Bodkin Arrows
weight 3
weapon length 91
thrust damage 7,pierce
max ammo 16
-1 dmg and -2 ammo can live with it but deeply suck
Strong War Bow
weight 1.5
requirement 6
spd rtng 59
shoot speed 52 (was 62 before)
thrust damage 28 cut
accuracy 96
that ll make bow suck hardcore
It is an experiment, it might get reverted again, but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.
The idea is that archery should not get nerfed by decreasing damage or increasing randomness, but should take more skill to handle. Bows should no longer be lasersighted sniper rifles, but you will have to lead your targets and take the trajectory more into account.
If it will not get reverted, bows might get more accuracy or more damage to compensate, we'll wait and see how it turns out.
(Oh and this was my idea)
chadz I actually like this alot. Get rid of the randomness so more skill involved. Leading targets is what all good archcers should do. Dont need to add more damage, but more accuracy with slower shoot speed actually would be great and would make it more of a skill then a spamfest. Thanks.
Hope this solves the ranged spam that invaded cRPG again, I played the whole day yesterday and it was just like before the big patch. Great job chadz!
and now there like 2x more cav running around were the buffed ?
but not because of archers, more because of the crossbower and super throwers who can throw their weapon pretty accurate in midrange with high damage.
1. Arrow prices raised.Its because chadz has more 2h mates than archers. its political. If someone tells you evry day: hey chadz, yesterday an archer killed me thats not fair!
2. Arrow ammo reduced.
3. Arrow damage reduced.
4. Arrow speed reduced.
I really don't have a problem with being nerfed in the name of balance but I'm starting to feel like a battered housewife here. Maybe space out the nerfs, see how much one or two affects the delicate balance in play before changing every other statistic that affects us?
Actually, it's because I love playing archer, and I like it to be special.
Actually, it's because I love playing archer, and I like it to be special.I dont trust you, your just trolling and try to keep silience. With the exception you cheat your char to lvl21 to use khergit bow and hit someone in melee, because you cant aim ranged 2h gays anymore. Thats the fact.
...
There was a balance, there was a chance for every noob who wanted to be Legolas!
That's exactly what made 50% of server population be archers and brought spam back. Amazing how you can say it's balanced in the same sentence.
still dont know if it got fixed, but thing aint great ingame now, zig zag people are hell to hit
It is an experiment, it might get reverted again, but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.
The idea is that archery should not get nerfed by decreasing damage or increasing randomness, but should take more skill to handle. Bows should no longer be lasersighted sniper rifles, but you will have to lead your targets and take the trajectory more into account.
If it will not get reverted, bows might get more accuracy or more damage to compensate, we'll wait and see how it turns out.
(Oh and this was my idea)
When I headshot people from the other side of the map that was skill, not OP. :evil:
Now you know how thrower's feel.
Now you know how thrower's feel.
Now I know why archery always had the upper hand in c-rpg mod. When it comes to whining, no one can beat archers.
this kind of nerf should come with an ability to redo your build without having to retire and also a posibility to change my heirloom since the patch changed alot of mechanic
Playing a bit with strongbow now, it seems good.
Longbow otoh seems really just to pull me down. Kind of a bummer considering it's more expensive.
There is another problem, at least for my char, if I don't shoot 0.1s after the drawing animation has finished, the reticule gets very large. Which makes holding the bow for changing rythm against archers or waiting for a clear shot opportunity kind of tricky, especially since reload time is so long.
Actually, it's because I love playing archer, and I like it to be special.
Sad. What do you think about playing 2H? That can be very special with nerfed weapon.
Something like this...
S of Tears. Special edition.
weight 2.5
requirement 18
spd rtng 70
weapon length 88
swing damage 28, cut
thrust damage 20, cut
Can't use on horseback
Can't use with armor heavier than 9,5
And just for lulz - they need some ugly animation too. Or just make polearm animation for all 2h. They are special anyway.
Didn't really notice a difference in actual gameplay. Honestly, it's still the same shooting mechanic. Fire one arrow, see where it lands, adjust accordingly. You still don't typically kill people unless it's a head shot, and the decreased arrow amount hardly affects gameplay unless you're one of those archers that hide miles away shooting at dots not hitting anything repeatedly. Of course, I didn't notice a difference because I'm a khergit/strong bow user but damn does this thread imply there are (were) a ton of longbow users pre-fix. Which is very hard to believe, anytime I look at another archer their bow has some recurvey shape to them, implying the two bows I use and sometimes the war bow.
I hope people still think it's enough of a nerf to stop playing archers now though, there really were too many of them.
Yep, there's no real difference in game play...unless of course you did use a longbow with 250+ wpf pre-big patch and spammed arrows killing everyone in one hit...then professing that they really have skill at the game, when they really don't...shocking!!!
Methinks there's a jab at Kesh somewhere in here... :lol:
Methinks there's a jab at Kesh somewhere in here... :lol:
I don't...why would there be?
No worries, hes just jealous of my luxurious red mane of hair. We all know it, no need to deny it, oh yeah and maybe that I am always killing lorne and his little lorne horsey.
Playing on my archer the only beef I have with it all is that for some reason I seem to have hit this plateu on draw speed and reticule size. I'm currently trying to gain a speed benefit by dropping down to the short bow, but I'm not noticing any difference from my khergit. On the other hand, I'm facing off against this one archer on the other team (who is a great shot mind you, not denying that) who is drawing his strong bow faster than me. It's weird, maybe just a wpf difference, but I'm at 140 wpf so... /shrug.
Well there is a difference between 140 and 160 contrary to popular belief.
It is an experiment, it might get reverted again, but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.
The idea is that archery should not get nerfed by decreasing damage or increasing randomness, but should take more skill to handle. Bows should no longer be lasersighted sniper rifles, but you will have to lead your targets and take the trajectory more into account.
If it will not get reverted, bows might get more accuracy or more damage to compensate, we'll wait and see how it turns out.
(Oh and this was my idea)
keep nerfing ON!yeah keep Nerfing On!
It is an experiment, it might get reverted again, but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.
The idea is that archery should not get nerfed by decreasing damage or increasing randomness, but should take more skill to handle. Bows should no longer be lasersighted sniper rifles, but you will have to lead your targets and take the trajectory more into account.
If it will not get reverted, bows might get more accuracy or more damage to compensate, we'll wait and see how it turns out.
(Oh and this was my idea)
yeah keep Nerfing On!Think about skilled anything....
And for the IDIO*** talking about skilled archers: There is no skilled archer, there is allways someone who needs to be nerfed. And To spam? Because evrything has been nerfed, therefore you cant hit anything and it seems like spaming arrows. Play an archer like i did, long ranged shots over the whole map and hit somebody. You can do it? Then wait until next patch and next patch and.....
Archery seems okay, most people crying about it probably haven't logged their archer on at all.
Now if we're discussing skill based gameplay, all 2handers should have a 50% speed decrease across the board, that would separate the men from the spammers.
And make it possible to block all 2handers even half-asleep. Which is my major gripe with any "decrease 2h speed" suggestions... it makes blocking too easy.
Because as it is it takes no skill to play a 2 hander? 8-)
1 Question is it normal that i hit an Courser 3 times with my Long Bow in the Chest and he is still alive??Or is that the -1 Piecing damage now??
I Played my Archer and the Arrow speed seems a bit slower so it becomes that i Hit an Teammate instead of the Enemy if i shoot into an Meele Fight!
(But maybe i have only a bad day)^^
Cool logic bro, I don't follow though. 2handers = need to manual block. Faster 2handers = harder to manual block.
What skill does it take to continually swing left to right with a 2hander and kill 20 people and 4 teammates? :)
so does power draw still bring down the WPP?
Archers now need to wear even more lighter armor... otherwise the WPF we have left.. is nerfed down even more, making our reticule look the the beaver of a knocked up chick.
What? Did you see the thread we had just recently where we were all posting SS's of our reticules? Reticule size is MORE than fine.
... Arrows fly straight thru people...
Also, when on my shielder, when I see an arrow about to hit me, my shield get the usual stun animation, but sometimes no sound is played and no arrow is sticking out of my shield either. Might be just audiovisual bug, but still seems wierd.
Yeah, i did.. pretty pictures. Have you tried it yourself, experimenting between armor weights ?
Come back too me when you have some decent comment. Instead of something thats based of some pictures you seen.
I was one of the guys posting the pic and discussing it. My reticule is tight as hell wearing red tunic over mail (same weight as lamellar) red wisby guantlets, leather boots and a straw hat. Other people reticules were fine as well. If YOU feel that YOU have to wear heavier armor than that without your reticule suffering then YOU have a bad idea of balance. That's more than enough armor for an archer while still having a kickass better than native reticule.
My archer does fine, most of the other archers I respect and know do just fine. Perhaps your issue is a case of PEBKAC.
YOU are funny. And probably a very lonely person.
Im sorry i have a different oppinion then you have, but i am not going too discuss it with someone that flips out like a retard and gets offended easly.
lol, ok then. :rolleyes:
My retard flipping offended nature is quite the stuff of legend for sure.
*But reading between the lines basically you are saying your opinion is that Archers should have laser reticules while wearing heavy armor / almost plate... That being the case then yes, we're going to disagree forever.*
I think archers were fine.. right after the whole revamp
Cool logic bro, I don't follow though. 2handers = need to manual block. Faster 2handers = harder to manual block attacks from other 2handers, which are your main threat anyways.
It seems like you dont even know me at all. And still have an oppinion about me.Pot.
You do not know me, and you have never heared me out. Yet you make up some fantasy about how i preceive things.
And where in the post am i whining about archers? Im whining about the server, but as 2 people already adressed having the same issue... why would i need too come up with pictures and proof?Remember this? It just happened:
Archers now need to wear even more lighter armor... otherwise the WPF we have left.. is nerfed down even more, making our reticule look the the beaver of a knocked up chick.Yup.
Pot.
Kettle.
Black.
Yes indeedy. :wink:
Twice in the same post even.
Rawk!
Apparently you're lost on how the conversational flow has gone. I'll give you a minute to read back a few posts and get caught up again.
It seems like you dont even know me at all. And still have an oppinion about me.
In wich post, did i actually stated something like" Archers need laser point reticules in heav armor? And no, there's nothing between the lines. Take it as you read it. Have i not written that in my oppinion archers are like they should be atm ?
If you would know me better, you would also now.. i never go around in armor compostion heavier then 6 weight.
You do not know me, and you have never heard me out. Yet you make up some fantasy about how i preceive things.
Dude, get yourself checked, its not healthy.
And as for your " i never go around in armor compostion heavier then 6 weight", I see you regulary in tunic over mail, which I believe is 9.5 weight. Unless there is some wierd calculator for total weight of you armor, I think that's more than 6.
EDIT: Are negative troll points for being troll? Or is it the other way around?It's neither, negative troll points are for people clicking the negative button next to your name.
And where in the post am i whining about archers? Im whining about the server, but as 2 people already adressed having the same issue... why would i need too come up with pictures and proof?
Archers now need to wear even more lighter armor... otherwise the WPF we have left.. is nerfed down even more, making our reticule look the the beaver of a knocked up chick.
EDIT: Are negative troll points for being troll? Or is it the other way around?
It's neither, negative troll points are for people clicking the negative button next to your name
You dont know him any better, would be my guess, yet you obviously have no problem having opinion about him...
Anyway, I respect you as an archer, I know you're good, I saw you on many occasions toping score boards, and pretty much always be in the top 3-5 of the team. That's why I don't understand this whine about accuracy. I wear tunic over mail, leather gloves, some 0 weight boots and hat and my accuracy is absolutely fine with strong bow, I have almost the same accuracy with war bow, only the reticule will get bigger and bigger after nearly a second of steadiness, but my build is not complete (144 wpf), and with one more weapon master, I can imagine it will get a bit better. And even if not, well I'm not against war bow being for the most skilled people who can line up their shots within a second.
And as for your " i never go around in armor compostion heavier then 6 weight", I see you regulary in tunic over mail, which I believe is 9.5 weight. Unless there is some wierd calculator for total weight of you armor, I think that's more than 6.
EDIT: Are negative troll points for being troll? Or is it the other way around?
You caught me there, yep. ive been using mail over coats lately. Still tinkering and testing around, but today ive used myold studded coat again :-)
But yeah i dont know him either, i never said i did. I quess the only oppinions i have had about him, is how he is responding too my posts. Seems fair no ?
Right, I remember seeing you in that armor as well as a matter of fact ^^ Honestly I don't like studded coat, simply because I look like a doll in it. I'm happy with my tunic over mail. For strong bow, which is my favourite, it's no big deal, and the ability to survive 2-3 shots (unless there is someone like muffin with his 9 PD and war bow, who can one shot me still) is invaluable for me. I can imagine that for me, being effective with warbow would mean lose the extra armor, but that is a trade off I don't wanna take just yet.
And I don't really care about the whole thing between you and Gorath, just that in one post you call him retard, in other you tell him not to make opinions about you, that's all.
Hi, actually I am new and don't really have any experience about the game online... What I can propose (and you may excuse my bad English) is some historical facts about archery...
English LongBowers were used to shoot about 6 to 10 arrows in one minute with 140-180Lbs Bows. That's about one arrow every 6-10 secs, that's quite of slow,.. but try to pull 140Lbs of pressure with only one arm,... 6 times per minute, sometimes during hours.
But all this energy paid well such those arrow could even penetrate fullplate armors, only the scale mails were able to spread enough energy to avoid penetration (And we're not talking about distances)
Instead of that, and not talking about compound bows, we have now target bows from 15 to 60 Lbs and 40 to 80Lbs for hunting bows.
With those bows you can actully reach some good rate of fire, we're talking of 15 to 20 arrows per minute (not sustainable for long periods...), what gives us one arrow every 3 to 4 secs.
Of course, those arrow would never penetrate full plate armors,. and even Mail would offer good resistance.
Beside of that,... we have the Hungarian (or steppe) kind of bow. Laminated, composite and recurved. It alows to have an 100-120lbs bow with the dimentions of a short bow. Those bows were used in Cavalery Archer for there maneability and low-encumbrance.
Of course, and as their tension force shows, they were intermediate in effectiveness and shooting rate compared to the two other types.
My point in that to the game ?
Give Long and War bows high arrow speed and penetration and diminish considerably the rate of fire.
AND
Give Hunting and Short bows low arrow speed and low (or none) penetration but high fire rates.
And, if possible,.. only allow Horse Archery with Recuverd bows, with intermediate speeds and rate fire.
So, if you're Robin Hood and thing you can make and head shot 300yards away, don't even try with low powered bows,.. take your time with a long one.
If you want to spam crowds to lower the enemies health and help allies, take low powered ones,.. but dont' even try long range shoots or to one-shot anyone,....
That's my point.
(click to show/hide)
but from a balance point of view for the game it's a good idea
Powerdraw no longer nerfs wpf. That short holding time is because you are using a bow that matches the powerdraw you currently have. If you use a bow with 1 powerdraw requirement less then what you have you can hold the shot longer and reticules actually shrink by a third, there is less of an effect with 2 powerdraw above, even less improvemnt with 3, and very minor improvement with 4 powerdraw above. So if you are using a longbow you have only 1 really effective build 21 str/18 agi, with 8 converted points and then doing 7 powerdraw with 6 weaponmaster all in archery. Its essentially a penalty for using a bow with matching powerdraw. For strong bow recommend 6-7 powerdraw. The only person I know that still uses a longbow is Bandit_Dughan so you might want to talk to him about his experience, but as far as I saw over half his kills were with his melee weapon which is something you should be prepared for.
For testing purposes (with Longbow) I used my alt character - and spent all point to PD (so have 11 PD).
No difference at all. Or you shoot immediately when crosshair minimized or don't shoot at all (start aiming again).
P.s. unfortunately developers removed single play options and didn't sad how now working game mechanics.
Earlier we used single player to test some features - now we can't.
...I am feeling what you sad something wise (may be ironic or, even, sarcastic). Feeling but can't proof ^) - cos don't fully understand your idea.
Anyways:
You know archery is bad when the people that used to spam arrows with a longbow switch to throwing instead. Or maybe that says something about the person playing the archer in the first place...
I'll keep playing archer because i like it, that's challenge, i prefer that than melee fights.
But by now, perform a kill is pretty hard. When you hit an ennemy, and i insist on the "When", it just stuns him for... 1 or 2 seconds.
On the left text, the only kills i see made with a bow are on peasants, or very low armored guys.
I like this game for being realistic. I used to like this mod because it was bringing more realism.
But now, i'm forced to admit that archery in this mod is not like in reality at all. It seems that now, we have hundreds of Boromir-like in front of us. No,n those guys are even better than Boromir (yep, remember, Boromir, him, died after 3 arrows... You think that's unreal ? Well, look at Crpg...).
I don't really know who can make modifications on the mod, but could he inquire about history and realism ? i understand that he has to test some things in order to get a balanced game, but mount & blade is one of my favorite games because of his realism. His respect to the true, to history. Should balance be more important than realism ? well, my choice is clear, i vote for realism, that's the game's soul. Keep looking for balance, but beware about realism in the next patch, would be appreciated. Don't fall into excess.
EDIT : I also noticed that some of my shots were simply passing threw the ennemy, without any dammage or stun effect. maybe lag ? that was my first opinion...
That's interesting, because all 2 handers seem to think it's archers....Since you can't manual block arrows, I didn't include throwers or archers in my extremely deep analysis.
So if it's a case of 2 handers are the main threats to 2 handers, you wont mind if archers don't have the now slower flight speed of arrows?
there is nothing wrong with killing naked guy in two arrows, they are yust arrown not jarids or balista missiles anyway.Top tier bow (3rd upgrade) + top arrow + 11 PS = and it is ok? To kill naked man fron 2 shot?
Nerf Archers they are OP
Yeah! Nerf archers.
In siege games, I get killed mostly by archers. It doesn't matter how much you zig zag, do random shit to avoid them, there's always 1 archers who can hit me. 2 Arrows and I'm dead.
NERF!! :twisted: :twisted:
You guys are absolutely away from the Topic!This Thread is about the nerf happened by Patch 1.12!And you will nerf it now again??Than i quit M&B!
Great :D
+1
1. Arrow prices raised.
2. Arrow ammo reduced.
3. Arrow damage reduced.
4. Arrow speed reduced.
I really don't have a problem with being nerfed in the name of balance but I'm starting to feel like a battered housewife here. Maybe space out the nerfs, see how much one or two affects the delicate balance in play before changing every other statistic that affects us?
You guys are absolutely away from the Topic!This Thread is about the nerf happened by Patch 1.12!And you will nerf it now again??Than i quit M&B!
For the clue click here (http://dagobah.net/flash/successful_troll_2.swf)
Read it it may Help you recognizing 1 if you see 1!
You guys are absolutely away from the Topic!
Ok lets see wat the next Crybaby means!
You failed so badly :D
Archers unplayable now.
Damage low, accuracy low, can't spec into mele.
Had a score 4/4 after last patch - 3 of my kills was with sword (powerstrike 0), and i think all of them was peasants
Now archers: shit at range and very easy to kill up close.
Archers unplayable now.
Damage low, accuracy low, can't spec into mele.
Had a score 4/4 after last patch - 3 of my kills was with sword (powerstrike 0), and i think all of them was peasants
Now archers: shit at range and very easy to kill up close.
Just accept the fact that you are no longer carrying a semi-automatic-sniper-rifle, but a medieval bow. Pick your shots and you will be deadly once more.
it seems all archers wanna be robin hood, lame asses, archers should be in a group focusing on target not 1 archer taking out 6 2 handers in 10 seconds.
The problem now is that it takes 5 arrows to kill a guy in 2.6k G Studded Leather Coat, I know cause I wear one too. The porblem is it even takes more to kill someone in mail armors which are easily upkeeped. I would like to see a bit more damage to arrows yes.
hmm why do i get killed by 3 arrows then? and u forget the totaly lameness of a ranged strike stunning you, u stop walking u stop blocking u stop attacking, so its already great support, once again i say u arent meant to be a robin hood one/2shoting everything and being like whooop whoop whooop look i cant be touched but i can kill all from a distance without needing eny real reflexes or skills, if youve played enyshooter in the past , archery is an eazy ride after 2 days practice , and tbh its still op if ur pure archer
Thats just a lot of crap what you said...
EDIT
With PD5 + Strong Bow I need 2 arrows to kill naked guy, to make myself clearer
The problem now is that it takes 5 arrows to kill a guy in 2.6k G Studded Leather Coat, I know cause I wear one too. The porblem is it even takes more to kill someone in mail armors which are easily upkeeped. I would like to see a bit more damage to arrows yes.
PD 4 + Nomad Bow I need 2 arrows to kill a naked guy, to make myself clearerer
.. am I godly or what?
Thats just a lot of crap what you said...
Bullshit, I have lamellar armor + mail gloves, so 42 body armor and still die in 3 shots.
I actually had a single player game that was going rather well.
Anyways:
You know archery is bad when the people that used to spam arrows with a longbow switch to throwing instead. Or maybe that says something about the person playing the archer in the first place...
chadz I actually like this alot. Get rid of the randomness so more skill involved. Leading targets is what all good archcers should do. Dont need to add more damage, but more accuracy with slower shoot speed actually would be great and would make it more of a skill then a spamfest. Thanks.
The only ideea that i saw in this topic is to get dmg and speed and range back to archer but to eliminate the reticle.Its realistic and u cannot acuze someoane of being a sniper automatic rifle.
The only ideea that i saw in this topic is to get dmg and speed and range back to archer but to eliminate the reticle.Its realistic and u cannot acuze someoane of being a sniper automatic rifle.
I've been messing around with the dmg calculator and I think horse archers get the same penalty as mounted polearms. SO if thats true, then you were guys also right and I want my horse archer dmg to be equal as foot archers'.
Horse archery is the most cowardly annoying class out there, you really want it back? Maybe your forgot how awfull it was before the patch.
This how they are described in history(i like it efficient than coward).But the 2 h culture rules this kind of games.2h is an ineficient weapon,u need large spaces to wield it.Most medieval battles were done by spears,cav,1h shielders,and archers or xbow.
but you know its sooo much cooler to wield an twohandsword than another weapon
Your so called facts are not accurate.
Longbows had better rof, dealt less damage and have problems with penetration, even against good mail.
You also underestimate recurved bows.
Bensbane, correct me if im wrong, but did you just base some of your post on some douche-bags playing the 'science guy' on youtube? :lol:
*edit after reading etc*
If I bought a sword and then posted a youtube video of me chopping some wood with it, maybe cutting up my neighbour's cat, could I then get a buff for 2handers?
Or I can make one of me hiding from an archer (due to production costs there won't be an archer, it'll just be me) in the woods for about 2 hours, so then we can reduce archery accuracy to simulate everyone on the team being really sneaky.
Nope, you're absolutly right,.. but still, did those arrows pierced Mail coat ? They did, right ? That's enought for what I was trying to expose.
I am sorry you didn't understand it.
My English seams to be worth than I though :-X
Nope, but if you make one were we can see you slashing 20 Cats in one minute, with a 1m40 steel sword and running at the same type with a 19Kg bag to simulate your armor wheight without getting exhaust and zig zigging throw a guy with a bow trying to kill you, I think you will worth your buff ;)
Correct me wrong, but medieval mail and plates were better than current replicas.
Ancient warbows had problem with transferring power if i i remember right. Also i know you underestimate protective value of aketon.
What crossbows, with crane or not ?
You messed up things.
When the target is not aware is when HA generally likes to attack.
- In fact, you're wrong about current replicas being worst. Modern middle grade steel is far better than ancient high grade steel. In terms of homogenity, percentages, mass distribution, hardness, elasticity, etc... I'll try to find an article I read a few months ago about demistifying the Japanese's Katanas (and in which they make a test to both steals) and post it in the Historian subforum, if you want to.
- Ancient warbows were all but homogen in terms of power, elasticity, etc... you only know how powerful your bow is AFTER finishing it. So you had some were low quality bows, and some very high quality ones. From what I read about ancient bows, and specialy about english Long Bows were that they had from 140 to 180Lbs of draw tension. I have (and it's impossible to have due to wood decomposition) any information about they're elasticity and recovery speed. But you can figure out, with the reported 300 yards range that they should have have a satisfying recovery speed.
That associated with their high draw tension is enought to say that far most efficient than what we do now (but only because we pruprosedly do low powered bows,.. but that's another discussion). So I would just answer that they were good enought to do they're job.
- The Hacqueton was in fact very effective, but you seem to believe that every comoner had one under his battle-stealed rusty mail coat ?
- About the Crossbow, in fact, they were a lot, I am speaking about the more powerfull ones, not one construction type in particular. Say 200Lbs to speak about a middle powered one.
- I do ? Well, I love to learn, I would be pleased if you tell me were I did and what's the correct points.
Sorry for flooding this topic, were out of context, that was just to awnser ! I'll be in Historical Subforum.
As a HA spamming from a large distance doesn't work anymore. You score a lucky hit from time to time but its a waste of arrows overall. You really need to close in on your target to hit and be efficient.
When the target is aware of you:
ARCHERS: Going 1 on 1 against foot archer is 50-50 and you will most likey lose your horse before its over.
1H+SHIELD: Against shielders all I can do is circle and try to find a way in to horse bump then turn around and shoot while he is on the ground. Its very risky but it will work so long as my target remains passive and only hides behind a shield.
2-H/POLEARMS: seem to be the easiest but if they zig-zag you'll waste a lot of arrows on a single target. They shouldn't wonder all alone out in the open anyway but HA will also give up if the target wears a solid armor. It's not worth all the arrows for a single kill.
THROWERS: are the most dangerous imo. If you want to score hits you need to close in and they don't seem to have trouble hitting your horse close to mid range. If you fall of your horse near a thrower you are as good as dead. Its all good and no complains here. I've meet quite a few skilled throwers that even headshot me to death while riding my fast Courser.
When the target is not aware is when HA generally likes to attack. Hit and run tactics on single targets works best for us - hunting fellow Ninjas ie. :).
Horse archers are not OP. We have to invest a lot in HA and Riding while losing our horse is easy. Don't see a reason for this dmg penalty really, we should do same dmg as foot archers imo.
Wy you think only Horse Archers are Nerved? Foot Archers have the same Damage like HA!Without the + from an fast escape but instead of that higher PD and better Bow with more Damage its just Simple!I can't say for sure but it all points out to HAs having the same dmg penalty as polearms. I've had a discussion earlier where some people claim they get killed in 3 arrows wearing a 3k armor while it takes me at least 5 arrows. What I know for sure is that while riding a horse I need 2 arrows to kill naked dude and only 1 when im on foot which is another clue.
I can't say for sure but it all points out to HAs having the same dmg penalty as polearms. I've had a discussion earlier where some people claim they get killed in 3 arrows wearing a 3k armor while it takes me at least 5 arrows. What I know for sure is that while riding a horse I need 2 arrows to kill naked dude and only 1 when im on foot which is another clue.
@UrLukur
That depends on a shield doesn't it?
So you wana get same damage + riding a Horse thats not serious or Wat??Hmmm sounds nice no no Archer needs anymore to be an Foot archer we all get Horses yay!!lol
I have that in mind but wasn't it your Choice to be Horse Archers so you know his Pros and his Contras same by me with my Foot archer if i duel with an Foot soldier in 90% i loose that duel!
Not sure what you're trying to say. You obviously have more skill points to invest in melee if you wish so, so you have a better chance against melee than a HA. On the other hand I start every round on a horse. All about pros and cons. If you think my horse that easily gets killed is an advantage over you extra 8 SP in melee then I disagree. I'd say its about equal and so I see no reason to penalize HAs with reduced dmg. Just my point of view thats all.
Experiment failed. Number of archers is still the same and they are still very effective with minimum skill involved.Logic failed, the majority of players probably only have a single toon and most people haven't been able to retire since the patch. So you're going to keep on seeing those archers up until they all become throwers insteads :mrgreen: duh
Continue with nerfing please!
Experiment failed. Number of archers is still the same and they are still very effective with minimum skill involved.
Continue with nerfing please!
to be effective we need to be close of fight wich mean easily reachable, and once it happen you can still kill people in melee.
Fixed it for you. Duh.
pure archer cant defend them that much, you like your hybrid, cool for you but with 1 wpf and 0 PS
any skilled melee will kill you. Stop your BS bruce its getting old
Don't purposefully gimp your char and get some powerstrike.
Hello, you might notice this archer thread here....
maybe some1 can explain to him what mean Pure ?
anyway i'm not gimping my char with 0 PS i would actualy gimp him if i did put some PS
again if you like playing an hybrid that cool but you need to stop your BS
Despite all this whining the servers are still packed with archers like usual so maybe the nerf wasn't so bad after wall, was it?
Explain to me why should archers be so privileged that they don't need melee weapons like other ranged classes.
maybe some1 can explain to him what mean Pure ?
anyway i'm not gimping my char with 0 PS i would actualy gimp him if i did put some PS
again if you like playing an hybrid that cool but you need to stop your BS
Oh my god :D
I get flashbacks from the 'get a shield' argument that has been overused by archers since the dawn of time. Well get some powerstrike you damn tool. Unless you are building a horse-archer you will have spare points that you can put into powerstrike. And instead of getting 170 wpf in archery, what about just getting 166 and lots of points into 2h/pole? :rolleyes:
Despite all this whining the servers are still packed with archers like usual so maybe the nerf wasn't so bad after wall, was it?
...
At level 23, my archer is at PD5 and 125 wpf, which is enough to be decently accurate and get kills. I've even topped the scoreboard for multiple consecutive rounds on a couple occassions, mainly with arrow kills.
I'm also PS5 with 74 wpf in one-hand. With a mere warhammer and no shield, I was far from helpless in a fair fight. I could get kills before ever getting close to an enemy, soften people up before they can reach me, take out cav easier than I did with my polearm/shield/thrower.
FFS my very first round at level 1 with this character I went 2-0 just by standing on a rooftop and spamming with a hunting bow and bodkin arrows. Yes, it was lucky, but that's the point. No other class can stay completely away from the fight and get a positive score on pure fucking luck.
I also made tons and tons of money compared to my other character, because I only needed a couple expensive pieces of equipment.
Archery is so easy and offers way too much reward for how easy it is. So little effort and risk involved compared to every other class. It just doesn't make any sense to play any other type of character.
Ok, I will say one thing in the interest of fairness, at risk of sounding like I'm stroking my own ego. I've been playing snipers in FPS games since the Future vs Fantasy mod for Quake 1 back in 1996. You wouldn't think being forced to lead your aim is so horrible if you ever played on a 28.8 modem before the invention of client-side prediction. Archery in this game is nothing to me, so perhaps I'm not the best judge.
And being a "pure" archer is a challenge you intentionally impose on yourself. You can't complain about the outcome. You're choosing to invest massive amounts of points for a very very small increase in archery ability. You could take some of those points to make yourself capable in melee, and probably not even notice the hit to your archery. What are you doing with your extra skill points, anyway? Are you only spending one skill point on an actual skill per 3 levels, and boosting your stats with the other two? I maxed out power strike, weapon master, power draw, and athletics for my level, and still had points left over for stat boosts. I don't understand why you can't. I also don't understand why you can't leave off 5 wpf in archery for 50 wpf in melee.
Pure luck at a distance, any ranged can do so, it's not just archers.
And who goes pure archer these days?
Having WPF in melee seems rather pointless as an archer from my experience. I kill maybe 3-5 more people with an elegant poleaxe compared to the war cleaver but I believe that's much more due to the fact that the poleaxe is a bigger weapon (and a much better turtle shell opener). My 93 points in polearms I don't think helps all that much, makes me regret having only 136 points in archery because people keep stating there is a greener pasture at 150.
But I definitely do recommend getting powerstrike. There's more than enough points to go around if you planned right and when I can finally retire I think I will definitely try some variant of Gorath's build.
My reticule is nice and tight ...
remove the reticule and severely increase the damage
3:0.Better (than post those pictures) - find a sense of word "proof" (what this word mean).
Better (than post those pictures) - find a sense of word "proof" (what this word mean).
No prob. cap.
You are butt-hurt, and off-topic.
Open a topic in spam where we can discuss the meanings of words, lets start with this one.
This topic was made to cry about the recent archery nerf, these pictures prove that a level 17 archer can bring a k > d, so they are not as useless as your comment.
...you post http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1230.msg18677.html#msg18677
This topic was made to cry about the recent archery nerf...
Arrows fly like Javelins.
They fly like crossbow bolts from heavy/sniper crossbows, roughly. They're much, much faster then javelins - which have speed rating of 20 vs the speed rating of 51 for a eg. strongbow. Sure, a thrower is probably going to have a bit more PT then the archer has PD (both give a bonus to projectile speed), but it's still twice as fast.
I dont know man, when I throw Javelins with my 4 PT thrower it feels pretty similar to shooting with my Khergit bow now :D
The decreased shot speed is a pain in the ass, but what really bugs me out is the change in arrows.Less of them with less damage?Fine, but why make them more expensive?
Also, the reduced speed doesnt induce more skill(Really, if at all its just aim 10 metres higher and favors high lvl Archers with more wpf and a tighter reticule).
If you want to make Archers more skill based, remove the reticule and severely increase the damage, same for throwers(But here increase the ammo count :D)
A good player do know how easy it is to dodge an arrow, a good player do knows for a fact how easy it is to kill an archer once you get close and a good player realize archers are annoying when there's a lot of them, but that it doesn't make the class overpowered. I don't know myself if Archers need another nerf or a boost i've not played cRPG long enough but i know a lot of ppl complains about things being OP just after they got killed by it wich makes me think that's its everything but a fair and wise thinking, some players could use a bit more modesty and admit from time to time that an archer isn't OP but just good at it when he/she manage to grab a kill here and there. As an archer, as far as my experience goes, you have to earn every damn kill. I do a lot more of Kills when i play melee class and i find amazing that ppl complains about archery after they keep killing everyone of them in melee every two round. How comes Archers are never on top of the killing board.
All best player on servers (wich, just so we clear, im rly not part of) don't complains about archers being OPed anyway, even before patch. They just complains about Throwing or Horse charge. I've only seen lowbies and the raging-type player complain about it really. The good players become good cauze they played a lot and as so are prbly the most inclined to know what's balanced and what's not so maybe ppl should start listen to them rather than the mass who usually just want to Nerf everything they're not playing. OMG i got killed by an archer, this class is so OP!
Btw I didn't see in this thread whine from archers. Only some tidy and timid comments\remarks.
Just some attempts to indicate(?)\show some weak\wrong places in current situation. Nothing more.
Something funny. Just hit level 31. And it's offering me to, amongst other things, heirloom this:
Very Strong Bow
weight 1.25
requirement 5
spd rtng 63
shoot speed 52
thrust damage 25 cut
accuracy 96
to this:
Balanced Strong Bow
weight 1.25
difficulty 6
spd rtng 91
shoot speed 59
thrust damage 26,pierce
accuracy 96
I'm assuming its a display bug.
I don't know how other players love to play as archer now (writing on the forums, some of them, very brave, but where the they in games?).
Archers stop complaining. Come join horse archers to see what really means being nerfed. :)
Archers stop complaining. Come join horse archers to see what really means being nerfed. :)
eah or join the 1hander, big nerf and no cry!
Nerf on shield size, nerf on wp+shield prices because its double price for a set (btw somebody saw a steel shield on battlefield since patch?).
But nobody cry or whine, you know why?
Cos shielders are noobs or good players that adapt and shut up.
Just do like most others and pick up a riotshield like everyone else, deflects all projectiles even if the shield doesn't technically cover it! I switched from an archer to a 1h shield build when I retired from strong bow HA...the arrows hit people, but never the people I was even close to aiming at, usually hit a teammate or just randomly into the ground... 5seconds later, my bow is nocked with an arrow again, and it was back to being ineffective. The only targets that were even possible to be hitting accurately is when you have a nice doorway or choke point to headshot pick...archers are back to being useless. Just grab a thrown weapon and hop on the bandwagon of the only remaining useful ranged option.
The days when HA was a class where any noob could succeed and do well by purely grinding to level 35+ and buying a panzerhorse are long gone.lol, that has never been the case. For one thing, hitting stuff people while going full speed and avoiding other cav, archers and pikes is harder than anything else in the game (I have enough alts to know). Also, since this most recent patch, its a lot easier to grind as a HA because getting xp and gold no longer requires being near the action. 1h+shield was always the best way to grind up money before the patch. However since the patch, its far easier for anyone to get the huge horses and bump people. Just isn't affordable to always be doing it.
(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
Bows body isn't too width, and by using 2 eyes - here is a very little area (if exist at all) hided behind the bow body.(click to show/hide)
End even in this case you can by freezing all your body parts and a little moving by head and neck - to see what is there (behind the bow body)
in a "fraction of a second" without loosing aim.
Here we must to move our device (bow).
And as result - at shooting on middle-long and long distance - in blind zone can be hided an infantry platoon ^).
If it must show to us some kind of realism - IMO selected way - is not the best way.
At least for the bow.
chadz you should really use DX9, DX7 is so 2000. What are you doing with all the from our donations? :lol:
Yes. I think all others classes (melee/cav/throwers/xbowman) can be forced to play game in first person only too. Its totally playable and actually fun.
Yes. I think all others classes (melee/cav/throwers/xbowman) can be forced to play game in first person only too. Its totally playable and actually fun.
would be if stupid weapons and shields didn't cover most of the screen.Exactly as in real life... exactly.
P.s. btw most of heavy helmets also must have from 20% to 80% of "black zones" on monitor.
Peripheral vision is more or less the same as if you wearing a heavy helmet. You have a very narrow field of vision with first person.Ohh really?
And the looks / animations are really, really ugly, weapon and armour models look horrible in 1st person mode.
Yes. I think all others classes (melee/cav/throwers/xbowman) can be forced to play game in first person only too. Its totally playable and actually fun.
I'm sure if ranged will be forced to fire in 1st person (like IRL) their damage/accuracy will be buffed so stop whining and deal with it. It will be like a FPS, that's all.
The bow graphic has no relation to its aiming. I logged in once and for some reason my reticule was gone. I found that I could predict the path (approximately) by aiming to where the line of my polearm on my back intersected an imaginary line running through the center of my character, approximately 2 inches above my players head.
If the graphics for bow were designed like iron sights, great. However, bring back laser pinpoint WPF accuracy to 150 WPF with the best strongest bow at PD10 if you decide to implement it. Damage is fine. Having both no way to aim PLUS having a COF 5 inches wide would just be penalizing archers to be penalizing them.
I love how everyone trembles in fear of 1st person view. :lol:
Aslong as I can still fire my bow in third person on my HA I don't care if a reticule is there or not, fuck first person in Mount and Blade, most horrible first person ever, not to mention it will make alot of people happy that HA will be useless if only first person shooting is allowed, which I certainly can't allow to happen :lol:.+1
Plus the Vikingr team took out crosshairs, but people knew how to put the crosshair back in themselves, wonder if this will be the case or if the mighty chadz has completely covered that aspect.