cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Warcat on July 13, 2011, 07:10:04 pm

Title: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on July 13, 2011, 07:10:04 pm
In order to make cities playable for Strategus we expanded all of the cities in Calradia. Minor touchups and fixes may still be needed, but every city was worked on.
Current Town Situation:
Town 1 Sargoth: (Peasant_Woman) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3110)*
Town 2 Tihr: (Ozin) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3279)*
Town 3 Veluca:(Mustikki) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3302)*
Town 4 Suno: (Jacko) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3244)*
Town 5 Jelkala: (Warcat) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3181)*
Town 6 Praven: (Warcat) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3149)*
Town 7 Uxkhal: (Peasant_Woman) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3200)
Town 8 Reyvadin: (Jacko) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3505)
Town 9 Khudan: (Jacko) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3243)*
Town 10 Tulga: (Jacko) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3109)*
Town 11 Curaw: (Warcat)Done (http://mountandblade.nexusmods.com/mods/3820)
Town 12 Wercheg: (Aelfwine) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3363)*
Town 13 Rivacheg: (Mustikki) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3502)*
Town 14 Halmar: (Peasant_Woman) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3468)*
Town 15 Yalen: (Mustikki)Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3287)
Town 16 Dhirim: (Mustikki) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3469)*
Town 17 Ichamur: (Warcat) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3085)*
Town 18 Narra: (Jacko) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3282l)
Town 19 Shariz: (Ozin) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3293)
Town 20 Durquba (Aelfwine) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3424)*
Town 21 Ahmerrad (Mustikki) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3501)*
Town 22 Bariyye: (Warcat) Done (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3162)*

Proper Spawn Point Placing:[0-9 Attackers, equips spawns 1 meter behind point 0][10-63 Defenders][65 Defense Equipment]
*May need testing

Go to the bottom of this list to find a city you might want to work on. (http://eelio.pagesperso-orange.fr/)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: Warcat on July 17, 2011, 07:29:03 am
Any comments on this?
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: chadz on July 17, 2011, 08:31:49 am
I've been desperately trying to find someone to take care of the town maps for a year, but alas, no one is willing to take up the (admittedly painful) task of polishing them.
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: Bobthehero on July 17, 2011, 08:53:12 am
I think there are some OSP you could use.
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: Warcat on July 17, 2011, 12:10:35 pm
I've been desperately trying to find someone to take care of the town maps for a year, but alas, no one is willing to take up the (admittedly painful) task of polishing them.
Obviously I can't do them all by myself, but I'm more than willing to do some work on some of them. Would need to know how spawn points differ from normal and if there is any particular things you want in them, but I can send you a sample of how I would expand a current map in a few days or less. Even OSP maps aren't meant for something quite like strategus.

Edit: I notice Town 6 appears to already have some work on it. However before any fighting happens on it, someone needs to remove the extra spawn point inside the city. There are two entry point 0's and its only using the wrong one.
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: Gnjus on July 18, 2011, 05:22:57 pm
I've been desperately trying to find someone to take care of the town maps for a year, but alas, no one is willing to take up the (admittedly painful) task of polishing them.

I might have a man for the job. He is a cRPG player, a Bandit. His name is John Mocker. Currently he is doing a project of fixing the 110 village maps + 10 or so Native maps for battle servers so we finally get some balanced maps and proper battles, unlike the current "battles". I marked everything that needs to be fixed and he is doing the technical part of the job. Punisher knows the details (it should be finished by the time he returns from holidays, at least a big part of it).

The only problem is that i don't know if he (Mocker) has the time & will to get involved in editing towns. He mights ask for some kind of reward or benefits in exchange for such a big effort.  :wink:

Edit: he has the will to do it but unfortunately (as it stands now) he wont have the time. Bad luck, but if the situation changes i will let you know. Additional problem is that we never played those maps, its easy with villages, I know them inside-out but towns are enigma, from the pictures in map-explorer i cant see what parts are bugged, glitched, unreachable, etc, etc.
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: Jacko on July 18, 2011, 10:46:02 pm
Throw a bone to the scene editing part of the forum. Assign a dev that can make maps and make him in charge of the "remodelling department". He then "hires" sceners to edit em, and checks them over before adding them to the official game.

Y/Y?

...And give him a server which we can test maps on before submitting em to the official servers.
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: Warcat on July 19, 2011, 06:23:32 pm
Extended the walls and put a keep in the city so I can show what kind of extensions I'm suggesting. This particular city is Ichamur, you may recognize it if you ever had to take it in SP
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/mb135.jpg/)
To keep in style with the original cities I think the areas behind the walls should be based strongly on what the alley and center scenes for each city look like.
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: Nasturtium on July 20, 2011, 12:55:05 am
I am experienced mapper willing to tweak maps for pats on the head and praise, shoot me a pm on how I can help.
Title: Re: City Scenes need serious work
Post by: Warcat on July 21, 2011, 09:46:14 pm
It still has a bit of work to do (decor, roads, spawn points, invisible border walls) But this I've finished the building layout for town17, Ichamur. I did it based on a few guidelines that I think every strategus map should have. (Flying carpet not part of map, just for previews)
(click to show/hide)

The main things I tried to do when making it-
*Make it feel like a city
     Currently cities are the smallest battlefields in Strategus, and always have the biggest numbers. By expanding the map it opens up offensive and defensive tactics as opposed to the current meatgrinder battles. I also added some additional fake background buildings to add to the feeling that this is one of the major population centers in Calradia, taking it is a great achievement and will be a key asset to the growth of any major faction.

* Make it playable
     One of the big contributions cRPG makes to the game is the inclusion of catapults, ladders, siege shields, etc. This map will make it possible to use those while avoiding exploiting them (i.e. using ladders to go over the invisible walls and around the city wall as was so frequent in last Strategus. With this map catapults may be used to take down the walls, but there will still be hope for the defenders to fight through the streets. Defensive spawn points will be put at all the closed entrances to other parts of the city, as well as a point in the courtyard of the main keep. Also, everywhere within the battle areas are completely unrestricted. Anywhere outside (fake building area) will be blocked by invisible barriers from the ground up.

*Keep it's personality
     While I'm adding a lot to it, I still want this to be a representation of Ichamur. I made very few elevation changes to the natural map, kept a similar style to the walls in terms of approach and having areas of crossfire that have always been such a problem for attackers at that map. The keep and the alley leading directly up to it are modeled directly after center and alley scenes. Some cities may even want to include the city arena within the map.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Overdriven on July 22, 2011, 12:29:27 am
Looks fantastic...great work  :) One of my major complaints with Warband has been that the cities feel like minor outposts when you're attacking them. Expanding them a bit helps.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 22, 2011, 03:27:01 am
well yeh, it'd be cool if the fight for a city was more than just walls. Of course that whole conquest thing has been on everyones minds.
If i was any good at mapping I would try my hand at this.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Jacko on July 22, 2011, 10:54:09 pm
Really nice Warcat! This should definitely be made for all the cities! Time consuming work for sure, where is that Strategus Map Developer (SMD aka "the slave") when you need him?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 27, 2011, 05:26:49 am
(click to show/hide)

Here's what it looks like with invisible barriers now placed.

A few more things to note

- All the barriers around the edges start from the ground. Even if a catapult destroys the buildings on the edges, access to the rest of the city is still restricted.
- All of the spawn points are on the ground, don't want problems to occur from a building top catapult
- The defenders naturally have some roof access, including a large group of central buildings. This wasn't specifically planned, but I found it out as I was moving around the city with the scene viewer.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 27, 2011, 01:57:48 pm
i dont mean to be negative, but i've noticed that the more complex maps hurt fps even on powerful machines. How will these cities hold up with 120 players?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Spawny on July 27, 2011, 02:24:04 pm
More importantly, how are you going to defend a city like that?

It takes a few minutes, if not less to build a few catapults and take out the walls.
After that it becomes a streetbrawl with a longer route to the fight for the attackers. I could be wrong, but as I picture the battles, you don't need 2x or even 3x the attackers to be able to win anymore.
Imo, that's a bad thing. Cities should be damn hard to take and not require a few catapults an equal amount of tickets and some gear to outfit your soldiers with.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Wookimonsta on July 27, 2011, 03:05:12 pm
hmm, once i am done with all the driving theory, i should be able to get into mapping. I used to do bf vietnam mapping AGES ago, but warband can't be too difficult. Maybe i'll be able to do the occasional map.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: PhantomZero on July 27, 2011, 04:37:05 pm
If town maps were expanded, you would also need some sort of standard to make sure they are still fair.

In addition, with the spawn being so far back for attackers, there would need to be a way to not only take down enemy spawn flags, but capture them. Otherwise you would never make any progress into the town and fights would drag on for 6-7 hours at 20k vs 20k.

Not to offend, but most of the custom siege maps are terrible.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Jacko on July 27, 2011, 06:46:36 pm
I bugged the devs on IRC for some kind of guidelines for remaking of the city scenes, so far nothing. The only thing said was by cmp and he simply thought it was too big.

One big issue when remaking these scenes are to keep them easily defendable, yet increasing them in size. You have to keep in mind that the longer the wall the harder it will become to defend. The fights are only 60v60. We also talked about HOW one defends a big city. Adding Outer and inner walls? Built in choke points? Is the map made to be used in a fight or simply to be a city?

I'm remaking city scene 10, will post some picture when I have something to show for.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 27, 2011, 07:35:42 pm
As I talked about in previous posts, being made to be used in a fight was one of the main focuses I had when making this. The walls are on top of a slight slope with spikes along much of it, similar to the way the city was  already set up in it's smaller version. So access to the walls with ladders and towers is still somewhat limited and the defenders have very good access to it. If catapults do destroy the walls, there are numerous choke points that the  defenders can use to defend at. Also keep in mind that defenders have the ability to choose their spawn points by using their spawn flags. And defenders also have the ability to use catapults which have the ability to one hit hit other catapults, killing the crew around them.

As far as issues about size being to big causing lag, if you are referring to the number of items in the map, I checked and it is smaller than several of the current very playable MP maps that are used. The actual size of the map is exactly the same as what it was before.

I also did a few time tests to see how long it takes to get places in this map. All the times are approximate.
Back of defense area to the top of the closest wall (most defense spawns however are far closer to the walls): 24sec
Attacker spawn#0 to top of nearest wall: 24 sec
Entire width traveling on walls: 55 sec
Entire width traveling behind the walls: 40sec

Throughout the whole process I intended to keep it as a difficult objective to take, but ultimately either side should need better organization, teamwork, and skill to win a battle.

Ultimately the only way to know a map works well for sure it to do some real combat tests on it with organized factions, but I've been playing strat since before any cities were taken the first time, so I think I've made a map that should work well.

In case you're interested at looking at it in person (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3085)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 27, 2011, 08:58:16 pm
I'm remaking city scene 10, will post some picture when I have something to show for.
Tulga, that's a good one, it already has some of the city feel that I like, I look forward to seeing how it comes out.

I'm moving on to work on Town 6, Praven should be a fun one to work on, it's already practically a medieval Omaha beach. Can almost entirely forget about approaching these walls with siege towers.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: chadz on July 27, 2011, 09:02:52 pm
This map looks pretty impenetrable, actually :)

Just for the record: it is not at all necessary that all maps have the same difficulty. This one looks a lot harder, and that's perfectly fine. You have to get it first while it's harder, so it's just fair that you can defend it with the same advantage :)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: cmp on July 27, 2011, 09:46:35 pm
The one above (Ichamur) is way too big to be usable in Strategus battles. The vanilla one was tight for 60 defenders, two or three times as large would be ok, but yours is ridiculously oversized (impossible to defend).
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 27, 2011, 10:27:27 pm
The one above (Ichamur) is way too big to be usable in Strategus battles. The vanilla one was tight for 60 defenders, two or three times as large would be ok, but yours is ridiculously oversized (impossible to defend).
I'll cut out some of the side areas, make it only about 3 times bigger than original
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: gazda on July 27, 2011, 10:36:14 pm
hmm did you take a look at this
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,132920.0.html
it has all the native city sieges redone, they look good, maybe if you take that it will save you some time
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 28, 2011, 02:55:34 am
Updated it to a smaller version. Because it curved back to the attackers direction, the far left was one area where the attackers  likely would've had a time advantage over the defenders if they quickly shifted their attack in that direction
(click to show/hide)

Also another thing I want to note, some of the buildings look further away than they are, they're only 50-75% of their normal size.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Jacko on July 28, 2011, 09:48:36 pm
So, my take on Tulga (sorry for the shitty image quality, don't know why it doesn't wanna look like ingame):

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Basicly 2.5 layers of defence integrated with the city, and a "drill square" on the top. One gate to the drill square and one side door. I think there is a total of seven gates around the city. As it is now, the only way for attackers to gain entrance to the inner city is to use siege equipment (the one ladder left from the original map I kept in). Do you want me to throw in additional ladders for the attackers, or leave it as it is? As for spawn points, I have yet to place any, because I'm unsure how you guys want it.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 28, 2011, 10:10:12 pm
I think every city/castle in Strategus needs to have intact walls and no ready ladders or siege equipment for the attackers. After all, that is up to the army without a time limit to do.

It is also fair, because yes it will be easier to defend, but on the other hand, it will be so much harder for the attacking faction to take it in the first place.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 28, 2011, 10:11:39 pm
You're Tulga looks really good to me. I like how you seem to have built off of the city built around a hill approach that it had initially. It somewhat reminds me of a total war map. Not absolutely sure, but I think spawns work they same way in cities as they do in villages (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,11050.msg158369.html#msg158369). Main difference is cities use a lot more spawns.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Jacko on July 29, 2011, 10:41:34 am
Thanks Warcat! Lots of TW Siege map towns are on hills, and kind of built upwards like mine, with a "square" on top. Guess it's natural (and easy in TW's case to reorganize routing troops, which I'm hoping it will be for cRPG as well). I simply built around the terrain that was already there. Yeah I figure it's the same as Villages (probably some more defender spawn points?). I'll wait with ze siege equipment and spawn points, will finish it up later and upload it.

Word from the equus africanus asinus Lord is No pre-placed siege equipment.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 29, 2011, 10:01:31 pm
I initially went with 20 defender points, but I got word form chadz that there are never too many of those for the defender, so I went ahead and put them in up to point 63. Good to hear about the ladders though, because I wasn't sure about that one. Also I'd like to know the devs opinions about sally doors. I notice that Praven's walls already have a sally door placement above the cliff on the left side. I can remove it, make it sealed closed,  or make it a working door.

I updated the repository file (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3085) for town17 to remove the ladder and the AI mesh which is unnecessary for strategus purposes.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Peasant_Woman on July 29, 2011, 10:21:24 pm
I've started work on town_1 (Sargoth). It might be worth editing the OP to show which towns remain unfinished and haven't been started on yet so that we don't waste time and do the same one?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Jacko on July 29, 2011, 10:33:04 pm
I've started work on town_1 (Sargoth). It might be worth editing the OP to show which towns remain unfinished and haven't been started on yet so that we don't waste time and do the same one?

*points at Warcat*
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Peasant_Woman on July 29, 2011, 11:08:29 pm
ah nevermind then
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 30, 2011, 01:06:10 am
*points at Warcat*

The people have spoken their demands, it shall be so.

ah nevermind then
Giving up a bit quick on me. Can only check the forums so often.
On another note, since the discussion seems to have moved past the "We should do this" to the "We are doing this" stage, perhaps this should be moved to the strat or scene editing forum. Might catch more attention there of people interested in helping.

Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Peasant_Woman on July 30, 2011, 01:14:07 am
Giving up a bit quick on me. Can only check the forums so often.
On another note, since the discussion seems to have moved past the "We should do this" to the "We are doing this" stage, perhaps this should be moved to the strat or scene editing forum. Might catch more attention there of people interested in helping.

I'm not giving up,
If you want help, moving this to scene editing is a good plan, Jacko just gave me the impression that you planned to do all the town maps solo. Guess I jumped the gun a bit :P
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on July 30, 2011, 05:03:52 am
Took nearly a week to do the first one, next may take longer. Can't even imagine wanting to do every single one. Plus, the more people that make them the more variety there is which is good.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Jacko on July 30, 2011, 05:53:08 am
Yeah.. These things take time to edit. I merely pointed to Warcat as he, if someone, seem to be in charge of things..

Anyway, welcome to the team!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Peasant_Woman on July 31, 2011, 07:04:01 pm
Thanks guys, I thought I'd give an update on the new Sargoth;

Before;
(click to show/hide)

After;
(click to show/hide)

Closeup of town layout;
(click to show/hide)

Random pictures;
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

I only made very minor changes to the actual terrain and tried to keep the original playable area more or less the same, all that changed was one or two original buildings using thier destroyed models instead and no pre-set ramp on the walls. The rest is me trying to follow Warcats example and it's pretty much done except for minor polishing, and I'm not too sure if I should put barriers on all of the roofs or not.  :)

EDIT: Linkadink http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3110 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3110)
Doing Uxkhal (town_7) next
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 31, 2011, 07:09:12 pm
Great job! This is really cool that you guys are doing all this work.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Jacko on July 31, 2011, 10:27:01 pm
Finished up Tulga. Rode around unflooted some object. Damn fences will be the death of me.

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3109 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3109)

And ma next town will be Suno
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: ManOfWar on August 01, 2011, 04:14:46 am
Towns should be street brawls. if the walls are breached

they are not fortresses like castles
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: soc_em_roc_em on August 01, 2011, 04:43:15 am
These maps look great. Too bad I suck bad at mapping and hate working with script programs, otherwise, I would make some unbelievable shitty maps. All maps would be defenders spawning in one tower without doors at the top of a hill.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Warcat on August 01, 2011, 07:11:57 am
Sargoth looks quite nice.
Quote
and I'm not too sure if I should put barriers on all of the roofs or not.  :)

Don't put any barriers on roofs. Once it gets hit by a catapult buildings will be lowered so that the barriers are off anyway. Either side can bring ladders, and so anything will be able to be reached or lowered with all the siege equipment. I'll update the first post including links. I've busy with other things the past few days, but I'll probably be back to working on Praven soon.

Towns should be street brawls. if the walls are breached

they are not fortresses like castles

That really depends on the city, many medieval cities were like you said, others like Constantinople had a series of walls and hills so that the outer walls were a small part of the defense.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Bjarky on August 01, 2011, 07:43:06 am
@warcat, could you pls do Halmar too?
It's very similar to Ichamur, maybe some things could be copyed over to save time, if thats possible.
Btw. great work guys  :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: cmp on August 01, 2011, 11:47:04 am
Don't put any barriers on roofs. Once it gets hit by a catapult buildings will be lowered so that the barriers are off anyway.

That's not how we want catapults to work, so don't rely on it.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 01, 2011, 11:55:16 am
Heh. We'll add whatever you guys want us to add. Adding barriers is simple enough anyway.

Just tell us how you want it.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Wookimonsta on August 03, 2011, 04:04:09 pm
ichamur will be extremely difficult to defend with the massive length of the wall it seems to me. The number of defenders is just to small to cover it all it seems.
Sargoth seems easy to take, but i can't be sure with that one.
Tulga looks epic and quite defenisble.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 04, 2011, 09:57:25 pm
Rejoice! We have been moved!

Anyone up for it is free to pick a map and start editing, the more people editing the more variety we will get!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: KingKessler on August 05, 2011, 12:47:08 am
sargoth looks nice. i want to live there
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on August 05, 2011, 02:39:58 pm
Veryyyy nice stuff, now after you finish that you guys planning to do castles?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement
Post by: Jarlek on August 05, 2011, 02:56:27 pm
That's not how we want catapults to work, so don't rely on it.
Still. Isn't it best to have spawns on the ground? The only way they would be broken then would be if you introduced destructible terrain (as apart from destructible objects).
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: hotcobbler on August 05, 2011, 03:23:50 pm
Hey guys, major thanks for doing all this work pro bono for the community.

One thing you might want to do in the first post is make a list of all the cities that need work, kind of like the status list you have now, but for all the "unworked" cities, with their in-game names next to them. That way people who are interested can just dive in and the list can  be worked down gradually.

Anyway, keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Reinhardt on August 06, 2011, 07:00:01 am
I'd like to see Shariz next. I want to see what everyone will be fighting for in the next strat. :D


BTW: Fantastic work on this!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 06, 2011, 08:19:08 am
Veryyyy nice stuff, now after you finish that you guys planning to do castles?

I think they may need some adjustments, but like villages, native castles are far closer to being in a ready to play situation than cities.

Edit: Seems like castles are already ready to go from what I saw at Bardaq
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 09, 2011, 10:10:38 am
Still have more to do, but here's some pics from Praven, those yellow arrows mark the invisible map border. This city is not for claustrophobic people. I've hardly had to do anything at all with the walls, but I've done a lot to the inside. Choke points are all over in this place, so if you somehow fail to hold the wall, you still have plenty to defend.
(click to show/hide)

I don't expect this to be an easy one to take, it's practically a medieval Ohmaha beach.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 09, 2011, 03:11:57 pm
Looking good, actually looks like a city. Might wanna post a pic with borders up so you get an idea of how big it is. 
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 11, 2011, 04:03:54 pm
Before to long I'll finish with all the barriers and post those pictures along with an overhead view to be a map.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Tetris on August 11, 2011, 06:45:46 pm
My god, Imagine the battles for this town, Epic street fighting and house torching.

"Sire! We may take the town!"

"Take it? Why take it silly?, Burn it to the ground."
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 13, 2011, 09:22:02 am
That would be fun if we could raze buildings  :twisted:
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Olwen on August 15, 2011, 10:49:20 am
bump for this thread, gogogo do all the cities
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 15, 2011, 06:53:16 pm
Just have to do spawn points and barriers and then I'll be done with Praven, then I'll look through the list to see if there's one in particular that I want to do next. If you're reading this and you know anyone who enjoys scene editing, direct them to this page, otherwise it could be a while before they're all done with only 3 people working on them.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 15, 2011, 09:09:37 pm
Finished with Praven here's (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3149) the link to the download.
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Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 16, 2011, 10:28:32 pm
Going to start working on Bariyye
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This'll be the first map I work on where siege towers will have good, easy access to the walls, the city behind them however will be a massive up hill battle making it very hard to take the whole place, should be fun.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Civilian on August 17, 2011, 02:01:15 am
Going to start working on Bariyye
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This'll be the first map I work on where siege towers will have good, easy access to the walls, the city behind them however will be a massive up hill battle making it very hard to take the whole place, should be fun.

I remember people using ladders to climb all the way to the top of the keep. Will there be a way to get up there without the ladders?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 17, 2011, 07:15:41 am
There will be a route using the streets to get their, but the attackers would have to be fighting through people the whole way up.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Loki on August 17, 2011, 11:10:45 am
really nice work warcat, I'm impressed.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Zwolle on August 17, 2011, 03:53:05 pm
it looks nice warcat.Congratulations.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 17, 2011, 10:27:10 pm
So.. Yeah, Suno. I got a bit carried away. I heard chadz like city brawls..

Original
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Remade
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Overview:
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From the gate, to the square outside the keep. it took me about 45-50 sec running, and I killed one pesky Rhodok crossbower on the way. The main fight here is suppose to be in the streets, not on the walls. It's basically 3 segments the attackers have to overcome. There is a lot of alleys, side streets, "hidden" passages" and what not, so while the defenders can block off choke points with ease, attackers can still get through in a different spot. It gets progressively harder each segment for the attackers to "get through".

The walls:
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The streets:
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The keep square:
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Random:
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Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 17, 2011, 11:23:50 pm
I love it! Looks like it'll be a true city fight. Should be lots of fun to play in. Can the gate be opened?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 17, 2011, 11:28:51 pm
Yeah, only thing on the map that can be used, so far. I'm thinking about adding winches to the larger passages, or at least the "main one", to force the attackers to use another way, but it's a small thing to add.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on August 18, 2011, 12:07:02 am
Remeber make those cities unfair to attackers, I'ts what it should be, a city should be a massive slog to win it, so it should be unfair to attackers and the only way to win them is to give out orders and strategy, or get 5x the troops and money :3
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 18, 2011, 12:32:44 pm
Yeah, added gates to all the large passages.

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3153
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 19, 2011, 12:47:28 am
So, here's what I've got so far with Bariyye. Good news for the attackers, you can get in the city with siege towers! Bad news is that the place looks like this.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Leiknir on August 19, 2011, 01:51:44 am
Very good looking maps, but I have worries about their performance.
Especially Suno, it's a very good looking map, but all those details (thousands small items in shops, market etc) eat up the performance and add not much to the gameplay value (still nice to look at in screenshots, though). Also that lower city only for decoration, it just eats performance and will only rarely be seen after all, I suggest using the fake buildings to cut it off. Else I fear it will be unplayable in the end for most of the playerbase/chadz.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 19, 2011, 02:30:08 am
Very good looking maps, but I have worries about their performance.
Especially Suno, it's a very good looking map, but all those details (thousands small items in shops, market etc) eat up the performance and add not much to the gameplay value (still nice to look at in screenshots, though). Also that lower city only for decoration, it just eats performance and will only rarely be seen after all, I suggest using the fake buildings to cut it off. Else I fear it will be unplayable in the end for most of the playerbase/chadz.
From what I can tell, all of those buildings in lower Suno are the low res fake ones. You do make a good point about the small items, the first thing I do before making any changes to the map, is go to the list and delete most of the grass from the map. There's a seemingly endless amount of grass props that don't serve a big purpose in most places since the ground still doesn't look photo-realistic with it. As far as the outdoor shop and market areas, I try to deal with the massive list of items issue by aiming for a quick evacuation style of look to it. There are a few knocked over chairs or tables, one or two pieces of corn left behind, but most of the area has been evacuated to a safer part of town away from the initial invasion. The other good way of dealing with it is to just make the market areas inside and put up a sign by the door, that's what I'm doing for this city.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 19, 2011, 11:57:12 am
All the houses on the sides are fake and fake low-res (even worse), so that shouldn't be a problem. I am well aware of that big maps might bog down slower systems. as I said in a previous message, I went a bit overboard with Suno. But in all honesty, I think it looks like more stuff then it is, most of the streets are fairly desolate, only populated by the ever present carts. If it turns out to be a problem I'll just remove most of the stuff (I usually do what Warcat suggested).
Would be great if we could get someone with a low end system to take em out for a spin... And eventually try em out with real players instead of just me trying to get bots into the back streets.

"Final" 1.1 (besides gameplay and performance tweaks *cough*) version http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3153
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Moncho on August 19, 2011, 12:01:58 pm
About the towns, this might have been suggested before, but fast reading over the topic i didnt find it (if it is somewhere, sorry).
But I think a good way to avoid attackers from just razing the walls with catapults would be to add a cost to repair them afterwards. With the models that are in http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2869.msg192025/boardseen.html#new , as in each level you destroy it a cost of x to repair it afterwards (and maybe a period of time to do the rebuilding. This would make the attackers really have to plan and think about other ways to attack, making it harder for them.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 19, 2011, 07:41:24 pm
Not a bad idea, but I'm not sure if there's a way for them to save the scene at the end of the battle. However another way to stop attacking catapults, is to fire at them with catapults of your own. If you have trained catapult operators and a spotter on the walls, you can fire back at a high arc to avoid hitting your own walls, it only takes one hit to take out an enemy catapult and all the crew operating it. Also as I found not too long ago while trying out catapults with some other Fallens, stones from a good height can do decent damage to catapults and their crews. Consider having your infantry take 2 to 3 stacks of stones as an additional annoyance to the attackers that is very cheap.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 22, 2011, 04:44:02 am
Finished with Barriyye and updated the op, this should make for a fun battle, the first level should be relatively easy to get in and establish a foothold, can't exactly say the same about the other six levels.
Download (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3162)
(click to show/hide)

Won't be able to spend as much time working on these in the coming months, but I'll still spend some time working on them. I'll take a look soon at which city I want to do next.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Camaris on August 22, 2011, 03:02:02 pm
This one looks very nice ;) Would be cool if Warband allowed 300-500+ Players without lag ;)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Olwen on August 22, 2011, 04:18:35 pm
even if there wasn't lag problems there would be computer problems :x

nice looking maps
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 23, 2011, 04:54:24 am
Next one I do is going to be #5 Jelkala, it's a clone of #15 Yalen. The main distinguishing feature of this one is the stream that flows in front of the walls, otherwise it's a pretty normal Rhodok city.
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Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Civilian on August 23, 2011, 07:00:14 am
Next one I do is going to be #5 Jelkala, it's a clone of #15 Yalen. The main distinguishing feature of this one is the stream that flows in front of the walls, otherwise it's a pretty normal Rhodok city.
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I demand a memorial for those who bravely charged up the middle ladder for 4+ hours during the siege of Jelkala in the old strategus. (Someone canceled the attack and re-attacked without enough ladders)

The Disaster at Jelkala.

It was horrible. Bloody, long, and disheartening. We had planned so carefully. We had stores and stores of armor, racks and racks of weapons. We had arrows by the tonne, and had been careful in our recruiting, only the best and brightest warriors and nobles were accepted. Our engineers had carefully planned what we we need for the attack, so we thought we were ready.

A miscalculation somewhere resulted in only 50 ladders being brought for the siege of the walls, instead of 500. With the sturdy ramp we built that could not be destroyed, we pushed well until the stores of ladders ran low, then it became a blood bath. Their archers stood upon the ramparts, hooting with derision as they launched flight after flight of arrows at our ranks, felling warriors with every volley. They laughed at our misfortune, and thought themselves safe. But they were wrong.

Hours dragged by as the defenders demeanor changed. From laughing, to grudging admiration for our tenacity, to horror when their stores of arrows began running low. Our stalwart allies and mercenaries stuck with us, and stayed the course through the slaughter. When the defenders had fired the last of their arrows, we marched up the only ramp, and slaughtered them to the man in bloody hand to hand fighting through the streets. It was a dark time, but much glory was won, and friendships were made that would endure for ages.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 23, 2011, 05:34:37 pm
I might do that, perhaps put the perma ladder half buried in the ground with a skeleton in it. Was already thinking of having some ruins in the map since they're the same stone type as the Rhodok buildings.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 30, 2011, 05:45:23 am
Finished with Jelkala, it's a much simpler city that others that I've made, but I think it still works well. Partly is the way it is because the city on this map was far less centered than many other maps, so there wasn't a ton of room anyway. I'm somewhat interested to see if the battle will mostly take place at the walls or in the narrow streets. For now the gate is open-able, but that can be changed.

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Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 30, 2011, 05:47:18 pm
Damn your a machine, keep up the good work man!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on August 30, 2011, 10:49:23 pm
Next stop, Rivacheg visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on August 30, 2011, 11:08:29 pm
< Khudan
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on September 03, 2011, 01:16:49 am
Due to a current collision problem with the vaegir house prop collisions, I'm putting Rivacheg on hold. Going to work on Curaw
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Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Peasant_Woman on September 03, 2011, 07:44:38 am
Sorry that it took as long as it did, but Uxkhal is done;
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3200 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3200)

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I've got nothing to do today, so I'll work on Town 14 - Halmar next.

EDIT: I just noticed upon starting on Halmar that some towns have invalid scene props in the prop overview that don't have a model or a texture, we can safely get rid of these to help performance a bit. Anything that lowers the prop count without affecting gameplay or making the map look too artificial.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on September 03, 2011, 10:30:54 am
Don't worry about the time, no ones attacking any cities right now and rushing to get it done takes the fun out of it anyway. It looks quite nice no me, like a good agricultural center for the area. I am curious as to the spawn set up in this map. Any spawns in the outer wall, or would defenders need to ladder down to it to get there. Perhaps a small portcullis and winch sally door in the wall would be a good thing? Looking forward to seeing Halmar
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on September 06, 2011, 03:06:27 am
Note to all people that want to make a city. 0-9 are attacker spawns, attacker equip spawns 1 meter behind point 0. 10-63 are defender spawns. Defender equip is at point 65. Figured given recent events with the unedited Dhirm, I should reinforce the need to get this right.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on September 06, 2011, 10:13:50 am
Updated Suno and Tulga.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Peasant_Woman on September 06, 2011, 02:07:56 pm
Don't worry about the time, no ones attacking any cities right now and rushing to get it done takes the fun out of it anyway. It looks quite nice no me, like a good agricultural center for the area. I am curious as to the spawn set up in this map. Any spawns in the outer wall, or would defenders need to ladder down to it to get there?

The are no defender spawns on the lower wall, I honestly think anyone spawning there would be overwhelmed with the number of attackers hopping the wall almost instantly and any defenders spawning there later would be on a suicide mission.

Perhaps a small portcullis and winch sally door in the wall would be a good thing? Looking forward to seeing Halmar.

There are four gate houses in Uxkhal, two in the outer wall which will be opened fairly quickly I imagine, and two on the inner wall - these are lined up directly behind the ones in the outer wall and I expect these to be much more defensible. This allows defenders to 'sally out' if they wish.

Note to all people that want to make a city. 0-9 are attacker spawns, attacker equip spawns 1 meter behind point 0. 10-63 are defender spawns. Defender equip is at point 65. Figured given recent events with the unedited Dhirm, I should reinforce the need to get this right.

Maybe a good Idea to quote chadz from another scene thread into the OP then?

Spawn points work with the entry system.
Right now it looks like this:

0:        Attacker. (The storage for attackers is always one meter behind 0.)
1-9:     Reserved for addtional attacker spawns, but currently not used. (Place them anyway)
32:      Defender spawn (in village)
10-63: Defender spawn (castles, towns)
66->65->64->32: Checks in this order if one of the points exists and spawns the construction material storage for the defenders there.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on September 19, 2011, 02:35:38 pm
Khudan:

A bit smaller, more of a regular town. One main gatehouse and a second on on the side (for access to the inner keep), no "outer access" to town.
The outer barriers are more to the sides then shown in the picture. Some polished buildings were used, but they are only used as prop buildings at the sides (due to collisions being wonky).

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(click to show/hide)

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3243
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on September 19, 2011, 02:42:51 pm
Looks good, added to OP
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on September 19, 2011, 02:45:18 pm
Next up Reyvadin. Narra! (Reyvadin on hold, Narra is more fun at the moment)

Also, remade Suno somewhat, with performance in mind. Removed most of the props, lots of grass (where you can't see it anyway) and other various similar tweaks: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3244
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on September 30, 2011, 01:12:20 am
Would Warcat edit the first post to get the complete list of towns.

town_1 Sargoth
town_2 Tihr
town_3 Veluca
town_4 Suno
town_5 Jelkala
town_6 Praven
town_7 Uxkhal
town_8 Reyvadin
town_9 Khudan
town_10 Tulga
town_11 Curaw
town_12 Wercheg
town_13 Rivacheg
town_14 Halmar
town_15 Yalen
town_16 Dhirim
town_17 Ichamur
town_18 Narra
town_19 Shariz
town_20 Durquba
town_21 Ahmerrad
town_22 Bariyye
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on September 30, 2011, 03:36:33 pm
Done
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on September 30, 2011, 11:25:23 pm
I will start working with Yalen and i wanna make Veluca after it. :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on September 30, 2011, 11:41:59 pm
I'll have a go at Tihr!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 01, 2011, 02:28:28 am
Updated, was beginning to think no one else was going to volunteer to make any.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 01, 2011, 12:24:37 pm
Nice! Finally, the end of the tunnel.

Also, I'm working on Narra, not Reyvadin (switched).
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 01, 2011, 01:33:39 pm
I think I'm done with Tihr. Here are some screens:

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 (http://bildr.no/view/988089)
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 (http://bildr.no/view/988090)
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 (http://bildr.no/view/988091)
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 (http://bildr.no/view/988092)
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 (http://bildr.no/view/988093)

Lots of spawnpoints at the middle of the map, and quite a lot on the walls. Removed the ramp leading up to the wall. Almost all roofs are closed off, except the 5 front towers on the wall, and the tower in the middle of the town.

Download: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3279
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 01, 2011, 08:57:44 pm
Ok, I've beefed up the town a bit, adding more background buildings and fortified the center more. Changed the keep to the destroyed version (so you can go inside it). Darkened the ground textures to better fit with the dark viking buildings. More detailed ground texturing as well.

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 (http://bildr.no/view/988377)

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 (http://bildr.no/view/988378)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 01, 2011, 09:08:18 pm
Heads up for people using lots of fake houses (like me): You'll wanna use as few objects with collisions meshes as possible (stuff that hinders your movement in any way). Fake_houses_xx have a front with collisions meshes, fake_houses_xx_far doesn't. So if you feel your "running" low, use them instead.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 01, 2011, 09:32:54 pm
I guess this also means using as few barriers as possible? Anyways, here is the last version of Tihr before we get to test it: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3279
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 03, 2011, 09:23:27 pm
Cake Town aka Narra:

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Got some small tweaks to do, look over the spawn points and such *cough*, will upload it later tonight.

There we go: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3282
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 04, 2011, 04:57:16 am
Looks tasty! Yet on another note, :( my grand keep at Bariyye just got serious competition for most defensible stronghold. I'm guessing the spawns are somewhat weighted toward the back?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 04, 2011, 05:23:35 am
Oh I forgot to say that I'm working on Shariz now. It's coming along nicely, though it is more much complex than a Nord town, so it is going take a few days before it is somewhat complete.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 04, 2011, 02:26:10 pm
Warcat: The spawns are about 50/50 outer walls keep. Might change that later, but I figure a lot of the fighting will be on the out walls and it's nice as a defender not having to run all that way.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on October 05, 2011, 03:43:53 pm
Yalen
Download link: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3287

Map needs testing.

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 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/mbwarband20111004210847.jpg/)

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 05, 2011, 04:41:12 pm
Very nice looking map Mustikki, as always.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on October 05, 2011, 08:20:34 pm
You made a really nice looking map too Ozin :)

I also started working with Veluca now.

ps. If you guys don't want to make copy pasted maps, use town_##_center to modify a siege map instead than town_##_walls.
- Or atleast get influence's from it.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 05, 2011, 11:34:48 pm
Good suggestion Mustikki. Maps are looking great, keep it up guys.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 06, 2011, 06:05:47 pm
Phew! Finished with Shariz now, finally! I'll wait a few days before I decide on what to do next, as I might want to look over my previous maps again.

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 (http://bildr.no/view/992724)

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 (http://bildr.no/view/992725)

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 (http://bildr.no/view/992726)

Download: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3293
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 07, 2011, 12:51:08 am
Updated the OP. Yalen looks good, particularly since the base map is already a proven good place to play multiplayer battles.  Shariz looks like lots of fun, Ozin, do you have a link for it? Also, Jacko, can I take the asterisk off of Narra or do you think it may need another test?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 07, 2011, 01:08:35 am
Gonna make some small adjustments, but nothing big. I think it can be considered "tested and done".
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 07, 2011, 01:10:01 am
good to hear it went well, would've liked to have been able to make it to the fight.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Bjarky on October 07, 2011, 01:45:58 am
Gonna make some small adjustments, but nothing big. I think it can be considered "tested and done".
yeah there where some things on the Narra map wich could be improved.
first of all i wanna say, that u did some great work with the map, the 2 level idea is an great addition for a city map.
so i'm not like hatin or anything, just want to help pointing things out that could improve the map :)

wall to the right of gates (defender view) needs a fix.
(click to show/hide)

the cs could use an better and usefull location for defenders than this.
(click to show/hide)

the top level towers could use a mini stair or stepping thingy, u have to jump in order to get in.
(click to show/hide)

and then we got some accessible areas on the top level behind the towers wich aren't usefull, because they are behind the map and have no real purpose for the battle, also 1-2 top towers on the back aren't needed either, for the same reason, u could maybe just put an invisible wall up there to block it off.
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
that is all i could come up with, hope it helps  :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 07, 2011, 10:49:53 am
Updated the OP. Yalen looks good, particularly since the base map is already a proven good place to play multiplayer battles.  Shariz looks like lots of fun, Ozin, do you have a link for it? Also, Jacko, can I take the asterisk off of Narra or do you think it may need another test?
Ah, forgot to include a download. http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3293
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on October 13, 2011, 01:45:12 pm
Veluca

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3302

(click to show/hide)

ps. i will start working with Dhirim next.
Also, i think the map testing for maps, would be able to do with just few ppl online a.k.a. beta testers.

pps. another tip. Try to avoid placing spawn points in to walls, that obviously gets destroyed.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 13, 2011, 11:49:44 pm
Yeah.. I'll have to revisit All of the maps replacing flags.. Or could it be possible to let the flag be destroyed when the wall is? Could make for another layer of "choice the right spawn location".
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on October 13, 2011, 11:58:25 pm
I think it is easier, just to move the flags for now.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 14, 2011, 12:12:33 pm
Stop turning my laziness against me!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: dynamike on October 19, 2011, 08:36:32 pm
Wow, most of these look awesome! They really picked some great map makers for this job.

Can't wait to see (and conquer) Reyvadin  :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on October 29, 2011, 09:49:13 pm
well if no one is already working on wercheg i'll try editing it, starting tomorrow
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 30, 2011, 04:01:24 am
I updated the OP for you, good luck.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on October 30, 2011, 07:38:00 pm
thanks
basic terrain is done, starting with the town
I edited the terrain heavily, changing the outer terrain and making a sea coast on one side which wasn't in the original map, is it ok or should i keep more of the original? I'm trying to make the terrain and town recall the position on the map (actually looking closely at the map probably the town should be in front of a flat coast amongst cliffs -and reading around i noticed it's a sea trading town? i still haven't played strategus so i don't know the details, but it probably would be nice to make a large harbour and market to reflect the town's role; please give some advice :) )
screenshot
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 30, 2011, 09:06:25 pm
That looks good, It is definitely a coastal city looking at its place on the map. Just curious, will the main attack direction be coming from the port itself, or will that just be on the side?
actually looking closely at the map probably the town should be in front of a flat coast amongst cliffs
I also agree with this
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on October 30, 2011, 09:32:04 pm
I thought to make the attack come from the area where the road is, so the side.
Hmm but i may make an alternative path for attackers via the port making it larger and on flat coast..going to check it out.

edit: i should be close to finish now (2-3 days more at most)
(click to show/hide)
only i'm not sure about some things:
1) are all buildings and walls destroyable?
2) i've read some new props have not perfect collisions, is there a way to test the map hosting it like in native? (also to check doors opening side, gate operating and arrow shooting from behind parapets)
3) how do spawns work? there's a lot of sparse info but it really takes much time to get an idea, is there a guide somewhere? (unless i manage to join a siege and see myself)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on November 03, 2011, 07:40:17 pm
Looking good Aelfwine, I especially like the pier.

1)
-All walls will be destructible, no buildings yet.

2)
-You can test by hosting a multiplayer map with bots, or better yet doing all your editing there instead of in the scene chooser. Avoid polished buildings, most of them do not have proper collisions. If you're having problem with this for any reason join irc and ask around there.

3)
-All you need to know is in the main page really. Put 0-9 for attackers and 10-63 for defenders. Flags can be captured. Avoid flags on walls as they float in the air if the wall collapses. 
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on November 04, 2011, 12:02:47 am
^^
thanks for the answers jacko
there are just a couple props (swadia small wall plank) i'd use; i'll ask around on irc (it's the link in the upper right in this forum right?), also because i don't know how to host and have crpg props, unless i'm missing something
so flags are defenders spawn (entry) points, that don't spawn anymore if attackers get close, right?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jarlek on November 04, 2011, 12:33:28 am
-snip
so flags are defenders spawn (entry) points, that don't spawn anymore if attackers get close, right?
-snip-
First of all, nice work! That's one sweet dock!

As for the question. The flags are where the defenders/attackers spawn. People can always spawn there unless they are captured. This is done by looking at them and pressing (in reality, spamming because of no ingame clue when it will work) F. There must also be no enemies around. They can also be re-captured with the same method.

Hope that helps you put them in logical/good spots!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on November 04, 2011, 11:20:35 am
Planks and all those smaller props works. Rest of the stuff will removed at some point.

Hosting is just like in native: Host a multiplayer map (with edit on), press ctrl-e and edit away in real time. But, that option is removed from cRPG.. So unless you have the right props in another module (install polished buildings on a clean native) you'll need a modified cRPG to be able to host.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on November 04, 2011, 05:53:08 pm
great, thanks guys i figured things out
the viking keep  and other "inhabitable" buildings can be "strong points" with spawns inside
i'll check doors, gate and parapets in native since i placed few non native props and then finish the map, only spawns, barriers and some "furniture" left to place
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jarlek on November 04, 2011, 06:55:53 pm
great, thanks guys i figured things out
the viking keep  and other "inhabitable" buildings can be "strong points" with spawns inside
i'll check doors, gate and parapets in native since i placed few non native props and then finish the map, only spawns, barriers and some "furniture" left to place
(click to show/hide)
Nice! That actually makes sense, people spawning inside buildings etc, it makes for some defense around the spawn AND makes it clearer/more viable for attackers to take spawn after spawn. Clear the house out and then cap the spawn, not fight randomly in some field and notice there's a small flag in the middle.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on November 05, 2011, 04:53:05 pm
map done, will surely need some tweaks
it was easy to check it hosting by just replacing one of the siege maps in a new native folder and editing the relative scenes.txt line; the non-recognized props just appeared as unidentified object (now i know what's that scene prop for :D); only needed to replace the big question marks with those new props, after adjusting doors, but there were just a few.

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3363 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3363)

i made a screen with rough defender spawn points placement for critic
i added entry point 64 behind last gate because i read in this thread that it should spawn construction material storage for defenders, not sure i did right
(click to show/hide)

and some random screens
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on November 07, 2011, 09:03:56 pm
any comment on the map? how are the spawn points placed? any tweak to do?
if the map is alright i'd start with another if it's ok, although i'm a bit in a creativity crisis at the moment -not many new ideas for sieges.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on November 07, 2011, 11:08:59 pm
I don't even have warband installed on my computer right now (so I can't look at it ingame), but from the pictures it looks good. I'm sure Warcat will add it to the list ones he's back from whatever he's doing. Go ahead and start with another map. Most of the mappers (me included) seem to be laying low at the moment, playing other games or occupied with RL stuff. You caught us at a bad time : )
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 08, 2011, 09:00:16 am
Looks quite good, I'm sure someone will be looking forward to taking this ocean-front property. I updated the OP, start on another map whenever you feel like it (Only 4 left unclaimed).
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on November 08, 2011, 12:53:18 pm
lol, my usual main skill, the lack of timing :)
Ok, i'll start with Durquba then, it looks interesting.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on November 08, 2011, 09:30:57 pm
I have started Dhirim, but had to delay it due to being busy irl.

Also, i checked the sarranid cities, and there is very good skeletons under Durquba and Ahmerrad, Town_Center file.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on November 09, 2011, 11:29:46 am
I have started Dhirim, but had to delay it due to being busy irl.

Also, i checked the sarranid cities, and there is very good skeletons under Durquba and Ahmerrad, Town_Center file.

Wow, thanks for sharing the info, i'll include durquba town center in the siege, it's really nice (and it will speed up the work), i would have never thought to check that : )
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on November 23, 2011, 06:56:47 pm
well i'm taking it easy, had too few ideas, was ill for a few days, so Durquba is still work in progress : )
(click to show/hide)

also i updated Wercheg, it needed some props and ground paint for the background part that could be seen from rooftops
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3363 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3363)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 23, 2011, 08:37:46 pm
Looks good so far, as I know you've noticed, you're not the only one taking it easy (at least in map creation). But nonetheless we've all already made good progress. Better to take your time with a good map than make a rushed map that everyone hates playing.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Whalen207 on December 13, 2011, 02:08:09 am
Well I'm back after about a year of hiatus and a brief, expensive foray in 3D modeling.
I want to make some maps, of course. Mind if I polish up Curaw?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on December 13, 2011, 06:11:35 am
go ahead, its all yours
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Aelfwine on December 18, 2011, 11:24:04 pm
ok, durquba done; it took some time to think to the possible attack strategies, roofs were a bit of a problem.
truly it's better to take time making as good as possible a map; it's just when i'm inspired i just want to see how it will look when finished :oops:

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3424 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3424)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on December 19, 2011, 04:30:44 pm
looks good, updated OP
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Peasant_Woman on January 10, 2012, 02:03:36 am
Finished Halmar.
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3468 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3468)

Screenshots
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on January 10, 2012, 03:06:39 am
Looking excellent, Peasant_Woman. Good job  :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Bjarky on January 10, 2012, 06:19:51 am
woah nice work, finally that town is a real siege map now  :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on January 10, 2012, 12:04:38 pm
Guess i had to finish Dhirim as i started it.
So here it is.
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3469


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/dhirim1.jpg/)

Playing area

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 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/807/dhirim2.jpg/)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on January 10, 2012, 07:50:52 pm
Good job the both of you.. 

..for giving me a guilty conscious over not finishing Reyvadin!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on January 13, 2012, 06:10:13 am
Updated OP. They both look good. Particularly nice to Halmar done since Bjarky has been wanting that one done for ages.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on January 13, 2012, 12:30:19 pm
Only 3 WIP maps and 1 undone map left to finish now :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: ShinySpoons on January 19, 2012, 12:47:58 am
You guys are boss o.o
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on January 20, 2012, 04:47:49 pm
I will start working on Ahmerrad.

ps. This is how the Ahmerrad is going to be once its ready.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/ahmerk.jpg/)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Bjarky on January 20, 2012, 09:49:51 pm
can you guys pls recheck the city maps and put invisible walls on the house roofs and other unwanted places, so people can't glitch trough the maps  :P
apart from that, great work guys  :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Olwen on January 21, 2012, 12:46:42 am
Good job the both of you.. 

..for giving me a guilty conscious over not finishing Reyvadin!

Don't forget to add the hero's statue ...  :lol:
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on January 23, 2012, 08:56:29 pm
So, the battle of Shariz (lol) went very well indeed, defenders held out valiantly against the iron monster of DRZ.

Currently we have 2 maps that are in dire need of a remake, and those are Praven and Khudan, both having lots of Polished Building stuff in them. I'm taking care of Khudan which is my map anyway. Do you have time to fix yours Warcat?

EDIT:

Ah yes as Barky pointed out, Uxkhal also needs to get looked over as well. Peasant_Woman, you up for it?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Bjarky on January 23, 2012, 09:48:35 pm
don't forget uxkhal  :P
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on January 23, 2012, 11:32:46 pm
Ahmerrad

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/ahmerrad2.jpg/)

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3501
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on January 24, 2012, 01:08:19 am
I updated the OP, I'm not going to have time anytime soon to do Rivacheg, so someone else can take that one if they want. I'll see if I can get around to doing fixes for Praven fairly soon. I liked the look of those polished buildings so much, its a shame the house meshes are so far off.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on January 24, 2012, 05:15:38 pm
I will make the Rivacheg then.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on January 25, 2012, 11:43:00 am
Praven and Khudan updated.

Khudan: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3243

I wont upload the updated Praven, but it will, "until further notice" be the one we use in Strategus.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Mustikki on January 26, 2012, 02:11:57 pm
Rivacheg is ready

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3502

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/rivacheg.jpg/)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on January 26, 2012, 04:45:32 pm
Reyvadin
-now with rain!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/reyvadinearlymorning.jpg/)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/reyvadintease.jpg/)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/mb40.jpg/)

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3505 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3505)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Lordark on January 26, 2012, 07:36:59 pm
God bless you good developers and modders for keeping an almost 10 year old game alive! God bless ye all!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on January 27, 2012, 04:22:01 am
Both are looking really cool. I love the Venitian take on Reyvadin.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Peasant_Woman on January 27, 2012, 01:54:29 pm
Uxkhal updated. http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3200 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3200)

If I find time i'll likely go back and cast a fresh eye over Sargoth too.

Reyvadin and Rivacheg are both looking fantastic! Almost finished guys  :)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on January 27, 2012, 11:50:15 pm
Whalen207 hasn't been active for over a month and does not answer PM's, so consider Curaw unassigned again.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Whalen207 on February 04, 2012, 12:59:52 am
Ach no! It's almost done!
I never check my PMs though, guilty as charged.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Whalen207 on February 04, 2012, 01:54:39 am
Flag entry points needed, right?
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on February 04, 2012, 02:34:22 am
All the entrypoints needed are explained in the first post. I'm not sure what you mean by "flag entry points".. The small flags you spawn on in strategus are spawned on the specific entrypoints by the game when the map is run in strategus mode.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on February 05, 2012, 07:49:12 am
With so much now done I figured I'd add some fun to the page with a poll, enjoy!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Whalen207 on February 06, 2012, 04:58:57 am
(click to show/hide)

I fucked up the terrain code and had to start from scratch.
But here's what I've got sofar. Keep in mind those catapults are props
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jarlek on February 06, 2012, 04:47:55 pm
Personally, I think you should remove all catapult and siege shield props. The attackers will obviously know they are that, but what about the defenders who waste arrows or a sally charge, thinking to bring down the attackers catapult/siege shields? Yeah, it's not gonna happen often, but any of the creatable/placable items ought not to be there as props to avoid confusion. Same goes for the prop used for construction site.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 01, 2012, 08:29:29 am
Was in a battle at Durquba earlier and couldn't help but notice a couple of invalid objects showing up as giant question marks near entry points 10-12, and after quickly looking through the maps, Wercheg and Shariz have the same issue.  Also there were a what looked like a couple wall props accidentally placed sticking out from the top of some building on the right side by the edge of the map. Also, did Curaw ever get finished? It doesn't appear to be from what I can tell.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Bjarky on October 01, 2012, 09:21:21 am
yeh i think curaw was done, we played on it last strat, seemed done  :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 01, 2012, 09:23:38 am
just looking through the scene files, it's the only one that currently has the original scene.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jarold on October 01, 2012, 09:49:09 am
I've had some experience mapping for other mods. I'll be honest and say i've never done a siege map before, but I can learn. I'd be more then happy to take a free town and try to make it better. If you are accepting new slaves that is?

Some of my work for another mod...http://forum.nordinvasion.com/index.php/topic,6216.0.html
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 01, 2012, 09:54:30 am
We've pretty much finished with the cities 6 months ago, however looks like Jacko may want some volunteers to help out with the current project.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/scene-editing/new-community-map-project-in-the-making-what-would-you-like-to-see-improved/
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jarold on October 01, 2012, 09:54:58 am
Oh lol, ok i'll look there.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 01, 2012, 12:18:52 pm
I think Jacko fixed the missing scene props some days ago, just need to update the server I guess.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 01, 2012, 02:48:40 pm
The missing scene props should be fixed. Curaw probably had lots of polished buildings (same with khudan), and was reset due to them being removed. Khudan is fixed, Curaw still needs an overhaul it seems. So if anyone is up for it..
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 04, 2012, 02:47:13 pm
I'll go ahead and take care of Curaw then so this thing can officially be finished beyond minor fixes.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 09, 2012, 02:18:45 am
Curaw (http://mountandblade.nexusmods.com/mods/3820)
(click to show/hide)

Personally I preferred the old file repository over this nexus thing, but I think that link will work.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 09, 2012, 09:38:22 am
Looks good, added to the mod.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 10, 2012, 06:25:02 am
Cool. Good job by all the people that contributed. Looking forward to playing some more of these maps in game.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 14, 2012, 10:57:16 pm
Just watched the siege of Yalen. The map worked really well. Attackers quickly took the outer walls but had to fight through the city and were unable to take the keep. Only minor flaw I noticed was that there is a spot in the back left part of the keep where people can jump from the outer to the inner wall allowing some people to sneak into the keep and almost capture it when most of the fight was still going on just behind the walls. Fix that one little thing and that map is perfect.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Ozin on October 15, 2012, 02:52:03 pm
Congratulations for a job well done Warcat, and to all who contributed!
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on October 31, 2012, 09:01:11 am
With a battle at Reyvadin in the near future seeming more and more likely, I went back and took another look at it and noticed a couple issues you may want to address.
-That barrier in the back should probably be raised a bit, most likely wouldn't be an issue, but if the defenders have any siege ladders they could easily bridge their way over the barrier and have the entire back out of bounds open to them.
-The far side of the front wall has a potentially troubling issue. Without jumping back and forth on the battlements or using ladders, the defenders have no access to a large portion of playable wall. I'd suggest adding a few steps from the wall to the tower, and adding one of the little ladder props or something of the sort to make the roof of that river gateway accessible without making a dangerous jump from the top of the battlement.
-Might be good if there was a place or two where people could get out of the river as well since it is not deep enough to kill people who fall in.
(click to show/hide)
Apart from that it looks like a great map, really hoping I can make it to that fight.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on October 31, 2012, 10:24:20 am
Fixed and commited, in with the next patch.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: kinngrimm on October 31, 2012, 11:00:01 am
Khudan

when you count the wall segments from the invisible walls on the right on, then there at the 2.|3. where a house on the  back of that wall is close to the wall. When that wall is being shot by catapults, you are able to just walk straight through the wall.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 03, 2012, 06:33:51 am
(click to show/hide)
Couple pictures from the siege of Reyvadin. Was a great battle and fun was had by all (or at least most). Jacko definitely had a big success making this one. I didn't actually see a lot of the early battle because I was busy wrecking the walls. But there didn't seems to be any problems with the map.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Tanken on November 03, 2012, 06:58:09 am
Since Curaw may be the next on the list. Make it a city, and no just a big wall for fighting please. Thanks.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 03, 2012, 07:54:35 am
There's a large variety of maps just as there is a large variety of cities. Curaw certainly is very different from Reyvadin, but they all have their own various intricacies, none of them are just a big wall.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on November 03, 2012, 02:28:26 pm
Well, glad it worked out, and I'm happy that my last minute fiddling didn't ruin anything (it shouldn't, but.. you know how it is).
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Tanken on November 03, 2012, 03:47:19 pm
There's a large variety of maps just as there is a large variety of cities. Curaw certainly is very different from Reyvadin, but they all have their own various intricacies, none of them are just a big wall.

Unless it has changed since last strat...yeah, it's a big wall. It's like the front wall at Reyvadin (the whole map). If you take the whole first tier wall on reyvadin, with the little landing behind it, that's the only two spots on Curaw to fight.



I believe if we search the hierarchy of strat posts, there's a video of it somewhere.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 03, 2012, 08:30:24 pm
It has changed since last strat. Curaw was the last city to be finished.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: kinngrimm on November 05, 2012, 08:26:22 pm
(click to show/hide)
also there is no working gate in front walls as far as i remember
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on November 05, 2012, 08:46:02 pm
also there is no working gate in front walls as far as i remember

Why would there be a working gate? When was the battle? I know it was changed a couple of weeks ago. Still unsure what wall you mean, can you take a picture? Open up the Scene Editor and go to scn_town_9_walls.

(the edit, another fail Quote :))
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: kinngrimm on November 06, 2012, 05:14:49 pm
Why would there be a working gate? When was the battle? I know it was changed a couple of weeks ago. Still unsure what wall you mean, can you take a picture? Open up the Scene Editor and go to scn_town_9_walls.

(the edit, another fail Quote :))
battles were at end of last strat 3.0, when i came back from the abyss.

One thing i remember clearly, is that with getting down the wall on the left of the formost reachable right tower, you were able to go through the remains.
Always speaking of the front walls, i think i remember that there wasnt a working gate, perhaps no gate at all, which i was confused by at that time, but i am not 100% sure anymore about that, as it is quite a while ago.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 06, 2012, 10:35:08 pm
Plenty of cities have no gate on the battle map. It's not really necessary that the attackers make their attack only on parts of the city where gates are.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Bjarky on November 08, 2012, 10:28:45 pm
The village of Saren in Strat has a retarded spawn for attackers.
Would be nice to have that moved to a more balanced position than below a big hill next to the village :wink:
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 09, 2012, 03:49:57 am
I think Tash Kulun is(or at least was) the same way. However this thread only concerns cities. I'd suggest mentioning something about it on one of these threads

[Feedback] Maps on official servers  (http://forum.meleegaming.com/scene-editing/%28feedback%29-maps-on-official-servers/)
or maybe
Community Map Project - Strategus Fixin'  (http://forum.meleegaming.com/scene-editing/new-community-map-project-in-the-making-what-would-you-like-to-see-improved/)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on November 09, 2012, 08:21:12 am
Warcat is indeed correct, wrong thread. This is thread is about City improvement.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Bjarky on November 09, 2012, 09:46:05 am
yeh, just didn't think it fitted to the Maps on official servers thread.
i will post in Community Map Project - Strategus Fixin' then.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on November 09, 2012, 09:58:11 am
No need, you have alerted the right people :D
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: KillerofFlowers on November 11, 2012, 10:19:01 am
(click to show/hide)
Battle for Curaw was a great turnout and i like the city just had a few bugs that i noticed....
             1.the front wall when the catapult hit it made gaps in between the walls and they could just walk right in
             2.if ur looking at the castle from the attackers point of view, on the far left wall u can ladder to a tower that u stand on an invisible wall
             3.the inner keep has a door thats blocked, that should be oppened up so that defenders can access that wall
     
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 11, 2012, 05:21:45 pm
Glad it went well. Wanted to be there, but after an awesome night in RL, I was just to tired to stay up for it. Was hoping someone would take pics, so thanks for that. As for the comments you made:
1. Interesting that it does that. That's one area where I just kept the wall pretty much the same as the original, didn't think about the fact that when the damaged replacement comes in, it doesn't match up with the size of the original. There's probably several maps that need to be checked for that so it's not an issue in the future.
2. Yeah, need to make that barrier taller, should be a quick and easy fix.
3. Didn't really see any importance to making an accessible wall there since no one is coming from that way, but I could add that in.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: KillerofFlowers on November 11, 2012, 08:16:43 pm
yea for that wall there were some ladders being put to it from the siege tower and people were using that tower on that wall. Some1 was actually hiding in the tower there and caused it so that the attackers couldnt get the flags underneath that tower. i think the best thing would be to make that tower accessible with some flags in it.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: kinngrimm on November 12, 2012, 01:04:48 pm
Curaws inner keeps point of view

1) The left side is completly inaccessible. It would be nice if people from the outisde but also from the inside could ladder onto those houses from left walls there to the houses and vice versa. So defenders may use them as defense area and attackers as bridge points.

2) Front right tower wasn't accessible either through houses infront of it, invisible walls were denying that option.

3) not 100% sure but the back walls of inner keep havent had flags on them?

4) stairs to the back walls of the inner keep would be a nice thing to have, or even that that keep in the back could be used for that.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 12, 2012, 01:51:15 pm
The back wall  did have some spawns on it. I never intended for  the right tower to have direct access to the roof from either way, for this map I want all roof access to require ladders. Based on the feedback I've seen I'm going to make some adjustments to the keep and expand the defenders left side a little bit.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 12, 2012, 03:34:29 pm
Updated (http://mountandblade.nexusmods.com/mods/3820) Curaw. Fixed several glitch spots, the main change was additions to the keep. Ended up deciding to remove the invisible barrier separating the defenders far right tower from the houses as well.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: kinngrimm on November 12, 2012, 03:41:44 pm
that will make it tougher on the defense but that is ok :)
aslong the defense also is able to make use of those houses.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Warcat on November 12, 2012, 05:01:54 pm
Yeah, that's part of of why I decided to go ahead remove the barrier keeping defenders from jumping down to the roof on their right, just to give them a little extra help. Overall, this place is not particularly easy to defend, but once you take it, that becomes your problem to deal with. If anyone wanted a map that's easy to defend, they should've taken Bariyye.

Also, posted a small update to Praven (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3149)
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Jacko on November 12, 2012, 05:21:58 pm
Updated and commited the two above, gj maintaining the maps. You're never truly done with a map.
Title: Ichamur strat map
Post by: Loki on December 24, 2012, 05:58:39 am
There is a defender flag that is behind an invisible wall.  If you are looking towards the wall from the attackers spawn, it's on the far left side.

Makes attacking impossible since one flag is uncappable.  We did manage to cap it but it took 45 minutes trying to glitch through the invisible wall.
Title: Re: Ichamur strat map
Post by: Ramza on December 24, 2012, 06:12:42 am
http://imgur.com/a/UFZBD

Screenies of aforementioned flag.
Title: Re: Ichamur strat map
Post by: Malaclypse on December 24, 2012, 06:14:27 am
http://imgur.com/a/UFZBD

Screenies of aforementioned flag.

Woah you didn't have a foggy dark map? What a rip off.
Title: Re: Ichamur strat map
Post by: Jack1 on December 24, 2012, 06:16:01 am
yes.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Canary on April 19, 2013, 11:52:01 am
I've edited the map and moved that offending flag in Ichamur beyond the invisible walls into the city proper.

scn_town_17_walls.sco on mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?odsvkampq4xmswh)


...and it only took someone four months!

Patch is required to implement map changes, unfortunately, so there's no telling when it'll truly get fixed.

In the meantime, are any other city maps still suffering from horribly crippling bugs like this? I may as well take a look at them, if no one else is available.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 19, 2013, 11:54:19 am
I've edited the map and moved that offending flag in Ichamur beyond the invisible walls into the city proper.

http://www.mediafire.com/?odsvkampq4xmswh


...and it only took someone four months!

Patch is required to implement map fixes, unfortunately, so there's no telling when it'll truly get fixed.

In the meantime, are any other city maps still suffering from horribly crippling bugs like this? I may as well take a look at them, if no one else is available.

There was a village we fought in a little while back where the attacker flags were in an unreachable area.  I think it was in the steppe but I forgot exactly which battle.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Malaclypse on April 19, 2013, 11:56:55 am
There was a village we fought in a little while back where the attacker flags were in an unreachable area.  I think it was in the steppe but I forgot exactly which battle.
'

I know for a fact there's a desert one, I'll try to figure out which. Rohy BADPLAYER attacked it one time when we had like, a really small roster, but we were able to hold out and kill droves of defenders due to the fact that they literally could not cap our flags.

Edit: Dhibbain (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=1358). Sauce was signed up on attackers, we might've won if he was there, lol.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Canary on April 19, 2013, 12:42:54 pm
Might as well post issues in one place, and since this thread is specifically for improving cities (towns), I reckon we ought to send our general map issues here:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/scene-editing/strategus-map-feedback/
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Keshian on June 28, 2013, 05:02:35 pm
Dhirim - the invisible walls were poorly drawn so that you can ladder up over one arch along the path to the inner keep but not the second one as attackers, yet defenders cans till ladder up to the arch to shoot.  It creates a series of near unbreakable chokepoints since there are invisible walls all along both sides of a narrow path through the city.  The invisible wall over the arches need to be removed - the sides are enough.

While we are at it the invisible walls in attackers spawns are in front of the siege shields instead of behind them.  Also, the inner keep defense was poorly designed with multiple rooms with one doorway making it next to impossible to do anything once attackers get inside as along as you have shields blocking the doorway.  A partial fix for that is to have ladder access above, instead of an unbreakable wooden archer's nest.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Artyem on June 29, 2013, 07:17:54 am
oh my god please fix Dhirim
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Penguin on June 29, 2013, 11:48:37 am
Dhirim - the invisible walls were poorly drawn so that you can ladder up over one arch along the path to the inner keep but not the second one as attackers, yet defenders cans till ladder up to the arch to shoot.  It creates a series of near unbreakable chokepoints since there are invisible walls all along both sides of a narrow path through the city.  The invisible wall over the arches need to be removed - the sides are enough.

 Also, the inner keep defense was poorly designed with multiple rooms with one doorway making it next to impossible to do anything once attackers get inside as along as you have shields blocking the doorway.  A partial fix for that is to have ladder access above, instead of an unbreakable wooden archer's nest.
These aren't even valid complaints. It would only weaken Dhirrims defense and make it easier on attackers. The entire point of a castle is to make it difficult to take.  More valid problems are the walls of Samarra displaying that they are broken completely but not having the ability to walk through them.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Malaclypse on June 29, 2013, 04:58:24 pm
Ichamur and Dhibbain edits still aren't even added, RIP.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Artyem on June 30, 2013, 09:13:30 am
The invisible walls and the inner keep makes taking this city (Dhirim) damn near impossible.

(click to show/hide)

As seen in the above picture, the walls make it so that attackers can't ladder up pretty much anywhere and make any form of flanking basically inconceivable.  In the end, this leaves the defenders with a small unbreakable wooden door that leads to a room with a staircase that leads to another room.  Not only do they spawn in these rooms, but the tiny door makes it overly difficult to charge in without getting shot / bonked / stabbed / knocked down several times in a row.  Most of the time as an attacker you can't even make it past the shield wall, crossbow bolts go through your shield, causing you to get stunned which results in your impalement and evisceration.

The first arch that leads into a passage only takes a few good charges to get through.  Meanwhile, the second arch is extremely difficult and requires dozens of good charges and I think it's only been broken into once out of the numerous sieges this city has seen.  At the end of all of this is that tiny little inner keep, holding the defenders within it's belly like a protective yet invulnerable stone kangaroo filled with spikes.

I'm going to look at this scene and see if I can make any realistic changes myself that people can agree with.  I can only hope that the changes to these scenes get added soon, because they currently make Strategus a whole lot more irritating than it really needs to be.

EDIT:

I also believe that this city has the smallest total area for fighting, and possibly it has the smallest amount of open ground than any other city.

It's also been said that the Mercenaries have held this city since Strat 1, and the map was made by a Merc.  I for one doubt that the flaws in this impenetrable fortress were premeditated, but I guess that's one possible theory.

P.S.  If this city is ever taken, I believe Canary should be tried for War Crimes.  Which crimes?  9k xp per ticket crimes, that's just wrong.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Keshian on June 30, 2013, 10:40:24 am
Dhirim -

Also, simplest way to fix this map - make the doorway with unbreakable door and no flags inside it.  Very similar to curaw - defenders would actually defend the front walls because its too risky to just fall back to the archways.  The final flags are behind the second archway.  Would make it on par with most of the cities out there - castles are the difficult ones while cities generate more gold usually but are less defensible - which makes sense.  That whole inner keep nonsense doesn't make sense without makig it like an actual keep used in other city maps with some breakable walls instead of just a room leading to other rooms with no other way in and no way to destroy the keep.

Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Canary on June 30, 2013, 03:01:28 pm
I think that most of the towns (many castles, too, but that's a problem for another thread), if not all of them, need to be given a good looking at once again. There's a huge disparity in map difficulty between some of them, but more importantly is something we should figure out first:

Were towns intended to be more difficult to conquer than castles, or less?


From what I've seen while playing, some towns (such as Curaw, Reyvadin), tend to have defenses which are too spread out or convoluted to defend practically. Even Dhirim's walls are poor for defense, considering the locations difficult to reach by defense, and that have no cover, that give attackers access from behind to the gatehouse and left side of the wall.

Many times it is a castle's defenses which stand better than a town's, due to being more compact or having walls that defense can reach more easily and traverse more quickly. Towns tend to devolve into a series of street fights with defenders repetitiously falling back (in-between getting spawn camped momentarily while they reset position), while castles typically stand up with defenders maintaining the walls well after most of them have been broken by catapults.

I'll also look at Dhirim, Arty, and we can compare notes sometime if you like. As much as I like the Dagger Room there, it's obviously a bit too good for defense, but I don't think it should be as easy to fight at for attackers as, say, Reyvadin. We should revisit them all, really, now that many have seen their fair share of fighting.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Relit on July 06, 2013, 03:16:53 am
The city of Halmar has a issue with its walls, they are unable to be broken completely.

Edit: Also some of the flags are placed in... odd places. Like hay-bales or at the end of a dead end on a random staircase.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Fips on July 12, 2013, 09:13:55 pm
Rivacheg has flags inside walls.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: njames89 on December 21, 2017, 03:23:50 pm
Does anyone have access to the original images of the cities still? Seems a lot of them have gone down would be good to have.
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: Viscount on December 29, 2017, 06:23:08 am
Well you can make new images by just finding the scene the cites in.
from the scene editor
Title: Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
Post by: njames89 on December 29, 2017, 06:23:30 pm
I may do that. I have a couple of them taken from strategus battles I've been in. Durquba, curaw,  halmar. But maybe I'll use the scene editor and take them all one of these days.