearly were no threat, that dumb racist hoe.
Strange how Merkel did not have all the information and could not guess the implications of her actions when dozens of other public figures did.
Roughly 210 million adults around the world would like to move to a country in the European Union, which is similar to the estimated number who would like to move to Northern America. However, about half of the estimated 80 million adults who live in the EU and would like to move permanently to another country would like to move to another country within the EU -- the highest desired intra-regional migration rate in the world.
From its surveys in 135 countries between 2007 and 2009, Gallup finds residents of sub-Saharan African countries are most likely to express a desire to move abroad permanently. Thirty-eight percent of the adult population in the region -- or an estimated 165 million -- say they would like to do this if the opportunity arises.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Far-right has been overblowing immigration since way before any crisis occured.
Now that there is one it must feel like its judgement day to them, which might explain the state of your mind these past years?
Back on topic.
One of the core issues about the whole EU debate is about people not being able to get their heads out of their asses. The world is bigger than Germany vs Britain or France. Bigger than the Netherlands, bigger than Greece hating on Turkey or Serbia hating on Albania, and vice versa. In a larger sense, the European nations and the US have everything to win by standing fast together.
It will only be easier to deal with China and Russia that way, or even just the EU/US power balance. For example, Britain is far more likely to get a good deal with the US, standing within EU, rather than bilateral deals. Britain simply needs the US more than the US needs Britain.
Europe has more in common within itself, than with the rest of the world. That's why it should be in a union of some kind. Thats why it should be easy to travel and work inside its own borders. Just look at donkey team. It would be impossible without the EU to gather a team across 8+ nations. This ability to fluidly move across borders is a large part of what makes the US such a powerhouse, and Europe is also becoming more like this. Like it or not, I think it is for the better. I see it in my own life, I'm considering where I want to live and what I want to do.
(Strongly siding on Poland(!), since quality of life, safety, and bang for buck is very high, if you can generate income based on export of your talent/work.) This mechanism is freedom of travel + capitalism in practice.
Now about the refugee situation, I think it is a slowly self-correcting mechanism in place here. It's just a huge sluggish machinery that sometimes takes years to react and end up with a reasonable mechanism to deal with it. As right wing parties pop up everywhere in Europe, the politicians will take note, and eventually adjust their policies.
Europe and the EU _will_ eventually become way more strict about immigration. Way before its "too late" as some people think. How it will go down? The traditional, moderate parties will wake up to record polls for the right wing populists, and begin to change their policies accordingly. Sometimes the populists will rule in coalitions, and also be forced to moderate themselves by the realities of politics, eventually becoming as indistinguishable as the rest of them.
This is the utterly boring truth.
It would also make sense to deal with the root causes of immigration, which apart from direct causes like war, is a deeply stratified world. For the first time available for anyone to observe and interact with through the internet. Now anyone can fully observe what shitholes they live in. (The majority of the worlds population!) For most people, the world is a corrupt, poor, dirty and dangerous place, and Europe is the best place to be. They come, because they can come, and good luck keeping them out. Reducing immigration substantially would entail blocking off the Mediterranean and the black sea with naval powers, negotiating expensive return deals with Turkey and Russia and all the southern Mediterranean countries, as well as very strict security in all harbours and airports. Internal borders in Europe will only fuck over ourselves and Greece/Italy/Balkans.
Perhaps this is what will eventually happen, but pls understand it takes a while for this kind of thinking to reach the top of the EU. It's not the end of the world yet though. Europe consist of about 741 Million people. Even 1 million a year will not substantially dent the demographics in the short term.
TLTR: Calm down, and think in a bigger perspective.
most eurosceptics are thinking of the bigger picture and just use the immigration as a blunt object with which to batter europhiles over the head with. You may want a United States of Europe but that is far from the wishes of everyone, I hope never to see the UK cede all power to a central European government in my lifetime. All of the horror stories are just that stories.I have the same impression from the outside.
Oh no we have a housing crises and the young people cannot afford to buy a house in most of the country, Then we are told if we leave the EU house prices will fall AND it will be harder to get a mortgage (how that works i have no idea). The problem with these debates is that there is no actual debate, Each side is just telling you how bad your life will be if you dont vote for them, The remain campaign has certainly not even tried to show how the EU is a positive thing all it has done is said how we will collapse without being in a continental union as if no other country on earth does it.
Thats alot of assuming. Where are your facts, before you call it "boring" truth?
"Calm down and think bigger perspective" is that what you will tell your friends and family, when they get hit by one of the "organized rapefugee jihad squads" like in cologne?
is that what you will tell your friends and family, when they get hit by one of the "organized rapefugee jihad squads" like in cologne?As a quick aside, I heard an interesting comment from Scott Reitz (his bio http://scottreitz.com/), among other things a 30 year veteran of the LAPD and 10 years in SWAT; 'There are no liberal rape victims'.
As a quick aside, I heard an interesting comment recently from Scott Reitz (his bio http://scottreitz.com/), among other things a 30 year veteran of the LAPD and 10 years in SWAT; 'There are no liberal rape victims'.Wut?
(Where has the Youtube embedder gone?)Typing [youtube][/youtube] works as per normal.
So if we leave the EU we make Isis and Putin happy (according to the Prime Minister) That along with war in Europe and NATO being weak if we leave probably means I won't be listening to much that comes out of Cameron's mouth :rolleyes:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36317006
"German court rules against comic Boehmermann over Erdogan poem"
GERMANY YES!
Not if he's from a protected class, in this case a muslim turk. Do you honestly think anyone would have taken this law seriously if, say, Bush had attempted to invoke it? German media certainly didn't seem worried about it back then, or any time they need to slander and insult another european leader into doing their bidding, the hypocritical bundle of stickss.
So if we leave the EU we make Isis and Putin happy (according to the Prime Minister) That along with war in Europe and NATO being weak if we leave probably means I won't be listening to much that comes out of Cameron's mouth :rolleyes:
So much for reasoned debates. Isis to the left of me einstein to the right etc etc song lyrics.
Im not sure. I cant see how Isis would be happy if we left the eu and freedom of movement was harder, cant see how the EU has anything to do with Russia considering it lacks the backbone to do anything as it is, People seem to equate the EU to NATO in these debates and act like NATO wont exist if we leave the EU or that the UK wouldn't honour its treaties if we left.
Why would that make Putin happy?
We know the Kremlin is backing eurosceptics like Marine Le Pen in France.
"It recently accepted a €9.4m ($10.6m) loan from First Czech Russian Bank, a lender with indirect links to the Kremlin. It is said to be the first tranche of a €40m loan (a huge sum for the party, if true)."
Thats a far fetched claim, but possible and backed by the mainstream.Neither German AfD nor NPD deny this relationship with the Kremlin. On the contrary, they used to boast about it.
I'm not supporting the Le Pen, but the origin of this is that the bank's doors were closed to them in France. It is pretty shameful that one of the most popular political party has to find money elsewhere to function normally. A far fetched claim but it is possible that political enemies were trying to strangle the movement financially at home, a very democratic hobby.
How many political parties receive money from other countries's middlemen do you think? Seeing the relative history of US overthrowing divine mandate, I wouldnt put it behind US/EU to do exactly the same.
The game of accusing Russia of things we do ourselves find no place in my heart.
Neither German AfD nor NPD deny this relationship with the Kremlin. On the contrary, they used to boast about it.
There even have been claims that Russia sent paid agitators to right-wing demonstrations...
First off:
When two German parties boast about their connection to and payment out of Russia, is it really far fetched that FN does the same, just more subtle?
Thats a far fetched claim, but possible and backed by the mainstream.This is of course not impossible. Though many well established banks might just not want to be seen in business transactions with Le Pen.
I'm not supporting the Le Pen, but the origin of this is that the bank's doors were closed to them in France. It is pretty shameful that one of the most popular political party has to find money elsewhere to function normally. A far fetched claim but it is possible that political enemies were trying to strangle the movement financially at home, a very democratic hobby.
How many political parties receive money from other countries's middlemen do you think? Seeing the relative history of US overthrowing divine mandate, I wouldnt put it behind US/EU to do exactly the same.It's not usually done. Not outside CIA style operations. And not to friends or nations you want friendly relations with. There's of course other methods of influence than giving money. And there's degrees to it too. Giving some oil to the squeaky wheel in the corrupt machine? Probably been done. Bankrolling a regime change? That would be news.
The game of accusing Russia of things we do ourselves find no place in my heart.
[...]That's exactly what happened to the AfD here.
Most important thing in matter of political party financing, is letting everyone have its chance at elections, not throttling out the fight of your political nemesis by putting them on a red list. It is how mafia work, and my country is doing that to the FN which I dont support the ideology. Still a cunt move.
[...]
I'm not supporting the Le Pen, but the origin of this is that the bank's doors were closed to them in France. It is pretty shameful that one of the most popular political party has to find money elsewhere to function normally. A far fetched claim but it is possible that political enemies were trying to strangle the movement financially at home, a very democratic hobby.
If only they were as concerned as you are with your country's poor and disadvantaged. I'm sure you see nothing wrong with the "big parties" discouraging these poor dumb brutes who don't know what's good for them of their votes. How exactly do you think they would do that, Molly? Do you think calling them evil racists was "ignoring" them, or their usual MO when confronted with anyone not towing the usual retarded globalistic, multiculti party line? Too bad the "mob" you have such deep contempt for are starting to give zero fucks about your favourite shaming tactics. Oh well, back to the drawing board, I'm sure insulting their intelligence some more will yield fantastic results.
Travel the globe some, please. The entire planet and the whole of humanity is working on a much different angle than whatever fantasy you're operating under.
We're just gonna keep going in circles. You think the world is heading in one direction. I think it's headed in another. You think the refugee crisis is going to help. I think it's going to reinforce basic, primal instincts of tribalism that have been a human feature since the dawn of history and still are in the vast majority of the planet, because the millions of immigrants? They don't share your perspective. They're still on their "obsolete", dying forms of association, and they won't give it up for your dream. Why would they? They don't have any levers of shame to manipulate as has been done for europeans.
You clearly fear the shadows of you own past and your own people more than you fear the blatantly obvious dangers facing you today, and this is a typical modern german trait, part oblivious arrogance and part self-loathing. Remember this conversation when the next massive terrorist attack inevitably happens in Europe. Remember it as germans lie executed in the streets, victims of the very same tribalism you pretend is a dying force in the world. Maybe you and your ilk will just shrug their shoulders and tell each other that this is completely normal and not a threat at all. Don't expect the rest of your increasingly angry people to react the same way. Calling them racist, moronic children won't work anymore, if the rise of AfD and other nationalist parties throughout europe hasn't been enough of a wake-up call already.
We're just gonna keep going in circles. You think the world is heading in one direction. I think it's headed in another. You think the refugee crisis is going to help. I think it's going to reinforce basic, primal instincts of tribalism that have been a human feature since the dawn of history and still are in the vast majority of the planet, because the millions of immigrants? They don't share your perspective. They're still on their "obsolete", dying forms of association, and they won't give it up for your dream. Why would they? They don't have any levers of shame to manipulate as has been done for europeans.Indeed in circles we go. Once more:
You clearly fear the shadows of you own past and your own people more than you fear the blatantly obvious dangers facing you today, and this is a typical modern german trait, part oblivious arrogance and part self-loathing. Remember this conversation when the next massive terrorist attack inevitably happens in Europe. Remember it as germans lie executed in the streets, victims of the very same tribalism you pretend is a dying force in the world. Maybe you and your ilk will just shrug their shoulders and tell each other that this is completely normal and not a threat at all. Don't expect the rest of your increasingly angry people to react the same way. Calling them racist, moronic children won't work anymore, if the rise of AfD and other nationalist parties throughout europe hasn't been enough of a wake-up call already.
Do you actually believe that the poor fear Islam, Muslims, mosques?You don't believe anyone could disagree on a cultural, religious or political basis? Under threat of bodily harm, radicalization, islamization, terrorism, the slow deterioration of values, ethnic changes, diminishing social capital? Of course that would make you a psychic, but I can only say that it's generally well-established that these things matter to people.
They don't really. They fear that the welfare will be less, that their job is on the line, that their living standard is declining even further...
They don't give a shit about their neighbours, their tribe.
If they had the money/income for it, they would be up and gone to a nice neighbourhood in an heartbeat!
You're naive if you believe that there is some kind of united movement for the preservation of the tribe.
Everyone is looking out for themselves, that's the 'ugly' truth.
I probably wrote about 5 times by now that I believe that 'my' current legal system is perfectly capable in dealing with all the aforementioned problems and this is the way a proper democracy is supposed to handle it.(click to show/hide)
I probably wrote about 5 times by now that I believe that 'my' current legal system is perfectly capable in dealing with all the aforementioned problems and this is the way a proper democracy is supposed to handle it.But Molly, my entire post was an attempt at nuance to the argument of yours I quoted, nothing more. Did you read the Der Spiegel link I posted? I can really recommend it, it showcases the reasoning of Saxon national-conservatism.
Anyone breaks the law? Arrest and punish him/her, according to the law. No matter their stand, race, religion or 'tribe'.
If that makes me an idealist, okay.
Have there been mistakes in the recent past? Yes, of course. Hundreds of thousand refugees appeared at the border and had to been taken care of somehow. Shitty situation? Yes, of course. And completely new to the government, be it regional, federal or national. Nobody was prepared for the shear masses and mistakes were made.
The societal modernization that took place in West Germany following the student revolts at the end of the 1960s is seen by broad swaths of Saxon's educated middle class as a fundamental evil. Modern and conflict-prone Germany has never been well received in Saxony, and not just in the narrow valleys of the Erzgebirge Mountains. Even members of the educated middle class in Dresden harbor yearnings for yesteryear. Such desires survived East Germany by way of the house concerts and poetry readings held in private salons -- and they informed the historically accurate rebuilding of Dresden.
The German press codex had a pass which said:"The nationality of a criminal is not supposed to be mentioned if it is not important to the facts reported."I think many would disagree with various media outlets' impression of when it was important to the facts reported or not. Also, it has been admitted by people of authority both in Sweden and Germany that self-censorship has taken place so as not to let 'incidents' play into the hands of certain political parties, essentially prioritizing politics more than the rights of the victims.
For example, Palestinians, Somalis, North Africans are some of the hardest to integrate for whatever reasons, and they are often involved in violent crime. Turks don't exactly have a good track record, either, which may surprise some, but what I hear from western Turks actually living in Turkey we get many of their undesirables. Vietnamese people, Iranians and Bosnians generally have a pretty good track record.
source neededI've posted a lot of sources last few months, but take a look at the footnotes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime
The only solid argument used by xenophobe to justify why immigration is bad is crime... Even then the matter of why the law isnt enough to deal with it baffles me. A fake refugee that rapes someone isnt going to jail maybe? And a homegrown boy raping someone else will 100% of the time?Because you want to avoid the rape to begin with and the fact is that some immigrants have a much higher chance of perpetrating rape than a native Swede for example. I don't think your logic would be much appreciated by any of the New Year's Eve rape victims or their families or boyfriends.
The kind of people that argue like you are extremely pragmatic and always want the mass media to learn the bitter truth.Yes, Europe is in a precarious position because of its geography, but what our fleets cannot intercept in the Mediterranean can be discouraged to come by way of less inviting asylum legislation and less 'everyone welcome' rhetoric by multi-culti fanatics such as current Swedish and German leadership. Denmark has seen a marked drop in asylum seekers after our government made it less economically feasible.
The bitter truth might be that your origin are deeply decreasing or increasing your acclimatation to western society (ignoring all individuality), but there is even more bitter truths out there. Like that you cant stop people from trying to come to Europe even with walls and 0 immigration legally allowed.
Look at how badly besieged are the palestinians, they still manage to break in and out. How? Because humans are very resourceful.
Then there is the "culture" and "national identity" arguments... I remember having asked you and others what exactly is that, and all the answers were always complete bullshit. Culture and national identity arent fixed, they evolve, and the fear of a Caliphate suddenly sprouting out of Europe with muslims rapidly out-breeding the natives is completely wacko.On the contrary I actually remember making a list of things that were genuinely 'western', and definitely worth preserving. I've also posted a long list of surveys from across Europe that demonstrates an alarmingly large group of people with immigrant background having a very different view on many of these things the rest of us takes for granted.
In the UK it's a little different. You know how you can tell if the rapist/murderer is white? The news doesn't mention their ethnicity. The ethnicity of the culprit it's only 'news-worthy' if they're an evil foreigner.
'White Atheist stabs man in London Underground' - really sells papers and makes international news doesn't it?
I don't find any of your views truly genuine. Views supported by Oberyn and Angantyr are clearly reactionary, while view of the "moderate" Europeans such as Molly, Paul or Kafein seems like indoctrination placed upon them by their respective societies. There are however some people in this thread, who have broader experience and are capable of rationally looking at things from many different angles. Sadly, due to nature of your western EU country most of denizens of it aren't like that but split in aforementioned two groups, reactionaries and idealists. Nothing good old fashioned World War can't fix, you'll be all rational human beings right after we're done with it. In case you survive it :)
"The British people will be treated as “deserters” following a vote to leave the European Union, Jean-Claude Juncker has warned.
In his greatest intervention in the referendum contest, the President of the European Commission said that the UK would face “consequences” and be treated as a “third country” following a break with the EU."
"I'm sure the deserters will not be welcomed with open arms," Mr Juncker, a lifelong European federalist, told Le Monde.
Its like Jean Claude Juncker actually wants the UK to leave the EU judging by the things he says :/
Does he really think people will be swayed by being threatened by the EU president ^^ Its literally the opposite thing to what he should be saying if he wants to win voters. Its like saying "you cant do that" to someone who will then instantly try to do it..
Probably because EU is always way too soft, on every possible occasion. Germany, along with few other countries, keep taking it up the ass to keep the EU going. What other place In the world is as soft and toothless?
Probably because EU is always way too soft, on every possible occasion. Germany, along with few other countries, keep taking it up the ass to keep the EU going. What other place In the world is as soft and toothless?..
Now wonder UK citizens are laughing when they hear about "consequences". I would too.
I don't know why such idiotic laws exist, I am a simple guy with no education. But I sure am not alone in my frustration, and this shit will change soon enough. I hope that EU prevails, and stops being a sort of an old and sweet grandma, that used to be something special back in the days, but who is not being taken seriously anymore, because of her alzheimers.
You have to consider that Vietnamese moving to Poland are pretty smart: its no secret that Poland is relatively right wing and racist, so if you wanna emigrate there you quietly move in, quietly get a job, and quietly get on with life. You dont start shit or the backlash will be brutal. Germans need to get their shit together. England, Sweden, many other places also: These kids wont listen in school so they dont have an accurate picture of how Europeans are historically: we want to do our thing and not be fucked with. You throw your weight, we move a bit, but push too far and we fuck your shit up. No part of the world has surpassed the West.
We nuked Japan. We, the west, dropped 2 nuclear weapons on an enemy state. Noone else has done that. The house of Othman ran rampant over the Byzantine empire and the west barely did shit. But then they fucked up when they came into mainland Europe and thought it would be the same. It wasn't. We mounted the largest cavalry charge in all of recorded history and fucked them up.
I'm scared that these fucking scumbags will keep making our society worse, and we are gonna react the way we always do. With ultra violence. Historically we haven't been bested. Even Spain: under the Caliphates, Al-Andalus was a great place to live, but we couldn't let them keep it and even if it took 600 years we fucked them up and took it back.
I'm not defending violence, or promoting it, but we have to look at the history of the West: when we are pushed too far we are even polite enough to say: HERE is the line. You are warned, push once more and we WILL stop you. We fucking do it to each other also. Look at WWI: England was tired of Imperialist Germany. They didn't want Germany having Belgium: 1/ they were our allies and we had sworn to protect them. 2/ Germany having Belgium ports was a real threat to England. So England said: if you fuck with Belgium we WILL fuck you up. And Germany LOL'ed and marched thru Belgium into France. Less than a day passed before England declared war on Germany. In Europe we have a limit.
Im so sad that we have worked so hard in Europe. Say what you like about the EU but we have had the longest peace in Europe since EVER. We welcome others into our countries with open arms, give them houses and free education, and they cant even control their kids. Slowly we creep to the right wing again, because its the natural way to feel. Next thing you know these same immigrants who were happy to throw shit at reporters, act like they have their own rules and shit, will be the same ones crying for news cameras to come and see how they are being incarcerated in camps and treated like shit. But noone will come then, because why would you try to help people that have violently rejected you?
TL:DR
If they dont stop fucking around, it will be on them, historically we have fucked over everyone who wont cooperate and the reality of how well we defend ourselves in Europe will not be pleasant or pretty.
Maybe that's the reason why EU is such a great place to live. I assume that Russia is nowhere near as soft and toothless as EU, so maybe you wanna get back to your homeland?
Maybe that's the reason why EU is such a great place to live. I assume that Russia is nowhere near as soft and toothless as EU, so maybe you wanna get back to your homeland?
I hope that EU prevails, and stops being a sort of an old and sweet grandma, that used to be something special back in the days, but who is not being taken seriously anymore, because of her alzheimers.The European states have had post traumatic stress for the last 70 years after the two most destructive wars in world history were fought in our midst. This is slowly changing as we speak, Europe has rebuilt, is at peace, and as many political commentators observe the geist of our time is the US cutting down a bit and the European states taking a greater responsibility for security issues once more, which seem a more fair deal for all.
Alpacino Petrovic
They are referred to in media as 'the most criminal family in Denmark', and surprise surprise aren't natives.
I expect guests to behave not be more criminal than the natives. And of course they've been to jail, many times, to them Danish jail is like a luxury hotel.
I expect to be answered when I ask questions, I guess it cant be avoided that some avoid their responsabilities, like "guests" in other people's countries.
I will catch you off-guard one day, and you will have to show your cards...
An idealist agrees!(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
if we stay, nothing changes
Stability is underrated.
What a surprise, we're completely different ages but when I was growing up I also loved it here and was proud of my Country. In my teens I noticed things changing, but was too busy being a teen to care in what ways. Once I hit my 20's and really looked around at my country I was completely dissolutioned.
What a coincidence that as a kid you were happy-go-lucky, more aware but still not engaged as a teen, then suddenly everything's gone to shit when you're a young adult. I'm sure no one born in the 70's or 60's or born today will go through these exact same emotions, truly your exact generation is the sole one where everything went to shit rofl, conveniently when you reached your early 20s.
From the sounds of it the issue isn't that your country was perfect before and now is shit, it's that you're no longer a kid. My recommended solution would be to get a horse or something to kick you in the head to try and simulate the mind of a child until your country appears perfect again, just like you remember.
Never said it was perfect, but I am fully aware of what the country was like during the 80's and 90's and while it was not amazing, it was miles better than it is now...Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?Your ass is literally being laughed off?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.
Literally LMAO
Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.
Literally LMAO
Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.
Literally LMAO
Awareness of anti-white racism must be increased, and the white = oppressive masters and non-white = oppressed victims must be removed from the minds, true Leesin.
But at the same time the complete opposite mindset of all non-white are potential serial rapists/killers and that the law/justice protect them even when they are wrong must go too. Its complete paranoia to believe that.
Its like, you are aware there is some injustice in the world, so to offset that you transform into a pure being of condensed hatred toward the "evil that noone speak about" (when everyone does in fact).
If a completely clueless person read your words, he might think that there is riots in the streets, pure bred whitey being beheaded then raped then burned by the thousands, the police looking on them with a smile... when its only a couple freak crimes per year that occurs in every other society that grinds your gear.
Of course only when its the non-white doing creepy things its very bad, lets ignore the crimes committed by everyone else, because it is totally normal occurence, its their country after all.
Leaving the EU will not erase the fact that every one of our countries have lawful immigrants that may or may not pose problems.(click to show/hide)
So, really nothing has changed at all? :lol:
I want UK to leave the EU, I was on the fence to begin with, but honestly I just want to see what actually happens if we leave the EU, if we stay, nothing changes, probably gets worse anyway and we'll never know what leaving the EU would do for us, good or bad. I'd rather take the risk and see if the grass really is greener, because even if it isn't I am pretty sure I can survive and provide for my children.
Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.
Literally LMAO
Where I work doing night shifts, about nearly a quarter of our team are African immigrants, I get on well with these guys personally, but they do little work compared to everyone else and every time the issue hits a breaking point, involving one or more of them, they all rally together and claim the manager/supervisor is racist and cause a big fuss about it. Because of the countries PC laws, regulations and the immense amount of bullshit paperwork, these guys have gotten away with this for years. We have Eastern Europeans, Indians, Filipino, all of which are more productive and never play the race card when they are called out on something by a superior. It makes my blood boil because these are jobs that other people could have, people that would actually work, because of the laziness and issues these guys cause, it makes everyone elses jobs harder. They wanted to come to this country to live and work, for a better life, then they should be working hard and respect our country, instead they shit on it like other groups of Immigrants have been doing so for years and they get away with it because of the PC bullshit system we seem to base everything on now. To echo something said from Putin, something I actually agreed with even though I don't exactly admire Russia, " Minorities need us, we don't need them", if you want to come here to live and work, learn our Language, respect our culture and integrate, or fuck off.
Agreed, this stemmed entirely from a 'my country was better when I was too young to read the news' tangent.
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For the life of me I cant understand why TTIP hasnt been brought into the debate because parts of that look scary as hell
Hey look I found an article from the Independent, an actual major news source. About the only one out there but it lists some basic points:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html
The chief statistician yesterday identified a rise in immigration as the most significant social change in Britain of recent years.
Len Cook, the former head of New Zealand's statistical service who took over as the UK national statistician in July, said population patterns through most of the 20th century had changed dramatically during the 1990s as migration became the main engine of population growth
Mr Cook said "homegrown" population increases - the surplus of births over deaths - hugely exceeded net migration into the UK from 1900 to 1990. Indeed for much of the century there was a net outflow of people. But between 1991 and 1999 net immigration averaged 104,000 a year, compared with a homegrown population rise averaging 107,000.
Mr Cook said the change was particularly stark in the closing years of the century, when migration became the predominant demographic influence. Immigration overtook natural population growth in England and Wales in 1994-95. By 1998-99 net inward migration increased to 194,000, while natural population growth fell to 72,000. "This amounts to a huge shift in the importance of immigration to changes in the British population, with consequences for ethnic mix and age structure," he said.(source http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jan/25/race.world)
About 70% of the population increase between the 2001 and 2011 censuses was due to foreign-born immigration. 7.5 million people (11.9 percent of the population at the time) were born abroad, although the census gives no indication of their immigration status or intended length of stay.[2](source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom)
I didnt know you were a character in DC Oberyn :o
Is the EU a democracy? Who appoints the commissioners?
Apparently they retconned Captain America as a secret Hydra chocolate chip cookie supporter, so I'm in good company. These bundle of stickss couldn't get more hamfisted with their shit-tier propaganda. Nice to see the WW2 era tradition of blatantly obvious political messages by inept "writers" in comic books survives, if somewhat on the opposite end this time.
David Cameron doing his town hall style tv thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFSJRH1q-A
Gove of leave campaign does it tommorow. Its a shame Cameron refused to do any debates tho
This thread is still alive? W0WEE I DID WELL FOR MYSELF LUK GUISE I MAED POPULAR THRED12!11!
Thank Oberyn, oh and also get him to post more its been dead a couple days now!
The Dalai Lama has said there are too many migrants pouring into Europe, warning against the continent becoming Arabised, and claiming the solution is the eventual repatriation of migrants.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/31/dalai-lama-eu-taking-many-migrants-germany-cannot-become-arab-country/
Shouldn't be surprising coming from a man who've fought his entire life to keep a Tibetan ethnic identity in the face of Chinese settlement of his homeland.
Shouldn't be surprising coming from a man who've fought his entire life to keep a Tibetan ethnic identity in the face of Chinese settlement of his homeland.
The current, bureaucratic entity of the EU is not the only way to have extensive European collaboration. Think very few have a problem with the latter but oppose the politics of the first. Some may argue it needs to be reformed from within, others that it takes rebuilding from scratch.
I'm sorry, but this is the irony. If you want an EU with more clout, more ability to take action faster. A so called less "bureaucratic" EU. The answer is less sovereignty for the member states. The reason things sometimes take a long time is simply 28 members having to agree on things!
I think the only way such a body can work, is to have a heavy emphasis on professional so called "bureaucrats" acting for their countries, rather than more directly elected politicians. Just like you don't elect your diplomats. It's a bit like how foreign policy is most often treated in a more serious and consistent manner than national politics. It doesn't mean its undemocratic. It's just one step removed from everyday party politics and headlines.
Besides, slow, stable progress, executed by professional diplomats representing their countries distanced from everyday party politics is much more preferable than the opposite. Party politics suffer from idealism and populism that would lead to pure insanity in such a big parliament.
The weakness of EU, like the weakness of any democracy is of course being slow. Just look at how quickly Putin was reacting to events in Ukraine, while the EU had no chance to keep up. That's only possible when democracy is sidestepped.
In any case perhaps the EU should invent an emergency commission just to deal with issues that require quick intervention. But then again I'm not a political scientist.
Besides, slow, stable progress, executed by professional diplomats representing their countries distanced from everyday party politics is much more preferable than the opposite. Party politics suffer from idealism and populism that would lead to pure insanity in such a big parliament.It carries with it the danger of being much less susceptible to public scrutiny and thus does not stand directly responsible to the checks and balances that lets bad, self-serving policies have consequences, politically and/or criminally. Far removed from the average voter there's is little loyalty to anyone save the strongest interest and lobby groups, usually within the industry and banking sectors.
It carries with it the danger of being much less susceptible to public scrutiny and thus does not stand directly responsible to the checks and balances that lets bad, self-serving policies have consequences, politically and/or criminally. Far removed from the average voter there's is little loyalty to anyone save the strongest interest and lobby groups, usually within the industry and banking sectors.
It's also hard to believe that idealism wouldn't feature prominently like in all human affairs, just look at the fanatical, anti-National, anti-democratic neo-liberalism of the current Junkerean bureaucracy.
About Juncker, well that is the general trend in Europe atm. Even in Britain you have the Tories ruling, and Juncker is a product of that. Live with it.. When times are ready to change it will change too.The problem is we can't really wait and see when it changes because these developments, and I'm talking mass-immigration here specifically, are not comparable to the occasional slip in domestic politics; the citizens of these countries, new aswell as old, have to live with the consequences for who knows how long into the future, these people are not going away and the inevitable results of ethnic friction are well-documented, we are talking immigration (in many cases practical colonization) from the third world on a scale never seen before in Europe, to the point where an actual population replacement is taking place, like in the UK where migration has been the main engine of population growth since the 90s.
+1000
The EU, like democracy, is maybe shit, but its the best material available.
I'm sad that people are so stupid that they blame EU inefficiency and cry for sovereignty in the same breath. For me the most worthy end goal of the EU is to form the United States of Europe. For more sovereignty, a confederation of european states.
The current economical/migration crisis is as much a reason for unification, or division. Our national leaders need to show the way.
Main problems with the current union include things such as:
A monetary union without shared economy policy, highly impractical and considered by many to be impossible.
The prospect of Turkish membership, effectively putting Europe's borders in the most unstable and militarized region in the world and flooding the EU with migrants whom are generally undesired by the local populations.
Flooding with EU with third world immigrants as part of some neo-liberal strategy against the working classes. I buy the argument that this would have happened under the national governments aswell but I think it is clear the development is much easier to turn at a national level, as we are seeing right now in many EU countries, my own included.
A bloated bureaucracy far from public scrutiny.
The lack of a coherent European identity necessary to have not only law abiding tax payers but the kind of dilligent, self-sacrificing citizens whom join in the social and political life (Chaplin's 'virtous citizen'), the kind of collective thinking that has made the European nation states great to begin with. As the EU has tried its best to erase national identities across the continent a new pan-European identity has not risen to take its place, instead popular national movements have been result.
Often completely different interests, economies, cultures, ethnicities, mindsets, histories and political landscapes of the member states. Which is why smaller regional unions would make more sense.
The problem is we can't really wait and see when it changes because these developments, and I'm talking mass-immigration here specifically, are not comparable to the occasional slip in domestic politics; the citizens of these countries, new aswell as old, have to live with the consequences for who knows how long into the future, these people are not going away and the inevitable results of ethnic friction are well-documented, we are talking immigration (in many cases practical colonization) from the third world on a scale never seen before in Europe, to the point where an actual population replacement is taking place, like in the UK where migration has been the main engine of population growth since the 90s.
From what I can see, Durkheimian sociologists and social psychologists like Jonathan Haidt are on to something when they talk about humans working best in smaller in-groups where people are similar and share similar values and then to work with others through alliance systems and economic cooperation. To me something like the United States with all the violence, identity politics and cultural battles (and the political correctness that naturally follows from this) would be a most unfortunate future for Europe.
A United States of Europe, god i hope i die long before that happens. Europe is not like the USA, we have different cultures and different languages and i hope it stays that way for a long long time, its what makes Europe special.
Not impossible, works fine for most. Problem was mainly corrupt Greek politicians. Now they are paying the price, and are forced to reform.You sound very sure about something that experts and economists around the world are not at all sure of. The adoption of the Euro has been a catastrophe in Southern Europe. But let's see what the future brings, though a recent study from a Syddansk University shows that there simply is no demonstrable relationship between economic growth and EU membership, no matter what your gut feeling tells you.
1st, Turkey will never be a member, unless they make leaps and bounds of progress. Never in the state they are in now, and where they are heading atm.Again, you seem very sure about something that has been a project for much of the EU leadership for a very long time. I wish I shared your optimism. Though I wouldn't want Turkey anywhere near the union even if they did.
"Neoliberal strategy against working classes.." Uhm, what? The only thing I see is a growing realization that we have enough, and sooner or later it will lead to stricter border control.Cheap foreign labour is used as leverage to bring labour costs down, meaning worse wages, work conditions and less benefits for the western workers when they have to compete with for example Poles who work for far less, but which is many times what they get back in back in Poland.
Member states are paying less than 1% of their GDP towards the EU.I wrote 'bloated bureaucracy' in the sense of the political infrastructure, not the economy.
Erase national identities? This is getting crazier and crazier. Aren't Britons still britons, germans still germans, and french still french? I've yet to meet, see or hear about 1 singular person with a Pan-European identity. This is just crazytalk.Yet that is what some of the eurocrats ultimately want, as you would know if you had paid any attention. New flag, new 'national' anthem, its own army, own currency, a new collective identity, increasingly giving up national sovereignity to Brussels, be it judicial or economic or otherwise. The .eu domain's introduction campaign specifically uses the tagline 'Your European Identity'.
But there are! They are called countries, states within countries, local councils etc..Indeed, but we were talking supranational entities.
Mass immigration to Europe will be stopped. I think the people have made a case. Even the swedes are beginning to wake up. This is democracy in action, in its own slow and boring way.Yes, but not by the EU, which was my whole point. On the contrary the EU is working towards continued third world immigration.
US is on top of the world when it comes to most respects. Yes they have their problems, but their cultural, economical, and scientific impact on the world is simply dominating. There really IS a lot of power and freedom in letting people live and work where and when they want to.What would be extremely extraordinary is if the country wasn't dominating. With the size, natural security, immense natural ressources and western culture (yet) of the United States it has been bound for a domineering role ever since its founding, as also recognized by contemporary writers. But, and what no one could foresee at the time, helped immensively along by the two world wars where the rest of the industrial world destroyed itself leaving the US with literally half the world's wealth in 1945 and no industrial competition, and a transfer of all the old European colonial interests into American hands. It has gone downhill since, however, as the rest of the world has rebuilt.
Let me be politically incorrect. The Brits are acting based on vague, distorted memories of a great nation, of so called independence! Of some kind of harry potterish land of style, dignity and adventure! In reality, your Empire was one of the worst oppressors the world has ever seen, most Brits lived in utter poverty, and you still live in endless mazes of hobbit-sized townhouses and your gray, rainy reality. Now you are afraid your misery will be destroyed by brown people? And Poles? And Gypsies? Yeah sure, this is why Britain sucks balls, and not your ugly-failure prone cars, archaic systems and bureaucracy, the ineptitude of the upper class, and the general hapless attitude of your working class?There is another side of Empire, one in which the British and French and others actually also did a lot of good in the world. It's a general consensus among modern historians that the picture is not at all black and white. Just look at some of the most developed countries in the world outside of Europe right now, they are usually old British possessions. The British and the French did away with a lot of the most backwards thinking in certain parts of their empires (such as widow burning) they built modern infrastructure like railroads and the Suez Canal, wrote laws, constitutions, organized, brought western medicine, technology etc. And yes, a lot of plundering aswell.
Essentially, I think the British problem lays in the class system. It is lack of meritocracy that lead to your industrial decline. Bad ideas, not bad work or lack of effort. Some are above the others, and they know it very well. In Belfast I met several "working class" people, and it was most depressing to me, how they seemed to fully embrace the idea that they would never amount to anything. The class system lives in the mind as well as in structures, most of all the educational system.As for the last part I wholeheartedly agree with the criticism of the class system, but I see the mass migration to the country as only exacerbating that, favourizing people from abroad instead of taking care of its own poor countrymen, especially young white men from the old working class areas. I think it's a travesty and unworthy of a western nation.
Yet that is what some of the eurocrats ultimately want, as you would know if you had paid any attention. New flag, new 'national' anthem, its own army, own currency, a new collective identity, increasingly giving up national sovereignity to Brussels, be it judicial or economic or otherwise. The .eu domain's introduction campaign specifically uses the tagline 'Your European Identity'.
I've met people who described themselves not as their nationalities but as 'Europeans', btw.
USA is the biggest cultural melting pot in the world, your point stands only on language. And on that subject, a common tongue is also a worthy goal.
Leave the tribes to Oberyn and join mankind Osiris 8-)
So? What bearing has that on a conversation about Pan-European identity exactly?
You can't compare the forced assimilation of the 19th and early 20th century in the US to the multicultural salad bowl of today. They don't even call it a melting pot anymore, for very good reasons. Do you have any fucking idea how many institutional and cultural mechanisms were devoted to eradicating as much as possible of the previous culture of immigrants to forcely integrate them into anglo-american language and world view? Mechanisms that would be considered opressive totalitarian fascist racism as a matter of course by modern perspectives.
I have no idea where people get the impression that the end-result of millions of Europeans migrating to the US and the melting pot that gave rise to modern-american culture was achieved by some sort of gentle, unobtrusive, multigenerational tolerance, and not a concerted attempt at integration on every level by the powers that be. It certainly cannot be compared to the modern attempts in the US and elsewhere, where "integration" is a dirty word ladden with racist, colonialist overtones, and thus avoided in every way.
What I meant is that identities dont exclude themselves. Even before the European Union, we were europeans by definition, and we were men too.What I wrote needs to be seen in relation to what I was answering from Thomek; 'I've yet to meet, see or hear about 1 singular person with a Pan-European identity. This is just crazytalk.'
To voice a preference for your european identity or your national identity is one thing, and yes it shows how we progress toward a globalized state. However, whatever is your opinion on the matter, nations never superceded the world. Local < region < country < continent < world. They all exist at the same time, at all time.
Even since we progressed from feodalism to nationalism, we still have local identities and cultures, so for the same reasons I dont see why noticing that people can describe themselves as Europeans, means that national cultures will disappear.
Which, as already stated here, is pretty strange considering leaving the EU alone will have no immediate impact on migration in the UK. You'd need a party that's anti-migration in charge in order for that to happen.
When people vote to 'take back control!' on a national level, and do so from an anti-immigration platform, I wonder if it crosses their minds that they're notionally giving full 'control' back to the refugee-aid loving government we currently have. Our government's not miraculously going to become UKIP or BNP overnight as a result of leaving Europe. If the voters are daft enough to go that way, I hope they spend the next few years becoming good and dissolutioned over how 'taking back control' didn't make every little thing alright.
Nevertheless if the UK leaves the EU it will be considered a political defeat for the current establishment that may spill out into other areas of domestic politics.
But the 'out' campaign shouldnt promise what they have no power to deliver
...Why would we want continious growth? That is the economic formular for all problems. Partly based for the reason that there is population growth in the first place.
Plus you have the nations with a falling population, Germany being the prime example, that need migration if they are going to maintain economic growth.
...
Funnily enough it's largely a split vote judging by some of the polls that have come out. A lot of the older generation, middle aged and up want out. A lot of the younger generation want in. Greedy bastards basically want to fuck things up then die.
Meanwhile their children are voting to stay
From what I gather, people in big cities want to stay. Villages and smaller towns want to make Dixieland great again.
Yes assuming leaving would fuck things up :rolleyes: (dont go down the route of "everyone who doesn't see it my way is a moron"
my experience is the polar opposite to Hesky O.o I have actually yet to meet anyone who said they are voting remain, everyone ive spoken to said they were voting out. (young and old) (which will cause accusations of RIGGED!!!!?!?! by both sides"
I expect the vote to be very close (like scotland) and be a remain vote because voting to change is much harder than voting for the same. I would take the whole "young people want this" with a pinch of salt, what you probably mean is University students in general want to remain which pretty much doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things because most of them would vote labour/liberal and look how that turned out.
As for polling i wouldn't bet a quid on what they say after the last few years :D
The real interesting stuff starts on friday, If we vote to leave DC will probably be under a ton of pressure to quit and we may end up with another General Election. If we vote to remain i expect a large swell in support of parties like Ukip (similar to the SNP vote skyrocketing) when people start dividing themselves more on pro-anti EU than by party politics for the next months/years.
The worst part of this whole thing is that we found out that a good 80% of adults literally cannot understand arguments and debates. It has probably always been this way but most people hold their opinion and just think the other side are retarded morons.
I listen to both sides and vote what i think in the end, I don't think the other side are idiots or wrong to vote how they vote, Both sides use retarded arguments thats for sure :p
BUT!!!! Whoever wins George Osborne loses, That guy has pretty much committed political suicide with his tactics this referendum
again i know lots and lots of under 30s voting to leave. The problem is we all live in our own bubbles which give us the impression that most think like that, (and twitter, god damn twitter literally is the worst)
Interesting.
Roughly where you living atm if i may ask?
Around town i see some 'leave' posters as well as 'stay', the social bubbles i've mainly been exposed to in gauging opinion in my area are:
- Facebook: Mainly people i went to school with in oxfordshire, uni mates from Birmingham and housemates from when i worked there. Plus people i've met since in Oxford. Seeing lots of 'stay' and havent noticed any 'leave', i must have a 'type' xD
- My current housemates: 2 local lads, a northern girl, a french guy and his gf. Unanimous 'stay'
- Work: 200-ish employees largely from about the country but with a decent chunk from the oxford area. Havent spoken to *all* of them but have yet to hear a 'leave'.
- Family
Declan Kearney, a Northern Ireland Assembly member for Sinn Féin, says his party will push for a poll on whether Northern Ireland should stay in the UK or unite with the Republic of Ireland if the UK votes to leave the EU.
Pound down to $1.34 from $1.50, 10% loss of value and purchasing power within hours
Sterling is still going south.
What will Scots do now? Leave UK again?
What will Scots do now? Leave UK again?
Farage for PM lol
Edit:
Edit2:
You're in for one helluva ride.
I agree no one can survive outside of the EU.
I agree no one can survive outside of the EU.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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Well Scotland will most likely leave the union as they aren't going to want to stay on a sinking ship.
What annoys me is a lot of leave voters were all about protecting their patriotism and national pride and the only thing they've done is broken the country further. Also a large percentage of leave voters were of an age where they won't have to deal with the long term consequences, those repurcussions will be felt by our generation. If under 18s can't vote over 80s shouldn't be allowed to either.
Ah well the next few years are gonna be hella interesting
Brits are notoriously lazy and don't like doing jobs that they believe are demeaning, some of these jobs create the foundation for a working society but bits are just arrogant and think it's beneath them, even unemployed folk won't accept a job in certain areas.
Cameron has stated he will resign by October this year. Not a huge deal, but the last thing I want right now is a hurried general election following this referendum before we can assess the impact. From my biased perspective, I want enough time for people to realise 'we fucked up' before we elect a UKIP government (which again, how can that party even exist now we're independent?)
So taking advantage of immigrants and paying them shit wages is an acceptable solution? Plumbers here make on average $80-120 an hour, in the UK they make $12 on average. Who would want to work for those shitty wages lol
So, it's actually Brexit huh? I wasn't really expecting the referandum to pass. Wondering if this might cause a cascading effect.
I agree no one can survive outside of the EU. I hope farage goes away now though. Guy comes out with some retarded shit and doesnt help anyone.
Question now is how much feeling and passion hinders the negotiations. I can't see Germany wanting trade tariffs due to the amount they sell us but some countries may want harsh treatment to stop other referendums.
I would be OK with a Scot referendum, if they are pro EU they have every right to try one.
Only 52% listened to nationalist populists who liked to blame our misery on others. And it only takes 52% of the country to ruin it for everyone, if even 1% had stopped and reconsidered for a moment the vote would've swung 50/50.
The one good thing is that now when those imbeciles look for someone to blame, I hope they see the smug populists that made this happen standing there.
The capital, and 75% of the young wanted to remain. The vote may be over, but we've got an interesting few months ahead of us because 48% of the population in more centralised locations are not going to just disappear or change their minds overnight.
I wonder how Gibralter feel this morning. They were given their say, voted 90% remain but now are faced with being stuck outside the EU despite their location.
Knew I should've converted my currency last week.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Could've made a killing converting back into sterling today (if the pound makes something of a recovery as expected)
Honestly, fuck Gibraltar. Let Spain blocus them into starvation or whatever.
As for the UK leaving, the only critical thing in the coming months will be to avoid a domino effect. The saboteurs are out, now is the time seriously reconsidering what the EU is for, for those of us who actually want it. Lately, it has mostly been an excellent tool for local politicians to shift blame for policies they voted themselves onto an imaginary class of "unelected EU officials".
Concerning the UK, you don't have any of the natural advantages of Norway or the historical ones of Switzerland. Both countries are practically forced to abide by EU regulations but also have no say in them. In that regard, the UK has a slightly better shot at developing extra-EU exports, but for that you'd need to produce something first.
That didn't stop 45% of Scottish voters voting to 'leave' the UK this time last year. Support for SNP has only grown since then as every subsequent issue was attributed to 'I guess we should have left the UK', so in light of the recent shambles and lack of leadership there's a good chance that Scotland would vote to leave.
Whether or not Scotland could actually survive on its own is largely irrelevant to how people would vote, it's clearly not something voters in the UK consider when voting. Just have someone parrot patriotic nonsense often enough leaving up to the vote and even the most daunting economic challenges simply melt away.
How do you figure that's going to go?
Anyone here willing to explain that a unitary state (united kingdoms) scratching its membership of an economical union with other unitary state (european union) doesnt equal to splitting its own country?
If London and Gibraltar wants to leave, send the tanks.
Scotland already voted once, too late bros.
Northern Ireland should be given the chance though. Maybe even Wales? :P
#britainfirst
I have no chips in this vote, and have conflicted opinions on exit/remain, but god its always amusing to see people rage about good old democracy.
Unlike Gibraltar that may quite easily and happily find itself bedfellows with Spain
Finally, I wonder what this means for our very own Belfast-based donkeycrew.Inb4 Brexit kills Of Kings and Men
If that was our attitude we wouldn't have had this referendum in the first place.
Or Cameron could have ignored the result and allowed Parliament to decide, as was his right.
The world would be so simple the way you describe it. But when an entire region votes 1 way, and is forced into a position they do not consider to be in their best interest by nature of the union they are a part of, it raises the question of how well-suited this union is to their needs. And maybe it sounds craaaaaaaaazy for a region to consider leaving, well it hasn't been a long time since Scotland had that exact referendum for exactly these reasons. Not to mention the SNP stating this as their likely course of action if the vote takes this path, which it did.
Eh?
There was a healthy dose of sarcasm in it. It was the championed line for the 'leave' platform, taking freedom back for Britain. I'm just enjoying that the people voting 'leave' either don't give a shit about 'Britain' as a whole, or simply didn't think it through.
I still prefer your stance to the people who just didn't think very hard about it before voting
- a major referendum such as "indepence y/n?" is a once in a lifetime chance, Scotland chose, end of the story
The leave campaign won half because a lot of people seem to think that leaving the EU means we are going to kick all the immigrants out and get rid of Muslims lol and the other half are just desperate for a positive change and seem to think leaving the EU is a good enough gamble that might give us a positive change.
All in all, I blame the lies, broken promises and general robbery of our wealth over the years by the Governments in charge that we have even come to this point, yet none of these politicians responsible for the lies and fuck ups will suffer the results of any vote we make because they're all rich and can just gtfo and live anywhere they like.
For context the somali population of the UK was never granted asylum or visas here: they moved to holland in the early 00s got Dutch passports after 5 years and moved here en masse on eu passports. They then preceded to have one of the highest proportions of sign ons to welfare of any ethnic group.
The somali pop did Syrian refugees before Syria and are a perfect example of the abuse of free movement and eu rules that caused this vote.
Tsk, don't you understand that calling everyone who voted for Brexit an old xenophobic white racist was a game winning strategy? It's worked so well for decades, why give it up now.(click to show/hide)
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A lot of haughty disdain coming from people in the 'stay' camp who've apparantly never read any of the political litterature nor opened a social psychology or sociology book in their life.
The nation state strikes back across the board and the refusal to be absorbed by third world mass-immigration and the wish to retain a national identity is being noticed by politicians everywhere in the western world. We know from numerous studies these things matter to people on a biological level and instead of necessarily embracing it or fighting it it is only rational to reconcile with it and accomodate it in public policy.
All in all, pretty glorious stuff. Talk of having a vote in Finland too, now.Our prime minister said he took from Brexit that people wanted a slimmer EU and less immigration, more or less the lesson people should be taking everywhere.
If Britain is fine in a year or two, I think that's going spell the end of EU.
The circumstances have changed enough for Scotland to be able to call another referendum, they are about to be taken out of the EU against their will.
Problem with EU falling apart is that NATO will significantly weaken and maybe even fall apart itself. Finland would be crazy to leave EU, considering how close they are to Russia...
While EU is weakening, Putin is tightening the grip on his own Union. But you're too busy to notice that.
The best are the ones saying stuff along the lines of "it should be forbidden for these fascists to vote" or "weighted votes giving primacy to younger voters are necessary" without a shred of irony.
:lol:When was the last time you read any relevant litterature on the topic?
Didnt scots vote in the leave referendum? :lol:
I feel like many here are seeing their first election/referendum in their lifetime, learning how democracy works. I dont want to sound too harsh but really guys, get real? There isnt going to be a referendum a year.
Yes, and they voted unanimously to stay in the EU. That is why it gives us precedent to trigger another Scottish independence referendum. See my post above.
Unanimously = 100%
Majority = 50 +1
A regional part of the United Kingdoms voted in majority to remain, would be more correct.
Saying that it is a basis for further referendums is a completely whacko logic that has no conceivable limits. On that point the UK government can choose to support further referendums, but if it doesnt want to they would be fully in their rights.
The main part of the EU army-to-be just left.
When was the last time you read any relevant litterature on the topic?
As a Scotsman who voted to Remain, obviously i'm absolutely devastated. Scotland, as a country, voted to Remain in the EU. Literally, every area in the country voted to Remain in the EU.
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During the Scottish independence referendum, the 'No' campaign argued that in order for Scotland to guarantee it's EU membership, it would need to remain apart of the UK. That notion undoubtedly induced fear into the politically uninclined voters (apparently they didn't know the UK couldn't guarantee EU membership because they were holding a fucking EU referendum the following years) and swayed them.
I'm a research scientist at a Scottish university, and this involves a lot of collaboration and involvement within the EU. I don't have time to write about everything wrong with leaving the EU, so I won't try and argue the case with anyone here. Ultimately, I am forecasting an economic decline for the UK.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-scotland-referendum-eu-referendum-result-nicola-sturgeon-latest-what-it-means-a7099286.html
Fortunately this outcome now justifies another Scottish independence referendum, so don't worry guys, we will see you again soon.
If instead you mean I'm not in touch with the 52% of the country that exists outside of my county then yes. I'm in touch with the values held in the general area around London, Oxford, the Midlands as a whole. I must admit i'm less in touch with the over 60s demographic (y'know, the 'common man')
I've corrected my post, your first point is right.
I don't quite catch your drift. The UK government can veto a Scottish referendum, that is right. It would be seen as highly undemocratic, and nevertheless, they can't prevent Scotland from holding an emergency referendum. Part of our devolved powers (Scotland has a devolved parliament; ala Scottish Parliament), as well as the SNP's manifesto, allows us to hold an 'emergency referendum' if the fate of our EU membership is contested because of the UK. The UK can not actively stop this.
I'm not sure if that's what your post was referring to, but I hope I answered it regardless.
As an economic research scientist how do you justify Scotland leaving the UK if
You find me unaware of those "devolved powers" mechanics :mrgreen:
Problem with EU falling apart is that NATO will significantly weaken and maybe even fall apart itself. Finland would be crazy to leave EU, considering how close they are to Russia...EU has nothing to do with Finland's defense.
While EU is weakening, Putin is tightening the grip on his own Union. But you're too busy to notice that.
As a Scotsman who voted to Remain, obviously i'm absolutely devastated. Scotland, as a country, voted to Remain in the EU. Literally, every area in the country voted to Remain in the EU.
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During the Scottish independence referendum, the 'No' campaign argued that in order for Scotland to guarantee it's EU membership, it would need to remain apart of the UK. That notion undoubtedly induced fear into the politically uninclined voters (apparently they didn't know the UK couldn't guarantee EU membership because they were holding a fucking EU referendum the following years) and swayed them.
I'm a research scientist at a Scottish university, and this involves a lot of collaboration and involvement within the EU. I don't have time to write about everything wrong with leaving the EU, so I won't try and argue the case with anyone here. Ultimately, I am forecasting an economic decline for the UK.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-scotland-referendum-eu-referendum-result-nicola-sturgeon-latest-what-it-means-a7099286.html
Fortunately this outcome now justifies another Scottish independence referendum, so don't worry guys, we will see you again soon.
The nation state strikes back across the board and the refusal to be absorbed by third world mass-immigration and the wish to retain a national identity is being noticed by politicians everywhere in the western world. We know from numerous studies these things matter to people on a biological level and instead of necessarily embracing it or fighting it it is only rational to reconcile with it and accomodate it in public policy.
If instead you mean I'm not in touch with the % that exists outside of my region and age-group then yes. I'm in touch with the values held in the general area around London, Oxford, the Midlands as a whole. I must admit i'm less in touch with the over 60s demographic (y'know, the 'common man')
You see that yellow blob in the midlands around London and to the west of it?
Can we come with you?
Yes, let us march towards collective irrelevance and internal strife. The ideal future for all Europeans.What does "destiny" even mean?
Now honestly, do you genuinely think nation states the size of Finland and the UK (soon to be split into however many parts) have control over their own destiny beyond highway speed limits in the real world? Because I don't. For 60 years the world has increasingly made small states irrelevant and incapable of dealing even with their own localized problems, by virtue of being increasingly interconnected, and not only through moving populations. As for the real, big global issues coming up, nation states only offer to make the problems worse.
That much is true regardless of chimp brains. You think you have an argument, but what you really have is an excuse.
Yes, of course.
I don't blame the indyref No voters. There was a lot of uncertainty and doubt over the prosperity of a divided UK, for sure.
I'm gonna leave this here for everyone:
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Problem with EU falling apart is that NATO will significantly weaken and maybe even fall apart itself. Finland would be crazy to leave EU, considering how close they are to Russia...
While EU is weakening, Putin is tightening the grip on his own Union. But you're too busy to notice that.
And why would that be? NATO existed long before 1993 and Putin's actions just strengthen the raison d'etre for the alliance.Finland isn't in NATO either, so...
What does "destiny" even mean?
Obviously small states have to work with other states, their policies might even be strongly influenced by those they work with, but it's still a far cry from having laws dictated to them by someone else, or told how many immigrants they have to take or how much money to pay to Greece.
Eh "Belgian" upset and angry at national sovereignty, what a surprise. Maybe that little spiel is accurate for your "country", but you'd have to be fucking retarded to compare the UK and Finland in the same sentence in any way. Think real, real hard, and maybe you could come up with some of the important ways in which they differ and how this might affect their economies in relation to staying/leaving the Euro. I understand why you'd want to put your "country"'s situation as representative of the varying nations now part of the EU, though. There really isn't anything to get back to in your case.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-06-24/leave-voter-disappointed-and-wishes-to-vote-remain/
FUCKING IDIOTS
Lets do a poll on "remain/leave" and if the results are not similar one day after the referendum, we do a second referendum with the lessons of the first at hands! :P
For a researcher you have really strange understanding of statistics. A missing column in that table that would be usefull is the total number of votes per age bracket, if the point was to insinuate old reactionary racist cunts are the main reason Brexit passed, and all you need is to wait for these old white shitlords to die before true utopia that the "educated" young believe in can commence. But I suppose it was left out for precisely those reasons.
By no means are these a relative indicator of the number of votes per demographic, you're right to critique an image with vague percentages. But I believe it paints a political picture.
I'm not implying anyone's an 'old racist cunt', i'm not saying that young 'educated' people are the prophets that will carry us into a golden age of prosperity either. I'm just showing something that carries it's own implications. You can make a lot of different arguments explaining the diversity in opinion with regards to age, but again, i'm merely highlighting the issue. Take from it what you like.
"a far cry from having laws dictated to them by someone else"Ah, you're crusading for the whole "citizens of Earth" thing.
It seems you fundamentally don't understand what I'm talking about. Laws are always dictated by someone else. Today 48% of British citizen had the other 52% impose something that will have a lasting impact on their lives against their will. How is that not a law dictated to them by someone else? Unless you think about "British" as a kind of Borg monolithic entity.
Problem with EU falling apart is that NATO will significantly weaken and maybe even fall apart itself. Finland would be crazy to leave EU, considering how close they are to Russia...
While EU is weakening, Putin is tightening the grip on his own Union. But you're too busy to notice that.
Lol Gibraltar, my TOWN has nearly triple the population of Gibraltar, fuck them, not our problem, we weren't voting for their sake. I am really am not sure what is going to happen in the shit storm to follow, I am not sure if I am going to like much or any of it, but what I do know is that at least we will get rid of the Scots now, fuck them.
Fuck EU, fuck Gibraltar, fuck Scots, fuck NI...
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Fuck EU, fuck Gibraltar, fuck Scots, fuck NI...
I also find the "old = stupid and disconnected to real life" a bit counter-intuitive.Yes, and on the other hand, the assumption that 18 year olds are somehow more qualified to vote, and know these things better. Have these people met the average 18 year old?
Not to add that millions of younglings voted to leave, its not like 25% = none?
Taking it along with the barrage of butthurt whining that the sky is falling from regressive media and that those responsable are the dying old white racists that everyone else can't wait to dissapear, because the young and "minorities" are obviously all tolerant humanist globalists, uniformly, it's not very hard to see what the "implications" of the graph are. It's literally spelled out. I'm sure you had no consciousness of this graph being blatantly misleading when you posted it though.
Argentina said they'll take Falklands back if this happens. We'll see if they have balls to attempt such a thing.
I wonder how many moron's like this there were:Out of tens of millions, obviously there are quite a few. Clearly there's an agenda there, they could find "quite a few" from the other camp who now think they should've voted for "leave."
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-man_uk_576cf8e4e4b08d2c5638ee29
Considering quite a few have now cropped up on news coverage.
Out of tens of millions, obviously there are quite a few. Clearly there's an agenda there, they could find "quite a few" from the other camp who now think they should've voted for "leave."
Not by his reasoning. Polls had Remain in the lead and he voted to make sure they didn't win by too much.Yes, well, his reasoning is retarded. He didn't think his vote would matter. Well... it literally didn't. So what's the news here? BREAKING: HUMAN CHANGES MIND, MORE AT ELEVEN?
I know we live in an age where the wisdom of age is generally ignored in public life but let us not pretend that a lot of people do not actually grow wiser exponentially with experience. Many of you who are teenagers or in your early to mid-20s right now will most likely look back at your opinions in 10-20 years and grimace, as I probably will myself on a lot of issues throughout my life. Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Some also get more set in their ways but I think that is adequately balanced with the youthful arrogance in the opposite end of the age spectrum.
They mostly have no real world experience, its all well and good being young or a student and having an ideal but you dont have the responsibilities or experiences of your parents or theirs. Things that matter to you when you are 18-24 are in no way more important or superior to things that matter to people over 40 for instance. My views have totally changed since i was 18-20 (currently 28)
The fucking enourmous idiots. Goodbye GB, welcome England and Wales.
I read this whole thing as a crystal clear voice of the people: pls no more immigrants.
A subject which is anyway getting attention all over Europe and is assured to be reflected in upcoming elections. But u just couldn't wait a bit.
But the way it went down lol. Populist farage using the matter to get attention, Cameron greedily stealing voters on what he thought would never go down. Well now we're here, everybody looses. The plan was for Europe to stick to its guns, together. Against China, against US, against Russia, and everyone else that has something to gain from a weak Europe. Jesus moronic Brits. Self centered ignorant fools. I don't have words. In order to be patriotic, you have to reserve some patriotism for the greater part of the world which u also have a lot in common with. Namely Europe..
No EU mass immigration quotas means that the UK economy can only get better, and there will be better opportunities for immigrants who actually want to work imo. Immigrants and foreigners who want to work in the UK will no longer have to compete with a non-stop influx of workers who will undercut their pay and salaries so they can actually make a decent wage. As people said before I don't think leaving the EU has anything to do with a halt on foreigners and immigrants working in the UK, it just gives the UK more control over the situation which can only lead to a higher quality of living for all in the long run.
What life experience do you have Overdriven that means your vote should be more important than your parents? not picking on you just generalising. Why is what you want at your stage of life more important than what people 10-20 years older want?
I didnt vote leave due to immigration, that was a moot point for me as we will still take immigrants probably on a similar level with a points system but perhaps the system will be fairer on a worldwide bases meaning we dont discriminate against people outside of the EU in-favour of someone born in eastern europe for example. We always have and always will have immigration but the ability to tweak and control it to what we desire and need is important
I am however dead set against a political union and a European superstate
And, in a statement, German Chancellor Angela said: "There is no point beating about the bush: today is a watershed for Europe, it is a watershed for the European unification process."
That kind of thing is why i voted out it has nothing to do with me being a racist bigot or somehow too stupid to understand that a united Europe is best for us all.
But yes how stupid and moronic are we brits for holding different views to thomek
edit* If you want to blame anyone blame corbyn, Guy who the "youth" seem to gravitate too literally didnt want to remain and did as little as he could to convince labour supporters to vote to stay.
Yeah all the old people are the cause of the housing shortage, meanwhile, let's take hundreds of thousands more immigrants, those are absolutely not linked to the housing shortage in any manner. Mass immigration is an economic boon, in every respect, you'd have to be racist to think otherwise.
If the young wanted to remain so badly maybe they should have voted. Again, nowhere is the total number of votes per age bracket being taken into account, in this frenzied rush to pretend every single person under the age of 25 was pro-remain, the implication usually that they are more "educated" and "enlightened" than their older crusty, racist, white counterparts. Apparently 10% of the voting age population was enough to swing the vote entirely, for some strange, statistically mysterious reason.
They almost certainly will. We would be suicidal not to comply with the rules for the free market, which includes free movement. Add to that there's already an economic incentive for an influx of low paid workers. Politicians are never going to stop immigration. Not whilst business rely on it and economic growth is the goal. The UK could already control immigration from outside the EU if it wished. Guess why they haven't? Because there's no incentive too.
Yes slowly replacing your population with foreigners makes perfect sense, only an idiot would think otherwise. After all there's literally no difference at all, it's just people, homo sapiens, every single one interchangeable with the other, just numbers on a spreadsheet to make the numbers meet. Our elected officials aren't there to protect any sort of national identity or sovereingty, or protect it's people or it's culture, they're there to server the economic machine to the best of their abilities. Nation is such an obsolete concept in any case, amiright?
Im not sure on this point so if Germans could enlighten me to how strong a lobby the German car makers are? because we buy a hell of a lot of German vehicles and they would stand to lose out the most
Why don't you go campaign in Japan on such a premise? Try to convince them they must accept millions of more fertile foreigners, it is the only way they will survive. If you don't see how idiotically backwards your reasoning is I can't help you. But you're clearly a globalist bundle of sticks, so any attempt at logic will simply bounce off the blinders of naive optimism. This fantastic social "experiment" that will "advance the species" is happening ONLY IN THE WEST, nowhere else on the planet is fucking retarded enough to fall for it. "More and more mixed", WHERE? WHERE EXACTLY, YOU DISINGENUOUS CUNT? I feel like I'm in a communist madhouse or something. THE REVOLUTION WILL BE UNIVERSAL, COMRADE, IT IS INEVITABLE AND WILL BE GLORIOUS ADVANCEMENT FOR HUMAN SPECIES.
Considering the overwhelming majority of the Leaders of the World, a pack of villainous scum more lowly than the worst criminal, absolutely do not buy into your retarded delusions, yes. I'm sorry to tell you the West is not the planet. And lol at comparing some statistically negligible expats to the mass population replacement, cheered on wholeheartedly by people like you, in the West. How many of those even get the nationality of the country they stay in, you lying sack of shit?
Why don't you go campaign in Japan on such a premise? Try to convince them they must accept millions of more fertile foreigners, it is the only way they will survive. If you don't see how idiotically backwards your reasoning is I can't help you. But you're clearly a globalist bundle of sticks, so any attempt at logic will simply bounce off the blinders of naive optimism. This fantastic social "experiment" that will "advance the species" is happening ONLY IN THE WEST, nowhere else on the planet is fucking retarded enough to fall for it. "More and more mixed", WHERE? WHERE EXACTLY, YOU DISINGENUOUS CUNT? I feel like I'm in a communist madhouse or something. THE REVOLUTION WILL BE UNIVERSAL, COMRADE, IT IS INEVITABLE AND WILL BE GLORIOUS ADVANCEMENT FOR HUMAN SPECIES, MEANWHILE YOU MUST DO YOUR PART TO BRING IT ABOUT, WE ARE THE SEEDS OF FUTURE UTOPIA.
Example of someone who did not mix or learn from other civilizations:Yes, exactly. That's why people want a stop to senseless immigration; they don't want those who don't mix or learn from other civilizations in their countries. You've hit the nail on the head.(click to show/hide)
Off the top of my head I can't remember which country your from. But I'm sure as heck glad you're not in charge of it wherever it is.http://nocompulsion.com/muslim-biological-fallout-from-50-generations-of-first-cousin-marriages/
Get with the times. The world is smaller due to global communication, transport and other technological advances. You know you can communicate with someone across the world? It's quite remarkable. And you'll also find they aren't also all that different. The world is getting more and more interconnected, and that means populations will become more and more mixed. You're trying to hark back to a time long gone when you could just bury your head in the sand and pretend there wasn't much of a wider world out there than your nearest town and city and that everyone you knew was just like you.
I get the world is a scary place Oberyn and there are some scary people in it. But trying to fight global connections is utterly pointless and counter productive to our advance as a species.
Off the top of my head I can't remember which country your from. But I'm sure as heck glad you're not in charge of it wherever it is.
Get with the times. The world is smaller due to global communication, transport and other technological advances. You know you can communicate with someone across the world? It's quite remarkable. And you'll also find they aren't also all that different. The world is getting more and more interconnected, and that means populations will become more and more mixed. You're trying to hark back to a time long gone when you could just bury your head in the sand and pretend there wasn't much of a wider world out there than your nearest town and city and that everyone you knew was just like you.
I get the world is a scary place Oberyn and there are some scary people in it. But trying to fight global connections is utterly pointless and counter productive to our advance as a species.
Oberyn: If anything is destroying identities in this world it's US entertainment.. ;)
Mass population replacement. That's pretty rich. Good one Oberyn.
Depends on the country. Unfortunately I'm not an expert on nationality in all the countries of the world. I can give you India as an example though. If you marry an Indian you can get OCI status (overseas citizen of India) which gives you all rights except voting. Your children can get nationality of course. And if your a resident in India for 7 years you can apply for nationality. Pretty much the same as a lot of the Western world.
But for countries with an ageing population and falling birth rate it makes complete economic sense in every way. Precisely why Germany is so pro-immigration because there population has a natural decline due to birthrate.
You're right, that's such a ridiculous thing to say, after all if you have a group that is below replacement levels that, will be below replacement levels for the foreseeable future unless something drastic, such as perhaps not deliberately trying to destroy the nuclear family anymore, happens. And this group must receive permanent, constant infusions of new, more fertile groups to make up for the difference. How long until nothing remains of the original group? Of course that's exactly the point and the goal, but it is painted in glorious shades of utopianism, since obviously all racial and cultural differences will have merged into a united whole in the meantime, and the loss of the original group becomes meaningless. They will live on, in a way, in the same way the cow I had for lunch lives on in me.
The reason is economic, the consequences are far greater. You're acting like I just suggested aliens buttraped me when I showed you a simple mathematical certainty. Do you understand math? Statistics? Would you like me to demonstrate with various cups filled with liquid if that would help? I suspect you do understand, and it's clearly what is expected and hoped for by the globalist bundle of stickss such as you.
London's leading share index fell by 7%, or nearly 500 points, minutes after opening, reducing the paper value of its constituent companies by more than £120bn while the pound slumped to a 31-year low against the US dollar..
By late afternoon trading the FTSE 100 was just 1.8% lower - as investors recovered from the initial vote shock to draw breath and hunt down bargain stocks.
It closed 3.2% or 199 points down at 6138. It meant that £52bn in value was lost on the day however the FTSE had actually started the week on 6021 points - below Friday's close.
Stock markets on the continent fared worse amid the prospect of the UK, a country currently making up one sixth of total EU output, leaving the bloc.
Germany's Dax was down 6.8% and France's Cac 40 8% off at the close.
The Ibex in Spain shed 12.4% while Italy's Mib was also more than 12% lower
You're acting like it's some mental conspiracy theory and all they want to do is replace native populations. The fact of the matter is it's a change that will happen over 100s of years. It won't be quick and you'll be dead before it becomes noticeable. By which point your children and there children will see it as the norm.'The chief statistician yesterday identified a rise in immigration as the most significant social change in Britain of recent years.
Its kind of the reason why the "educated" are losing everywhere, because they lost the respect of everyone else, the "stupids".
'The chief statistician yesterday identified a rise in immigration as the most significant social change in Britain of recent years.
Len Cook, the former head of New Zealand's statistical service who took over as the UK national statistician in July, said population patterns through most of the 20th century had changed dramatically during the 1990s as migration became the main engine of population growth.'
'Mr Cook said "homegrown" population increases - the surplus of births over deaths - hugely exceeded net migration into the UK from 1900 to 1990. Indeed for much of the century there was a net outflow of people. But between 1991 and 1999 net immigration averaged 104,000 a year, compared with a homegrown population rise averaging 107,000.'
'Mr Cook said the change was particularly stark in the closing years of the century, when migration became the predominant demographic influence. Immigration overtook natural population growth in England and Wales in 1994-95. By 1998-99 net inward migration increased to 194,000, while natural population growth fell to 72,000. "This amounts to a huge shift in the importance of immigration to changes in the British population, with consequences for ethnic mix and age structure," he said.'
(source http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jan/25/race.world)
'About 70% of the population increase between the 2001 and 2011 censuses was due to foreign-born immigration. 7.5 million people (11.9 percent of the population at the time) were born abroad, although the census gives no indication of their immigration status or intended length of stay.'
(source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom)
Cornwall has issued an urgent plea for reassurance that it will not be worse off following the Brexit vote.
The county has received a "significant amounts" of funding from the EU for the past 15 years due to its "relatively weak economy".
But, after 56.5% of voters in the county chose to leave the Union, the council says it is now seeking urgent reassurance that money allocated to it will still be received.
Example of someone who did not mix or learn from other civilizations:Most sensible of course is to only mix and learn from cultures that are actually desirable - and in manageable numbers (below 5-10% of the population). People have no problems with people from civilized cultures, just see how well Asians are integrating in Europe, or how well we mix with each other and the US. What people refuse to put up with is mass immigration from some of the most backwards places on this Earth: Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. Spain translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years. Cultural points that can be felt in almost every aspect of their societies. And that is discounting Africa, which is even worse.(click to show/hide)
Oberyn: I agree shit shouldn't happen too fast. But u have to acknowledge isolationism had no future either. Especially I think there should be no tolerance for intolerant cultures. Besides Europe is mainly a trade and tool for European nations to stand strong together, not for destroying identities. If anything is destroying identities in this world it's US entertainment.. ;)
This makes old Vlad very happy :wink:
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https://twitter.com/jk_rowling
The crosses of St Andrew and St Patrick will come off of the union jack....Ulster will reunite with the south. Scotland will be free and independent, and both Ireland and Scotland will watch England reduced to the tiny insignificant little country it was 1000 years ago. The "empire" is finished and though God sometimes takes his time, sooner or later he gets around to righting wrongs.
Eirinn go Brach
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling
Interesting fact: The country has lost MORE money in the hours since the OUT result than it could ever save from not paying into the EU.
Where's Harry Potter gonna move now to?
The 'Leave' vote was based on sound logic and fact and was in every way just as valid as the 'Stay' campaign
As a sideline American viewer, I'm quite happy with the outcome.
Lost 2k probably, but eh, w/e. The weaker the EU, the more likely I can make fuck tons of cash.
Dont worry britain, we germans have a backup plan to reunite europe if the EU fails.Tests in the early 20th century were promising but need some adjustments. We are on it!
cos the EU is fucking crap
Maybe. But you see, that crap is the only big ass country on this planet with some potential to turn out alright. Rest already crossed the line of no return and they are fucked beyond belief. Some more, some less. But they are in pretty shit position anyway. EU had potential but blew it.
I am not sure if most voters realized that their vote on this is likely to make a way bigger difference for their daily lives than the general elections.
Honestly you strike me as speaking from a position where you dont really care what this actually means for the UK, you'll advocate anything that even remotely resembles voting 'i love my country! Yay!' out of principle even if it brings nothing else to the tableI care a lot about the UK. The day before the referendum I wrote in this very thread that I think I am more in favour of 'stay' in the hope the UK could help Denmark and other EU sceptic countries reform the institution into something better. But honestly I am ambivalent, like I am about my own country's membership, which I why I embrace the 'leave' aswell. The question is how reformable the EU really is. I don't buy that the EU is somehow necessarily better in economics and other aspects outright, there has been very conflicting reports on this and everything looks like the UK will get a 'special agreement' with the EU, anyway.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215Look at the US elections which have one of the lowest percentages in the western world of people actually voting, even for the presidential elections. 75 million Americans didn't vote in the 2008 presidential election for example and that was a year with one of the highest voter turnouts because of all the blacks coming out to vote Obama (largely for racist reasons). Perhaps another argument for closer democracy, people don't feel a part of the process when the the decisions are made in Washington or Brussels. As for the UK I think a lot of people really had doubts, which is understandable.
Just leaving this here for anyone eligible and interested.
''We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.''
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Just leaving this here for anyone eligible and interested.
''We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.''
1.3 of what, 16 million remain voters who've voted on a worthless petition? Accept the result. Respect democracy.
If they make another referendum it won't be a part of democracy?
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From the very outset of the Brexit debate, there were those—including former London Mayor Boris Johnson, who favors leaving—who suggested that a “Leave” vote might not, in fact, be a vote to fully leave, but a signal to Brussels that the United Kingdom demands a deeper renegotiation that results in more substantial opt-outs and other special treatment. This line of thinking was swiftly brushed aside, both by the prime minister, who needed the vote to look final, and by the “Leave” campaign, which couldn’t look as though it wanted out but only sort of.
The one that has been utterly quashed is what would happen if British voters opt to leave. Contrary to the prime minister’s insistence that “Leave” means go, it is perfectly imaginable that after such a vote, the EU would go into panic mode. It could very well step in with an offer of a meaningful renegotiation. A new deal’s makeup would depend both on what other EU members offer and also on who is in Downing Street this time next week.
The whole country—and indeed continent—will be in the realm of the unknowable. Perhaps it was always so. But for the United Kingdom and Europe, the only question is which variety of unpredictability we will choose.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Just leaving this here for anyone eligible and interested.
''We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.''
There's already a second petition on the UK Parliamentary website that has gotten up to 1,205,765 signatures. Created by William Oliver Healey, an activist with the English Democrats. Turns out the whole petition was a joke and he claims that it has been hijacked by 'sour grapes' remain supporters.
Honestly you strike me as speaking from a position where you dont really care what this actually means for the UK, you'll advocate anything that even remotely resembles voting 'i love my country! Yay!' out of principle even if it brings nothing else to the tableAnother point about this comment.
This reminds me of 2008 when all my friends gave me shit for not voting for Obama.with friends like these....:) u voted Ron Paul?:)
I'm not an expert, but I've read few things yes.But you didn't know Finland isn't protected by EU's mighty army?
(click to show/hide)
If you fail, you'll join eastern Europeans in their misery.
It is true that UK as much bigger economy should get much bigger deal and this whole ordeal should end in hugs and kisses and each side wishing other the best. However, that is not going to happen. UK does have a gameplan, I just forgot about it. Since they are leaving and that will put them in non favorable position their best bet is to make a big deal of it and maybe give others same idea. Because if they leave, then crash and burn, that will mean EU is right and they are dumb. It is better to work on splitting EU therefore making their decision right and reinstating them as some world leaders or whatever they believe they are. That's most likely they'll do now, and they are certainly skilled at it.
As things currently stands, UK have no capacity to become superpower of any sort. Those times are long gone. They can be strong independent country if they fix their internal issues. Despite what leave campaign said, EU helped UK a lot. Most of their poor areas were subsidized by EU. Those who voted against EU... now we'll see who will provide for them. London is fine and dandy, few other cities as well. Rest is no different from Slovakia for instance. They better prepare for Slovakian wages, those poor people from countryside because London won't finance them forever. Not now, when they essentially hurt London more than anyone else.
I've never said you are an idiot. You devour nationalism because it makes you feel good. That doesn't make you an idiot. You're well aware what you are doing and other options but you willfully choose that option. Like nicotine or drug addict. Idiot is the person who knows very little about anything but takes populist talk for granted. Idiots are ignorant, you are not. We have right wing politician in here who's university law professor, one of the best in whole country. Very smart dude, but he's a bit of irl troll who likes nationalism more than other options. He knows very well he's wrong but that doesn't stop him to pursue what he feels and likes. It's not matter of doing right, but doing what he wants.
I've never said you are an idiot. You devour nationalism because it makes you feel good. That doesn't make you an idiot. You're well aware what you are doing and other options but you willfully choose that option. Like nicotine or drug addict. Idiot is the person who knows very little about anything but takes populist talk for granted. Idiots are ignorant, you are not. We have right wing politician in here who's university law professor, one of the best in whole country. Very smart dude, but he's a bit of irl troll who likes nationalism more than other options. He knows very well he's wrong but that doesn't stop him to pursue what he feels and likes. It's not matter of doing right, but doing what he wants.Nationalism isn't just emotional. There's plenty of studies in sociology, modern and going all the way back to Durkheim. Tribalism (which nationalism is just another form of) is a well-known factor for societal development.
Lets have a quick look at all the most popular super serious petitions.
I heavily encourage you to read some of the petitions details and debates.
Oh fuck you, leave us out of this.
Laminated cards reading “Leave the EU - no more Polish vermin” were found in Huntingdon, north west of Cambridge.
Online petitions are always a good laugh, but probably not as much as people who think they mean or can accomplish anything. Checking the map from which the signatures originated for the Revote petition, it seems that a large number seem to be coming from Oxford and Cambridge. Funny that.You'd think these educated folk would know that you don't get to retake votes until your side wins. But apparently that logic makes perfect sense... after they've lost, anyway. 100% guaranteed they'd be ridiculing the "leave" voters if they tried to pull this same shit after losing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Just leaving this here for anyone eligible and interested.
''We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.''
You'd think these educated folk would know that you don't get to retake votes until your side wins. But apparently that logic makes perfect sense... after they've lost, anyway. 100% guaranteed they'd be ridiculing the "leave" voters if they tried to pull this same shit after losing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Just leaving this here for anyone eligible and interested.
''We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.''
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
Check this out.
Well, tbf, it is the EU way, so at least they're consistent. I don't think for a moment the butthurt wouldn't be as massive, perhaps a bit lesser because people expected the status quo to prevail, if the Remain side had won. The same very predictable people refusing to believe their side is not the majority, calling for recalls, redoes, revotes, re-anything, because this was clearly a miscarriage and mockery of democracy.The butthurt is always massive. Everyone who doesn't agree with them is albert einstein and this was the worst disaster since World War II according to our leftist scum :lol: I hope they keep crying racism and blaming the middle working class white man for all their problems, it will have the same effect as the Brexit and put Trump in the Whitehouse easily.
They have all those detailed statistics and break downs of reasons for voting a particular way a mere two days after the vote was finished? Impressive but not credible. Projecting much?
Well, tbf, it is the EU way, so at least they're consistent. I don't think for a moment the butthurt wouldn't be as massive, perhaps a bit lesser because people expected the status quo to prevail, if the Remain side had won. The same very predictable people refusing to believe their side is not the majority, calling for recalls, redoes, revotes, re-anything, because this was clearly a miscarriage and mockery of democracy.
Stability is underrated.
Status quo = working system where people live good lives
Change = no one fucking knows what to do now
I dont think changes are necessarily bad, nor changing nothing necessarily good.
Change for the sake of change and nothing more, when you live a good life (even if you don't appreciate it), doesn't seem to be the smartest move. And look at the main reason why leave voters wanted to leave the EU: “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. So basically: "let's change sth for the sake of change, no matter good or bad". Seems kinda unreasonable to me.It's not unreasonable, or for no reason. The immigrant crisis has shown the weakness of EU, and it's entirely reasonable that there are countries that want no part of their refugee quotas.
The 'leave' camp already tried it the night of the referendum because they knew the vote would be close, and at the time the 'leave' camp thought they'd lose by a narrow margin; 'if the vote is within 5% then it's not acceptable that we remain without another referendum'. Those words were quickly forgotten by that camp at 7am the following morning.
Since nobody's innocent of it, fuckit. Anyone living in the UK who strongly thinks this move will be harmful for the UK would be daft not to try. Since it's now up to the government whether or not they really leave, the more that can be put infront of Parliament that they have a legal obligation to discuss, the better.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
2.3 million and rising
I expect a healthy amount of 'buyers remorse', and even if not we'll still push to rejoin eventually when the current average-Joe pensioners have died out and been replaced by the current 'remain' generation. Just a matter of time. But if we can fast-track things or nip the issue in the bud that would be more efficient. It would take time to leave, it would take time + grovelling to get back in, eurgh.
For voters within the UK that wanted the UK to have more control, Britain first, whatever (makes more sense if you were over here hearing these tag-lines being used and overused). Within their lifetime, or even just a matter of years, they'll see the UK going from having a voice and input in European laws and policy, to not even having a say in laws and policy within areas of our own little island.
But, it's up the the UK voters whether or not they consider that to be a positive thing if and when it happens. Less relevant here because only a small % of people on this topic are UK voters, i'm not really a fan of 'i told you so' but i'll offer a hearty 'fuck you' when that time finally comes.
The 'leave' camp already tried it the night of the referendum because they knew the vote would be close
Finnish media headline: "Many Brits regretting their choice - online petition for a new vote gathered over 2 million signatures."
So retarded and obviously biased. Hurr durr, 18 million people voted they wanted to stay in the EU, and now that this petition has 2 million signatures that must mean lots of "leave" voters regret their decision.
Hahahaha, most of the sigs are probably not even from the UK, I was able to vote twice, once as Salad Fork and once as the King of England.
Its probably gonna be removed once they close the petition, IP checking isnt hard :wink:
Change = adaptation, good or bad
It's not unreasonable, or for no reason. The immigrant crisis has shown the weakness of EU, and it's entirely reasonable that there are countries that want no part of their refugee quotas.
Leave and Remain camps have their tards, but somehow I dont feel there would be that much drama if Remain had won; most of the 18-30 are those who pollute the web, and they voted Remain. At least you dont hear the 60+ SJWs a lot because they dont know what SJW is and cant use internet :mrgreen:
Just out of interest, how many of you non-brits have ever been to the UK?12
Just out of interest, how many of you non-brits have ever been to the UK?
Why is it so hard to admit that the Leave vote has mostly been cast by trash, though? A huge majority of those doing well for themselves are bound to have a personal reason to choose Remain. Be it due to frequent travel or commercial ties. Can't see a midlands jobless dude having those kinds of excuses, and the statistics are telling. It's amusing that UK poors voted Leave because they don't want to share "their" money with Poles, when richer UK citizens have pretty much exactly the same feeling towards the poor in general. Except in that case it's "solidarity" with people who decide to fuck their shit up.
If only they were as concerned as you are with your country's poor and disadvantaged. I'm sure you see nothing wrong with the "big parties" discouraging these poor dumb brutes who don't know what's good for them of their votes. How exactly do you think they would do that, Molly? Do you think calling them evil racists was "ignoring" them, or their usual MO when confronted with anyone not towing the usual retarded globalistic, multiculti party line? Too bad the "mob" you have such deep contempt for are starting to give zero fucks about your favourite shaming tactics. Oh well, back to the drawing board, I'm sure insulting their intelligence some more will yield fantastic results.
You have those who claim the young were crushed by the old vote (as if somehow all young people think like them)
The future of the young was not hijacked. The "young" just didn't care enough to vote.
image big so spoilerd it(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
36% of 18-24 voted, If the turnout was so low how could they blame the old? Blame our own age group for the result
what was worse?
The vile ranting about people who dared to vote Conservative in the last General Election (i seem to remember a lot of the same disgusting uneducated ruining the world type rants)
The vile ranting about people who dared to vote Leave in the referendum.
You have every right to be upset with the result of a vote but calling everyone who isn't the same as you as uneducated idiot bigots and trash sounds a hell of a lot like Far right extremist speech.
Seems to me those on the left share more in common with those on the right than they care to admit.
You have those who claim the young were crushed by the old vote (as if somehow all young people think like them)
The future of the young was not hijacked. The "young" just didn't care enough to vote.
image big so spoilerd it(click to show/hide)
from sky
% who got through our final #EUref poll turnout filter by age group:
18-24: 36%
25-34: 58%
35-44: 72%
45-54: 75%
55-64: 81%
65+: 83%
36% of 18-24 voted, If the turnout was so low how could they blame the old? Blame our own age group for the result
vs people harassing foreign-looking people in the streets, at work, etc etc as if the Leave vote meant it was totally cool to intimidate strangers, other kids at school, your work colleagues, etc etc
Wasn't aware of this, any links? Wouldn't be surprised if tensions are high. I similarly predict a wave of violence against the elderly, after the intense demonization of the last few days.
Unfortunate side effect, the Leave vote being driven and polluted partially by racism.
I dont think leftists are going to brutalize the elderly with more than words, would be very surprising, much more than the far-right gloaters.
I guess my first-hand experience of immigrants is a little different to yours. The anti-immigration 'propaganda' doesn't match up with the people I know and encounter every day. Being a highly-skilled immigrant doesn't stop people from racially abusing you and telling you to go back to your own country. Even being from this country doesn't mean much to some of the people who have been harassing people of colour.
I'd much rather it was all unfounded propaganda though.
Don't fall for his ebul immigrants argument. That's only that matter to him in this whole mess. Doesn't give two fucks about Britain, Europe or millions of people whose businesses will crash because of Brexit. People who were dependent on UK being part of EU. But no it is way important that pensioner living in some far away English village, unhappy by fact that capitol is run by brown skinned man, get to vote for independence therefore fucking over thousands of people and their families.
Who gives a fuck about real world struggles when we can worry about something so important like national identity and heritage?
The "arguements" of the Remain camp were 100% race baiting propaganda before the vote even started, and went into overdrive once they realized they lost, but keep pretending I'm just bringing these things up out of the ether because of some sort of compulsive need.
Don't fall for his ebul immigrants argument. That's only that matter to him in this whole mess. Doesn't give two fucks about Britain, Europe or millions of people whose businesses will crash because of Brexit. People who were dependent on UK being part of EU. But no it is way important that pensioner living in some far away English village, unhappy by fact that capitol is run by brown skinned man, get to vote for independence therefore fucking over thousands of people and their families.
Who gives a fuck about real world struggles when we can worry about something so important like national identity and heritage?
It's difficult to tell but some places are already getting a bit jumpy about the upcoming lack of EU subsidies, like Cornwall for example.
Those subsidies are just a small rebate on the UK's high contributions that most other nation's don't have to pay. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland all trade within the single market and contribute very little to the EU budget, Norway contributes 400 million and has full access to the EU market, the UK contributes 17 billion to receive the same treatment.
We pay, but have no say: that’s the reality of Norway’s relationship with the EU (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/27/norway-eu-reality-uk-voters-seduced-by-norwegian-model)Well, that was just about the most pointless thing I've read in a while. It seems to assume that UK wants to do everything different than the EU does, just to be contrary. Which is a moronic assumption. And because Norway does a lot of things the same was as EU (three quarters), it'd be stupid for the UK to leave. When, in point of fact, it's that last quarter that's important and what it's all about.
https://imgur.com/a/tTe5d#NHUniCm
https://imgur.com/a/tTe5d#NHUniCmI don't get what the shocking part about this is. Yes, there are shitty human beings on the #Brexit side. There are shitty humans beings everywhere.
https://imgur.com/a/tTe5d#NHUniCm
Politicians anyway joined EEC, by some judged to be like high treason, and Schengen ofc. In almost every practical, visible aspect we are part of the EU. We also have no Say at all. Of 6000 eu regulations we have made only 55 exceptions.
Britain, on the other hand, is flat, well connected to Europe, has a language everyone speaks, replaced their old industry with services and tech, in other words, a perfect EU country. There is no fundamental difference in economy compared to France or Belgium.
Pls stop this ridiculous comparison. No, Britain will not become a second Norway. And I personally think this is the beginning of the end for GREAT britain.
Well we are first of all about 10 times less people than GB, so a fraction would make sense..
Ok so EU officials etc, people are buying into this crap about EU being this mindless bureaucracy. It consists of the diplomats of each member, and they mostly decide on reasonable shit. If you had been to Britain, you would see how incredibly backwards it really is, and how they wouldn't take damage from some modern thinking.
I'm talking doorhandles turning off the light when you open the door because it hits the switch with the handle, I'm talking 2 tap style for scolding hot and ice cold water, I'm talking driving on the left, I'm talking this:(click to show/hide)
I was honestly surprised about the backwardsness of the whole place. The hobbit-size houses, where not 1 fucking wall is straight. The trashyness of the working class, whose hobby it is to break bottles on the street and throw shit into other peoples properties. The constant drinking and the class hate. (both ways) Add in the weather and the humidity, together with badly ventilated and cold brick housing causing mold to be a normal thing. The notoriously ugly women.. Ok should i stop now?? :D
I understand why Britain left. The poor and perpetually lower class population is brainwashed by the universally accepted "worst press in the world." Easing the pain of their constant self-guilt for being white loosers by blaming others.
Pls stop this ridiculous comparison. No, Britain will not become a second Norway. And I personally think this is the beginning of the end for GREAT britain.No one is saying the UK will literally become a second Norway. What people mean is that like Norway, the UK could be perfectly fine without the EU. The UK is too big of a player in Europe to not get very favorable trade deals etc even if it's not in the European Union.
Man behind 2nd EU referendum petition was actually a leave supporter (http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/the-petition-for-a-second-eu-referendum-was-started-by-a-right-wing-activist-5967021/#)"The referendum was fairly funded; democratically endorsed, every vote was weighted equally and I believe this was a true reflection of the mood of the country." What a hypocritical cunt, starts this thing when his side appeared to be losing and now considers the referendum perfect.
"The referendum was fairly funded; democratically endorsed, every vote was weighted equally and I believe this was a true reflection of the mood of the country." What a hypocritical cunt, starts this thing when his side appeared to be losing and now considers the referendum perfect.
All in all I am enjoying myself watching this all unfold, it got people properly riled up.
On an unrelated note, only fucking racists don't want to shower compassion and support on poor foreigners who come to our shores looking for a better life, their poverty is an external factor that is entirely our fault, the disgustingly backward mores they bring with them will adjust in time. Redeemable trash, since they are not white. Any white person who is still poor, because white people are so clearly an ethnic overlord class of the entire planet, obviously is just inherently worthless and can be dismissed as the subhumans they are.
https://imgur.com/a/tTe5d#NHUniCmReading these tweets makes me sad I'm not in England right now, sounds like there would be lots of fun to be had by speaking a bit of Polish in public. That is, if the racism is as wide spread as these tweets make it appear. That's a funny thing these days, isn't it? You can make people believe almost anything if you know how to play the social media game. And that hasn't gone unnoticed by many organizations, who have people researching this shit and then abusing it.
From the very outset of the Brexit debate, there were those—including former London Mayor Boris Johnson, who favors leaving—who suggested that a “Leave” vote might not, in fact, be a vote to fully leave, but a signal to Brussels that the United Kingdom demands a deeper renegotiation that results in more substantial opt-outs and other special treatment. This line of thinking was swiftly brushed aside, both by the prime minister, who needed the vote to look final, and by the “Leave” campaign, which couldn’t look as though it wanted out but only sort of.
...About a third of what was claimed by the Leave campagne. If they would get rid of the utter useless royals, they could get that in easily. I only have some numbers from a few years back which were 4.5 billion pounds per year for the queen's castles, hat collection and stuff :shock: :lol:.
Correct me if i'm wrong but from what I've read the UK contributes more money to the EU then they get back from it by a longshot. ...
...The costs of refugees and immigrants is mainly done by the countries they are in and not much comes from the EU in these terms.
I'm sure the large contributions to the EU the UK pays all goes into maintaining better EU market conditions, but for who? Refugees? Immigrants? France? Germany? China? Who decides? Non-elected officials.
if britain leaves Schengen, it is not only them then buidling a wall around their country, but the whole of europe may just give them the middle finger.
About a third of what was claimed by the Leave campagne. If they would get rid of the utter useless royals, they could get that in easily. I only have some numbers from a few years back which were 4.5 billion pounds per year for the queen's castles, hat collection and stuff :shock: :lol:.
Xant claims sockpuppet upon unsavoury "allies".You claim there are no sockpuppets? What "allies"?
I've know you more original than that.
Maybe Overdriven and Tomas could tell us is post Brexit racism really a thing or just an internet hoax.
(click to show/hide)
Add to that, the majority of MPs are remainers and may well not rattify it in parliament.
Scotland would have to apply for membership after we leave and if they vote for independence which Spain would probably veto to stop the catalans declaring independence.One step at a time. First Scottland would need to get a referendum through anyways.
You know we are not and never have been members of Schengen right?
@Voncrow
don't get me wrong, i was 5 times in England and found the royal sights quite interesting and i am not hating that stuff by default, i just find it useless. Also answer me this, if all the lands and the castles would be in the hands of "private owners" or state owned, would they return less or more profit? There is a certain amount of guess work in this answer as is in the youtube vid you presented
Labour are crumbling. 14 cabinet members now resigned :lol:
What the fuck would you even know about the statistics? Want to trott out some more of the blatantly misleading, eagerly swallowed bullshit that's been making the rounds? So much pandering to the ironic and totally undeserved sense of intellectual superiority of a bunch of easily fooled and manipulated morons.
Maybe Overdriven and Tomas could tell us is post Brexit racism really a thing or just an internet hoax.
Hey Oberyn check this out
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/
and check this one out this one is pretty cool as well :):):)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
:):)))) xx
It's a place I would live, if it wasn't for all the germans! :D
that arguement is silly though.
how can you have a plan that isnt "negotiate our exit and see where we go from then"
The leave campaign isnt the govt so they cant say what they will do because they dont have the power to do it.
Thats like me never quitting a job because i dont know exactly what the next one will be
Comparing apples and oranges. London is more like New York or Paris. All these other american cities on the graph are either part of the Rust Belt or incredibly sprawled out megalopolis with a much lesser population density. Of course the housing market is dissimilar. The odd one out is Silicon Valley, for obvious reasons.
True for every business. The pound losing some of it's value is going to be good for exports, not so much for imports. Good thing the UK has control over it's own monetary policy and isn't bound by EU treaties, eh?
But hey, if our government is particularly fast and efficient about it we might almost end up as stable as we were in the first quarter of this year.
What an accomplishment! (and a fairly big *if*)
Borrowing a line from librettist WS Gilbert: “Things aren’t always as they seem. Skim milk masquerades as cream.”
Venezuelan extremists wanting democratically elected President Nicolas Maduro ousted stacked their recall petition with hundreds of thousands of fraudulent signatures – some fake names, others deceased, as well as minors too young to vote, discrediting the legitimacy of their campaign.
Britain is following suit. Anti-Brexit proponents petitioning parliament for a second referendum so far collected around 3.5 million signatures since Friday – a red flag. This many this fast suggests something rotten.
Signatures include already discovered tens of thousands of fake names from America, Germany, France, Italy, other EU countries, even Middle East, Asian, Latin American and African nations as well as virtually uninhabited Antarctica.
Despite its population of less than one thousand, 41,118 signatures came from Vatican City as of Sunday afternoon, nearly 25,000 from North Korea.
According to a House of Commons petition committee spokeswoman, fraud is so rampant it’s already removed 77,000 signatures, likely many more to come. Perhaps most are fake.
The European Union will not hold informal talks with the UK until it triggers Article 50 to leave, Germany, France and Italy have insisted.
Would you quit a job with nothing else lined up if you had a large number of dependents who rely on your income?
That would be irresponsible
Rest of the brief article is over here. (http://www.globalresearch.ca/second-uk-referendum-petition-rife-with-fraud-gush-of-fake-names/5533083)
Just came across it. Wanted to share.
Could you stick to what I actually write, for once? At this rate I could claim that you want to gas all brown people. You whine all the time about people screaming racist yet you do the exact same thing.
Generally financial publications are some of the most trustworthy there is. Money people are interested in real news.
Also.. fantastic of Iceland conquering England once again! It's almost foreshadowing the insignificance of England.
As many things coming from USA, that seemed fabricated and hardly believable from day one. Fake emotional stories in same vein like Jerry Springer and Maury Povich shows.looks fake :D
Post Brexit stories are something I can identify with and witnessed on many occasions in real life. That is why I'm inclined to believe those are mostly true.
EU leaders reject informal talks with UK (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36644211)
UK is currently nowhere. They aren't out but have no say in any matter regarding EU and to extent their own future. They have to trigger Article 50 to move on, but there isn't politician in England who is willing to do so.
It's almost foreshadowing the insignificance of England.
looks fake :D
European diplomats have dismissed claims from Boris Johnson that the UK could negotiate access to the EU single market without obeying any of the rules.
“You cannot have your cake and eat it,” said an EU diplomat, echoing a phrase the former mayor of London used during the campaign and which looks set to come back to haunt him.
Eh, why do you think it's the EU pressuring them into doing it? Have you been paying attention to the markets? As much as the media love to focus on their little narratives, it's the fucking countries still in the EU who are getting fucking pounded, much worse than the UK. Not like they can do much about that, given the, you know, centralized red tape-festooned monetary policy controlled by Germany.
Eh, why do you think it's the EU pressuring them into doing it? Have you been paying attention to the markets? As much as the media love to focus on their little narratives, it's the fucking countries still in the EU who are getting fucking pounded, much worse than the UK. Not like they can do much about that, given the, you know, centralized red tape-festooned monetary policy controlled by Germany.
I guess one part of me is glad to be out of the EU because so many Europeans love to hate the English, well fuck ya, we're taking our Football home so no one can play and make fun of us.
Well fuck you, it's not over by a long shot and enough of Parliament and the country feels the same way to make this an incredibly interesting few months. If you're getting tired of all the bitching and tears then get used to it, you're not going to hear about anything else for a long time.
If it's up to us on this forum to hatch a plan lol
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12DCE/production/_90126277_sterling_value_624gr-2.png
Mmm, real tired of all the bitching and tears. Why cant people just be happy with their devalued currency and constitutional crisis? The vote is done. From 1.5 dollars to the pound to below 1.35
Well fuck you, it's not over by a long shot and enough of Parliament and the country feels the same way to make this an incredibly interesting few months. If you're getting tired of all the bitching and tears then get used to it, you're not going to hear about anything else for a long time.
If you plan to do anything abroad this summer, consider the above graph your 10% pay cut that retroactively applies to everything currently in your bank. Unless we've managed to destabilise the Euro an equivalent amount in which case you'd best visit somewhere in the EU. But hey, maybe in the medium or long-term it'll raise slowly back to nearly the same level.
A lot of small businesses in my area have just bit the bullet and paid the new higher price for ordering the goods they need as prices creep up in relation to the sinking pound. If and when businesses start to pass on that cost to the customer, it really will be a 10% pay cut for the country. But hey, at least we escaped the 'shit fest' of the EU, boy did that effect me negatively on a daily basis. Democracy wins, oh so *winning* right now.
Boo hoo, you should change your name to Bleeding Heart Heskey. Seriously, both sides have scare mongered at points throughout this whole ordeal, now the remain side, they are doing it again, "our pound will never recover" etc, like you or the majority of people in this Country have any idea what will actually happen to the pound over the next year and the years to follow, bunch of armchair politicians and economists pouring their heart out because they didn't get the result they wanted. Everyone's mostly flinging shit around with nothing worth saying actually being said.
The fact is, this was a vote, it was voted on and this is the result, I DID NOT vote Leave, but I sure as hell do not agree with them just saying "Ok guys even though the Leave vote won, we are going to pretend that never happened because the Remain voters are really upset", because that is not how our system works and shits on the credibility of any major future votes.
"BUT MUH TRAVELS!!!", Yeah, Holidays and traveling is a luxury, not a necessity. The only major concern here is surviving and I am confident that I am not about to drop dead because of this vote.I work hard for my money, to put food in my kids mouths and to have a roof over their heads, if I have to work a little harder for the next few years then I will, but I don't believe our Country is now doomed because of this vote like all the Remain campaigners would like everyone to think.
The real problem here seems to stem from all the uncertainty in the financial world - nobody knows what will happen, there doesn't seem to be a concrete plan either. And most of the investors don't invest into uncertainty.
Soros [is] rarely wrong
Nah a plan that politicians or experts would hatch, that we could comment. Is anyone at least trying to formulate one in the UK? I've read nothing on that thread about it, even though to me it seems its the first logical step after the referendum (apart from denying it happened, like in your gif :mrgreen:).
Brexit options for UK:(click to show/hide)
Hey, that gif aptly describes what Cameron is apparently attempting to do right now, saying they won't begin the process for another two months.
Nah a plan that politicians or experts would hatch, that we could comment. Is anyone at least trying to formulate one in the UK? I've read nothing on that thread about it, even though to me it seems its the first logical step after the referendum (apart from denying it happened, like in your gif :mrgreen:).
Cheer up guys. If the Pound stays in the basement at least England's balance of trade will really improve and tourists will flood the country. Lots and lots of Americans, Chinese and Euro tourists milling about. Not all bad eh?
It seems for most people voting 'leave' it was a cultural vote not economic, anyway, so we can only hope they won't be too disappointed in this department.
Nigel Farage belittling the EU parliament as well, very mortifying:What a joke :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlN9o3g-yuA
A ~10% national pay-cut with an acute increase in taxes for the near foreseeable future. Well at least Britain has 1/2 of it's 'national pride' back.
Nigel Farage belittling the EU parliament as well, very mortifying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlN9o3g-yuA
And then Alyn Smith, our MEP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZONWQ8VOOg
True dat. Those who had means to visit England are doing that for a decades. Those who don't, won't magically become capable of financing nice trip to British capital. If anything, it is about become harder for them to visit UK. Also pound failing have effect on everybody which means together, we'll be a bit poorer than we are now. So nothing changes. Until Trump makes Murica great again :mrgreen:
You're quite the "sky is falling" kind of guy. Nothing's even happened yet you wet the bed.
Farage was quite right about all those overpaid and bloated EU bureaucrats. Most of them probably have never done a day's real work. I thought he was quite humorous.
It's the same kind of typical confrontational British Parliament speeches that has been his trademark in the EU for years, people are used to it and the people laughing generally seem to find it entertaining. I do aswell.He's actually a very skilled orator.
From 2010 and 2011:
He's actually a very skilled orator.Yes, I think he is one of the better orators in contemporary politics.
Chances are that, because of his speech, some butt-hurt people at the top will decide to fully support impending break of United Kingdom. To the point where they'll finance groups who'll work on it. Like they did in other third world countries. Unless USA leaders oppose to that, but think no one digs small fish trying to act tough. EU project is fully backed by USA, from day one.
Also lol at idiots who believe that UK in two days has secured five, brand new trade agreements with foreign countries...
Of course Leshma, the CIA, Interpol and Mossad infiltration cells have been triggered, and are working on it even as we speak. Or, and I know this is outlandish and crazy, but giving a look at the map of UK with stay/leave votes by area, it really wouldn't take much to cause a 2nd independence referendum by Scotland. So far any negotiations between Scotland and the EU have been rebuffed, so if the EU isn't going for this much, much simpler option for breaking up the UK, I don't think any nefarious secret missions to topple the monarchy and make Scotland rise up in fire and blood are in the works.
Boris Johnson had a genius idea to rebuild Stonehenge but this time 3 times bigger to sort out the big national pride/culture deficit that the Tory party has inherited. However, closer scrutiny post-referendum has revealed that Boris does not indeed have any stones.
If Britain is even slightly worse off than before this referendum, then what was the point?
It doesnt need to be apocalyptically bad in order for me to want to know what possible reason the retarded 'leave' party had for making things even slightly worse. Why should i have to bear the shortsightedness and stupidity of other voters? And if people like Lessin dont give a shit that's fine, just throw 10% of your own money in a river somewhere and achieve the same thing but leave everyone else to get on with it.
@Leesin
'What's done is done, dont cry about it'.
Dont count your chips now, we arent out of the EU yet cocksucker
Boris Johnson had a genius idea to rebuild Stonehenge but this time 3 times bigger to sort out the big national pride/culture deficit that the Tory party has inherited. However, closer scrutiny post-referendum has revealed that Boris does not indeed have any stones.
If Britain is even slightly worse off than before this referendum, then what was the point?
It doesnt need to be apocalyptically bad in order for me to want to know what possible reason the retarded 'leave' party had for making things even slightly worse. Why should i have to bear the shortsightedness and stupidity of other voters? And if people like Lessin dont give a shit that's fine, just throw 10% of your own money in a river somewhere and achieve the same thing but leave everyone else to get on with it.
@Leesin
'What's done is done, dont cry about it'.
Dont count your chips now, we arent out of the EU yet cocksucker
Yes, I think he is one of the best orators in contemporary western politics.
As an aside, British Parliament banter in general is very colorful:
I just hope they remember Farage when they're looking for a new scapegoat.
The strength of the pound in the short term totally trumps not wanting a unified European state.
I guess it's the snowball effect that this short term weakness can produce; people taking money out of English banks, corporations pulling investments out of the UK (job loss, revenue loss). Corporations like Nissan etc have contingency plans in place, and their are rumours/instances of companies following suit (I cba to find the sources, but i'm sure it's happening- correct me if i'm wrong).
The argument lies in the "we should've had a plan for this before we did it" rather than the current "we don't have a plan, let's just wing it".
David Cameron is actually one of the best at this game. Everyone thought Corbyn would put him in his place when he came into PM questions. But Cameron just made him look silly and out of place. Milliband was just God awful at it.There's a difference between making someone look silly and just plain slinging insults at people, David Cameron is and always will be a shit Prime Minister, the only thing he did well was insulting Corbyn and wasting everybodies time during the PM's questions by not actually answering any of the questions given to him in the first place.
Bercow is also one of the best speakers I've seen in a while. He knows quite well when to let the banter continue but also when to bring it under control.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-BrexitIt's also media, so it also has a 95% chance of being complete bullshit
This is interesting
I think the lack of a plan has been my biggest beef with it all. The snowball effect is all ifs so we don't really know how things will go but the government having no plans in place is just terrible. Sure it was never looking likely until it happened but they have to prepare for the worst in these situations...
When you have a government that hoped and expected a Remain vote, and then decides to basically punt the issue to someone else(Classic Politics, btw), how can you actually do something to get ready for it?Maybe by not sitting on their asses and hoping like hell they get the result they want or they're fucked? A government should have a plan for BOTH routes, not just the one they WANT. They're a bloody government for fucks sake, if they can't get off their asses and figure out even a small plan for the future if we were to leave the EU in the referendum, which has now happened, then they shouldn't BE in power in the first place. (That being said, it's not surprising given that the current government are absolute shit. I'm sure David Cameron would rather have a temper tantrum than actually prepare for something that could have happened)
Politicans will sit there, play politics until someone finally gets enough gumption to go through with it or to say "Fuck it, no". Oh, btw, they'll all make lots of money during this whole process.
There's a difference between making someone look silly and just plain slinging insults at people, David Cameron is and always will be a shit Prime Minister, the only thing he did well was insulting Corbyn and wasting everybodies time during the PM's questions by not actually answering any of the questions given to him in the first place.
It's also media, so it also has a 95% chance of being complete bullshit
They're a bloody government for fucks sake, if they can't get off their asses and figure out even a small plan for the future if we were to leave the EU in the referendum, which has now happened, then they shouldn't BE in power in the first place.
Took you that long to figure it out? That is probably the most annoying thing you can bring to any cRPG discussion, off-topic or on-topic. I should put explanation in my personal signature space so that people stop asking about it.It was mainly because I wasn't on the forums as much, I never saw you post twice right next to each other meaning there wasn't a way for me to see the difference. Either way 10/10
For the n-th time: chadz/cmp/harald/funny-guy-supreme-overlord displeased with my bad attitude, broken logic and complete lack of manners decided to create ultimate weapon which will thwart my forum domination plans. Those plans were fairly simple, maintain universal balance by shitposting then acting smart to get equal amount of + and - and become first shemale person who ever reached 2000 reknown in both areas. However, I didn't keep that secret because frankly, I'm unable to keep anything secret. They found out, wrote nifty randomizer script which perfectly reflects my mental state and serves as reminder of my first forum title (some of us cool kids were graces by supreme rulers twice). No matter what I say, do or spit on this white electronic paper in front your eyes, it won't reflect on my reknown counter. Because it is randomly generated every time you reload this page.
That was long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, before you even were born and Heskey hasn't yet became a thing and Xant was just a normal player from Finland. NA1 was still great back then and there was no need for Donal Trump.
Satisfied?
Pound recovering, Mexico wants to trade with UK, BoJo won't be PM. On the other side of the channel, Italy is going bankrupt cuz lazy like Greeks but prefer lavish lifestyle. By the looks of things, UK could end in better position than rest of mainland, five years from now.
Even though it's a very simple slapstick way of humiliating the British people, his agenda is clear in some regards.
It is very very humiliating what has happened.
You speak like if the other individual countries doesnt have red tape to deal with when looking for deals, and also like if individual countries within the EU cant do any trade by themselves. There's been tons of deals from within the EU to the rest of the world...
And the old one on regions being unequal then impossible to unite lacks arguments. There is tons of imbalances within one country, but it doesnt secede for this unique reason.
That's a bit of a crass assumption isn't it? My posts aren't like that at all, at most they show an ostensibly discerning forecast. I'm just saying what is actually happening, if you can provide any evidence to tell me that i'm wrong please do so- but please read all of my posts on this matter first, i'm fully aware we are in economic uncertainty.
that guy is supposed to be funny? O.oI seriously hope nobody other than you wants Gove to be PM or we're fucked.
Seems BoJo dropped out of the race for tory leader. Id bet my house on May right now but i would like Gove to be PM
The following quote from you is based on what basis other than breathless speculation?:
"A ~10% national pay-cut with an acute increase in taxes for the near foreseeable future. Well at least Britain has 1/2 of it's 'national pride' back."
What happened to you mate, you used to be a top cunt, calling my son a retard because he couldn't eat yoghurt, now you seem like an automated political response bot, what the fuck did they do to you in education? I want the old tizzango back.
The following quote from you is based on what basis other than breathless speculation?:
Grytviken you are so misinformed it's becoming ridiculous.
Half the point of the EU is to remove "Red Tape"
Can you even imagine the chaos if 28 countries would hustle deals unilaterally with each other? The horror it is for trade and efficiency? The possibilities for corrupt politicians to flourish? Just imagine the united states with all the states putting tarrifs and embargos on each other..
The only answer for such a small, but fragmented region as Europe to work well within itself, is a strong central authority. Yes it is slow, but at least the member states eventually agree on 1 thing at the time. It's also not undemocratic, all decisions are made in each states government, their diplomats in Brussels representing their respective nations.
However, instead of being very condescending; i'll tell you that the worth of the pound has dropped and you should be able to work out why people are effectively receiving a pay cut.
Put that economics handbook in todays perspective, will ya? We live in a globalized world where majority of things we buy is produced in one country (China). Because how capitalism works and because of complexity of processes used in pretty much every industry today, it is not possible to start producing goods in our native countries. We don't have the tech, we don't have enough personnel, we don't have resources and even if we do, we aren't keen on extracting them on our soil. Lastly, we want to be paid well for our job and them Chinese still do it for less money. Actually people in Serbia can compete with them when it comes to salaries, but we don't have anything else to offer.
Due to strained relationship between government of your country and China you're actively seeking someone to replace them. Your best bet is India, but they are too far from being able to compete with Chinese on many fronts. Maybe in few decades, but short and medium term we all are stuck with Chinese being our only manufacturer.
What do you suggest British to produce, now they are free? Which goods? You're advocating same communists did for decades, rely on our own food, our own industry, buy home made products say no to imported goods. Well, it just doesn't work that well.
You are totally incorrect. In fact, even if "everything" is made in China(which it isn't, but that's not suiting your narrative), China has to compete with local markets even in a "Global" world. If the local markets do not want (or cannot afford, which is also the case) the "cheap" Chinese goods, then China looses out. In fact, it's only cheap if they produce large quantities of it. China cannot make specialty (small scale) cheaper than elsewhere.
Also, China isn't the only "cheap" place. There's many countries that can do that (India, for example), that even amongst them, there is competition. China doesn't produce many "finished" products,either, merely the parts that go into them. Course, this doesn't fit your narrative, so you'll find some way to discredit it anyways.
Shut up bitch, you're nuttin but a gay fish. You too Oberyn, if you're reading which I know you are.
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Nerds. I'm out.
You are totally incorrect. In fact, even if "everything" is made in China(which it isn't, but that's not suiting your narrative), China has to compete with local markets even in a "Global" world. If the local markets do not want (or cannot afford, which is also the case) the "cheap" Chinese goods, then China looses out. In fact, it's only cheap if they produce large quantities of it. China cannot make specialty (small scale) cheaper than elsewhere.
Also, China isn't the only "cheap" place. There's many countries that can do that (India, for example), that even amongst them, there is competition. China doesn't produce many "finished" products,either, merely the parts that go into them. Course, this doesn't fit your narrative, so you'll find some way to discredit it anyways.
Gets shown economics 101. leaves when it doesn't suit narrative.
Leshma's narrative is schizophrenic, he's already gone from "the sky is faaaaallling, UK destroyed it's economy, the EU is laughing at them" to "Hm, looks like the UK might get out of this in even better shape than the rest of the EU". Discussing politics with Leshma is pointless, his thought process seems to be driven entirely by the latest shitty article he read. Lesham reads Infowars? ZOMG EU is preparing wet ops to destroy the UK. Leshma reads regressive media? ZOMG Brexit is an economic disaster and those who voted leave are abysmal retards, UK is never going to do trade deals with anyone, only brainwashed people believe that. Leshma reads the Wall Street Journal? The pound bounced back and UK has many trade deals lined up, scoff, everyone knows that.
Just the news mate, just the news and quotes from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Just those two sources mate.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-06-28/george-osborne-we-will-absolutely-have-to-cut-spending-and-raise-taxes/I'll pose you a question, cause it's better to work it out on your own: Why would someones currency being worth less mean that they effectively have less money?
However, instead of being very condescending; i'll tell you that the worth of the pound has dropped and you should be able to work out why people are effectively receiving a pay cut.
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EU commissioners are a super-national appointed cabinet, not a democratically elected body,
EU legislation which is a non-democratic process.
Dude stop, you have no idea what you're talking about, it's embarrassing really.
If you call the nomination of commissioners undemocratic then you are pretty much calling every EU member state undemocratic at the national level.
So what you're saying is that EU member state's national parliaments have no power to propose or ratify laws?
Reading comprehension though.
Once again you're comparing a super-nationally appointed commission to a democratically elected parliament. It's not a matter of reading comprehension because what you stated was false information to start with. EU legislation is not comparable to EU member state national legislation and that's just fact. EU member state national MP's are allowed to propose legislation, EU parliament members are not.
Whats so undemocratic about it? Technically Kafein is right. A commissioner is elected into the commission by each state. That is democratic. What dont you like about it? I dont understand why do you keep saying that they arent elected. They clearly are. And they cant serve a single nations or persons interest, so you comparing this to US president appointing his own governments power to whoever he likes is most retarded and couldnt be any more false. So tell me mr "its undemocratic", whose purpose, other than the unions, could they possibly serve if the commission is incapable of serving a single person or nation? A corporations? If every country elects a commissioner who works for Apple than clearly the whole Europe wants to be enslaved by Apple. And we all made that choice democratically.
I still completely do not understand what you do not like. A democratic government of a member state elects a commissioner. That guys all ties to its former government are technically removed. It can only serve the Union. Thats it. And what about those ties to commerce and industry sectors? Those are practically worthless. If over half of the commission has the exactly same ties than thats some reason to be concerned. But that is incredibly unlikely. Because each commissioner comes for each different democratically elected government. If the majority of the EU commission is a fraud, most of the democratic governments of Europe are frauds too, in which case it doesnt really matter anymore, does it. :rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference
Well Nigel Fuckage just resigned as UKIP Führer. Lel
(click to show/hide)
"I work hard – seven days a week.
"I work 24/7 but more ladies coming from back home will not be good for me here.
"They will be sleeping with men for just £10."
Anna revealed that she charges £30 for a 20-minute "quickie" or £50 for an hour of sexual services.
"More and more girls coming just means one thing – lower prices.
"I work hard at my job and I've got regular clients who will pay me £80-an-hour but that won't go for everyone.
"Blokes already shop around – going from one girl to another to see who's the cheapest."
uuugh...Grytviken my man you might really have reading comprehension. The EU is and is being accused of being plenty of bad things. One thing its definately not, is undemocratic. Anyone who claims otherwise is quite simply wrong and should really look up his facts a bit more.
Ahahahahahaha,
If I leave politics I cant be held accountable for what may or may not occur
Which was quite simply put wrong. Almost all pro-leave arguments were nothing short of utterly retarded and straight up lying. Like being displeased about following EU regulations on certain goods. I dont see how leaving is gonna help. If you wanna trade with EU you gonna have to follow them anyway.
I have to honestly admit, Brexit was even dumber than Trump and im slowly thinking about communism. Its becoming more imminent that a democratic society with lacking proper education will eventually shoot itself in the foot for no apparent reason. There wasnt a single real reason to even discuss Brexit, let alone pass it.
FFS, he's from a great country where you can directly vote your local sheriff or judge(what can possibly go wrong?) into office. If he shares his wisdom about democracy you punks gotta shut up and listen.
It's not as if the public gets to vote 'democratically' on who is the Prime Minister here either, that is also indirect where you vote for the party or local candidate then the party puts their leader in charge if they win. So to claim that the system of 'indirect' election in the EU was a dealbreaker for the UK makes no sense.
Of course in the end, media propaganda is always going to have a big impact that can nullify reason.
Brexit has been pretty farcical overall. Almost to US standards.
And I agree, Overdriven, I also liked David Cameron. It's a shame to see him go.
Once again you're comparing a super-nationally appointed commission to a democratically elected parliament.
it is a representative problem that our democratic process doesnt include the EU.
It's amazing how dumb people like Heskey are. What exactly was it that convinced you that the sudden surge in google searches for "What is EU" post-referendum and the like came from Leave voters retroactively deciding to get informed about an issue they just voted on? Appart from your completely unwarranted sense of intellectual superiority? Easily manipulated cunt. Yeah I'm sure the sextegenerian grannies immediately got on their high tech cells, couldn't possibly be the gigantic proportion of young voters who abstained, who got woken up out of their political apathy by social networks and media going apeshit over an issue they were barely even aware existed. But this simple explanation is apparently beyond these fucking geniuses, Occam's Razor gets thrown out in favour of circlejerking about the inferiority of their political enemies, with yet another poorly cobbled together and easily swallowed myth. Literal fucking retards.
Which was quite simply put wrong. Almost all pro-leave arguments were nothing short of utterly retarded and straight up lying. Like being displeased about following EU regulations on certain goods. I dont see how leaving is gonna help. If you wanna trade with EU you gonna have to follow them anyway.
People who voted leave are in a hard place themselves and believe their vote is going to fuck over those who are doing good in life. There was an article a week ago about fifty something unemployed, former worker in industry that died in UK, who voted leave because he wants to fuck over establishment who treat him like rug.
I wonder how hard it is to get a country that is dependent on EU welfare subsidies to vote in Germany's favor when it comes to only needing a 51% majority to pass new regulations. It must be nice to have never ending supply of low paid slavs and refugees slaving away in factories for minimum wage to pay into their nation's tax system though.
Vote in Germany's favor what? You cant vote anything in anyones favour. Especially a single country's. Just not possible. I dont think you have any idea how any of this works. Im beginning to wounder if we Yuros are as wrong about the US as you are about Europe. Sucking ass to the Germans doesnt get you anything.
Brexit has been pretty farcical overall. Almost to US standards.
And I agree, Overdriven, I also liked David Cameron. It's a shame to see him go.
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The DGs also manage funding initiatives at EU level...
That's alot of Federal power given to appointed officials.
How about second Battle of the Somme so these patriots fight for their mighty tribe to reign supreme over the other? Sounds like a decent way to get rid of their kind and afterwards ban their shitty opinion for another 50 years.
We have a transparent system
Popular vote George W. Bush 50,456,002 Al Gore 50,999,897
Right.
When the vote doesn't go your way ignore it! Sounds like a good way to inspire confidence in democracy, that will teach all those people who think their votes don't matter!
Quite so, but all the choices left for UK are full of costs. Apparently costs so bad that Merkel and her closest policy wonks have already put UK on life support, prioritizing the softest possible treatment of UK over stability of the European Union itself.
It looks like you've voted to drive the bus off a cliff. All your leaders have resigned or are embattled. Not-quite-true figures were wide-spread. Leaving the single market looks like it would simply wreck your economy. Not leaving the single market would mean accepting free movement, yet curtailing immigration was a main theme and a promise, even from Cameron. You were promised to have a big boost to the NHS if you leave, and no hard choices. But that's all that's really left for you.
In fact it looks so bad for you that I'm kind of siding with Merkel, already out of self-interest. I don't want that much instability near me.
I wonder when you'll be willing to admit Farage convinced you to buy his magic beans and you'll get nothing from it. Even the people who campaigned so hard for this, promised so much, have fled the ship. Boris Johnson wouldn't trigger article 50 even if you promised him a bag of donuts for it, his entire political agenda was to appear the wounded hero, the people's champion when the referendum failed. When the result was announced he looked like a fucking ghost lol. Farage? He wanted his name in history, then to quit politics. He doesn't CARE what happens now, he never had a plan beyond having his smug day in EU Parliament.
What else are you clinging onto? Even the politicians who made this referendum happen have quit or lost all credibility through backpedalling, and yet you're still determined that this was a smart and rational campaign.
At the end of the day, not even your 'leave' party has the balls to trigger Article 50. Because for all the talk of 'putting Britain first', it will be career suicide for whoever does it, and they will be a personal scapegoat for anything that happens after.
And for someone so outraged about a government not keeping it's promises, you had no issue with Farage's campaign being caught in a huge lie within hours of the result being announced. Great double-standard. At the end of the day, if you vote for magic beans you get magic beans.
QuoteLeave or stay in the EU?
I dont have a strong feeling one way or the other, i'm sure there are genuine good reasons for each case
Yeah might as well close the thread because you must not have read a single thing I've posted in this thread if you think I'm a farage supporter but your superior morale ground and ideals means that you can ignore why I voted leave and lump me in with farage :rolleyes:
Ps. If 'democracy' is merely pandering to the uninformed majority
Can't read and reply to all of that on my smart phone. I was surprised there is a shadow chancellor, he must be the only shadow Minister left :lol:
Labour needs to get it's shit together before the negotiations begin.
George Osbourne vows to cut corporate tax from 20% to 15% in order to soften Brexit blow.
Businesses cheer, but Shadow chancellor John McDonnell warns this will hit low and middle income taxpayers and render the coming EU negotiations even more difficult.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/685927/EU-referendum-George-Osborne-cut-corporation-tax-boost-business-Brexit (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/685927/EU-referendum-George-Osborne-cut-corporation-tax-boost-business-Brexit)
GOOD
The move was also criticized by Pascal Lemy, former director general of the World Trade Organization; sends the message that UK is becoming a tax haven.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/george-osborne-corporation-tax-cut-wrong-negotiations-wto-lemy-a7118571.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/a7118571.html)
WHO CARES, HONESTLY. GOOD FOR BRITAIN. BRINGS LOTS OF FOREIGN MONEY.
The share of businesses that reported feeling pessimistic about the UK economy doubled in the week after the Brexit vote.
The figure jumped from 25% the week before the referendum to 49%, according to YouGov and the Centre for Economics and Business Research.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36708774
STATISTICS...WOO! SCARE CAMPAIGN.
“That country now has collapsed -- politically, economically, monetarily and constitutionally,” The Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said, speaking of the June 23 referendum to the European Parliament.
“You will have years of work ahead of you to get out of this mess,” he added to the British members present.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-05/cameron-ally-says-collapsed-u-k-faces-years-of-brexit-mess
EXCEPT UK HASN'T COLLAPSED. THAT'S WHAT THE EU WANTS TO PROJECT CAUSE EU LOSES MORE BY LOOSING UK.
The Bank of England has warned there is evidence that risks it identified with Brexit are beginning to emerge.
Responding to Brexit, it has lowered the capital safety buffers of banks, potentially freeing up to £150bn for lending.
"This is a major change," said Bank of England governor Mark Carney.
The FPC also has concerns over "the high level of UK household indebtedness [and] the vulnerability to higher unemployment and borrowing costs" for some households.
House prices could also come under pressure, particularly if buy-to-let investors abandon the market, it said.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36712040
PROJECTIONS. OFTEN WRONG IN HOUSING MARKETS. HIGH DEBT IS NOTHING NEW TO WESTERN WORLD.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36708774
STATISTICS...WOO! SCARE CAMPAIGN.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-05/cameron-ally-says-collapsed-u-k-faces-years-of-brexit-mess
EXCEPT UK HASN'T COLLAPSED.
... EU LOSES MORE BY LOOSING UK.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/george-osborne-corporation-tax-cut-wrong-negotiations-wto-lemy-a7118571.html
WHO CARES, HONESTLY. GOOD FOR BRITAIN. BRINGS LOTS OF FOREIGN MONEY.
The British national broadcasting company is running a statistics based scare campaign about the future of British economy, now that the vote is over? And there's only current and new investors to convince to stay or go somewhere else?
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If you find news telling of positive effects of Brexit, do post them.
No, though it's standing a little shaky at the moment.
And he has a point about a political collapse. Economic collapse and the rest, we'll see.
Are you quite sure of that power dynamic? See:
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Figures have been floated by the Leave camp like that German car exports to UK is 20%. But Germany would have perfectly good trade deals to the rest of the world, those cars would find another buyer.
While the UK would have to call upon their handful of experienced trade negotiators to BEGIN negotiations on hundreds of trade deals with very unwilling partners, since most of them would want to first see what kind of deal the UK gets from EU, since that defines the rest of UK's trade relations.
All the keys to the UK's economic kingdom would be in EU's hands.
And Farage is busy in the EU Parliament burning the bridges the rest of the UK will have to rebuild. That is if they want access to the single market which is vital for UK financial services industry which makes up some 11% of UK total tax receipts.
More likely Angela Merkel and other stabilizing actors will have to work at preventing others from exacting petty revenge or repaying old slights or just making sure a Leaver won't be too successful.
Perhaps. Or it's more of a panic measure meant to stem the flow from every door and window and away from UK.
And whether it's good for Britain to have even more difficult EU negotiations, refer to above.
Well the only way to truly understand what changes have to take place in order for the UK to fully self govern itself is to understand how the EU operates. Reading the Treaty of Lisbon would be a good start, this will obviously be a long transitional process, not something that happens overnight.
Everything you say is pure speculation. You don't need to be in the single market to trade with the EU. The UK had a deficit investing and trading with the EU in the single market. Please just admit you have no clue how the EU single market operates.
Don't forget the cost benefit analysis of changing EU laws and procedures already in place.
CBA = Benefit(from changing existing law) - Cost(of changing existing law)
If the above is positive, it's worth it to go ahead and change the law. If negative, it's not worth it.
And often a third variable will need to be added, namely if changing the existing law would deny access to the single market:
CBA = Benefit(from changing existing law) - Cost1(of changing existing law) - Cost2(of lost trade due to change)
For some reference, Norway has adopted roughly 75% of EU law to access the single market. So the cost benefit analysis of changing many existing EU based laws might fall to the negative quite quickly.
The exact nature of the future UK trading relationship with the EU is pure speculation. The nature of the single market is not. Neither are the barriers to trade and financial availability from outside. After all only 28 + 4 (or soon 27 + 5 or maybe 27 + 4) nations in the world have access to the single market.
And access to the single market means having free trade IN the single market. Not being able to trade WITH the single market.
And you'd have to NEGOTIATE A TRADE DEAL BEFORE that if you want to do better than default WTO rules.
What's so special about the deficit? Do you think think it's a huge part of EU GDP?
A couple of nations stand to lose quite a bit, but many EU nations not much at all. And they all decide together.
"EU exports to the UK would represent about 3 percent of EU GDP. Only for Ireland and Cyprus does the UK represent more than 10 percent of total exports." (http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/after-brexit-how-important-would-uk-trade-be-eu)
Also:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36270203
And financial sector:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-financialservices-idUKKCN0ZH5TE
And generally single market:
https://next.ft.com/content/1688d0e4-15ef-11e6-b197-a4af20d5575e
You don't need to be in the single market to trade with the EU.
It may well be that the Remain group are correct in their trade, business, economic and security arguments. However, I would rather be a poor freeman of England than a rich serf of Brussels.
Without access to the single market London as a world's financial centre is probably finished.
Why would a nation (...) not be able to manage it's own trade and government administration?
Isn't a weak pound a chance for the British export economy - if there is any - to grow significantly?
Rhekimos, if I may ask, your interest in this stuff is professional?
Chinese and USA companies use London as port to EU single market.
I honestly don't know what they are exporting, other than their culture and entertainment? Their car industry is owned by Germans. Fish and chips? That sure will make them billions.
It is hilarious how Americans project their situation at home on England and believe UK can do the same. Reality check. USA is warmongering beast that is terrorizing this Earth for decades. UK isn't colonial power anymore. They can't force anything on anyone anymore.
Rhekimos, if I may ask, your interest in this stuff is professional?
And because many individual EU countries will not deal with the UK until we trigger article 50,
and we don't want to trigger article 50 until we have agreements lined up
L2 EDIT NOOB!
Other witty EU stuff here?!
He's such a professional, he thinks that passing laws gives you cash back on MP salaries :lol:
Is Grytviken baiting? I cant tell anymore....
Although I don't recall making such a claim, isn't that kind of true? Without laws and lawmakers we wouldn't have much in terms of economies or economic growth to pay any kind of salaries at all.
If someone only proposes things with no benefit at all, be it economical or enviromental or security or anything it's not improper to float the guestion; what are we paying you for? *cough* €100,000 a year plus expenses to MEP Farage *cough* (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-resigns-brexit-ukip-leader-mep-calls-to-step-down-tom-brake-liberal-democrats-a7119411.html)
The Norwegians saved money by not buying into the bureaucratic system and paying a bogus amount of salaries to teams of analysts and politicians. You're not just paying for Nigel, you're paying his salary and all of his assistants salaries. Sometimes 500 laws are voted on in the matter of 80 minutes. MP's don't get to see the laws before they are put to vote, their team of legal analysts tell them what to vote on beforehand, there simply isn't any time to read all of the laws and regulations before voting on them.
Surprise, if there's work to be done you need people to do it. And a lot of work needs a lot of people. Also dear Nigel's stats: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-meps-attend-the-fewest-european-parliament-votes-of-any-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html
Also Norway contributes to the EU budget without lawmaking influence to laws that they dynamically take up as being a part of the single market.
Norway contributes 6 million a year for full access to the single market while the UK contributes 350 million a week
Ahahahaha.
http://www.eu-norway.org/eu/Financial-contribution/
Sure, you can find the 6 million figure there. Among others.
Isn't a weak pound a chance for the British export economy - if there is any - to grow significantly?
Yeah. I looked that up too. Cars.....cars.....Im pretty sure nobody else in Europe exports or makes cars. Oh how we will ever survive. :lol:
Making super cars is kewl but can't keep economy afloat.
Bullshit does have economical value.
The EU is literally worse than Communism. At least the Soviets didn't pretend it was a democracy :lol:.
Porn sites will require age verification checks in the UK by 2017
There's only a few things I really care about in life. My body. My pad. My ride. My family. My church. My boys. My girls. My porn. DON'T TOUCH MY PORN!
Pfff,
I smell Cameron and his scare campaign. Don't these 'experts' know their opinions aren't welcome here?
The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum”.
Government responded:
The European Union Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015, receiving overwhelming support from Parliament. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.
The EU Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015. The Act was scrutinised and debated in Parliament during its passage and agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The Act set out the terms under which the referendum would take place, including provisions for setting the date, franchise and the question that would appear on the ballot paper. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.
As the Prime Minister made clear in his statement to the House of Commons on 27 June, the referendum was one of the biggest democratic exercises in British history with over 33 million people having their say. The Prime Minister and Government have been clear that this was a once in a generation vote and, as the Prime Minister has said, the decision must be respected. We must now prepare for the process to exit the EU and the Government is committed to ensuring the best possible outcome for the British people in the negotiations.
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
This petition has over 100,000 signatures. The Petitions Committee will consider it for a debate. They can also gather further evidence and press the government for action.
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Another view.(click to show/hide)
But the Union’s greatest failing is that after decades of regulations of every possible kind it has not brought the nations of the Continent closer together. (...)
We are separate nations but not sovereign nations. We obey the dictates of Brussels and read Jonathan Franzen and “Harry Potter.” We watch American films and follow the American elections far more closely than those of any other country in the European Union. Is this a community?
It's however true the EU is extremely unsexy, with it's distant, boring and slow bureaucrats, having nearly no real power at all. They are basically negotiators. It's very easy for for politicians to blame whatever on the EU. Still, it does make sense that Europe should have equal standards, that Europeans can move to where there is work. And before an equilibrium arises, there will be movement of people.
It's lack of centralised Eurozone fiscal policy that allowed stuff like the Greece situation to develop in the first place.
British politics are strange to me.
Imo, the single biggest problem you have in Britain is the class system, most off all caused and expressed by the school system. (But also deeply programmed in the population) The Tories ARE the class system distilled!
And the goddamn newspapers you have there. Should be some kind of anti-trust or independence laws invoked so Murdoch can't have as much control as he has.
But then again, the left has lost its way, all over the world. It needs new ideas, perhaps focusing on systemic meritocratic aspects, by inhibiting inheritance and nepotism, allowing a fair playground for everyone.
Good luck Britain :)
Those aren't new ideas. They've been floated before. If I work hard and accumulate wealth and you want to confiscate the vast majority of it to redistribute it evenly across society (the fair playground theory). I would just move the capital offshore (and the jobs) if possible. Capital is mobile. Confiscatory tax regimes, while feeling warm and fuzzy, are counter productive.
You recently signed the petition “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum”:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
The Petitions Committee has decided to schedule a House of Commons debate on this petition. The debate will take place on 5 September at 4.30pm in Westminster Hall, the second debating chamber of the House of Commons. The debate will be opened by Ian Blackford MP.
The Committee has decided that the huge number of people signing this petition means that it should be debated by MPs. The Petitions Committee would like to make clear that, in scheduling this debate, they are not supporting the call for a second referendum. The debate will allow MPs to put forward a range of views on behalf of their constituents. At the end of the debate, a Government Minister will respond to the points raised.
A debate in Westminster Hall does not have the power to change the law, and won’t end with the House of Commons deciding whether or not to have a second referendum. Moreover, the petition – which was opened on 25 May, well before the referendum – calls for the referendum rules to be changed. It is now too late for the rules to be changed retrospectively. It will be up to the Government to decide whether it wants to start the process of agreeing a new law for a second referendum.
The Petitions Committee is a cross-party group of MPs. It is independent from Government. You can find out more about the Committee on its website: http://www.parliament.uk/petitions-committee/role
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
What's in it for Scotland to leave the UK? Do they really have an expectation of being accepted as an EU member state?Kilts, and their right to wear them whenever they want.
I would just move the capital offshore (and the jobs) if possible.
Besides, most EU members won't vote them in now, since if they do, it will give the green light to their own separatist moments to leave as well.
Scotland isn't some region of England. I don't see separatism in there. Catalonia and Basque are regions of one country which seek independence. Big difference between these two. Catalonia and Basque case is similar like situation of Kosovo which so many western countries gladly recognized as independent, although countries like Spain did not. Although I don't recall them saying a word how they'll put brakes on possible membership of Kosovo in EU. In the end, all that matters is what Germany, France and USA have to say about that. No one gives a fuck what countries like Spain, Italy or Greece think about any matter regarding Union.
Scotland is a region of the United Kingdoms in a way, so even though they might leave "legally" it is still a kind of separatism.
The major differences between regions and countries are the size of the land concerned ...
Scotland is a region of the United Kingdoms in a way ...
Has for a long time, and now more than ever.
But I don't see what input the US will have into whether or not an Independent Scotland is allowed in the EU, or that they'd get more of a say than Spain, Italy or Greece.
Exactly. The US cares (or should care) more that "allies" like Germany, France, and England sell technology to China that can be used for military purposes despite the trade ban emplaced in response to the Tiananmen Square massacre than it does whether Scotland joins the EU or not.
Yeah, they should do it like the US in the Middle-East and just give that shit out for free. Selling military tech is undemocratic, yo.
Size does enter into it, if Scotland was way smaller it would be seen as less legitimate to become independant, because it doesnt rule that much to begin with. If it was twice bigger than England, there would be much more reason to become independant from GB because, hey they are puny we can rule ourselves easily.
Even geographical positioning is taken into the equation: islands are often way more prone to become independant, simply because they are not physically attached to a mainland and have mechanically more chance to have produced a different culture.
As to belittling Scotland in saying region, thats not really the point I wanted to make (I'm not interested in belittling such or such), United Kingdom is a country formed by several countries, you can label each one of the countries, regions and/or countries of the UK and not be wrong. If you want to prove that Scotland should be independent you might be saying "country" more, if against "region" but thats againt not what I'm trying to talk about :D
Thats just posturing Rhekimos, people misinterpret things because of that, which is what I showed with my examples (and yours too).
(click to show/hide)
So UK got their own Trump. And they laugh at americans...
Boris Johnson is fucking epic for all the wrong reasons. He tackles kids with full force in sports. He called all ISIS "literally wankers" after finding out about the immense amount of porn they watch. He is a completely bizarre choice for Foreign Minister and I am ready for the lols.
Boris Quotes
"My policy on cake is pro having it and pro eating it."
"My speaking style was criticised by no less an authority than Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was a low moment, my friends, to have my rhetorical skills denounced by a monosyllabic Austrian cyborg."
"Voting Tory will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3."
"I think I was once given cocaine but I sneezed so it didn't go up my nose. In fact, it may have been icing sugar."
On Tony Blair "It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Blair is like trying to pin jelly to a wall."
Mr Johnson, clearly unhappy at being ejected from the meeting early, labelled the assembly as “great supine protoplasmic invertebrate jellies”.
I loved Boris as mayor. He has the kind of wacky attitude that fit quite well with the job. But as foreign secretary? Pretty hilarious in its ridiculousness.
Funny how people's opinion evolve.
Basically all I heard before was that Boris fitted as MP but was ridiculous as mayor; then when he got to foreign secretary, basically your opinion Overdriven; then if he gets to PM I guess people are going to say that his wacky attitude was just right as foreign secretary, but not at all appropriate to be MP :mrgreen: the guy is so not PC that he is always considered as inappropriate at what hes doing at present, must be tough to keep it real in politics.
Steven Hawking 2016
Brexit ‘could be delayed until late 2019’ with Whitehall departments not yet ready to trigger Article 50